29 réponses à ce sujet

[jfb3neo]

I have noticed during many parts of the game some characters just aren't happy with your decisions. I am currently in Redcliffe and decided to take Sten. His approval dropped -10 when I said I would help out with the battle. Alistair approved, but the difference was not nearly as drastic as that of Sten's. I decided to use a previous save of when I first entered the town. I try to save as frequently as possible. I went back to camp, and brought back Shale instead, who didn't seem to mind.

A similar situation would be when I kill the bartender in the town's tavern to raise morale. Leliana wasn't too pleased. I haven't tried yet, but couldn't I just leave and come back with a different party member who won't mind me killing mean bartenders?

It feels like cheating, but I just replay the scenerio with a different party. Is this wrong, or will this hurt my game in the long-run?

[Creature 1]

Doesn't matter in the slightest. I swap my party members all the time. They all gain equal experience even if they're not with you, and with gifts you can easily raise approval of members that you've rarely traveled with.

[Bomfy]

In time you will have a pretty good idea as to whom likes what. Morrigan and Sten aren't to overly happy with slowing the cause and being helpful.

Leliana isn't a huge fan of not giving people a second chance.

I went back to a previous save when I got myself into a corner with meeting Wynne with Morrigan. I hit the wrong key and boom, things went the wrong direction. Remember read the chat options twice when it's 5 in the morning.

The only damage it could cause is you might miss out on some companion chatter whilst walking about.  But with the swapping you will probably get a much better variety.

Modifié par Bomfy, 12 décembre 2009 - 01:48 .

[kormesios]

Micromanaging party members when you *know* their response (especially reloading) feels like cheating to me. I think it's reasonable to make in-character guesses ahead of time, though--so after Morrigan makes her personality plain, if you decide not to take her along on the "help the chantry quests" that seems fair. Either way, it doesn't hurt your gameplay.



But in practice, it doesn't matter much.



First, there are enough gifts to get most approval levels quite high, assuming you get along with the NPC at all.



Second, outside Redcliffe, there's not many areas that are interesting in terms of plot and have "hot swappable" parties, so you'll probably decide it's not worth the hiking.



Finally, I think Redcliffe really has the most dramatic & unexpected approval swings from straight plot decisions. I was a little disappointed there wasn't much after that.

[Faerell Gustani]

Definitely do it. I do it not necessarily for approval ratings (gifts are easy enough to come by), but rather I do it for plot purposes.



With the Dwarves? Bring Oghren and Shale, you're bound to get more significant cutscenes and more relevant banter.

Similarly, at Redcliffe, Alistair has an interesting cutscene if you bring him.



So I suppose I hunt for additional dialogue and cutscenes.

[Nokturnal Lex]

kormesios wrote...

Micromanaging party members when you *know* their response (especially reloading) feels like cheating to me. I think it's reasonable to make in-character guesses ahead of time, though--so after Morrigan makes her personality plain, if you decide not to take her along on the "help the chantry quests" that seems fair. Either way, it doesn't hurt your gameplay.

But in practice, it doesn't matter much.

First, there are enough gifts to get most approval levels quite high, assuming you get along with the NPC at all.

Second, outside Redcliffe, there's not many areas that are interesting in terms of plot and have "hot swappable" parties, so you'll probably decide it's not worth the hiking.

Finally, I think Redcliffe really has the most dramatic & unexpected approval swings from straight plot decisions. I was a little disappointed there wasn't much after that.

Problems with no reloading would be that sometimes you're forced into something you don't wanna do just cause you were either trying to be nice to a companion or a certain companion didn't allow you to choose a certain dialogue option.

Examples: When morrigan wants you to kill all the mages in the tower, she doesn't really tell you that's what she means she just says that she doesn't respect them and if you side with her you're forced to kill wynne and all the rest of the mages.  Also when encountering Ruck if Zevran is in your party you'll be litterally forced to kill Ruck if you try to do anything other then trade with him. (Only 1 Dialogue option comes up. "Ok Zev, lets kill him" basically and you can't pick anything else)

[kormesios]

Nokturnal Lex wrote...
Problems with no reloading would be that sometimes you're forced into something you don't wanna do just cause you were either trying to be nice to a companion or a certain companion didn't allow you to choose a certain dialogue option.

