930 réponses à ce sujet

[joshko]

I wouldn't be opposed to this OP, but if they do it, then they should have several options. For example, 4 Straight NPCs, 4 Gay, and 4 Bi (Just an example). This gives the player several options with in their sexual orientation to pick from.

Also, I think an LI doesn't HAVE to be a party member, maybe a non party member main character who you can come home to? Or who you can rescue?

Just because the character is not in your party doesn't mean that the character can't be involved in the story and get plenty of camera time.

[batlin]

I'm fine with gay companions, just not when EVERY dude starts hitting on me.

I mean, gay people only make up 8% of the population. What are the odds that in my rag-tag group of fighters that ALL the guys happen to be gay?

[Sabriana]

mousestalker wrote...

I think the next Bioware game should be Diatom Age. No LI's and no sexuality, but the PC produces new companions by fissioning at inopportune moments.

No gaming company has ever done anything similar.

And that's why you are one of my favorite internet poster, ever.

First of all, bi-sexual people don't willy-nilly bed everyone. They simply fall in love, no matter the sex of their interest. If a bi-sexual falls in love, s/he is just as much in love, and as devoted to the partner as any hetero/****** couple is. Please stop making bi-sexuals out as hopeless nymphomaniac or satyriasist.

I have no issues with NPC's being PC-sexual. It does, however appear that it needs to be implemented better. The outrage of Anders and male hetero PC was telling. The Hawke I played with just blew him off, she was more interested in Fenris anyway, and I, as the player, disliked Anders anyway. He was simpy annoying and not in a good way.

However, I do understand that returning hetero/****** characters that suddenly turn into Bi-characters might touch people as wrong. Consistency is quite important, unfortunately, only a few game devs seem to grasp it. Or they simply have to cave in to the larger concensus. Who knows.

My problem with the romances is that (except for the love of my gaming live - HotU and DAO ) the hetero fem always ends up being screwed over in the worst possible of ways

ME spoilers ahead, be warned



Thane, the best character ever (yes, better than Liara, imo) dies in worst way possible, killed by my least favorite character in any RPG: the most idiotic ninja sayan samurai ever, while Shepard twiddles her thumbs

Kaidan is boring as heck

Jacob deserves to be twisted into a knot he will never be able to get out of

If she doesn't romance the space raptor, excuse me, Garrus, she's, shyte out of luck


End ME spoilers



As far as Fenris is concerned, Hawke has to wait 3 years for him to come around? Really? Seriously? Are you completely deluted? For heaven's sake, give the hetero-fem PC a chance. Just try it. It might surprise you how that might work out.

In my personal opinion, DAO had it right, and in one of its very few shinign moments ME3 expanded on it. Make some accessible to be PC-sexual. Make some inaccesible for homosexual relationships (Alistair, Morrigan), Make some inaccssible for hetero (Cortez, Traynor).

Yeah, I know, it's a lot of work in programing and scripting. Perhaps it's too much to ask for, seeing that Bioware is seemingly abandoning the RPG niche (which, seeing how well Skyrim sold, the glorious success of CDPR, or how much money InXile raked in, is not really all that small after all). But I'm not giving up on Bioware yet. 13 years of devotion to a company is not easy to shake off.

[jbrand2002uk]

Isabella isnt actually Bi-sexual...... she's just an insatiable orgasm hunter and i like it

[DiebytheSword]

I agree that DAO had it about right.

[Sabriana]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Isabella isnt actually Bi-sexual...... she's just an insatiable orgasm hunter and i like it

Yes, she is bi-sexual. Just because she behaves like any hetero/homosexual who is not attached doesn't make her incapable of falling in love with either sex, and be monogamous. I have friends who are hetero/******/bi, who play/played the field, but quite a few of them found love. Isabela is the same as them. Play the field and get all you can, but when they fall for the one (whoever that may be), they fall just like anyone else.

[BioFan (Official)]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I was initially reserved about the idea that all the companions would be bisexual in DA2, until I realized two things:

1) I don't actually know what life is like in Thedas
2) In DA2, some are not explicitly bisexual, but rather you can only conclude that knowledge based on metagaming. Anders, for instance, doesn't make any references to the time he spent with Karl if the PC is female.

