1917 réponses à ce sujet

[Grimwick]

The Angry One wrote...

The relays start to explode in control because of sloppy editing. Really, I've seen fan edits that do a better job of implying the relays survive.

Were they meant to survive?

I honestly did not know that...

[XqctaX]

no just no. that makes no sence at all.

[SackofCat]

Control ending is a bit tricky. If the mass relays were untouched, why would the Normandy crash in any case? If they were damaged or changed in some way, that might have affected how long it took to rebuild them. Since this interpretation does not specify when the Normandy crashes, it may mean that reconstruction of the relays, and the Normandy's ultimate crash, happened sooner than it would have in the Destroy or Synthesis endings.

Such a scenario would imply some unnecessary omission of important details on Bioware's part.

Seival,
Who do you think built the receiving relay and did they coordinate and communicate with the people that built/repaired the transmitting relay?

Are you implying that the unmanned flights (or previous manned flights) were successful but something was different or went wrong with the Normandy's flight?

Do you think the Normandy is the first manned test of the new relay? It would seem like an unnecessary risk considering that the Normandy is not specially suited for a scientific test.

Considering the importance of getting this test right, don't you think it would be logical to build a ship with every and only necessary specifications (components, capabilities, design) in order to insure the best results? I think it is difficult to explain why the Normandy and it's crew were performing this test unless the writers meant for it to be symbolic.
------
Evacuating the ship may not be prudent in a distant and/or unknown world unless the had a portable QEC and could somehow determine their relative location.

(surviving) ME2 squadmates could have volunteered and been accepted or denied. We don't even see all of the (potentially) surviving ME3 squadmates emerge. Perhaps improbable but not impossible.

[iorveth1271]

No. And I'm not even gonna say why I think this is complete and utter garbage because other people explained it on page 1 already.

[Seival]

SackofCat wrote...

Control ending is a bit tricky. If the mass relays were untouched, why would the Normandy crash in any case? If they were damaged or changed in some way, that might have affected how long it took to rebuild them. Since this interpretation does not specify when the Normandy crashes, it may mean that reconstruction of the relays, and the Normandy's ultimate crash, happened sooner than it would have in the Destroy or Synthesis endings.

Such a scenario would imply some unnecessary omission of important details on Bioware's part.

Seival,
(1) Who do you think built the receiving relay and did they coordinate and communicate with the people that built/repaired the transmitting relay?

(2) Are you implying that the unmanned flights (or previous manned flights) were successful but something was different or went wrong with the Normandy's flight?

(3) Do you think the Normandy is the first manned test of the new relay? It would seem like an unnecessary risk considering that the Normandy is not specially suited for a scientific test.

(4) Considering the importance of getting this test right, don't you think it would be logical to build a ship with every and only necessary specifications (components, capabilities, design) in order to insure the best results? I think it is difficult to explain why the Normandy and it's crew were performing this test unless the writers meant for it to be symbolic.
------
Evacuating the ship may not be prudent in a distant and/or unknown world unless the had a portable QEC and could somehow determine their relative location.

(surviving) ME2 squadmates could have volunteered and been accepted or denied. We don't even see all of the (potentially) surviving ME3 squadmates emerge. Perhaps improbable but not impossible.

(1) Interstellar communications remained intact after the end of the war, because the communications don't depend on the Mass Relay Network. Construction teams in different systems can coordinate their actions easily.

(2) I think it was more like that they managed to perform a lot of successful unmanned flights, and then tried the first fully-staffed one. With the Normandy and its usual crew. That's how they found out that relay recalibration was not as easy as they initially thought.

(3) I believe that the ending it to show some great achievements, but not some minor, secondary or cowardy deeds. I think that Normandy and its crew were suited enough. They might even take some additional equipment and scientists aboard.

(4) Such test-ship will have its own special profile. Tests on such ship will be just one of the tests required. And it still needs experienced crew for full-staffed tests. Using the Normandy and its crew for full-staffed tests makes more sense.

[The Angry One]

Seival wrote...

(1) Interstellar communications remained intact after the end of the war, because the communications don't depend on the Mass Relay Network. Construction teams in different systems can coordinate their actions easily.

Only if they have QEC pairs already installed, which are a) hideously expensive, inflexible and c) rare.
Also, reconstruction requires more than just communication.

(2) I think it was more like that they managed to perform a lot of successful unmanned flights, and then tried the first fully-staffed one. With the Normandy and its usual crew. That's how they found out that relay recalibration was not as easy as they initially thought.

Why would they use the usual crew?

(3) I believe that the ending it to show some great achievements, but not some minor, secondary or cowardy deeds. I think that Normandy and its crew were suited enough. They might even take some additional equipment and scientists aboard.