Examples: When morrigan wants you to kill all the mages in the tower, she doesn't really tell you that's what she means she just says that she doesn't respect them and if you side with her you're forced to kill wynne and all the rest of the mages.  Also when encountering Ruck if Zevran is in your party you'll be litterally forced to kill Ruck if you try to do anything other then trade with him. (Only 1 Dialogue option comes up. "Ok Zev, lets kill him" basically and you can't pick anything else)

I'm absolutely willing to reload if I've made a decision that I didn't understand due to what I think is unclear writing.  I don't think this came up for me in DA at all, but it has in other games.

I can't say I got stuck in the ones you mentioned.  I think I knew what Morrigan was talking about pretty clearly, or at least clearly enough to not take her suggestion for a few approval points.  And I learned dialog in Dragon Age *does* force you down dead ends, so I don't start down trees that look idiotic or likely to end in murder.  (Didn't have Zev with me on Ruck, so I can't comment on that specifically.)

In general, though, I have to agree: it'd probably be stupid to play for 40 hours with weak party because you absent-mindedly killed a major companion.  The game's about fun, reload in that situation.

But setting up a "no reload" rule, even if I'm willing to break it in extremis, does serve the purpose of making me pay a lot more attention to dialog choices and role playing.  It keeps the stakes interesting while you're discussing things if you know you're stuck with the consequences.

[Cybercat999]

kormesios wrote...

Micromanaging party members when you *know* their response (especially reloading) feels like cheating to me.

Is there such thing as cheating in singleplayer game? Who are you cheating on exactly?
If you want to look at things that way, then anything but single first playthrough without reloading would be cheating. I am on my 7th - I know every line and every outcome and I pick those that suit me for whatever purpose in that game. There are no random options I might pick and not know the outcome anymore. So what am I supposed to do? Uninstal and dump the game in trash bin so not to be a "cheater"? Really...

[I Tsunayoshi I]

There is at least one dead end in regards to the endings as I was forced to watch Alistair sacrifice himself 4 times, 3 of which I wanted my mage to do the same but couldnt because of the romance between them.

[Silensfurtim]

"Hey Morrigan! Stay in camp for a while because I know you'll disapprove on my next good deed. Seeya!"

[v.lokai]

I learned after a few plays that you do not have to return to camp to swap members. You can swap when outside in Redcliff, Dalish camp, etc. Save you from running to the world map line. Play how you want and manipulate your members how you want.

[jfb3neo]

Creature 1 wrote...

Doesn't matter in the slightest. I swap my party members all the time. They all gain equal experience even if they're not with you, and with gifts you can easily raise approval of members that you've rarely traveled with.

I wanted to go back and return with Sten before the battle in Redcliffe. I haven't had chance to really use him in battle yet (I originally didn't bring him along because I knew that he would disapprove of my helping out the town), and I wanted to have him gain some experience now that my other party members are caught up to him as level 8. I didn't understand this quote from before. How could all your party members gain equal experience even if they're not with you?

Have I been playing this game wrong? I tend to bring my weaker characters (lower level) along so that they can learn and level up. I thought you gained experience by fighting, not sitting back in camp, at least that's how it's been in every other RPG, although it has been awile since I was this excitied about a new role playing game.

So my point and perhaps my question is, can I leave before the battle in Redcliffe to go and get Sten in order to have him with me in battle, see what he is like, and gain some experience with him (I also haven't used Shale yet, and I look forward to that one) or doesn't it matter (or will he just disapprove even after the decision was made)? I mean, I can't level up and increase strength and constitution and learn new tactical moves of a particular party member (in this case, Sten) if the party member just sits in camp looking good, right?

[Solwen_Polyhymnia]

I know for certain that your character does not lag behind your main characters level by more than one level even if they sit in camp all campaign (so if your main character is 24 and all of the sudden you need to use the Dog who been sitting in camp all campaign the dog have enough exp for level 23.)