Point #2 is more about slightly changing the NPCs based upon PC sex. Now some might still think that's stupid or whatever, but I think if we're going to make romanceable NPCs available to all players regardless of PC gender, this is a good solution to it.

i'm 10000000% loving the bisexuality of all the party members, but i think more neutral conversation options would be nice. Take Fenris as an example. When you give him the book as a gift you can either:

flrt
be sarcastic and kinda rude
or
be a d***


so having neutral options is what's needed 

[Vormaerin]

I don't think that the characters, other than Isabella and maybe Anders, are actually bisexual. There is no evidence that any of the other characters are actually attracted to both genders in the same playthrough.

I don't see a problem with adjusting the NPCs slightly to suit the nature of the PC as long as the results work. The difficulty is really not with the sexual orientation of the characters but with the 'rush to romance' in teh dialogue. Because we have so many options (which is good) and relatively little time for interaction (sadly unavoidable, afaik), things move quite fast. It can make the game feel like its trending towards a harem game.

[Iakus]

joshko wrote...

I wouldn't be opposed to this OP, but if they do it, then they should have several options. For example, 4 Straight NPCs, 4 Gay, and 4 Bi (Just an example). This gives the player several options with in their sexual orientation to pick from.

Also, I think an LI doesn't HAVE to be a party member, maybe a non party member main character who you can come home to? Or who you can rescue?

Just because the character is not in your party doesn't mean that the character can't be involved in the story and get plenty of camera time.

This sounds like a pretty good idea, though 2/2/2 would probably be more manageable.  And every possible permutation of PC would have at least 2 options.

And yeah, non-party member romances could work well.  ME3 actually did it rather well with Steve and Samantha.  Having someone to come home to can be just as romantic as being part of a Battle Couple.

[Nerdage]

I still don't see why defining everyone's sexuality is a good thing, I don't see what it adds that's more worthwhile than my ability to play whatever character I want, doing whatever I want them to do.

I've seen people mention character integrity here and there, but what does that really translate to when I'm playing? Am I expected to think "Well I'm really glad that content I wanted to see is denied to me because, by chance, I picked the wrong PC gender several hours ago. Good writing, Bioware!" I'd think the important part of their character is what kind of person they are, how they act, so long as that's in order I don't see any issue character-wise.

As far as I'm concerned having all the romances open to both genders is the best way to do it; if, for whatever reason, there have to be characters who turn you down based on gender, make them the side characters, the Bellas and what have you, the ones without too much content to them.

[KingRoxas]

Blacklash93 wrote...
I think they should make characters with defined sexualities.

[SirGladiator]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to actually ask for 'less' options, to actually deny people the opportunity to romance their favorite romancable characters. If, for example, you don't want to romance Merrill as Lady Hawke, you don't have to, don't ask them to take away my option to do so. Having that extra option, two instead of just the one (Leliana) in DAO, was such a huge improvement in DA2 and made the game as a whole so much more fun. More options means more fun, less options means less fun, its as simple as that. When we can play any romance we want, everybody wins, and nobody loses. It doesn't get any better than that.

[joshko]

iakus wrote...

joshko wrote...

I wouldn't be opposed to this OP, but if they do it, then they should have several options. For example, 4 Straight NPCs, 4 Gay, and 4 Bi (Just an example). This gives the player several options with in their sexual orientation to pick from.

Also, I think an LI doesn't HAVE to be a party member, maybe a non party member main character who you can come home to? Or who you can rescue?

Just because the character is not in your party doesn't mean that the character can't be involved in the story and get plenty of camera time.

This sounds like a pretty good idea, though 2/2/2 would probably be more manageable.  And every possible permutation of PC would have at least 2 options.

And yeah, non-party member romances could work well.  ME3 actually did it rather well with Steve and Samantha.  Having someone to come home to can be just as romantic as being part of a Battle Couple.

I really wasn't all that impressed with ME3's non party LIs. I think if you do have a non party LI than this character must play a major role in the story and game. Enough so that this person (rather than another character you may not care about, yes I'm looking at you Liara), actually gets to be part of his/her lovers story.

