930 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

iakus wrote...
No argument there.  But then, I don't think dialogue was a very high priority in ME2.  It also had more followers than either Dragon Age game.

That is very true. And all those followers had pittances for dialogues showing that yes the more you have the less everyone gets.

Well, you know my thoughts on that.  ME3 did it better.  But a "let's be friends" option before any romance can start would be an acceptable compromise.

If we have to accept that all/all is the way of the future, than others will have to accept that not everyonee wants all the romances in their game.

You mean your "bug"? That wasn't the game working as intended. It was supposed to work that way (nobody outside Anders can force the PC to reject them) and you didn't accidently hit a heart (and before you get defensive I have accidently hit hearts before. It's easy to do if you're rushing).

I have no problems with you not wanting it. It's when people try to argue that the older romances were some pinnacle of character development and true to the NPC that I scoff.

We won't know until it's tried.  Maybe ME3 was a step in that direction.

Do I really have to quote that dev post again? ME3's "step" consisted of this: 

Male Shep (m/f LIs)
7 all of these remain in ME3. 2 of them are romance lites.

FemShep (m/F LIs)
Originally 4 this gets cut down to 2 in ME3.

Male Shep (s/s LIs)
2

FemShep (s/s LIs)
4 two of these is a romance "lite" 

I excluded Samara for obvious reasons.

If that's what you want well excuse me while I go DO NOT WANT. Not remotely not even in the least.

If it was anything it was step back down a flight of stairs back to the dark BG2 days where males got 3 LIs and females got stuck with 1 male.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 01:11 .

[wsandista]

Ryzaki wrote...

Exactly. They had a great deal more resources to work with than DA2 did and they still ended up with ridculous cutting corners to meet ends. DA2 barely could use the resources they DID have given the repetitive maps!

Do you have data on how much resources each game had?

Zots that end up wasted whenever someone doesn't romance them. So why restrict their available audience? Why not fulfill the need to have "varied sexuality" and not cut down on someone's options? What's wrong with that? 

Huh? We talking about ME3? Because there's nothing like that in ME3. Actually Shep's relationships with all the characters is pretty strictly defined if he/she's not romancing them.

No I was talking about DA2.

As for DA2 we already have the LI variations of friendship/rivalry as for not being unfeasible you do realize we'd have to LOSE something to put it in right? I'm not sure about you but I don't want to lose content to cater someone's whims on varied sexuality. No offense.

F/R is what I was talking about cutting. F/R was not implemented well.

Really? Fenris got more attention than Varric and Aveline? Really? I'm not seeing it.

And you can still get all that without having the LIs be restricted. Like that elf chick in DAO. And I disagree abou the LIs being hard to romance. They aren't hard to romance in DAO. Heck I have yet to find any game where the LIs are hard to romance outside a dating sim.

I did say almost always, I forgot to caps almost though. Anyway, I would argue NO ONE got as much attention as Varric. Every other companion got roughly the same amount of character development and attention.

Never said they were hard to romance in DAO, they should have been though. BG2 was on the right track, but missteps in that were a little too final for me.

Modifié par wsandista, 10 juin 2012 - 01:13 .

[Ryzaki]

wsandista wrote...
Do you have data on how much resources each game had?

Nope but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess the game that is cinematic has big name actors and came after the DA2 fisaco got a decent budget. I'd at least like to think that EA didn't repeat the same mistake twice.

No I was talking about DA2.

Then I'm not sure what you mean.

F/R is what I was talking about cutting. F/R was not implemented well.

While it had flaws I found it much much preferable to the "You either kiss my a** or I never talk to you." DAO suffered from.

I did say almost always, I forgot to caps almost though. Anyway, I would argue NO ONE got as much attention as Varric. Every other companion got roughly the same amount of character development and attention.

Never said they were hard to romance in DAO, they should have been though. BG2 was on the right track, but missteps in that were a little too final for me.

Exactly. The LIs didn't get some massive boost in resources. For the most part the LIs seem to get the more resources because they're the main side characters in the games. It's hard to tell if they're getting more attention due to LI status or simply due to being a primary side character.

For instance in DAO I'd argue Alistair got much more attention than Zevran. Loads more. They were both LIs but Alistair was a primary side character. Thus he got better treatement. DAO didn't have any primary side characters that *weren't* LIs. (Neither did any other BW game I can recall other than Jade Empire and DA2 most of Liara's primaryness comes from sources outside the game. It also helps that for the most part you can postpone getting her until near endgame).

