930 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Heck you can be queen without even romancing Alistair. As long as he's not hostile to you the only difference the romance makes is making the persuade easier.

[robertthebard]

Ryzaki wrote...

Heck you can be queen without even romancing Alistair. As long as he's not hostile to you the only difference the romance makes is making the persuade easier.

There is that, but as you said, it does make it easier if you're already sleeping with him.  It may not be the best example, but it's the easiest one to relate to in terms of directly affecting the game.

[TJX2045]

wsandista wrote...
I roleplay more than ONE character, the straight male option was just an example. I'm sorry if you can't play as anything but one archetype but there are some of us that do, shocking as that might be.

I mentioned that I play different ways too, I just have a preference like everyone else.  I don't know why you took offense to this as if I said you only play one way.  I was just reinforcing what you mentioned.

Here is what I said:

"You believe your PC's sexuality matters in your game...so roleplay like you said, as a straight male. "

I never said "you only play one kind of character."  I said if you want to roleplay a straight male, do so.  How does that affect your playthrough as a straight male when you can simply reject someone's advances?

wsandista wrote... 
I dislike an all-bi cast because I see it as a continuing trend of transforming LIs into little more than sextoys by removing any chance they will reject the player.

Note that I said continuing trend, I thought that it was wrong how LIs would ignore PC actions that went against everything they believed in and still be romanceable, as I have stated several times. 

This is more along the lines of the new relationship system that needed revision.  I agree with you in the idea that DA2's Friendship/Rivalry was not well implemented especially with some of the character's core beliefs, but when that is polished up and fixed, then what?  Are they still sextoys once they can reject the player?  I don't see all-bi as affecting that.  I see the replacement of the old approval system with the friendship/rivalry one as the issue.

wsandista wrote...  
Herosexual is even worse, because it addition to the problem with all-bi, it changes the game world to accomodate the PC. It is like one of the siblings dying just because of Hawkes class, or IF Fenris loved mages if Hawke was one(not saying this happened). The game world should always be uniform at the beginning of the game and should only be shaped through player choices, not by player gender or class.

And I make the rebuttal that LI characters ARE UNIFORM from beginning to the end.  No matter what you do, Fenris still hates mages.  No matter what you do, Anders does the same thing.  No matter what you do, Merrill will still try to accomplish her goal, with or without you.  No matter what, Isabela always takes the artifact and gets pissed when you try to tell her to give it back.

The world was not made to accomodate the PC.  The LI's are made so that players can enjoy romancing a character they identify with or particularly enjoy more than the rest.  Sure I prefer Carver more than Bethany because he was a more interesting character storywise, but does that mean that I'm going to stop playing anything other than mage because I'll get stuck with Bethany instead? No.

Also, like I said earlier, the PC's class =/= the PC's sexuality.

wsandista wrote... 
A gay character would be intrested in different people than a straight one. That is the difference between them. Would Cortez be the same character if he was willing to bang a female Shepard?

Yes, he would.  The same reason that Kaidan is still the same person but shows affection in a different way.  He's still the same personality and the same person you have known over the years.  The only difference is who your PC is.  I think the issue you may have is something I've stated before: "the typical society thought process that all straight people must act this way or all LGBT people must act this way."

I can tell you now there are plenty people you would think are one sexuality but are the complete opposite.  It's society's association of little nuances and habits that cause stereotypes with people of one sexuality or another.

And Anders is a good example of this.  A stereotype is that if he was straight he would be interested in dogs, not so overly obsessed with his cat nor call it Ser Pouncealot.  I heard no one complaining about his character then especially since he's still just as sarcastic and smart alecky in DA2, but more gloom and doom because he let a spirit use his body as a host.  It would've been the same if he was straight.  The whole thing about "their character would be different if they were strictly this or that" is pure conjecture based on years of the media stereotyping each sexuality.

EDIT:

wsandista wrote...  
His prefernce would. I haven't run my fem Shep through ME3(doubt I will ME3 was too bad to replay), but someone told me it was like the Traynor sitution with him where he says he isn't interested.

So Cortez saying "I'm not into girls" or Traynor saying "I'm not into men" establishes their personality?  That's just their attitude towards certain people.