Yeah 2/2/2 is more manegeable, but that leaves two options for each orientation. But you see I like more options! And I like to have a reason to play a game more than once.

[Vormaerin]

joshko wrote...

I really wasn't all that impressed with ME3's non party LIs. I think if you do have a non party LI than this character must play a major role in the story and game. Enough so that this person (rather than another character you may not care about, yes I'm looking at you Liara), actually gets to be part of his/her lovers story.

What more do you need for Samantha and Steve to have been doing?  There was a bit more dialogue during the quests, but not a ton.  Garrus and Liara are probably the only ones who get significantly more dialogue than the shipboard companions.

Heck, there are a lot of missions where Steve talks more than any of your companions do.

[The Elder King]

joshko wrote...



I really wasn't all that impressed with ME3's non party LIs. I think if you do have a non party LI than this character must play a major role in the story and game. Enough so that this person (rather than another character you may not care about, yes I'm looking at you Liara), actually gets to be part of his/her lovers story.

Yeah 2/2/2 is more manegeable, but that leaves two options for each orientation. But you see I like more options! And I like to have a reason to play a game more than once.

Which is the same of DA2 (a straight male could romance two females, a straight female two males, a gay male two males and a lesbian female two females) and more option than DAO in regards of the s/s sex. Plus, a person who'll make a bisexual PC could romance six person, which is an higher number in comparison of the previous games.
With 4 straight LI, 4 gay LI and 4 bisexual LI the number of companions is too high. A 2/2/2 ratio is good enough in my opinion.
I don't really care if all LI are bisexual, but in the case they'll choose otherwise, I think that 6 LI, with equal possibilities for all sexual orientation, is the best solution.

Modifié par hhh89, 05 juin 2012 - 09:35 .

[joshko]

Vormaerin wrote...

joshko wrote...

I really wasn't all that impressed with ME3's non party LIs. I think if you do have a non party LI than this character must play a major role in the story and game. Enough so that this person (rather than another character you may not care about, yes I'm looking at you Liara), actually gets to be part of his/her lovers story.

What more do you need for Samantha and Steve to have been doing?  There was a bit more dialogue during the quests, but not a ton.  Garrus and Liara are probably the only ones who get significantly more dialogue than the shipboard companions.

Heck, there are a lot of missions where Steve talks more than any of your companions do.

Samantha's romance was really nothing but a softcore lesbian porn scene. I really wasn't impressed at all.

Steves was much better and natural. But it could have been more.

I do think that LIs should be major players in the main story, especially if they are not party members.

You are the main character dealing with this big problem, and the person you love and confide in the most is never there to help you make that big desicion? Never gives his/her opinion or perspetive on a moral dilema? 
It's a Love Interest, not a One Night Stand or Sex Interest. These characters should be treated like lovers not booty calls.

[Vormaerin]

joshko wrote...

Samantha's romance was really nothing but a softcore lesbian porn scene. I really wasn't impressed at all.

Steves was much better and natural. But it could have been more.

I do think that LIs should be major players in the main story, especially if they are not party members.

You are the main character dealing with this big problem, and the person you love and confide in the most is never there to help you make that big desicion? Never gives his/her opinion or perspetive on a moral dilema? 
It's a Love Interest, not a One Night Stand or Sex Interest. These characters should be treated like lovers not booty calls.

I don't think you paid much attention to the Samantha romance if you think it was just about the silly shower scene.   That certainly felt a bit out of order.  Samantha practically had the sex scene first and the romance after, unlike every other LI.

I don't see any of the LIs taking part in any decision making or being helpful beyond shooting things (on lower difficulties anyway).   Except in their specific personal quest.

[joshko]

Vormaerin wrote...



I don't see any of the LIs taking part in any decision making or being helpful beyond shooting things (on lower difficulties anyway).   Except in their specific personal quest.

You make me sad. So be it. Come, Patsy!

[MKDAWUSS]

Personally, for DA3, I'd rather have no LIs period. In fact, they should shoot you down should you try to advance on them.

[Vormaerin]

joshko wrote...

You make me sad. So be it. Come, Patsy!

???  Not sure what that response is supposed to be.

What examples in the game are there of LIs giving meaningful feedback/advice to the player that are unique to the "team member" LIs and not part of them being the "special guest star" of that particular quest?

