930 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

So Fenris winking at the pretty girl in the story is just him commenting on her awesome haircut, probably?

I really don't consider that story canon. It's like Liara's comic. It's not in game so to me it doesn't count. So yes gay.  (I hate hate hate all of my hate when there's a bunch of out of game material trying to characterize characters in the game (that's not side characters that the player hardly interacts with). It just becomes a mess and most of the time there's contradictions or things that just don't make sense or the character acting in a different way in the comic/whatever than in the actual game. Easier for me to discard it unless it has relevant plot bits. (that and it falls in the same trap as metagaming. Fenris sleeps with Isabela if neither are in a romance with Hawke. Clearly that doesn't make a difference to me. Why should this? )

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 juin 2012 - 05:55 .

[Thor Rand Al]

 If their gonna have s/s romances in DA then I would rather them have the bi relationships because of the fact that it makes it fair for everyone to romance their desired companion.  Say Anders showed up in DA2 going from being into women from Awakenings (which a lot of women including myself swooned and wanted to romance him) to completely 100% into men in 2, all those women, myself included would of been p.o'd.  The way they did it in 2 seems to work for almost all people.

My only problem was was the Anders convo and the way it was done.  I'm a straight female who plays straight romances only and playing a male protag n going and talking to Anders and having that one convo after doing his act 1 quest really set my teeth on edge and made me cringe.  The only way to avoid him hitting on u was either make him angry or coming right out and saying I don't want to hear about your private life, this is business.  You can't gain any friendship points on this convo without him hitting on you.  The way they did Fenris convo I had no issues with because even at the end you tell him no n you don't get yelled at lol.  

Basically if their gonna do s/s relationships then I'd prefer more like Fenris and being able to say no without getting my ass chewed off lol.  But as far as having a completely gay romanceable companion I wouldn't want.  What if the companion was male who only prefered men n my female wanted to romance him or vice versa.   These are rpg's, leave the freedom of how we want to rp them.  The way they did it in 2 works.  Yes I'll be honest, I did prefer the way they did Origins but if their doing all romances open from now on then leave how 2 was done n I can even live with how Anders was done (even if I cringe everytime my male protag goes n talks to him) lol.

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 12 juin 2012 - 06:00 .

[jlb524]

 

Nyoka wrote...
I can't believe you rivaled Merrill, though. Now THAT should be an established part of the world: Hawke must always be nice to cute, adorable Merrill (and Bethany). Friendship-only paths for them in DA3 are a must, as well as a number of mandatory 15 minutes long conversations with both.

haha, here we go 

thats1evildude wrote...
 In my playthroughs, he's this super-manly dude who has women swooning as he passes.

He can still be gay and be super-manly with women swooning as he passes 

The Uncanny wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I still want every character's favorite ice cream flavor established consistently in all possible playthroughs.

But... but... what happens when they bring out a new flavour of ice cream? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

 

*brain explodes*

I...I...don't know!

Modifié par jlb524, 12 juin 2012 - 06:17 .

[EricHVela]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Am I the only one who doesn't think a character is bi-sexual if they do not "hit on" both genders during one playthrough?

If I am playing a man and I romance a male NPC in this playthrough, the NPC character is gay. If I play a woman and romance the same NPC character, in that playthrough he is straight. Admittedly, if during my playthrough that character hits on both male & female characters, then the change is they are bi (or very forgiving).

There's also the case where a character states their involvement with both genders without having to play multiple times.

In Thedas, I can overlook the commonality of this. It's a different world.

In a certain other game set in our world's distant future, it seems a bit too coincidental, but that's there and not here.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 12 juin 2012 - 06:47 .

[Apathy1989]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Am I the only one who doesn't think a character is bi-sexual if they do not "hit on" both genders during one playthrough?

If I am playing a man and I romance a male NPC in this playthrough, the NPC character is gay. If I play a woman and romance the same NPC character, in that playthrough he is straight. Admittedly, if during my playthrough that character hits on both male & female characters, then the change is they are bi (or very forgiving).

lol to coin the often used phrase - Hawksexual. 

[Thor Rand Al]

David Gaider wrote...
This is correct. Despite how some people seem to think characters talking about their former loves is somehow defining, I don't really see it as necessary in every case. Even if we moved to having romances which are closed off to certain genders, that doesn't mean we would suddenly start having them all discuss former loves. Like with DA2, it would likely be some characters doing so when it's important to their character (like Isabela) and others not doing it at all because it's irrelevant (like Fenris or Merrill).

Which doesn't mean it's not nice to have that as an option-- but just because it's an option doesn't mean it's one that needs to be used. Like syllogi points out, there's really only so much "talking about ex-lovers" that you can throw around before it induces more eye-rolling than it does character-defining. And since there's so many other things that can define a character, that's not worrisome. To me, anyhow. If others are worried about it, I think they're probably over-thinking it... and trying to find causality in why they liked Origins romances more where it likely doesn't belong.

But, hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the pinnacle of character development is to have everyone talk about who they've had sex with in the past so it's possible for a player to easily define them. Most of the Origins characters did it, and people liked them, so that must be specifically why, right? Weirder things have happened.

LOL your not wrong, we'll for me anyways.  Even in r/l I don't like hearing about my finacee's past sexual history lol.  I know I'm not the first but I really really don't need to hear about others lol.  Now once in a while like Isy making the comment about knowing the hero of Ferelden in a particular way made me chuckle but that's Isy and we all know how Isy is, have since Origins lol.  

[Thor Rand Al]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Am I the only one who doesn't think a character is bi-sexual if they do not "hit on" both genders during one playthrough?

If I am playing a man and I romance a male NPC in this playthrough, the NPC character is gay. If I play a woman and romance the same NPC character, in that playthrough he is straight. Admittedly, if during my playthrough that character hits on both male & female characters, then the change is they are bi (or very forgiving).

Perfectly said!!

[Chris Priestly]

jlb524 wrote...

I still want every character's favorite ice cream flavor established consistently in all possible playthroughs.

Given the nature of discussion in this thread, how politically incorrect is it to say "tutti-fruiti" now?

[Abispa]

Chris Priestly wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I still want every character's favorite ice cream flavor established consistently in all possible playthroughs.

Given the nature of discussion in this thread, how politically incorrect is it to say "tutti-fruiti" now?

It's Rainbow-licous now, dammit.

[Abispa]

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And Fenris is gay.

So Fenris winking at the pretty girl in the story is just him commenting on her awesome haircut, probably?

Get some gay friends, you won't believe how much playful flirting goes on between them and your girlfriend.

[Abispa]

David Gaider wrote...

*...a lot of awesome, enlightening stuff I just snipped.*

I was wondering if you could clarify whether, in the past, Bioware writers envisioned their characters' sexuality during their development. If so was it because the writers felt that, yes, these characters should be straight, or were the LIs just assumed straight until Bioware said they could be otherwise? Was the sexuality of the LIs merely a gameplay mechanic or an actual matter of character integrity?

Modifié par Abispa, 12 juin 2012 - 08:46 .

[wsandista]

Damn this thread moves fast.

Ryzaki wrote...

wsandista wrote...
I'm not arguing any of that either.

What I'm arguing that his actions could change. He would be willing to have sex with a female Shepard, while as it stands now he would not do that. that is a change. not a world-breaking one(unless you're a host on Fox News) but a change in behavior nonetheless.

Yeah no more than Leliana being hardened Morrigan being softened, Sten being friends with the Warden and so on.

Those are the results of PC actions, Cortez's sexuality isn't determined by the PC's actions, unless I missed the part where femshep flashes him and he suddenly gets interested in women.

It's not significant enough to justify restricting content to me.

You should be able to flirt with him as a female, but he should be able to turn you down.

@whykikyouwhy

TL;DR

If the NPC is written as a set sexual orientation that is not bisexual, then they should only be interested in PCs of a certain gender.

To reiterate what I've been saying,
I am against herosexual LIs because they change to accommodate the PC. I believe that the game world should be static at creation and not change because of the PCs gender, class, or race. This goes beyond just herosexual LIs and also includes the sibling situation.

This is different from using mods that change the game world, because mods are indiscriminate to the PC.

[Nomen Mendax]

Abispa wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

*...a lot of awesome, enlightening stuff I just snipped.*

I was wondering if you could clarify whether, in the past, Bioware writers envisioned their characters' sexuality during their development. If so was it because the writers felt that, yes, these characters should be straight, or were the LIs just assumed straight until Bioware said they could be otherwise? Was the sexuality of the LIs merely a gameplay mechanic or an actual matter of character integrity?

I know you are looking for an answer from David, but I don't see how LIs sexuality can be that important to a character's integrity in Thedas.  As far as I can tell Thedas is generally a very enlightened place, men and women can have the same occupations, and I haven't been aware of any discrimination based around anyone's sexuality.

So on the assumption that homosexual relationships seem to be perfectly accepted in Thedas, and that gay people won't have grown up facing censure or discrimination I'm not sure how a LI's sexuality is really going to change their character.

[robertthebard]

hhh89 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Am I the only one who doesn't think a character is bi-sexual if they do not "hit on" both genders during one playthrough?

If I am playing a man and I romance a male NPC in this playthrough, the NPC character is gay. If I play a woman and romance the same NPC character, in that playthrough he is straight. Admittedly, if during my playthrough that character hits on both male & female characters, then the change is they are bi (or very forgiving).