BG2 Li's were terrible. I hated those LIs with a passion but I've ranted about that enough today.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 01:20 .

[LolaLei]

wsandista wrote...

LI's should be hard to romance, and if the PC does something they don't like, they should react accordingly.

Now THAT I agree with!

I definitely felt that the love interests in DA2 were too easy to woo/seduce, to the extent that they felt more like an excuse for Hawke to get laid, rather than a nice little optional addition to the story to enhance our game play experience, I feel like perhaps the friendship/rivalmance thing was partly to blame for that because some of the companion rivalmances seem really out of character. For example, I can understand someone like Isabela rivalmancing Hawke because she enjoys a little conflict in her relationships to keep things interesting, BUT for someone like Merrill who is known to be sensitive to even consider dating a Hawke who has opposed and insulted her during the course of 10 years seems odd to me, especially considering how rude Hawke can be when you pick his/her more aggressive dialogue options. Another example is Anders dating a pro-Templar Hawke, if he's as dedicated to his cause as he evidentally is, I expected him to be completely disgusted at the thought of dating anyone that agrees with the captivity of Mages.

... It almost seemed a waste to give the romanceable companions such strong beliefs if they weren't going to come into play during potential romance persuits. I had hoped that it would give us pause for thought in the way we played our game beyond just getting a telling off from your love interest for not agreeing with them lol.

Modifié par LolaLei, 10 juin 2012 - 01:20 .

[Ryzaki]

LolaLei wrote...
Now THAT I agree with!

I definitely felt that the love interests in DA2 were too easy to woo/seduce, to the extent that they felt more like an excuse for Hawke to get laid, rather than a nice little optional addition to the story to enhance our game play experience, I feel like perhaps the friendship/rivalmance thing was partly to blame for that because some of the companion rivalmances seem really out of character. For example, I can understand someone like Isabela rivalmancing Hawke because she enjoys a little conflict in her relationships to keep things interesting, BUT for someone like Merrill who is known to be sensitive to even consider dating a Hawke who has opposed and insulted her during the course of 10 years seems odd to me, especially considering how rude Hawke can be when you pick his/her more aggressive dialogue options. Another example is Anders dating a pro-Templar Hawke, if he's as dedicated to his cause as he evidentally is, I expected him to be completely disgusted at the thought of dating anyone that agrees with the captivity of Mages.

... It almost seemed a waste to give the romanceable companions such strong beliefs if they weren't going to come into play during potential romance persuits. I had hoped that it would give us pause for thought in the way we played our game beyond just getting a telling off from your love interest for not agreeing with them lol.

While there's some bits of this that are understandable the only one who felt completely jarring to me was Isabela. Mostly because she described rival Hawke as "boring" yet has the same exact lovescene as with a friendship Hawke. It's odd. 

Merrill however. Merrill's rivalrymance mostly (the way I saw it anyway) has Hawke being concerned for her safety. It's infuriating but at the same time I could see why Merrill would have feelings for someone who even if it's a bit harsh is at the end of it just trying to stop her from doing something they see as a mistake. Rival Hawke has to say that he's concerned for HER safety and that he loves her to fully romance her. If he doesn't it ends the relationship.

Anders...Anders crazy. But seriously he's probably so desperate to cling to some vestige of humanity that Hawke symbolizes to him (seeing as he falls in love with Hawke regardless given his jealous quips about Hawke's LI during his Justice quest) that while Hawke is pro-Chantry (and a rival Hawke doesn't have to be pro-templar since Hawke can not turn either him or Merrill over to the templars. Mine wasn't. Mine kept trying to get him to compromise. That didn't work too well.) it's not to such an extent as to repulse him. And I explained Fenris already somewhere...I can't be bothered looking back. He doesn't hate mages to sum it up he just dislikes magic and weak mages that succumb to the lure of demons and bloodmagic.

Though I do wish there was more moments like Anders in the fade where the LI just went "You did not just do that." and ended it with you.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 01:29 .

[wsandista]

Ryzaki wrote...


Nope but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess the game that is cinematic has big name actors and came after the DA2 fisaco got a decent budget. I'd at least like to think that EA didn't repeat the same mistake twice.