The Normandy is a stealth ship, that is it's entire purpose and the core of it's design.
You do not use an expensive and likely now irreplacable stealth ship as a pathfinder for a newly built FTL system when you can use any old ship.

(4) Such test-ship will have its own special profile. Tests on such ship will be just one of the tests required. And it still needs experienced crew for full-staffed tests. Using the Normandy and its crew for full-staffed tests makes more sense.

Why do they need: Javik, James, Liara, Kaidan/Ashley, Garrus, Tali?

The only one you could possibly make an argument for is Tali, being an engineer, and even she being also an Admiral has a responsibility to stay with the flotilla that Shepard stranded.

Modifié par The Angry One, 10 juin 2012 - 09:53 .

[MegaSovereign]

The different colored explosions confirm that the Normandy escape scene happens right after the Crucible fires.

[Star fury]

Cool theory.

[Seival]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The different colored explosions confirm that the Normandy escape scene happens right after the Crucible fires.

Not really. As I already said, that might be some long-term post-effect of the Cucible's explosion.

Also, relays have differently colored effects even in ME2 (Omega-4 Relay has red effects).

[MegaSovereign]

The scene never even implies that.

Besides, what's the narrative purpose of destroying the relays if they're going to be rebuilt shortly after?

[Peranor]

This... thread... I wish you could see it like I do. It's so... perfect...

[MegaSovereign]

The number of people walking out of the Normandy is dependent on your EMS.

EMS is tied to how successfully built/escorted the Crucible was.

Don't you see the connection? That colored explosion has to be from the Crucible. The lower the EMS, the more destructive that explosion is.

[Seival]

The Angry One wrote...

Seival wrote...

(1) Interstellar communications remained intact after the end of the war, because the communications don't depend on the Mass Relay Network. Construction teams in different systems can coordinate their actions easily.

Only if they have QEC pairs already installed, which are a) hideously expensive, inflexible and c) rare.
Also, reconstruction requires more than just communication.

(2) I think it was more like that they managed to perform a lot of successful unmanned flights, and then tried the first fully-staffed one. With the Normandy and its usual crew. That's how they found out that relay recalibration was not as easy as they initially thought.

Why would they use the usual crew?

(3) I believe that the ending it to show some great achievements, but not some minor, secondary or cowardy deeds. I think that Normandy and its crew were suited enough. They might even take some additional equipment and scientists aboard.

The Normandy is a stealth ship, that is it's entire purpose and the core of it's design.
You do not use an expensive and likely now irreplacable stealth ship as a pathfinder for a newly built FTL system when you can use any old ship.

(4) Such test-ship will have its own special profile. Tests on such ship will be just one of the tests required. And it still needs experienced crew for full-staffed tests. Using the Normandy and its crew for full-staffed tests makes more sense.

Why do they need: Javik, James, Liara, Kaidan/Ashley, Garrus, Tali?

The only one you could possibly make an argument for is Tali, being an engineer, and even she being also an Admiral has a responsibility to stay with the flotilla that Shepard stranded.

(1) QEC pairs are the best for interstellar communications, and I'm sure all major homeworlds have a lot of them. Besides, QEC pairs are not the only way for interstellar communications.

(2) Because the crew is very skilled, and ready for any extremal situations more then anyone else. And as I said, I'm sure they will volunteer.

(3) Normandy is not just a stealth ship. It also very survivable. So it will be safer for the full-staffed test-flights.

(4) All mentioned people are skilled members of the crew and used to work as one team very effectively.

Modifié par Seival, 10 juin 2012 - 10:45 .

[TheCrazyHobo]

And they say the IT people are grasping for straws........

[Xzira]

I only want one thing... An explanation of the epilogue as it coincides with your theory. If they are just running the regular crew... you have... do you even have human pairs to make babies with? Either way, in this horrible narrative, that planet gets populated and at least hundreds of years later they are telling tales of 'The Shepard' and how they don't have space travel yet but they will someday.

So. If this was a test flight that went wrong for them, you have to assume that the people get alarmed when their crew full of heroes and amazing technology goes missing. One would assume they'd try the jump again, contact (assuming they have coms) someone on the other side and have them start searching, or spacecraft of some sort would come into contact with that planet. In hundreds of years... no one single space capable ship gets near that planet to recognize life upon it. That scene alone convinced me that the relays aren't being rebuilt in the Normandy crew's lifetime, or their children's lifetime, and so on.

If you can, logically and completely (leaving me without questions), explain that to me, I will jump on board the test flight ship with you. As it stands... none of what you say makes logical nonspace magic sense, so I doubt your ideas for this will either.

[Seival]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The scene never even implies that.

Besides, what's the narrative purpose of destroying the relays if they're going to be rebuilt shortly after?

The scene should (and I'm sure will) be extended and explained.

I think that narrative purpose of destroying the relays was to show that any kind of victory will not come cheap. Even through each ending already has it's own cost. And even through all losses prior to the dialogue with the Catalist.