I agree, they're not bisexual. But if I made two playthroughs where I romanced the same male NPC with a male PC and a female PC, I'd define the character as herosexual. And in DA2's case it wasn't even metagaming, since Bioware announced that all the LI were available to every PC.
For me, a male NPC is hetero if I could romance him only with a female PC, he's gay if I could romance him with only a male PC, and he's bisexual if he could be romanced with both male and female PC.
I'd have no problem if every LI will be shown as bisexual (instead I'd prefer it). But as I said, I don't care much about the topic. I liked the fact that I could romance everyone in DA2 (though my preferred option would be a 2/2/2 ratio for hetero, gay and bisexual LI), and I liked the romance content of DA2.

Unless they put a billboard in Kirkwall, it's metagame knowledge.  It doesn't have to come from the game, you can glean information anywhere outside the game world to apply as metagame.

However, I do agree with Messere Priestly,

[robertthebard]

Abispa wrote...

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And Fenris is gay.

So Fenris winking at the pretty girl in the story is just him commenting on her awesome haircut, probably?

Get some gay friends, you won't believe how much playful flirting goes on between them and your girlfriend.

That's not the worst part, the worst part is when they get to having a discussion that reminds you of Leliana's shoe talk in Origins.  Especially after a couple of six packs, I was lmao at them.

[ianvillan]

robertthebard wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Am I the only one who doesn't think a character is bi-sexual if they do not "hit on" both genders during one playthrough?

If I am playing a man and I romance a male NPC in this playthrough, the NPC character is gay. If I play a woman and romance the same NPC character, in that playthrough he is straight. Admittedly, if during my playthrough that character hits on both male & female characters, then the change is they are bi (or very forgiving).

I agree, they're not bisexual. But if I made two playthroughs where I romanced the same male NPC with a male PC and a female PC, I'd define the character as herosexual. And in DA2's case it wasn't even metagaming, since Bioware announced that all the LI were available to every PC.
For me, a male NPC is hetero if I could romance him only with a female PC, he's gay if I could romance him with only a male PC, and he's bisexual if he could be romanced with both male and female PC.
I'd have no problem if every LI will be shown as bisexual (instead I'd prefer it). But as I said, I don't care much about the topic. I liked the fact that I could romance everyone in DA2 (though my preferred option would be a 2/2/2 ratio for hetero, gay and bisexual LI), and I liked the romance content of DA2.

Unless they put a billboard in Kirkwall, it's metagame knowledge.  It doesn't have to come from the game, you can glean information anywhere outside the game world to apply as metagame.

However, I do agree with Messere Priestly,

Chris Priestly is Orlesian, it all makes sense now.

[Chris Priestly]

Orlesian? I'm barely housebroken.

[Ryzaki]

wsandista wrote...


Those are the results of PC actions, Cortez's sexuality isn't determined by the PC's actions, unless I missed the part where femshep flashes him and he suddenly gets interested in women.

No it's not determined by PC actions. Neither are Fenris, Anders, Isabela's or Merrill's! Only difference is there's is open to interpretation. Not that it changes. Your interpreation changes. That's all. There's a big difference there.

And I doubt Cortez would be interested in a male Shep that flashed him either. That's just crass and rude.

Unless you want to say there's a part when Fenris suddenly goes from gay to straight because the PC told him. (Or same for any other LI). If so please point that out.

You should be able to flirt with him as a female, but he should be able to turn you down.

Same goes for every het only LI ever with a s/s PC.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 juin 2012 - 10:09 .

[TJX2045]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Am I the only one who doesn't think a character is bi-sexual if they do not "hit on" both genders during one playthrough?

If I am playing a man and I romance a male NPC in this playthrough, the NPC character is gay. If I play a woman and romance the same NPC character, in that playthrough he is straight. Admittedly, if during my playthrough that character hits on both male & female characters, then the change is they are bi (or very forgiving).

THIS.  SO MUCH.  That is why I feel it's insignificant the amount of "detail" that is lost by restricting LIs.  IMO the only way it ruins it is if you take your story not to be your canon because alternate stories that others play ruin it for you.  That's like someone saying Dragon Age Origins is ruined because they didn't get the exact same ending as other players so it ruins their story.

Ryzaki wrote...

wsandista wrote...
You should be able to flirt with him as a female, but he should be able to turn you down.

Same goes for every het only LI ever with a s/s PC. 

 
+1 Internets.

Modifié par TJX2045, 12 juin 2012 - 10:26 .

[SerTabris]

robertthebard wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Am I the only one who doesn't think a character is bi-sexual if they do not "hit on" both genders during one playthrough?

If I am playing a man and I romance a male NPC in this playthrough, the NPC character is gay. If I play a woman and romance the same NPC character, in that playthrough he is straight. Admittedly, if during my playthrough that character hits on both male & female characters, then the change is they are bi (or very forgiving).

