930 réponses à ce sujet

[Firky]

(I'm totally not a floozy. I "accidentally" romanced Merrill because I was rushing through and the heart was where the olive branch usually was. )

Zombie LIs?

[Ryzaki]

Firky wrote...

(I'm totally not a floozy. I "accidentally" romanced Merrill because I was rushing through and the heart was where the olive branch usually was. )

Zombie LIs?

It's a trap!

(Seriously though at least you could reject them once you realized "whoops. Didn't mean that." in ME1 meanwhile...

Yup. Killed a certain male LI when I sided with the templars and yeah... I guess that was his revenge.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juin 2012 - 02:02 .

[Firky]

Hilarious!

(PS. I can forgive any bug, as long as it's hilarious.)

[Ryzaki]

Funny bugs aren't too bad. The Leliana romance bug can be pretty funny if it hits at the right time.

The Liara renedouche forced romance bug is significantly less so (since I wasn't even able to reject her after that and had to import that game with a Liara romance and them acting lovey dovey. She didn't even end the romance after I bit her head off during the lockdown scene T_T )

But yes please don't make the third DA game have the o/s LIs automatically assume you're into them just because the PC is being nice BW. Or at least provide an obvious rejection choice for their affections. Something that's preferably not being a complete douche. (It's always nice to have that as an option too though).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juin 2012 - 02:11 .

[Abispa]

iakus wrote...

I am not lying. 

I may be mistaken, but if I am, my Hawkes are either putting out some major pheremones or I have seriously buggy copy.  I never pick the heart on any character I don't intend to romance (well, maybe with Aveline, but she's clueless)

ME2 is actually a good example of what I mean. Since yes, Shepard gets three people flinging themselves at him/her.  A vision of the future, perhaps?

Okay, you're mistaken, and have repeated it several times as fact. The ONLY character you have to turn down without first activating a romances with a flirt option is Anders, and even then he only hits on a Hawke who is super friendly to him after his botched attempt to rescue Karl, killing Templars in the Chantry, and revelation that he's an abomination. If I were Anders, alone and solitary, I would have assumed male/female Hawke must REALLY like me to be so unrealistically nice given the situation.

As for not being to let him down easy, I don't think, given his state of mind in the game, that he would EVER have been let down easy.

[Abispa]

Firky wrote...

(I'm totally not a floozy. I "accidentally" romanced Merrill because I was rushing through and the heart was where the olive branch usually was. )

Zombie LIs?

Hmm. Perhaps that could have been possible if Hawke was allowed to take that blood mage necromancer alive...

[robertthebard]

jeweledleah wrote...

pokes head in. I actually though ME3 did it terribly. because you don't develop a romantic relationship. you are doing... something friendly I guess?, that you are then presented with a switch for. and then you hit - ok we're in a relationship now. ok, we're just friends. and then.. no interactions until the last scene. I honestly preferred 3 conversations and then a sex scene, to 1 conversation and then a sex scene.

I liked the way DAO did it best. i definitely liked the way DA2 did it. because while some people might have disliked the hearts, I thought it was a great compromise. as far as all bi LI? I know why bioware likes it. because they don't in fact write unique experiences. you are lucky if one or 2 sentences are different. they just write a singular romance and then copy paste it. YMMV on whether you like it or not.
people who prefer to play a single gender only probably love it since it means absolutely no missed content. me? not a fan, sorry. until such time that bioware learns how to set restrictions based on alignments, actions etc - organically (none of the "possibility of romance is tied to a single unexpected conversation option in the beginning of the game") gender restriction is the only one they can pull off reliably and therefore encourage replay-ability.

and for the love of god... create an illusion of LI hitting on a character by player giving a subtle hint. don't just have them throw themselves at a player just for being nice, especially when your only other option is being a jerk.

its actually part of what I loved about Alistair's romance in DAO. you could either be extremely forward with him thus initiating the romance? or you could just flirt very very lightly and then give him that last push (I don't think of you as just the king's son) and he would make the first move. either way is player initiated, but illusion of LI making a move is preserved.

