764 réponses à ce sujet

[jbrand2002uk]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Tesclo wrote...
*snip*

There used to be a time when you could buy anything with the name Bioware on it and know it was going to be amazing. Now I won't even touch their products unless they score over a 9 on most review sites. The quality is gone. The creativity is gone. All that remains is EA and Peggy at customer support.

Hey, take it easy on Peggy. She does a great job.

Actually its not peggy its an automated machine designed to make your head explode by answering each of your questions with a question riddled with technobabble and doubletalk because to answer your question with an answer just isnt fun 

[brushyourteeth]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Tesclo wrote...
*snip*

There used to be a time when you could buy anything with the name Bioware on it and know it was going to be amazing. Now I won't even touch their products unless they score over a 9 on most review sites. The quality is gone. The creativity is gone. All that remains is EA and Peggy at customer support.

Hey, take it easy on Peggy. She does a great job.

Actually its not peggy its an automated machine designed to make your head explode by answering each of your questions with a question riddled with technobabble and doubletalk because to answer your question with an answer just isnt fun 

So what you're saying is.... this is Bioware's customer service department?

https://encrypted-tb...VzCxV9KIWN0wObf

[jbrand2002uk]

brushyourteeth wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Tesclo wrote...
*snip*

There used to be a time when you could buy anything with the name Bioware on it and know it was going to be amazing. Now I won't even touch their products unless they score over a 9 on most review sites. The quality is gone. The creativity is gone. All that remains is EA and Peggy at customer support.

Hey, take it easy on Peggy. She does a great job.

Actually its not peggy its an automated machine designed to make your head explode by answering each of your questions with a question riddled with technobabble and doubletalk because to answer your question with an answer just isnt fun 

So what you're saying is.... this is Bioware's customer service department?

https://encrypted-tb...VzCxV9KIWN0wObf

Yes it is and you know it lol 

[HiroVoid]

coqrouge wrote...

Isn't every game supposed to appeal to a wider audience? Developers/Publishers want to see their games sold...

Its an act of balancing a potential new audience without losing the one you already have.

[Dakota Strider]

dragonflight288 wrote...

It is a sad commentary that anyone that is in this forum would even know the names of a Little Pony ((I am assuming that is a name of a pony, before now, I had assumed it was just called My Little Pony)).

I have little sisters and I helped babysit a family friends daughter. They kind of make me watch My Little Pony with them, and my friends accuse me of being a brony because I know about the show. I just want to hit my head on the wall.

But yeah, it can be a sad commentary, but everyone is different with different circumstances. One person will know more about one thing than another based on their own merits, whether personal study, education, or world experience, so that removes the sad part of the commentary.

Roflmao!  Not at your reply dragonflight288.  But all the people jumping out in defense.  I was giving you some good natured kidding, which I thought you took quite well.  Being the father of a young daughter, I have had to watch Dora the Explorer, Smurfs, and Powderpuff Girls.  And those are just the ones I will admit to.    People around here seriously need a hobby.

[Realmzmaster]

Dakota Strider wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

It is a sad commentary that anyone that is in this forum would even know the names of a Little Pony ((I am assuming that is a name of a pony, before now, I had assumed it was just called My Little Pony)).

I have little sisters and I helped babysit a family friends daughter. They kind of make me watch My Little Pony with them, and my friends accuse me of being a brony because I know about the show. I just want to hit my head on the wall.

But yeah, it can be a sad commentary, but everyone is different with different circumstances. One person will know more about one thing than another based on their own merits, whether personal study, education, or world experience, so that removes the sad part of the commentary.

Roflmao!  Not at your reply dragonflight288.  But all the people jumping out in defense.  I was giving you some good natured kidding, which I thought you took quite well.  Being the father of a young daughter, I have had to watch Dora the Explorer, Smurfs, and Powderpuff Girls.  And those are just the ones I will admit to.    People around here seriously need a hobby.

My favorite Sesame Street character is still The Count!. People anyone who has spent anytime being around or raising children will be able to relate. When I was growing up there was the Electric Company, Schoolhouse Rock etc, Garfield Goose, Ray Rayner and Friends. 
Yes, I know the names of Thomas the Tank Engine and his friends.