 

DA2 was cinematic as well. I would argue that cinematic and voiced PC were what caused DA2 to be fail badly, but that is off the point.

Since we don't have the budgets or costs to compare, we can't accrately deduce what is possible and what isn't.

Then I'm not sure what you mean.

Different scenes depending on F/R. 

While it had flaws I found it much much preferable to the "You either kiss my a** or I never talk to you." DAO suffered from.

It was much worse IMO. The way it was implemented they would still love you(or at least hang around) even if you routinely did things that they went against everything they believe in. 

Exactly. The LIs didn't get some massive boost in resources. For the most part the LIs seem to get the more resources because they're the main characters in the other games. It's hard to tell if they're getting more attention due to LI status or simply due to being a primary side character.

DA2's problem with analyzing that is the majority of the party were LIs.

For instance in DAO I'd argue Alistair got much more attention than Zevran. Loads more. They were both LIs but Alistair was a primary side character. Thus he got better treatement. DAO didn't have any primary side characters that *weren't* LIs. (Neither did any other BW game I can recall other than Jade Empire and DA2).

Would you say Zevran and Leliana got more attention than Sten, Oghren, or Wynne? I would, so they received more attention than a comparable companion. Alistair and Morrigan were tied quite deeply into the main plot, so they would get more attention.

BG2 Li's were terrible. I hated those LIs with a passion but I've ranted about that enough today.

I liked them, romancing a certain drow with a Paladin could be quite difficult.

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

That is very true. And all those followers had pittances for dialogues showing that yes the more you have the less everyone gets.

That was likely a factor.  And maybe combat, cinematics and celebrity VAs was a higher priority.

You mean your "bug"? That wasn't the game working as intended. It was supposed to work that way (nobody outside Anders can force the PC to reject them) and you didn't accidently hit a heart (and before you get defensive I have accidently hit hearts before. It's easy to do if you're rushing).

I have no problems with you not wanting it. It's when people try to argue that the older romances were some pinnacle of character development and true to the NPC that I scoff.

Let's just agree that what I described happening is not an ideal situation for romances in general.

Do I really have to quote that dev post again? ME3's "step" consisted of this: 

Male Shep (m/f LIs)
7 all of these remain in ME3. 2 of them are romance lites.

FemShep (m/F LIs)
Originally 4 this gets cut down to 2 in ME3.

Male Shep (s/s LIs)
2

FemShep (s/s LIs)
4 two of these is a romance "lite" 

I excluded Samara for obvious reasons.

If that's what you want well excuse me while I go DO NOT WANT. Not remotely not even in the least.

If it was anything it was step back down a flight of stairs back to the dark BG2 days where males got 3 LIs and females got stuck with 1 male.

What I meant by ME3 being a step in that direction was having two fully developed s/s romances.  Not the overall romance handling.   Even with all the other imported romances, resources were found fro two s/s romances

Modifié par iakus, 10 juin 2012 - 01:32 .

[Ryzaki]

wsandista wrote...
DA2 was cinematic as well. I would argue that cinematic and voiced PC were what caused DA2 to be fail badly, but that is off the point.

Since we don't have the budgets or costs to compare, we can't accrately deduce what is possible and what isn't.

So you're gonna ignore the dev post then? From someone who actually WOULD know this? Kay then. I guess this discussion is over.

Different scenes depending on F/R.

Love scenes not friendship scenes. Only thing I saw change in friendship f/r scenes was dialogue. Admittedly I might've missed something.

It was much worse IMO. The way it was implemented they would still love you(or at least hang around) even if you routinely did things that they went against everything they believe in.

Welp I already tried to explain this to someone else. But DAO also had this problem. 

warden: *sells elves to Tevinter magister*
Zevran: *dissapproves about 20 or something*

They're still in a relationship the Warden just has to sweet talk his/her way back up with approval or throw some shines at Zevran. Just as ridculous. Heck in KOTOR my DS Fem Revan could kill EVERYONE as long as she didn't insult Carth she was good. At least Bastila had the excuse of being mentally influenced by Revan!

DA2's problem with analyzing that is the majority of the party were LIs.

True and yet Varric easily outshines every other character in the game. He's not an LI. He's a primary side character.