For example, if a straight guy tells a gay guy "I'm not into men," does that suddenly change who he was before he was hit on?  That's the vibe I'm getting from this.

Overall the whole idea that sexuality restrictions would make the characters "more in-depth" is subjective.  There are some characters who are still ridiculously shallow.  Look at Allers in ME3.  She's bi, but 10x more shallow than Zevran or Leliana.

Does someone being bisexual make them shallow?

wsandista wrote...
They shouldn't add choices simply to accommodate certain PCs. They should have choices that match and support the story, not just provide fanservice.

 
I haven't heard anyone complaining about Tali or Garrus romances being added in ME2 and ME3 because the fans wanted to romance them.  That was all fanservice too.  Is it a problem when romances are added for the fans who love their game and support them and pay for the product?

Let me also add that your first comment works both ways.  "They shouldn't take away choices simply to accomodate certain PCs," which is what the non-all-bi method does.

Modifié par TJX2045, 10 juin 2012 - 06:22 .

[Abispa]

robertthebard wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Heck you can be queen without even romancing Alistair. As long as he's not hostile to you the only difference the romance makes is making the persuade easier.

There is that, but as you said, it does make it easier if you're already sleeping with him.  It may not be the best example, but it's the easiest one to relate to in terms of directly affecting the game.

"There is no queen but Serendipity." -- "Honeybadger" Hawke.

[robertthebard]

Abispa wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Heck you can be queen without even romancing Alistair. As long as he's not hostile to you the only difference the romance makes is making the persuade easier.

There is that, but as you said, it does make it easier if you're already sleeping with him.  It may not be the best example, but it's the easiest one to relate to in terms of directly affecting the game.

"There is no queen but Serendipity." -- "Honeybadger" Hawke.

NOOOOOoooooooooo!  Well, maybe if we gag her...

[Abispa]

robertthebard wrote...

Abispa wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Heck you can be queen without even romancing Alistair. As long as he's not hostile to you the only difference the romance makes is making the persuade easier.

There is that, but as you said, it does make it easier if you're already sleeping with him.  It may not be the best example, but it's the easiest one to relate to in terms of directly affecting the game.

"There is no queen but Serendipity." -- "Honeybadger" Hawke.

NOOOOOoooooooooo!  Well, maybe if we gag her...

Nah, not into gagging. Handcuffs, however...

:innocent:

[Ryzaki]

Gagging's good. Gagging, blindfolding and handcuffing. Force them to rely on their hearing and sense of...feeling? touch? Whatever. Very sexy.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 07:01 .

[Abispa]

Ryzaki wrote...

Gagging's good. Gagging, blindfolding and handcuffing. Force them to rely on their hearing and sense of...feeling? touch? Whatever. Very sexy.

Maybe with an upgraded version of Kinect this could be fertile grounds for an exciting DLC, baby. Single player sounds kind of creepy, but after reading so many posts on the BSN, I can't help but think that a lot of the people I'd be playing with are a bunch of sick freaks.

:innocent:

[Ryzaki]

Psh you're just as sick as the rest of us hun.

[LolaLei]

Abispa wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Heck you can be queen without even romancing Alistair. As long as he's not hostile to you the only difference the romance makes is making the persuade easier.

There is that, but as you said, it does make it easier if you're already sleeping with him.  It may not be the best example, but it's the easiest one to relate to in terms of directly affecting the game.

"There is no queen but Serendipity." -- "Honeybadger" Hawke.

Serendipity, she should totally be a companion in DA3!

[Cutlasskiwi]

wsandista wrote...

Herosexual is even worse, because it addition to the problem with all-bi, it changes the game world to accomodate the PC. It is like one of the siblings dying just because of Hawkes class, or IF Fenris loved mages if Hawke was one(not saying this happened). The game world should always be uniform at the beginning of the game and should only be shaped through player choices, not by player gender or class.
 

Do you have any examples from DA2 when this happened with a LI? You listed the Fenris as an example of something that would be bad (which it would be), but not a concrete example from the game.

I only skimmed the last pages so I apologies if you have answered this already.