So do not make Sir Top of Hat cross.

[Allan Schumacher]

These statements are not based in reality. The % of people that replay games is directly associated with how good the actual game is. As an example, I played Origins with over 20 characters and actually purchased it twice including all the dlc. Dragon Age 2? I played it once and never bought a single dlc. Mass Effect? God knows how many times. Mass Effect 3? Once (and will never touch it again).

Would you consider yourself a typical game player?

[Realmzmaster]

There is always a need to expand the audience to attract the new blood while trying to keep the old blood happy. It is a difficult balancing act and many developers do not always succeed. It involves reading the general gaming populace and your fanbase. It is not a science and sometimes you are off the mark, behind the mark or you are ahead of the curve

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 05 juin 2012 - 06:52 .

[brushyourteeth]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

These statements are not based in reality. The % of people that replay games is directly associated with how good the actual game is. As an example, I played Origins with over 20 characters and actually purchased it twice including all the dlc. Dragon Age 2? I played it once and never bought a single dlc. Mass Effect? God knows how many times. Mass Effect 3? Once (and will never touch it again).

Would you consider yourself a typical game player?

That quote wasn't mine but it actually reflects my Bioware gaming experience pretty well (though I have to say I replayed DAII multiple times, but probably half as many times as I did DA:O).

I guess what I mean to say is that while we might not be "typical gamers" or part of the majority of your customers, we're still a legitimate part of your fan base that Bioware will, eventually lose if they can't make games that are they same quality we've come to expect and love from the company. I personally won't buy a game I don't expect to love enough to replay. I'll wait till I catch the flu and rent it, finish it in a few days, and call it 6 bucks well spent.

But that being said, my preorder for DAIII is already a decided "yes" in my mind. I don't believe the company would ever set out to deliberately make a one-shot only wonder, though it's worrying to hear devs quote the stats on players who don't replay the game as if that's something to take into consideration when making the game. DAII wasn't the experience I'd hoped for after DA:O, but I still liked it very much and enjoyed myself throughout each playthrough.

[Dakota Strider]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

These statements are not based in reality. The % of people that replay games is directly associated with how good the actual game is. As an example, I played Origins with over 20 characters and actually purchased it twice including all the dlc. Dragon Age 2? I played it once and never bought a single dlc. Mass Effect? God knows how many times. Mass Effect 3? Once (and will never touch it again).

Would you consider yourself a typical game player?

Not sure what is typical.  But I have several thousand dollars worth of PC games within arm's reach of where I am at, and probably at least a thousand dollars more worth of old games stashed away in a closet.  If I enjoy a game the first time through, especially if it has more than one way of playing it, I will definitely replay it over and over.  Games that are blah, may get one or two replays.   I managed to finish DA2 twice.  Have tried a third playthrough, to do it as a mage....but it is just too repetitive.  All the lines are pretty much memorized.  Being forced to play as the writer's choice as a set character, is too restrictive.  Same reason I played ME3 once, and uninstalled it.  The ending was bad, but that was only the final straw for me.

A game that I enjoy enough to replay multiple times, I will always support financially by buying its DLC's.   Even stupid ones that I have no use for, like the Party Favors and Gags for DAO.  It did not hurt my feelings at all, that DAO stopped making DLC's.  It was the same bad combat system, with the same format where any player "choices" really all led to the same thing.

[Allan Schumacher]

That quote wasn't mine but it actually reflects my Bioware gaming experience pretty well (though I have to say I replayed DAII multiple times, but probably half as many times as I did DA:O).

I guess what I mean to say is that while we might not be "typical gamers" or part of the majority of your customers, we're still a legitimate part of your fan base that Bioware will, eventually lose if they can't make games that are they same quality we've come to expect and love from the company. I personally won't buy a game I don't expect to love enough to replay. I'll wait till I catch the flu and rent it, finish it in a few days, and call it 6 bucks well spent.

Playing with over 20 characters and purchasing the game twice is certainly an indicator that someone likes DAO, but I don't think it's a reasonably fair metric for how quality the game necessarily is.