Would you say Zevran and Leliana got more attention than Sten, Oghren, or Wynne? I would, so they received more attention than a comparable companion. Alistair and Morrigan were tied quite deeply into the main plot, so they would get more attention.

Exactly. Plot importance gives far more resources than being an LI. Oghren, Sten, Wynne were also all optional and could be killed. (Oghren was Miranda level difficulty to kill but it could be done). If squaddies are optional of course the LIs will get more attention.

I liked them, romancing a certain drow with a Paladin could be quite difficult.

Ugh I hated her. If I played a female she was just bleh. *takes deep breathe* No ranting...no ranting.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 01:38 .

[Iakus]

LolaLei wrote...

wsandista wrote...

LI's should be hard to romance, and if the PC does something they don't like, they should react accordingly.

Now THAT I agree with!

Common ground!  

[Ryzaki]

iakus wrote...
That was likely a factor.  And maybe combat, cinematics and celebrity VAs was a higher priority.

Maybe they were. *shrugs* 

Let's just agree that what I described happening is not an ideal situation for romances in general.

I'd still say ME1 was worse. Traps to the fullest. Traps that you couldn't even escape in some scenarios. *shudders* 

What I meant by ME3 being a step in that direction was having two fully developed s/s romances.  Not the overall romance handling.   Even with all the other imported romances, resources were found fro two s/s romances

Fully developed and still in my opinion of course being severely lesser than DA2 or DAO counterparts.

Not to mention the criticism ME recieved so...yeah that has a lot more reasons for being as it is as well.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 01:37 .

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...


Merrill however. Merrill's rivalrymance mostly (the way I saw it anyway) has Hawke being concerned for her safety. It's infuriating but at the same time I could see why Merrill would have feelings for someone who even if it's a bit harsh is at the end of it just trying to stop her from doing something they see as a mistake. Rival Hawke has to say that he's concerned for HER safety and that he loves her to fully romance her. If he doesn't it ends the relationship.

And that's why that one's my favorite.

[LolaLei]

Ryzaki wrote...

LolaLei wrote...
Now THAT I agree with!

I definitely felt that the love interests in DA2 were too easy to woo/seduce, to the extent that they felt more like an excuse for Hawke to get laid, rather than a nice little optional addition to the story to enhance our game play experience, I feel like perhaps the friendship/rivalmance thing was partly to blame for that because some of the companion rivalmances seem really out of character. For example, I can understand someone like Isabela rivalmancing Hawke because she enjoys a little conflict in her relationships to keep things interesting, BUT for someone like Merrill who is known to be sensitive to even consider dating a Hawke who has opposed and insulted her during the course of 10 years seems odd to me, especially considering how rude Hawke can be when you pick his/her more aggressive dialogue options. Another example is Anders dating a pro-Templar Hawke, if he's as dedicated to his cause as he evidentally is, I expected him to be completely disgusted at the thought of dating anyone that agrees with the captivity of Mages.

... It almost seemed a waste to give the romanceable companions such strong beliefs if they weren't going to come into play during potential romance persuits. I had hoped that it would give us pause for thought in the way we played our game beyond just getting a telling off from your love interest for not agreeing with them lol.

While there's some bits of this that are understandable the only one who felt completely jarring to me was Isabela. Mostly because she described rival Hawke as "boring" yet has the same exact lovescene as with a friendship Hawke. It's odd. 

Merrill however. Merrill's rivalrymance mostly (the way I saw it anyway) has Hawke being concerned for her safety. It's infuriating but at the same time I could see why Merrill would have feelings for someone who even if it's a bit harsh is at the end of it just trying to stop her from doing something they see as a mistake. Rival Hawke has to say that he's concerned for HER safety and that he loves her to fully romance her. If he doesn't it ends the relationship.

Anders...Anders crazy. But seriously he's probably so desperate to cling to some vestige of humanity that Hawke symbolizes to him (seeing as he falls in love with Hawke regardless given his jealous quips about Hawke's LI during his Justice quest) that while Hawke is pro-Chantry (and a rival Hawke doesn't have to be pro-templar since Hawke can not turn either him or Merrill over to the templars. Mine wasn't. Mine kept trying to get him to compromise. That didn't work too well.) it's not to such an extent as to repulse him. And I explained Fenris already somewhere...I can't be bothered looking back. He doesn't hate mages to sum it up he just dislikes magic and weak mages that succumb to the lure of demons and bloodmagic.