[Deathbringer898]

You could always make sexual orientation part of the character creation.

[Abispa]

Deathbringer898 wrote...

You could always make sexual orientation part of the character creation.

That would only be necessary for players too stupid to realize that they can be straight, gay, or bisexual heroes by romancing or turning down LIs based on gender. You may as well say you want an "action" mode for DA3, similar to ME3, where the game picks your dialog for you. If so, there's your "gay toggle."

[Ryzaki]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

If I even get a whiff of "action mode" near DA3 I'm bailing. I was willing to give it a chance in ME3 (I assumed it wouldn't effect the amount of choices we got and such) and we all know how turned out.

[Deathbringer898]

It just appears that the pc is put in the game as being bisexual from the way companions react to you. You choose who you want to romance.

[Deathbringer898]

Also Im not asking for an action mode.

[Abispa]

Deathbringer898 wrote...

It just appears that the pc is put in the game as being bisexual from the way companions react to you. You choose who you want to romance.

It is perfectly realistic for straight guy to hit on a pretty lesbian. It would be perfectly realistic for a gay man to hit on an attractive straight man, so long as he doesn't live in a homophobic society (like Thedas isn't). It shouldn't be a problem so long as Bioware gives the player the option to reject his advances. This applies to both genders and all persuasions.

Another thing I liked about DA2 is that Hawke was able to hit on just about every party member and a lot of civilians, and get shot down. There was NEVER been a case in DA2 where EVERYBODY is "bi." Just the LIs. Whether or not Varric is dwarf-centric, straight or gay is meaningless, he doesn't dig Hawke. No further explanation is necessary.

Modifié par Abispa, 10 juin 2012 - 08:52 .

[Deathbringer898]

I just think it would solve some problems if you could chose character orientatation thus making not all LIs bi. Obviously some LIs are bi anyway such as Isabela.

Modifié par Deathbringer898, 10 juin 2012 - 09:09 .

[Lasien]

Abispa wrote...

Deathbringer898 wrote...

It just appears that the pc is put in the game as being bisexual from the way companions react to you. You choose who you want to romance.

It is perfectly realistic for straight guy to hit on a pretty lesbian. It would be perfectly realistic for a gay man to hit on an attractive straight man, so long as he doesn't live in a homophobic society (like Thedas isn't). It shouldn't be a problem so long as Bioware gives the player the option to reject his advances. This applies to both genders and all persuasions.

Another thing I liked about DA2 is that Hawke was able to hit on just about every party member and a lot of civilians, and get shot down. There was NEVER been a case in DA2 where EVERYBODY is "bi." Just the LIs. Whether or not Varric is dwarf-centric, straight or gay is meaningless, he doesn't dig Hawke. No further explanation is necessary.

I know this is perfectly reasonable, but my issue was more with the fact that turning them down got you rivalry points. I can see getting rivalry points if you have flirted back before, but if you turn them down the first time, there should really be an option to turn them down without being an ass.

[Ryzaki]

There's no them. There's only Anders and it's perfectly in character for him to react like that. But if you want to avoid that avoid being diplomatic in the first conversation with him. (Or agressive. Just be snarky).

Only time that happens otherwise is if you pick a heart and lead them on first. In which case you deserve rivalry points.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 09:35 .

[Lasien]

Ryzaki wrote...

There's no them. There's only Anders and it's perfectly in character for him to react like that. But if you want to avoid that avoid being diplomatic in the first conversation with him. (Or agressive. Just be snarky).

Only time that happens otherwise is if you pick a heart and lead them on first. In which case you deserve rivalry points.

What if I'm playing a non-snarky character? Aggressive I can see, but some of the choices I was given in-game (for more than just the romances) were very much "be an ass or a pansy"

And the hearts were another issue for me as well. Some of the "flirts" were just off. Such as teaching Fenris to read. If the Hawke I am playing is a friendly, diplomatic character, why would wanting to help someone out be flirting.