I agree, they're not bisexual. But if I made two playthroughs where I romanced the same male NPC with a male PC and a female PC, I'd define the character as herosexual. And in DA2's case it wasn't even metagaming, since Bioware announced that all the LI were available to every PC.
For me, a male NPC is hetero if I could romance him only with a female PC, he's gay if I could romance him with only a male PC, and he's bisexual if he could be romanced with both male and female PC.
I'd have no problem if every LI will be shown as bisexual (instead I'd prefer it). But as I said, I don't care much about the topic. I liked the fact that I could romance everyone in DA2 (though my preferred option would be a 2/2/2 ratio for hetero, gay and bisexual LI), and I liked the romance content of DA2.

Unless they put a billboard in Kirkwall, it's metagame knowledge.  It doesn't have to come from the game, you can glean information anywhere outside the game world to apply as metagame.

However, I do agree with Messere Priestly,

I think that in these situations, the character might be bisexual always, or might vary across playthroughs, and there's really no way to tell (as both produce the same outcomes). If the character only expresses attraction to one gender, then you can fail to reject the null hypothesis that they are straight/gay, but that doesn't prove it.

[Centauri2002]

I don't understand the big furor over this topic. I really don't. What does it matter what your love interest is doing in other play throughs and, specifically, in other people's play throughs? They're not relevant to yours. Enjoy your own story and let other people worry about theirs. People worry far too much about labels. Isn't the important part how enjoyable the romance is for the player (and character)? So what if another gendered character can romance the same LI? It's irrelevant to your game. Unless, of course, BioWare were to implement a feature that allowed another (in this instance) Hawke to sneak into your game and sweep your LI off their feet and away from you. Something tells me that's not going to happen though.

[syllogi]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Am I the only one who doesn't think a character is bi-sexual if they do not "hit on" both genders during one playthrough?

If I am playing a man and I romance a male NPC in this playthrough, the NPC character is gay. If I play a woman and romance the same NPC character, in that playthrough he is straight. Admittedly, if during my playthrough that character hits on both male & female characters, then the change is they are bi (or very forgiving).

This is a perfectly fine way to look at it, but I personally would have liked to have that conversation about Karl with Anders, even as a female Hawke (and even in a platonic relationship).  But as I said earlier, I get why there were fewer conversations about past lovers in general.

Another example, however, would be Fenris "hooking up" with Isabela, if neither are attached to Hawke, in a male Hawke playthrough.  If Fenris previously had a relationship with male Hawke, and then had the "friends with benefits" banter with Isabela, to me, that's a pretty big sign that he's bisexual.  And I wouldn't want something like that taken out of the game because people have the odd notion that the mere possibility of this occurence would "homogenize" or otherwise ruin the character.  

When people who identify as bisexual are in a heterosexual relationship, it's for real, just as when they're in a homosexual relationship, it would not be any less just because there's a possibility that they could, someday, be attracted to someone else somewhere of another gender than the current partner.

I totally don't need the "full disclosure" list of past romantic partners for a potential LI, but I hope that giving them defining attraction to characters other than the player character continues to be possible.

Modifié par syllogi, 13 juin 2012 - 01:11 .

[jlb524]

wsandista wrote...
I am against herosexual LIs because they change to accommodate the PC.

No, it's to accomodate the player.

The PC doesn't have to 'turn them gay' or whatever.

 

wsandista wrote... 
I believe that the game world should be static at creation and not change because of the PCs gender, class, or race. This goes beyond just herosexual LIs and also includes the sibling situation.

Why?

And should the PC be included in that? (the PC is part of the game world).

wsandista wrote... 
This is different from using mods that change the game world, because mods are indiscriminate to the PC.

Mods change things to accomodate player taste too.

[Abispa]

Nomen Mendax wrote...

*Snip.*

I agree, I prefer the "herosexual" option and player choice myself. My only reservation is that I do NOT want writers to be forced to make characters "herosexual" if they feel the character they are writing is "meant" to be "straight" or "gay." I just wanted to know if LIs in previous games were "meant" to be "straight" and exclusive, or if that was just a default assumption to cater to the majority.

[Abispa]

centauri2002 wrote...

I don't understand the big furor over this topic. I really don't. What does it matter what your love interest is doing in other play throughs and, specifically, in other people's play throughs? They're not relevant to yours. Enjoy your own story and let other people worry about theirs. People worry far too much about labels. Isn't the important part how enjoyable the romance is for the player (and character)? So what if another gendered character can romance the same LI? It's irrelevant to your game. Unless, of course, BioWare were to implement a feature that allowed another (in this instance) Hawke to sneak into your game and sweep your LI off their feet and away from you. Something tells me that's not going to happen though.

It comes down to "my head canon has more integrity and is more sacred than yours."