Though I do wish there was more moments like Anders in the fade where the LI just went "You did not just do that." and ended it with you.

See, you're completely right and I totally get that what you described above is how the rivalmances are supposed to be depicted, but for me personally I felt that there just wasn't enough interaction or conversations between my character and his/her love interest to give us more insight into their feelings. I guess I wanted them to be harder to win over, especially if Hawke's beliefs don't mirror their own, going to the extreme that they'd lose interest in you if you were too different or not to their taste (which would give us more replayability in the long run.)

... That and I like a bit of drama in my romances LOL!

[Ryzaki]

Oh I understand that. I would've loved more interaction as well.

But yeah I especially adored Merrill's and Fenris' rivalrymances.

Izzy's just left me confused though I admit.

[wsandista]

Ryzaki wrote...

So you're gonna ignore the dev post then? From someone who actually WOULD know this? Kay then. I guess this discussion is over.

No, I was just pointing out that none of us knoiw what DA2 or ME3 budgets were, let alone how it was spent.

Love scenes not friendship scenes. Only thing I saw change in friendship f/r scenes was dialogue. Admittedly I might've missed something.

I was talking only about conversations, and how cutting F/R could free up zots. 

Welp I already tried to explain this to someone else. But DAO also had this problem. 

warden: *sells elves to Tevinter magister*
Zevran: *dissapproves about 20 or something*

They're still in a relationship the Warden just has to sweet talk his/her way back up with approval or throw some shines at Zevran. Just as ridculous. Heck in KOTOR my DS Fem Revan could kill EVERYONE as long as she didn't insult Carth she was good. At least Bastila had the excuse of being mentally influenced by Revan!

I have stated that it is a problem in DAO in another thread, although i used a different example.

This illustrates the problem of LIs not being able to refuse/end it with a PC who performs actions they disapprove of.

Exactly. Plot importance gives far more resources than being an LI. Oghren, Sten, Wynne were also all optional and could be killed. (Oghren was Miranda level difficulty to kill but it could be done). If squaddies are optional of course the LIs will get more attention.

But the LIs still got more attention than the non-LIs. 

Ugh I hated her. If I played a female she was just bleh. *takes deep breathe* No ranting...no ranting.

I thought she was the best LI in any game I have ever played. 

Modifié par wsandista, 10 juin 2012 - 01:46 .

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd still say ME1 was worse. Traps to the fullest. Traps that you couldn't even escape in some scenarios. *shudders* 

Well, I did say I liked the way we could deflect a Liaramance in ME3 better than how we did in ME1...

[Ryzaki]

@wsandista : *shrugs* We're going back and forth at this point restating points. I'll just have to agree to disagree.

@Iakus: really at least she had a coherent rejection though I'm pretty sure the renedouche bit was unintentional. I'd hope so...calling someone's species disgusting does not love make . Ashley's just made you sound like a stick in the mud. Why can't I say I'm not interested without being a stick in the mud? (even worse was when somehow I dragged the other into it. Why? WHY?!?) Still yes being able to continue the just friends speech was nice. At least there was no awkward "Uh...I'm not into you." conversation. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 01:52 .

[LolaLei]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh I understand that. I would've loved more interaction as well.

But yeah I especially adored Merrill's and Fenris' rivalrymances.

Izzy's just left me confused though I admit.

I would've loved to have a conversation with Anders for example, that clarified his feelings of desperately trying to cling to humanity to the extent that he was willing to rivalmance Hawke (not done quite as obviously as I just described lol but you get what I'm trying to describe.)

I think maybe two different "love/sex" scenes dependant on if you rivalmanced them or not would have been a nice little addition but that would have been double the work so it's understandable why that didn't happen.

[wsandista]

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd still say ME1 was worse. Traps to the fullest. Traps that you couldn't even escape in some scenarios. *shudders* 

Well, I did say I liked the way we could deflect a Liaramance in ME3 better than how we did in ME1...

That was one of ME3s only bright spots.

[Ryzaki]

LolaLei wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh I understand that. I would've loved more interaction as well.

But yeah I especially adored Merrill's and Fenris' rivalrymances.

Izzy's just left me confused though I admit.

