248 réponses à ce sujet

[winterbrood]

 A lot of people on these forums, myself included, feel like Bioware committed character assassination on both Cerberus and TIM. After going to the trouble to set up this complex, morally gray organization in ME2, they throw everything away and decide to make Cerberus a comic book villain for the third installment. Nearly every action Cerberus takes in ME3 is contradictory to their established ideals and decisions, leaving them as little more than bad plot devices with guns. Did anyone look at Cerberus in ME3 and say "Yes! This is totally where I hoped Cerberus would be!" If so, why?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

No character-assassination, just too relevant. The game should have been more focused on the Reapers. Most of the Cerberus plot should have been moved to DLC.

[arial]

people act like Cerberus being evil is a new thing.

Cerberus was pure evil from the get-go. cloneing Rachni, enslaving Thorian creepers, killed Admiral Kahoku, what they did to Jack, Project Overlord.

the belief that they had any good in them was just TIM manipulating you. Cerberus was, is, and always will be an evil orginization

[D24O]

I wish TIM wasn't indoctrinated, and he was just trying to do what he genuinely thought was best.

[lordhugorune]

I think the Nemesis and Phantom were both a bit over-the-top, but in the general concept of what Cerberus under TIM were trying to do, which was control at all costs (vs Shepard and the alliance - destroy at all costs - I think making them as big a part of the plot as they were, and in that fashion - is justified.

[Nefla]

No, a good villian is one you hate but also identify/sympathize with. I think Loghain was a great villian in DA:O. Cerberus in ME3 is one dimentional and they no longer seem to have a goal beyond "thwart Shepard at every turn."

[EricHVela]

The ending of ME2 wasn't really all that morally vague IMHO. The way TIM went on about how he wanted the base (and his joy or disappointment afterward) already turned him into a definite villain. (I began to wonder if he did all that just to get hold of whatever Reaper tech lay beyond the Omega relay.)

But I agree with HYR: They paid far too much attention to Cerberus. I think they should have been side-quests trying to beat them to resources (and for a twist, Shepard could fail the mission and continue the game with a -TMS hit). There should have been only one single hinge to pull Cerb into the main plot near the end to bring closure to Cerb.

[KingZayd]

yes.

although i'd prefer some explanation as to their motives on Sur'kesh and Tuchanka

Modifié par KingZayd, 05 juin 2012 - 07:52 .

[LucasShark]

No: this direction makes no goddamn sense! Why are human supremicists subverting human interests? And before someone breathes indoctrination via reaper-tech: god damn do I hate reaper tech being the answer to every bloody plot hole.

[Village_Idiot]

The trouble with Cerberus in ME3 is its hard to draw a line as to where TIM's goals end and Reaper indoctrination begins. The point in the plot at which TIM jumps off the slippery slope and becomes a mere pawn isn't very clear, though you can arguably say that Cerberus' attack on the Sur'kesh facility could only be justified if they were intentionally helping the Reapers, meaning Cerberus is aiding Reaper goals for almost all of ME3.

The videos on Cronos station seem to imply TIM only came entirely under the Reaper's sway shortly before the end, but given their earlier actions this seems odd.

[arial]

Droidsbane42 wrote...

not really. I felt they where trying to make them out to be the Empire from Starwars.

I wish, the empire was awesome (I always played Empire in SWG).

If Cerberus is no where near as awesome as the Galactic Empire *sets ringtone to the imperial march*

[ZackG312]

arial wrote...

people act like Cerberus being evil is a new thing.

Cerberus was pure evil from the get-go. cloneing Rachni, enslaving Thorian creepers, killed Admiral Kahoku, what they did to Jack, Project Overlord.

the belief that they had any good in them was just TIM manipulating you. Cerberus was, is, and always will be an evil orginization

This

People tend to forget this stuff

[Zeroth Angel]

Cerberus was imo the "Ends justify the means" gang in ME2.
Going the easy way and making Cerberus Chaotic Evil in ME3 just proves how lazy the writers are.
Seriously Cerberus is like the Enclave (F3) from Mass Effect.

[Creepter]

Cerberus went from an interestingly evil organization in ME2 to a mustache twirling Galactic Empire that got increasingly stupidly powerful. I know that the plot gave a lazy explanation as to why they suddenly had roughly a billion foot soldiers but they became riddiculous when they had enough resources - ships, gear, logistics, food, manpower - to spread across over an entire galaxy to serve as mindless target practise when the plot didn't feel like throwing Reapers at us.