You know, I could actually buy this if Anders ever told my fHawke that got romance ambushed about his husband, and how Zevran had killed him while he was being a pirate.  Or about his experiences with being a slave to a Tevinter magister.  Or what it was like to be Dalish, and a Blood Mage.  Hmm, must be a major flaw with this theory then.

[TJX2045]

Abispa wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

How old is Sandal anyway?

But honestly no. That would make my PC feel like a child molester.

How about Bodahn then?

Seems like a decent guy, provides for his family 

No...just...no.

Okay. There's always Orsino. The Grand Cleric. The Keeper. Or What's-his-face, the guy with the mine?

Out of all of those I would only consider Hubert (the mine guy) because he has a sexy voice.

[TJX2045]

mopotter wrote...

I don't need everyone hot for my character at the same time.

I do usually play female, because I am female, but if I have a LI option that is only available to a guy, then I'll roll play a guy for that romance option. If everyone is available, why bother. I only played female in DA:2 no reason to play a guy. 

Actually, there is.  The romances occur differently for each gender.  The romance with Kaidan in ME3 is the best example of a recent one.  If you want to see differences, then sure, do that.  But not everyone is like you where they want to play both genders because one romance isn't available to the other.  I always play a male, and never play a female usually.  I've only made ONE female warden, and that was only so that she could be Queen with Alistair.

JUST ONE.  And I still haven't made a female hawke or have any desire really to do so.  I may eventually just to see some differences or see how her voice actor does because it's nice to hear the differences in voice actors.  But that's more of a personal thing I enjoy.  Not everyone thinks that way.

It was fun, sure, but I never felt like I was her character or in her shoes because obviously I identify more with a man.  So just becuase I'm a man I shouldn't have access to everyone in a FANTASY world?

And god forbid people who say "it's unrealistc for everyone to be bi" when they talk about a fantasy game.  The reality is they aren't ok with non-realistic aspects in sexuality that occur in video games where GAMERS decide what happens, not double standards or societal "norms".

You know what, since we're talking about "realism," if everyone isn't gonna be made bi because of the realistic argument, let's only make 1 or 2 female options and 5-8 males ones since the major demographic is male gamers.

Modifié par TJX2045, 09 juin 2012 - 06:18 .

[Emzamination]

Cultist wrote...

We'll get all-bi all-approving companions once again.
BioWare have no courage to cut LGBT completely out of the game.

and here we have the heart...I hope every dragon age entry has all romances available to all genders.I shouldn't have to get a mod to romance characters like morrigan because of hatred and prejudices like the above quoted.

[ianvillan]

I have no problems at all with all LIs being availiable for both genders, and I think it should be this way for all future Bioware games.

[Jerrybnsn]

jeweledleah wrote...

 
and for the love of god... create an illusion of LI hitting on a character by player giving a subtle hint. don't just have them throw themselves at a player just for being nice, especially when your only other option is being a jerk.

In the defense of real life, that's exactly what happens to a lot of people who are just being nice to someone and the next thing you know they are interested in you.  And vice-a-versa.  Then comes the awkwardness, embarrasment, and someone's heart gets broke.

But I agree with you that not every character in a game should do this with your character, and your ideas on how it should work for the other half of your possible love interests are spot on.

[Jerrybnsn]

Maybe...just maybe....They could set it up so that your character thinks someone is throwing themselves at you like an Isabella or Anders by using euphanism (an opposite sex member to really set you up) and it turns out that they were not using euphanisms but were being literal about just doing things ("You have rust spots on your helmet and I was offering to take care of that for you. OMG! I can't believe....I got to go!") Then you get to deal with the awkwardness of the character through the rest of the game and have to deal with them falling in love with another one of your companions.

sounds good.