[joshko]

Vormaerin wrote...

joshko wrote...

You make me sad. So be it. Come, Patsy!

???  Not sure what that response is supposed to be.

What examples in the game are there of LIs giving meaningful feedback/advice to the player that are unique to the "team member" LIs and not part of them being the "special guest star" of that particular quest?

It was a little Monty Python joke.

Only example I can give is from The Witcher 2 in which Triss Marigold helps Geralt decide whether he wants keep hunting Letho, or jsut say screw it and walk away.
Granted it doesn't matter because she gets kidnapped, but the foundations are there.
Plus you really don't need an example. Nothing wrong with trying something that hasen't been done before, and I wouldn't say making LIs to be a little more important in stories is the most risky thing some devs could do.

[David Gaider]

MKDAWUSS wrote...
Personally, for DA3, I'd rather have no LIs period. In fact, they should shoot you down should you try to advance on them.

That certainly does get tempting after reading a thread like this, where one would almost come to the conclusion that the entire point of the game is to romance someone. Anyone. Everyone.

Inevitably this means that, no matter what we do, someone will be unhappy and come to the forums to declare that's not realistic/not why they play the game/not done as well as it should be/was done better in some other game... well, such is life on the Internet, I suppose.

Modifié par David Gaider, 05 juin 2012 - 11:15 .

[MKDAWUSS]

David Gaider wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...
Personally, for DA3, I'd rather have no LIs period. In fact, they should shoot you down should you try to advance on them.

That certainly does get tempting after reading a thread like this, where one would almost come to the conclusion that the entire point of the game is to romance someone. Anyone. Everyone.

Inevitably this means that, no matter what we do, someone will be unhappy and come to the forums to declare that's not realistic/not why they play the game/not done as well as it should be/was done better in some other game... well, such is life on the Internet, I suppose.

It would certainly be a new concept in gaming: I can't recall very many times where an NPC told a PC very directly that they're not interested. Typically the PC has gotten what the PC wanted in terms of romantic relationship advancement.

[TEWR]

All bi romances don't bug me anymore. For reasons and hopes I've said elsewhere:

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

*I've had time to mull it over, and I've come to the realization that having bisexual LIs doesn't bother me anymore. And I'd even enjoy it more, provided a few conditions are met (resources willing, anyway). Some of these are both suggestions and... observations that I finally noticed which helped me change my opinion:

1) Never make the entire group of companions bisexual. I was so focused on the LIs that I wasn't really looking at the party itself, I guess.
2) Make the romance paths sufficiently different for each gender. Pronoun swaps and a line of information for one gender do not fit this criteria
3) Have some NPC romances. Some like DAO's "quick flings" and maybe... just maybe... if the resources allow for it an actual romance with someone outside of the group of companions. Maybe some are straight, some are gay, and some are bi.

To add to that:

4) If a character is written as explicitly straight/gay/bi and then become a romance later on, keep them that way. Don't change them to be bisexual "just cuz".

Not that #4 has happened yet, but I wouldn't want it to.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 juin 2012 - 03:19 .

[Firky]

Maybe I was playing it wrong, but I played DA2 1.5 times before I came to the forum, or found any source of information on DA2 other than my own experience, and I honestly had no idea any/all of the companions swung both ways. I also thought you could romance Aveline because the heart was there.

And, technically, they're probably not "all bi" are they? Like, Merrill is gay, if you're a girl and you romance her. Strangely, I recall playing as male Warden in Origins first time and thought Alistair was coming onto me, from time to time. I didn't really like the way his dialogue seemed to cross over into almost-romance, because it turned out he was exclusively for the lady Wardens. (But it makes sense that it would.)

It's a tricky one though. On the one hand I had NO idea "everyone was bi" in DA2, even after a couple of playthroughs. On the other, it's hard to argue against wanting characters to be authentically themselves. On this third hand I keep for emergencies, if Alistair cracks onto the male Warden, slightly, it's probably just the price you pay for every woman everywhere being in love with him. (I'm more of a Sten gal, myself, but Alistair was pretty great.)

Modifié par Firky, 05 juin 2012 - 11:44 .