Because someone only plays through the game once doesn't really give any information on whether or not that person found the game to be quality unless you start to examine other factors. I interpreted Tesclo's statement as a refutation that the idea that most people don't replay games is not actually the case, to which he then provided an anecdote based upon his own gaming experiences.

I don't even know that I've played any game close to 10 times. Fallout is probably the closest to it, but I'd probably guess maybe 6 times (in large part because it's a shorter game). As for other games:

BG: *didn't finish*
BG2: 2 times
KOTOR: 2 times
Vampire: Bloodlines: 3 times
Half-Life: 3 times
Half-Life 2: 2 times
Alpha Protocol: 3 times
Deus Ex: 3 times
ME1: 2 times
ME2: 1 time
ME3: 1 time
Ultima 7: 1 time
DAO: 1 time
PST: 1 time


My favourite game on that list is Planescape: Torment, and I only recall completing it once.

So for you, yeah hopefully the next BioWare game is one you'll want to replay 20 times, since that seems to be an acceptable measure of quality for you. I don't think it gives any indication on whether or not most people do or do not replay games (especially when hypothesizing about used game sales)

[thats1evildude]

I liked Dragon Age: Origins quite a bit, but I've only finished it once. I did end up replaying the last half of Awakening and Witch Hunt to tweak some things, though.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 05 juin 2012 - 07:20 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I don't even know that I've played any game close to 10 times. Fallout is probably the closest to it, but I'd probably guess maybe 6 times (in large part because it's a shorter game). As for other games:

BG: *didn't finish*
BG2: 2 times
KOTOR: 2 times
Vampire: Bloodlines: 3 times
Half-Life: 3 times
Half-Life 2: 2 times
Alpha Protocol: 3 times
Deus Ex: 3 times
ME1: 2 times
ME2: 1 time
ME3: 1 time
Ultima 7: 1 time
DAO: 1 time
PST: 1 time


My favourite game on that list is Planescape: Torment, and I only recall completing it once.

I don't think replaying the game requires you finish it.  I've played Baldur's Gate's first 5 chapters several times, and its first 3 chapters probably 20 times.  But I've never actually seen the end.

Similarly, I've only finished DAO once so far, but I've played 12 different characters through Ostagar, and 6 of those have seen at least two of the main plot quests.

Between Ultima Underworld (1992) and KotOR (2003), I finished 0 games (I later went back and finished NWN).  But I replayed many of them many times.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 05 juin 2012 - 07:22 .

[brushyourteeth]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

So for you, yeah hopefully the next BioWare game is one you'll want to replay 20 times, since that seems to be an acceptable measure of quality for you. I don't think it gives any indication on whether or not most people do or do not replay games (especially when hypothesizing about used game sales)

I see your point now.

I will say, though replaying 20 times is pushing it for me. DA:O was more like... nine. Just in the interest of honesty or whatever.

Though how anyone can say they absolutely love a game and yet never play it to completion is completely beyond me. I guess in a series like the Elder Scrolls where "completion" is a concept so abstract as to be ridiculous, it's possible. But gamemakers should always strive to make a game that's superb from beginning to end and compels the gamer to keep playing (which is what you guys are good at - so just don't ever stop based on the numbers in the "gamers don't finish games" hypothesis).

[Sylvius the Mad]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Though how anyone can say they absolutely love a game and yet never play it to completion is completely beyond me.

Because it's not the story that's important.  It's the play.

Each new character is bursting with potential.  The longer the game sustains that potential, the longer I want to play it.  DAO is a great game, but I find it gets fairly linear as you approach the end, so actually finishing it again becomes less important.

And I tend to restart games again and again before I finish them, so sometimes I just never get there.  It's not from a lack of trying.

[batlin]

I think I need to clarify what I meant by "wider audience"

Does Bioware still want Call of Duty's audience like Fernando Melo said, or are they actually going to use their classic RPG to appeal to classic RPG fans?

[jbrand2002uk]

Financially it makes sense to attempt to woo COD's audience because even if you dislike the franchise its still the best selling one around and has been for quite awhile and personally i dont see anything wrong with trying to because lets face it even though RPG's are steadily becoming more popular they still have the "Nerd" image attached to them.