And to head off the complaints from people that feel it would be unfair not to romance these two (teases) set it up so that only if you play as a bad boy the girl does fall for you, or you play as the nice, homegrown girl does the boy fall for you.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 09 juin 2012 - 12:20 .

[AkiKishi]

Emzamination wrote...

Cultist wrote...

We'll get all-bi all-approving companions once again.
BioWare have no courage to cut LGBT completely out of the game.

and here we have the heart...I hope every dragon age entry has all romances available to all genders.I shouldn't have to get a mod to romance characters like morrigan because of hatred and prejudices like the above quoted.

Makes no sense does it when you had Zevren and Leliana in the same game. You can't romance Morrigan because she does not swing that way. That's who Morrigan is.

[MissOuJ]

My lord, the "get them icky gay/bi people outta my gamez/party!!1" is really strong with this one.

All characters available for everyone to romance = good. And going about how "everybody being bi isn't realistic" in a gaming forum dedicated to games which include ancient sentient machine monsters and dragons doesn't really help your cause.

Blacklash93 wrote...
1) Making LGBT companions and/or interaction with them optional. Zevran and Leliana/Fenris and Isabela (if DA2 didn't do the all bi thing the bi companions would have been them) were completely optional in every way especially compared to their romantic counterparts who were mandatory in recruitment and could not leave or be killed until near the end of the story.

First of all, nice supposition there. Why? Because Isabela is "promiscuous" and Fenris is... what? Too "broody" to be straight? Or because Anders only flirted with girls in DA:O (except, you know, Nate and my male Warden, but apparently that doesn't count). Why couldn't Merrill be the "bi option"? Because (apart from the whole blood mage thing) she's the typical, naive, innocent "good girl"? Because only straight girls are like that.

Second... You realize you sound there like the very first thing you do when you find out a fictional character in a video game is non-straight you try to find out a way to kill them/kick them out of your party/not interact with them in general? Disturbing.

Blacklash93 wrote...
2) Making LGBT companions and their conflicts removed from the main story. Arguably inverted with Merrill and Isabela, but it remains true for everyone else. Zevran, Leliana, and Fenris had nothing about them that was or became relevant to the main story. While Alistair, Morrigan, and Anders did very much so.

Because LGBT individuals's conflicts <<<<< Straight people's conflicts; got it!

Also, Anders' part of the story had nothing to do with his prefered gender - so what this really comes down to is you not wanting any prominent video game characters being LGBT. Again, disturbing.

Blacklash93 wrote...
3) Cliche or Sterotypical Personalities and Backstories.

Finally - something we can agree on. We can probably also agree that Merrill and Anders are both rather unconventional LGBT characters - but since they (for some bizarro reason you still haven't specified) qualify as "straight only" in this alternative DA2 universe of yours I can see why you would disregard them.

Having more gay NPC's is also something I agree with you, because making Thedas more LGBT friendly should include LGBT characters of all types (both non-romanceable and LI's) - but replacing LGBT party members with LGBT NPC's just so "we don't have to deal with them and their personal drama" is... just... no no no no NO!

So all in all - no. And I hope BioWare keeps making awesome games with awesome LGBT characters (who can be romanced by anyone) who absolutely rock and are awesome and hit on the PC's regardless of gender so all lil' homophobes will run screaming in circles and post to Kotaku forums how "their rights to straightness and straight-only spaces" are being grocely violated, because that's pretty much the only funny thing in this conversation at all.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 09 juin 2012 - 12:50 .

[Blacklash93]

MissOuJ wrote...

My lord, the "get them icky gay/bi people outta my gamez/party!!1" is really strong with this one.

You've read my argument completely wrong, then.

All characters available for everyone to romance = good. And going about how "everybody being bi isn't realistic" in a gaming forum dedicated to games which include ancient sentient machine monsters and dragons doesn't really help your cause.

The setting isn't realistic, but why does that mean the characters shouldn't be? A weak argument.