I would've loved to have a conversation with Anders for example, that clarified his feelings of desperately trying to cling to humanity to the extent that he was willing to rivalmance Hawke (not done quite as obviously as I just described lol but you get what I'm trying to describe.)

I think maybe two different "love/sex" scenes dependant on if you rivalmanced them or not would have been a nice little addition but that would have been double the work so it's understandable why that didn't happen.

I don't know. I think the bit with Ella got that across pretty well but it could've been expanded upon.

Actually Fenris has two different love scenes. His rivalry/friendship have slight differences (both in dialogue and in actual animations). He seems to be the exception rather than the rule though.

[wsandista]

@Ryzaki
Can we at least agree we both have valid concerns but different priorities?

[LolaLei]

Ryzaki wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh I understand that. I would've loved more interaction as well.

But yeah I especially adored Merrill's and Fenris' rivalrymances.

Izzy's just left me confused though I admit.

I would've loved to have a conversation with Anders for example, that clarified his feelings of desperately trying to cling to humanity to the extent that he was willing to rivalmance Hawke (not done quite as obviously as I just described lol but you get what I'm trying to describe.)

I think maybe two different "love/sex" scenes dependant on if you rivalmanced them or not would have been a nice little addition but that would have been double the work so it's understandable why that didn't happen.

I don't know. I think the bit with Ella got that across pretty well but it could've been expanded upon.

Actually Fenris has two different love scenes. His rivalry/friendship have slight differences (both in dialogue and in actual animations). He seems to be the exception rather than the rule though.

He has a theme tune that plays whenever you talk to him as well LOL. To be honest I've never been able to romance or rivalmance Fenris (not for want of trying) for some reason I can never get him to stay with Hawke when he visits her estate, I think maybe it's glitched for me.

[Ryzaki]

wsandista wrote...

@Ryzaki
Can we at least agree we both have valid concerns but different priorities?

Sure. Even if I think your concern could be fixed without changing the available for both genders LIs at all.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 01:53 .

[wsandista]

Ryzaki wrote...

wsandista wrote...

@Ryzaki
Can we at least agree we both have valid concerns but different priorities?

Sure. Even if I think your concern could be fixed without changing the available for both genders LIs at all.

Good. Even though I think your concern homogenizes LIs.

BTW, what does everyone think about a homosexual villain?

[Ryzaki]

LolaLei wrote...
He has a theme tune that plays whenever you talk to him as well LOL. To be honest I've never been able to romance or rivalmance Fenris (not for want of trying) for some reason I can never get him to stay with Hawke when he visits her estate, I think maybe it's glitched for me.

Fenris is *very* picky. 

1. Make sure you don't romance ANYONE. I managed to sleep with Izzy once before him but I tried a second time and it didn't work. So to err on the side of caution keep your Hawke from knocking boots with anyone. You can flirt freely though. Just don't sleep with anyone. Flirt with him enough that he suggests sleeping together. I believe that's what triggers his romance. I'm not 100% sure though.

2. Try to get his questioning beliefs BEFORE you do a bitter pill (yes it sounds off but yes you can do this), it's best if you keep him in your party for all of act 1 or 2 and be CONSISTENT in dealings with mages/slavers (If you want to rival him be very pro mage and set every mage you can free, if you want to friend him do the reverse. Be pro slavery for rivalry and anti slavery for friendship (though this honestly isn't needed he has enough rivalry points to make up for the friendship points you get for being anti-slavery). Try to be very diplomatic in dealings with slavers (even if you're not going to let them go simply not attacking them instantly gets you rival points), do the reverse for friendship points. If you take him around in act 1 you should be able to trigger his QB very early on in Act 2. Even before you do a bitter pill.

3. If you can't trigger his QB before a bitter pill get enough friendship/rivalry points to trigger it. Encouraging his anger gives friendship, discouraging it gives rivalry, if he leaves your house after you pick the heart go back to his home and see if the QB triggers. If your F/R is high enough it should and go back to Hawke's house and the romance scene should trigger then.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 02:04 .

[Ryzaki]

wsandista wrote...
Good. Even though I think your concern homogenizes LIs.

BTW, what does everyone think about a homosexual villain?

As long as he doesn't fall into being a villian because he's gay and that being one of his "evil" traits I wouldn't mind. And no depraved bisexuals please. I've seen enough of those to last a lifetime.