. And switching characters just show they wouldn't disapprove of your action might be unnecessary. There is enough gifts and influence increasing conversations that you should be able to absorb the occasional influence lost. And having a high persuade skill sometimes can mitigate some of those hits also.



Your best bet is to pick companions that is compatible to how you plan on playing the game and sticking to them.



And in know that in most of the save Redcliff quest, I was able to switch out members in town. I am not sure if youc an do that once nightfall hits but before nightfall you shouldn't need to return to camp to change teammates.

[CID-78]

it's not cheating, cheating is if you don't follow the rulebook and you are allowed to switch companions so its not cheating. it's only meta gaming. some do it other thinks it destroy the fun. but it's your game do what you like.

[jfb3neo]

So how do most people play? I thought it was good to use all your characters in different battles. At first I thought this would give me a more rounded party. I mean, how else do you learn new tactics if you are not fighting? Someone responded earlier that your party continues to level up even if you don't use them, but do they still learn? Say I wanted a healer for instance. Unless I used her in battle (don't know why I'm assuming a healer has to be a woman, but that's how I imagine it) she will never learn to heal. I won't just look her up later in the game and find I have a new healer. Some character can become trap-makers, or poison-makers, or be better at archery or dual weapons, but if you keep using the same characters they won't be good at everything.



Maybe I'm wrong, so that is what I'm trying to find out. Is it better to use a little bit of everyone or a whole lot of certain party members?

[Cybercat999]

jfb3neo wrote...

So how do most people play? I thought it was good to use all your characters in different battles. At first I thought this would give me a more rounded party. I mean, how else do you learn new tactics if you are not fighting? Someone responded earlier that your party continues to level up even if you don't use them, but do they still learn? Say I wanted a healer for instance. Unless I used her in battle (don't know why I'm assuming a healer has to be a woman, but that's how I imagine it) she will never learn to heal. I won't just look her up later in the game and find I have a new healer. Some character can become trap-makers, or poison-makers, or be better at archery or dual weapons, but if you keep using the same characters they won't be good at everything.

Maybe I'm wrong, so that is what I'm trying to find out. Is it better to use a little bit of everyone or a whole lot of certain party members?

First let me tell you - the best healers I played with in MMOs were guys. I personally never play healer tho I am a woman, I find it boring. I play dps/CC mages and warlocks, ocasional melee brute (barb in AoC).

What do you mean by "learning"? They are AI - they dont learn things. You have tactics and you can somewhat manage their reactions that way. Or you can multitask their toons yourself.

Personally I use them all, depending on my mood or whatever I think I might need in fight. Leli is a must when I play mage since I want to open every locked chest. If I play rogue I dump her in favor of Morrigan or somebody else I find more convenient. I try to make them all complement so I never pick 2 similar spells for example, if I play pure dps mage then Morrigan has only CC duty and Wynne just healing/warding spells. Leli finishes the game as archer most of the time while Zev stays assasin/duelist rogue.
There are numerous combinations and that is what makes the game still interesting for me, after 7th playthrough. Something along the line "now lets see if Wynne can tank high dragon as arcane warrior this time".

[jfb3neo]

What I meant from learning was "cunning". As you level up your character you increase their cunning which allows them to learn new things, but what I am starting to understand is that if you do not use a character for a while and decided to use him/her later, he/she will not only be at a higher level, but you can also level up that character to the stats that you desire; at least that is what I am reading on this and other posts.



Still, I like to level up one character at a time and see how they use their new tactics. I would not want to have a bunch of new tactics at once and have to see how each one plays out. That happens when you meet a new character who joins your party, like Shale, for example. He has lots of techniques that were never used before and then you find out that only some can be used when another is first active. It's fun, but I'm still learning how to use him best, and since I only used him in one fight so far on the road while traveling, I still have a lot to learn about Shale.



Maybe some could understand what I'm trying to get across as my curiosity has changed a bit. I no longer care about switching characters just to keep their approval ratings high, as it sounds like I'll have plenty of opportunities to gain approval later via gift-giving or dialogue, but merely switching characters to keep the story fun.

[Edelwolf]

Just do what you want even if it annoys some companions. Those reactions are more interesting.