...I'm sure BioWare don't want to destroy Mass Relays forever.

[Seival]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The number of people walking out of the Normandy is dependent on your EMS.

EMS is tied to how successfully built/escorted the Crucible was.

Don't you see the connection? That colored explosion has to be from the Crucible. The lower the EMS, the more destructive that explosion is.

That doesn't disprove huge time difference possibility.

[Peranor]

Seival wrote...


...I'm sure BioWare don't want to destroy Mass Relays forever.

I think they do. Or at least did.
Seems like they are backpedaling on some decisions lately.

Modifié par anorling, 10 juin 2012 - 11:00 .

[Lwyn]

Seival wrote...

(4) All mentioned people are skilled members of the crew and used to work as one team very effectively.

Of the mentioned people James, Javik, Garrus and Kaidan/Ashley are good at killing stuff. Liara is an archaelogist specialized in Prothean studies.
Are you telling me they need to do some serious killing mid-FTL? If not, what the hell are they doing there?

[M Hedonist]

Seival wrote...

...I'm sure BioWare don't want to destroy Mass Relays forever.

Why not?
Maybe they'll have people actually search for alternatives. Like more efficient FTL drives.
I recall some Bioware dev hinting that the Mass Relays could only be rebuilt in the Control ending. Could've been Jessica Merizan, though.
Another one of the big pile of baseless assumptions.

[M Hedonist]

You know what, I've been rambling for the last dozen or so posts about how your theory creates more plot holes than it fixes plot holes and you've never responded so far.
I think I'm going back to quoting Sheogorath.

[Grimwick]

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The scene never even implies that.

Besides, what's the narrative purpose of destroying the relays if they're going to be rebuilt shortly after?

The scene should (and I'm sure will) be extended and explained.

I think that narrative purpose of destroying the relays was to show that any kind of victory will not come cheap. Even through each ending already has it's own cost. And even through all losses prior to the dialogue with the Catalist.

...I'm sure BioWare don't want to destroy Mass Relays forever.

That's a pointlessly contrived reason for destroying the relays then.

[Aurica]

Grimwick wrote...
Honestly. No.

The scene takes place during the time in which all the mass relays are exploding. The music is still playing and absolutely no indication was given that this is an epilogue scene.

Furthermore, the scene depicts Joker as scared and frightened - that would not be the case in an organised 'crash-test'. Also, why is a crash-test necessary at all?

I thought BW ending is nonsensical but the OP's theory is even more nonsensical

[Seival]

Xzira wrote...

I only want one thing... An explanation of the epilogue as it coincides with your theory. If they are just running the regular crew... you have... do you even have human pairs to make babies with? Either way, in this horrible narrative, that planet gets populated and at least hundreds of years later they are telling tales of 'The Shepard' and how they don't have space travel yet but they will someday.

So. If this was a test flight that went wrong for them, you have to assume that the people get alarmed when their crew full of heroes and amazing technology goes missing. One would assume they'd try the jump again, contact (assuming they have coms) someone on the other side and have them start searching, or spacecraft of some sort would come into contact with that planet. In hundreds of years... no one single space capable ship gets near that planet to recognize life upon it. That scene alone convinced me that the relays aren't being rebuilt in the Normandy crew's lifetime, or their children's lifetime, and so on.

If you can, logically and completely (leaving me without questions), explain that to me, I will jump on board the test flight ship with you. As it stands... none of what you say makes logical nonspace magic sense, so I doubt your ideas for this will either.

Jump is possible only between two working relays. Which means, people reconstructed/reactivated relays on both sides. Which means the Normandy and its crew will not be "lost forever". There was enough resources and men to reconstruct/reactivate the relay on the other side of the jump. So they will provide local help. Normandy and its crew will be saved.

Modifié par Seival, 10 juin 2012 - 11:11 .

[M Hedonist]

Seival wrote...

I think that narrative purpose of destroying the relays was to show that any kind of victory will not come cheap. Even through each ending already has it's own cost. And even through all losses prior to the dialogue with the Catalist.

But you're saying the Normandy crash scene is supposed to show that the sacrifices can be undone. What would be the point of showing sacrifices if they're gonna show seconds later that those sacrifices are pointless in the long run?
You literally have no idea about narrative and plot structure. Even an amateur can see the flaws presented in this narrative you're making the ending sequence out to be. It's embarrasing, just like whenever you go on about how great DEMs are. Nobody with any grasp on literature and writing shares that kind of opinion because it's common knowledge that DEMs are mostly terrible plot devices and rightly so.

Edit: Before I get corrected on what I'm saying, I know DEMs can work in certain circumstances and certain types of works. Mass Effect isn't that type of work.

Modifié par Sauruz, 10 juin 2012 - 11:15 .