First of all, nice supposition there. Why? Because Isabela is "promiscuous" and Fenris is... what? Too "broody" to be straight? Or because Anders only flirted with girls in DA:O (except, you know, Nate and my male Warden, but apparently that doesn't count). Why couldn't Merrill be the "bi option"? Because (apart from the whole blood mage thing) she's the typical, naive, innocent "good girl"? Because only straight girls are like that.

No. I clarified this in a later post and it had nothing to do with stereotpes. Anders and Merrill were not concieved as bi. Isabela certainly was and Fenris makes more sense than Anders.

The point is, at the very least, if Bioware had to choose which companions would be bi if there could only be one for each gender the obvious answers would be Fenris and especially Isabela.

Second... You realize you sound there like the very first thing you do when you find out a fictional character in a video game is non-straight you try to find out a way to kill them/kick them out of your party/not interact with them in general? Disturbing.

I don't do that at all, yet common sense dictates there are gamers who would. Making them optional and easily killable/dismassable kind of panders to that and that's what I don't like. Plust it developing into a pattern is something no one wants.

Because LGBT individuals's conflicts <<<<< Straight people's conflicts; got it!

Nope. I found Leliana and Zevran much more compelling than Morrigan and Alistair. I just want LGBT characters to be more connected to the main story whereas in Origins Leliana and Zevran had nothing like Alistair's connection to the Loghain conflict or Morrigan's dark ritual.

Also, Anders' part of the story had nothing to do with his prefered gender - so what this really comes down to is you not wanting any prominent video game characters being LGBT. Again, disturbing.

wat? I'm arguing to make LGBT companions MORE prominent.

Having more gay NPC's is also something I agree with you, because making Thedas more LGBT friendly should include LGBT characters of all types (both non-romanceable and LI's) - but replacing LGBT party members with LGBT NPC's just so "we don't have to deal with them and their personal drama" is... just... no no no no NO!

Never said that.

So all in all - no. And I hope BioWare keeps making awesome games with awesome LGBT characters (who can be romanced by anyone) who absolutely rock and are awesome and hit on the PC's regardless of gender so all lil' homophobes will run screaming in circles and post to Kotaku forums how "their rights to straightness and straight-only spaces" are being grocely violated, because that's pretty much the only funny thing in this conversation at all.

Yes. Being against all companions being coincidentally bisexual in a character-driven RPG is always homophobic and demanding straight-only gaming experiences without exception.

[pmac_tk421]

My opinion is pretty much the same as the one in e OP. All bi is kinda unrealistic, so have more defined sexuality, including some bisexual romances, some gay romances and some straight romances.

[MissOuJ]

Blacklash93 wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

My lord, the "get them icky gay/bi people outta my gamez/party!!1" is really strong with this one.

You've read my argument completely wrong, then.

I was talking about the whole conversation in general - but if I read your comments wrong in this regard, I'm glad.

Blacklash93 wrote...
The setting isn't realistic, but why does that mean the characters shouldn't be? A weak argument.

Why? Also, why would 4 romanceable bi characters in a single game (with several demonstratably straight) characters be unrealistic characterisation? And why is it a given "certain" characteristics are "more/less" bi than others, hence making person A bi but not person B is "good" characterisation?

The math still is: If only Isabela and Fenris were bi love interests straight gamers would have 4 choises (2 for both female and male gamers), whereas LGBT who want to enjoy same sex romance would have only 2 options (1 for each gender) - how is that fair in any way? And I can only quess how much of a backlash there would've been if Isabela and Fenris had been exclusively gay from the start.

Blacklash93 wrote...
I don't do that at all, yet common sense dictates there are gamers who would. Making them optional and easily killable/dismassable kind of panders to that and that's what I don't like. Plust it developing into a pattern is something no one wants.

Agreed that's a pattern no one wants - and if you in your original post dictated this was a problem with the romances in stead of something BioWare should do then I truly misread your comment wrong and I'm sorry.