TIM was still cool and interesting because of Martin Sheen. Most of what he did did little to no sense and making him the de facto main antagonist in the game over any Reaper was a... questionable decision.

[afb2271]

If you've read the books and paid attention to certain information in game it is obvioud the Illusive Man was just playing Shepard. He has been evil from the start.

[Jadebaby]

arial wrote...

people act like Cerberus being evil is a new thing.

Cerberus was pure evil from the get-go. cloneing Rachni, enslaving Thorian creepers, killed Admiral Kahoku, what they did to Jack, Project Overlord.

the belief that they had any good in them was just TIM manipulating you. Cerberus was, is, and always will be an evil orginization

If they were so evil they wouldn't have bought back Shepard.

[Village_Idiot]

Creepter wrote...
I know that the plot gave a lazy explanation as to why they suddenly had roughly a billion foot soldiers but they became riddiculous when they had enough resources - ships, gear, logistics, food, manpower - to spread across over an entire galaxy to serve as mindless target practise when the plot didn't feel like throwing Reapers at us.

I felt the plot justified Cerberus' troop numbers- Sanctuary is effectively a factory capable of turning out fully trained soldiers at an alarming rate. Cerberus is also in control of Omega, as well as sourcing "recruits" from Benning and Eden Prime at various points in the plot. Cerberus forces are also never encountered in strength exceeding that of a strike force. They're not packing standing armies at any point.

However, I agree that their resources start to get a bit wacky towards the end. I mean, they have enough ships to hold 5th fleet at bay, even if only for a while- that's one hell of a force for a shadowy paramilitary group to be hiding.

Modifié par Shadrach 88, 05 juin 2012 - 08:03 .

[capn233]

That's why the put the "Battle of Hoth" into ME3 (ex-Cerberus Scientists).

It was amazing how many Storm Troopers and ATAT's were sent after the scientists in the last scene.

[Ageless Face]

I really hate what was done to Cerberus. In ME2 I never trusted Cerberus, but that was because my ideals. I don't believe in "humans first", or the end justify the means. And I definitely didn't see TIM as trustworthy. But they were never really "evil". Just too much of "action, not words".

In ME3, it was evil. Simple as that. Even in the book retribution it was going too far. To quote Shepard: "Cerberus was supposed to be humanity's sword, not a dagger in our back".

Cerberus was not a "human first" organization anymore. More like a "Illusive Man first" organization.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 05 juin 2012 - 08:07 .

[arial]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

arial wrote...

people act like Cerberus being evil is a new thing.

Cerberus was pure evil from the get-go. cloneing Rachni, enslaving Thorian creepers, killed Admiral Kahoku, what they did to Jack, Project Overlord.

the belief that they had any good in them was just TIM manipulating you. Cerberus was, is, and always will be an evil orginization

If they were so evil they wouldn't have bought back Shepard.

that really isnt much of a counter point

LOTR Refrence: Saruman was still evil, even though he opposed Sauron

[LucasShark]

afb2271 wrote...

If you've read the books and paid attention to certain information in game it is obvioud the Illusive Man was just playing Shepard. He has been evil from the start.

No der: but at this point he's gone from Magneto interesting grey-area evil to the Joker outright insane and infinitely funded evil.

[Tirranek]

I think it would have been better if the human soldiers weren't so visibly huskified. It's hard to see them as anything other than straight up villains with the body horror.

[KingZayd]

Shadrach 88 wrote...

The trouble with Cerberus in ME3 is its hard to draw a line as to where TIM's goals end and Reaper indoctrination begins. The point in the plot at which TIM jumps off the slippery slope and becomes a mere pawn isn't very clear, though you can arguably say that Cerberus' attack on the Sur'kesh facility could only be justified if they were intentionally helping the Reapers, meaning Cerberus is aiding Reaper goals for almost all of ME3.

The videos on Cronos station seem to imply TIM only came entirely under the Reaper's sway shortly before the end, but given their earlier actions this seems odd.

Maybe, like the Salarians, TIM considers the Krogan to be too dangerous for the genophage to be cured?

[Village_Idiot]

Tirranek wrote...

I think it would have been better if the human soldiers weren't so visibly huskified. It's hard to see them as anything other than straight up villains with the body horror.

Or alternatively, that every Cerberus soldier you gun down was potentially originally an innocent civilian, or even an ally.

It's a relection on TIM's extremism and how Cerberus is producing such capable troops, rather than "these guys are pig-ugly, hence you must kill them."