You can always make up for it later.

[Paddyjack]

If you do not choose the "auto level up" option, each time you go back to camp and take a character that leveled while sitting there, you get to manually increase his attributes, skills, talents, etc.



So you can make them like whatever you want them to be.

[SleepyBird]

Edelwolf wrote...

Just do what you want even if it annoys some companions. Those reactions are more interesting.
You can always make up for it later.

Totally true!  I had Morrigan in my party half the time just because her snarky pissiness was so fun.  And all her disapproval was easily overcome with a few symapethic questions about her mother.  And presents.

[Cybercat999]

jfb3neo wrote...

What I meant from learning was "cunning". As you level up your character you increase their cunning which allows them to learn new things, but what I am starting to understand is that if you do not use a character for a while and decided to use him/her later, he/she will not only be at a higher level, but you can also level up that character to the stats that you desire; at least that is what I am reading on this and other posts.

Still, I like to level up one character at a time and see how they use their new tactics. I would not want to have a bunch of new tactics at once and have to see how each one plays out. That happens when you meet a new character who joins your party, like Shale, for example. He has lots of techniques that were never used before and then you find out that only some can be used when another is first active. It's fun, but I'm still learning how to use him best, and since I only used him in one fight so far on the road while traveling, I still have a lot to learn about Shale.

Maybe some could understand what I'm trying to get across as my curiosity has changed a bit. I no longer care about switching characters just to keep their approval ratings high, as it sounds like I'll have plenty of opportunities to gain approval later via gift-giving or dialogue, but merely switching characters to keep the story fun.

Cunning is just one ability, needed for specific class or specific abilities. Warriors dont need single point in cunning to learn most new abilities. You can play mage without raising anything but magic as well
(tho I find mana pool without any pts in willpower annoying).

If you dont use character for a while it will level along with you nevertheless and you can assign new abilities when you feel like it.
You dont get that many things at once to get actually lost in them, all you need is one average fight to try new ones, its not such big deal tbh.

If you pick up your companions as soon as you can they dont come that much "developed" that you cant switch their abilities in whatever way you want.
The way I play is to get all of them asap, then level up on side quests as far as I can. On this playthrough I got to level 14 without doing any treaties nor Ashes quest yet, just Redcliff and side quests. It should make some later fights more interesting.

Modifié par Cybercat999, 13 décembre 2009 - 10:35 .

[jfb3neo]

Thanks for the help!

[maxernst]

CID-78 wrote...

it's not cheating, cheating is if you don't follow the rulebook and you are allowed to switch companions so its not cheating. it's only meta gaming. some do it other thinks it destroy the fun. but it's your game do what you like.

Exactly....it's meta gaming.  If you prefer to treat DA:O as a strategy game, rather than a roleplaying game, that's your choice.  Personally, I prefer to make decisions according to what I think my character would do in the circumstances.  I've been annoying the hell out of Morrigan in Redcliffe.  I also suffered a -10 approval penalty because I told her that some things were worse than death...I knew she'd hate that response, but if I didn't believe that, what the hell was I doing as a Grey Warden?  Her approval is still slightly positive though, because I've been pretty sympathetic to her life story, on the whole.

[x-president]

I kinda like to roll with the punches and play out the situation whoever is with me.  There have been times with the Desire Demons that I choce different things just to see if what I got was worth it then reloaded the game.

Overall I try to accpet the choices I make and let the game play out.

[StaticSilence]

The interesting thing is about Redcliffe Village on the eve of the attack, is if you try to leave to go to camp and switch the town gets killed off- becuase you wont get back in time. I like that- it was very slick of Bioware to lock you in the town; for me I was stuck with Morrigan and Sten and they were not liking it at all. Yes, I could have reloaded, but that felt like cheating the beauty of the moment.

But don't worry, there's plenty of gifts and other conversation to score back lovepoints. Just like in real life, sometimes your friends don't like what you do- but they like you... mostly.

Most of the game I try to play out the choices I make.  But sometimes I fall to the temptation to redo a section.  I try to keep that to a minimum.

Modifié par StaticSilence, 13 janvier 2010 - 11:10 .