Blacklash93 wrote...
I just want LGBT characters to be more connected to the main story whereas in Origins Leliana and Zevran had nothing like Alistair's connection to the Loghain conflict or Morrigan's dark ritual.

Agree 100%. To be fair though, if BioWare want's to give people freedom to not recruit certain party members, hammering them all in the course of the main plot is problematic - then again making both straight love interests the most important ones in DA:O was at least equally (if not more) problematic, in my opinnion, so again, agree 100%.

Blacklash93 wrote...
Yes. Being against all companions being coincidentally bisexual in a character-driven RPG is always homophobic and demanding straight-only gaming experiences without exception.

No, but what you've proposed is pretty much a 4-2 split, which I find problematic. I don't see you including exclusively gay characters (a la Cortez) to the conversation, and since we're talking about straight/LGBT split here - and about including exclusively heterosexual characters -  there's a problem. Having all LI's being romanceable by any player is, in my opinnion, the best way to ensure all LI's are equally available to allplayers  - but then again, I'm certainly not against exclusively gay characters: Cortez is awesome, and Samantha is really cute (too bad about the romance scene), and if BW did that, I wouldn't have a problem with the straight-only LI's. But the way the situation was in ME and ME2, for example? That was not equal opportunity for all, and that it was changed for all bi in DA2? Doesn't bother me at all.

I'm really sorry about reading (most) or your comments completely wrong, though. It seems I've been hanging out in the Kotaku boards way too much for my sanity.

[wsandista]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Cultist wrote...

We'll get all-bi all-approving companions once again.
BioWare have no courage to cut LGBT completely out of the game.

and here we have the heart...I hope every dragon age entry has all romances available to all genders.I shouldn't have to get a mod to romance characters like morrigan because of hatred and prejudices like the above quoted.

Makes no sense does it when you had Zevren and Leliana in the same game. You can't romance Morrigan because she does not swing that way. That's who Morrigan is.

Of course the herat of the "all-bi is great" is that those players want to have the game world conform to their PCs so that no one dislikes their PC. The idea that having someone dislike their PCs is just too much for them to bear, so the world must be changed so everyone loves their PC. DA shoiuld include actual homosexual LIs who simply aren't interested in PCs of the opposite sex because that is just who the LI is. BTW, DA still hasn't had a homosexual LI, so I can assume that the all-bi LI camp doesn't want homosexuals to be LIs.<_<

[LolaLei]

For me personally. the only downside to all romanceable companions being bi-sexual is from a purely roleplaying point of view because if I play as a member of the opposite sex I'd be too tempted to re-romance my favorite companion rather than try out all the other romance options (especially if it's Cullen LOL!) But, I could always just watch the others on YouTube if I'm that attached to my favorite love interest, so it's not a problem.

That aside, I see no reason why the romanceable companions shouldn't all be bi-sexual, I think the real problem is that some of them weren't implimented very well in DA2. I'd also like to see exclusive dialogue for both same sex and hetrosexual relationships in order to make the romances feel special/unique to both genders.

Modifié par LolaLei, 09 juin 2012 - 03:28 .

[AkiKishi]

wsandista wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Cultist wrote...

We'll get all-bi all-approving companions once again.
BioWare have no courage to cut LGBT completely out of the game.

and here we have the heart...I hope every dragon age entry has all romances available to all genders.I shouldn't have to get a mod to romance characters like morrigan because of hatred and prejudices like the above quoted.

Makes no sense does it when you had Zevren and Leliana in the same game. You can't romance Morrigan because she does not swing that way. That's who Morrigan is.

Of course the herat of the "all-bi is great" is that those players want to have the game world conform to their PCs so that no one dislikes their PC. The idea that having someone dislike their PCs is just too much for them to bear, so the world must be changed so everyone loves their PC. DA shoiuld include actual homosexual LIs who simply aren't interested in PCs of the opposite sex because that is just who the LI is. BTW, DA still hasn't had a homosexual LI, so I can assume that the all-bi LI camp doesn't want homosexuals to be LIs.<_<

Well not long after this thread started someone was saying how they wanted to romance Alistair as a guy. And I asked "does Alistair not get a say in it" to which he replied "nope".