[Ryzaki]

Lasien wrote...
What if I'm playing a non-snarky character? Aggressive I can see, but some of the choices I was given in-game (for more than just the romances) were very much "be an ass or a pansy"

And the hearts were another issue for me as well. Some of the "flirts" were just off. Such as teaching Fenris to read. If the Hawke I am playing is a friendly, diplomatic character, why would wanting to help someone out be flirting.

Then you'll just have to accept it as part of the character like I have to accept it as part of Fenris' character when he gives my character rivalry just for being a mage and recruiting him. If you refuse the outs given you (be snarky, be direct, or just shoot him down before he even starts flirting) there's nothing anyone can really do for you. And again it's no "them" to this it's just Anders. He's the only character that actually forces the PC to reject him or romance him. Though yes the rejection should've at least been based off your dominant voice (like his after sex rejection is).

Who knows. Just don't pick it if you don't want to initate a romance. I had the same question with some of the romance starters in DAO. At least you were forewarned.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 09:51 .

[Lasien]

Ryzaki wrote...

Lasien wrote...
What if I'm playing a non-snarky character? Aggressive I can see, but some of the choices I was given in-game (for more than just the romances) were very much "be an ass or a pansy"

And the hearts were another issue for me as well. Some of the "flirts" were just off. Such as teaching Fenris to read. If the Hawke I am playing is a friendly, diplomatic character, why would wanting to help someone out be flirting.

Then you'll just have to accept it as part of the character like I have to accept it as part of Fenris' character when he gives my character rivalry just for being a mage and recruiting him. If you refuse the outs given you (be snarky, be direct, or just shoot him down before he even starts flirting) there's nothing anyone can really do for you.

Who knows. Just don't pick it if you don't want to initate a romance. I had the same question with some of the romance starters in DAO. At least you were forewarned.

True. I just wonder if the little icons were more meant to indicate how the other person in the conversation would take it, rather than what your PC was trying to convey. If so, they didn't really seem to explain that at all.


As for my view on the whole "all-bi" subject, I don't feel that it really is that realistic. I think it would be more interesting to have at least one or two companions that were strictly hetero- or ******-sexual. As in, you could flirt with them, but it might just annoy them after you are turned down the first time. Much like aveline and her complete obliviousness.

[Ryzaki]

A little of both most likely.

You can have unromanceable companions be hetero-or homosexual without taking choice from anyone and making the most out of LI resources.

And realism doesn't strike me as a reasonable argument. 95% (if not more) of the game isn't realistic. It'd be pretty boring if it was.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 10:00 .

[Apathy1989]

Quoting myself from another thread...

Apathy1989 wrote...

Alexa_ wrote...

Second this.

There should be a LI for each gender and sexual orientation ... but not all mixed in one character and then just put four of those "all-in-one" LIs (willing to hump anyone called Hawke) into the game and label that as "equality" and "versatility"!

I disagree. 1 LI per gender/orientation is not enough.

If I was presented with 4 companions:

1 Male Straight
1 Male Gay
1 Female Straight
1 Female Gay

I would be disappointed if my only option as a straight guy was a single woman - because there are a range of personalities, of which only a few I am interested in. I tend to go for the certain characters bioware writes - Leliana, Tali, Liara and Merril. If I was told I only had the option of a character like Isabela, Morrigon or Miranda, I would be disappointed.

I support the idea of preset orientations, and I agree it adds more depth to the character. Traynor and Cortez were great characters in ME3. The sexual orientation of all the characters in DAO makes sense and adds to their character. However given the limited resources in creating a game, I am more keen to accept bisexual characters if it leaves more options open.

Edit: I think an elegent solution could be, as someone said, to have a sexual orientation on the character creation.

Each companion has a default sexual orientation, and some sort of backstory about this orientation. If the player has chosen his orientation that could make the companion an interest, then the companions orientation and backstory is swapped to the other gender.
However if the companion is not an interest for the player, then they are left at default.

eg
Steve Cortez, and his story of a dying husband

If player is a Straight Male, this story stays.
Gay Male, this story stays.
If the player is a Straight Female, the orientation swaps to being Steve Cortez and his story of a dying wife.
If the player is a gay female, the story stays at default.

Thoughts?

Modifié par Apathy1989, 10 juin 2012 - 11:07 .