In any case if we RPG's gamers start insulting the "COD Crowd" all it does is make us all look like the "entitled elitists" we are often branded as

[Allan Schumacher]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I don't think replaying the game requires you finish it.  I've played Baldur's Gate's first 5 chapters several times, and its first 3 chapters probably 20 times.  But I've never actually seen the end.

Similarly, I've only finished DAO once so far, but I've played 12 different characters through Ostagar, and 6 of those have seen at least two of the main plot quests.

Between Ultima Underworld (1992) and KotOR (2003), I finished 0 games (I later went back and finished NWN).  But I replayed many of them many times.

Well in that case, I replayed DAO and DA2 hundreds of times....

Though I understand your point, although I do think it requires some level of playtime.  Experimenting with which type of character I want at the beginning of FO1 doesn't constitute 20 different playthroughs.

Having said that, at best the numbers I gave will maybe go up 1 or 2 in some cases.  Sometimes still 0.

[Uccio]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

These statements are not based in reality. The % of people that replay games is directly associated with how good the actual game is. As an example, I played Origins with over 20 characters and actually purchased it twice including all the dlc. Dragon Age 2? I played it once and never bought a single dlc. Mass Effect? God knows how many times. Mass Effect 3? Once (and will never touch it again).

Would you consider yourself a typical game player?

I do and I have similar backround. Though I have not bought ME3 (and probably will not ever), also replayed DA2 more than once (mostly out of boredom ).

[Allan Schumacher]

Ukki wrote...
I do and I have similar backround. Though I have not bought ME3 (and probably will not ever), also replayed DA2 more than once (mostly out of boredom ).

Excellent!  Now my follow up question:  What constitutes a typical gamer? 

[brushyourteeth]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Ukki wrote...
I do and I have similar backround. Though I have not bought ME3 (and probably will not ever), also replayed DA2 more than once (mostly out of boredom ).

Excellent!  Now my follow up question:  What constitutes a typical gamer? 

A typical gamer is anyone who buys and plays games.
... meaning that the meaning is very broad and hard to define. Which I think is your point, yes?

[jbrand2002uk]

Well my take is someone who dabbles in a multitude of Genres not specializing in one

[Dakota Strider]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Ukki wrote...
I do and I have similar backround. Though I have not bought ME3 (and probably will not ever), also replayed DA2 more than once (mostly out of boredom ).

Excellent!  Now my follow up question:  What constitutes a typical gamer? 

A better question would be:  What constitutes a typical Dragon Age gamer?

Because I think a majority of them have played other Bioware fantasy rpg's, and prefer that type of genre over games that are more like action games or shooters.  There are of course many people that like other styles that play Dragon Age, but I am talking percentages of players.

[Allan Schumacher]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Excellent!  Now my follow up question:  What constitutes a typical gamer? 

A typical gamer is anyone who buys and plays games.
... meaning that the meaning is very broad and hard to define. Which I think is your point, yes?

It reminds me of elementary/jr. high "Health" class whenever they talked about "average" vs "normal."  Because you may not be close to the average, doesn't mean that anything is abnormal.

Some people will identify more as an "RPG Gamer" or as an "FPS Gamer" while some will be just "Gamer."  I'm the type that loves great games, almost regardless of genre.  So I don't replay games a whole lot simply because time spent playing one game is time spent not playing another game.  For myself, that "first playthrough" is usually the most significant, so my replays often boil down to "There's nothing good out right now.  Lets pick up this old favourite and redo that one."

Some might find this paradoxical, but my favourite games are likely no where near close to my top contenders for "most time spent in game."  Even if I exclude MP games like Counterstrike, my biggest time sinks in gaming history are typically strategy games.  I'm sure I've lost more of my life to Sid Meier than any other person in my life, simply due to the nature of his games.  But while I love them, none of them have that "impact" factor that my favourites do.

But then, I'm the type of person that, after Fallout 3 was announced, was hoping it would be a kickass game, even if it wasn't like FO1/2.  Because I like to play kickass games, I hope every game is a kickass game when it's announced.  Sadly it isn't always.... haha.

In case people are wondering, my most looked forward to titles right now are Wasteland 2 and Firaxis' XCOM.  God help me if they both succeed in providing that open ended strategy AND the dynamite narrative that I love so much lol.