If I'm anti anything, it's anti the NPC characters becoming fantasy playmates just because players want it.

[Emzamination]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Cultist wrote...

We'll get all-bi all-approving companions once again.
BioWare have no courage to cut LGBT completely out of the game.

and here we have the heart...I hope every dragon age entry has all romances available to all genders.I shouldn't have to get a mod to romance characters like morrigan because of hatred and prejudices like the above quoted.

Makes no sense does it when you had Zevren and Leliana in the same game. You can't romance Morrigan because she does not swing that way. That's who Morrigan is.

Ever think that maybe my taste lie with the exotic busty sorceress and not the skinny short haired bard?.Besides leliana and zevran can be romanced by both genders giving straight wardens 4 interest and lgbt 2 so they're unfair moot examples.If I want what you have, you've no right to tell me it should be off limits in my own personal game just so you feel comfortable your not being checked out while your back is turned.

Morrigan doesn't swing that way in "your" reality but in mine, the witch is just as curious about the world of women as well as men.If you want defined sexualities in romances then there should be no bi at all, just 2 strictly gay romances and 2 strictly straight romaces to make everything fair.straight protagonist shouldn't be able to touch gay options if gays can't touch theirs.

[AkiKishi]

LolaLei wrote...
That aside, I see no reason why the romanceable companions shouldn't all be bi-sexual, I think the real problem is that some of them weren't implimented very well in DA2. I'd also like to see exclusive dialogue for both same sex and hetrosexual relationships in order to make the romances feel special/unique to both genders.

That's my other objection. Once you start splitting lines you lose character depth. I'd rather see 10 lines devoted to a characer of fixed sexuality than 5 lines devoted to the characters male/female variation.

[wsandista]

BobSmith101 wrote...

wsandista wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Cultist wrote...

We'll get all-bi all-approving companions once again.
BioWare have no courage to cut LGBT completely out of the game.

and here we have the heart...I hope every dragon age entry has all romances available to all genders.I shouldn't have to get a mod to romance characters like morrigan because of hatred and prejudices like the above quoted.

Makes no sense does it when you had Zevren and Leliana in the same game. You can't romance Morrigan because she does not swing that way. That's who Morrigan is.

Of course the herat of the "all-bi is great" is that those players want to have the game world conform to their PCs so that no one dislikes their PC. The idea that having someone dislike their PCs is just too much for them to bear, so the world must be changed so everyone loves their PC. DA shoiuld include actual homosexual LIs who simply aren't interested in PCs of the opposite sex because that is just who the LI is. BTW, DA still hasn't had a homosexual LI, so I can assume that the all-bi LI camp doesn't want homosexuals to be LIs.<_<

Well not long after this thread started someone was saying how they wanted to romance Alistair as a guy. And I asked "does Alistair not get a say in it" to which he replied "nope".

If I'm anti anything, it's anti the NPC characters becoming fantasy playmates just because players want it.

Absolutely, the characters and the world should not change to accomodate the desires of the player. I don't know why this has suddenly become controversial, in fact getting rejected by a homosexual(or heterosexual) companion could lead to some great dialogue. 

[LolaLei]

BobSmith101 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...
That aside, I see no reason why the romanceable companions shouldn't all be bi-sexual, I think the real problem is that some of them weren't implimented very well in DA2. I'd also like to see exclusive dialogue for both same sex and hetrosexual relationships in order to make the romances feel special/unique to both genders.

That's my other objection. Once you start splitting lines you lose character depth. I'd rather see 10 lines devoted to a characer of fixed sexuality than 5 lines devoted to the characters male/female variation.

See, I like the idea that the bisexual love interest would had different lines dependant on if your protagonist is male or female because it's more incentive to try romancing the said companion as a different gender, thus creating more replayability.