248 réponses à ce sujet

[Starch]

My opinion on cerberus for the whole series is good concept but with bad implementation - specially on ME3. I always liked how cerberus did their thing (ME1 and ME2) like they looking out for humanity's best interest.

[SnakeSNMF]

no god no.

they were powerful but I felt like they got absolutely mindblowingly huge in a small amount of time.

on top of that, Kai Leng is a cliche assassin poorly scripted.
he was appealing just as a challenge.

Not enough of the Illusive Man was showing.

and I really, really, saw the indoctrination on Illusive Man frm a mile behind-- it would've been a unique plot-twist if Cerberus had actually joined arms again with the Alliance as a black ops division.


To see the Cerberus fleet end-game would've been great.

[dreman9999]

They brought a proto reaper in to there base and tried to turn it in to there own weapon just as TIM wanted to do in ME2......Take a look at that action and everything they do after it is obvious that it not character assassination.

[dreman9999]

Starch wrote...

My opinion on cerberus for the whole series is good concept but with bad implementation - specially on ME3. I always liked how cerberus did their thing (ME1 and ME2) like they looking out for humanity's best interest.

But ME3 asks the obvious question to if humanity asked them to look after them and if they are going too extreme. That's always been there theme since they first showed up. The moment the proto reaper came into there hands it's obvious they wer going to go to the extreme.

[MadCat221]

Cerberus has always been "Extremism is the first resort". From day one in ME1. To think otherwise is to be willfully blind.

When Timmay said something in ME2 along the lines of "Diplomacy is good, but problematc when everyone considers you a threat", I almost always say "And whose fault is that now?" to myself.

Modifié par MadCat221, 06 juin 2012 - 06:39 .

[dreman9999]

SnakeSNMF wrote...

no god no.

they were powerful but I felt like they got absolutely mindblowingly huge in a small amount of time.

on top of that, Kai Leng is a cliche assassin poorly scripted.
he was appealing just as a challenge.

Not enough of the Illusive Man was showing.

and I really, really, saw the indoctrination on Illusive Man frm a mile behind-- it would've been a unique plot-twist if Cerberus had actually joined arms again with the Alliance as a black ops division.


To see the Cerberus fleet end-game would've been great.

I don't think that would be a good plot twist...Just confusing. GThe entire concept of Cerberus and TIM is the theme of Icerus.  Is what they are doing too much. They are doing the hard thing need to do, but what are the cost?
Having cerberus join up with the alliance would just go ageinst that concept cerberus had day one.

[CroGamer002]

No.

They become a stereotypical comic book space n@zis villains in ME3.

[Landon7001]

not really...though it was cool going to the illusive mans base, seeing that it was an actual star all along, standing in the spot where you were alwyas projected before.....that was cool stuff for me....i would really like to know in more detail though when/how exactlt TIM got indoctrinated.....i think cerberus should have stayed in the grey area instead of practically growing devil horns

[Sisterofshane]

MadCat221 wrote...

Cerberus has always been "Extremism is the first resort". From day one in ME1. To think otherwise is to be willfully blind.

When Timmay said something in ME2 along the lines of "Diplomacy is good, but problematc when everyone considers you a threat", I almost always say "And whose fault is that now?" to myself.

They were ruthless pragmatic, to be sure, but they weren't drowning cats and blind puppies.  I wouldn't have even considered them to be "evil" in the first installment.

They were always meant to be antagonistic, but in ME3 they becoming more dastardly than the Reapers.  

[RukiaKuchki]

I think they needed Cerberus in the plot essentially to add drama and make the odds of Shephard's task virtually insurmountable. I think TIM is quite a complex character - he is essentially a monster, and you have to question whether he is doing what he is doing for the advancement (and survival) of humanity, or purely for himself. But it's ambiguous as to why he's such a monster. He was involved in black ops in the First Contact Wars and he is obviously a viscious xenophobe, but what essentially made him lose his empathy for humanity, to the extent that his fundamental goal in ME2 was not to prevent humans being abducted by the Collectors, but to salvage Reaper technology to use against them? The same in ME3 - he was more than willing to sacrifice thousands of humans who had sought sanctuary from the war on Horizon to achieve his goal, and countless more on the Citadel. But...with his closing moments...there is still a glimpse of humanity making you question at what stage was he being manipulated? Was he really an irredeemable monster, and at the last moment did Shephard save TIM from himself? Do TIM's ends really justify the means? In a way, the answer to that question could be yes...

The only Cerberus character I feel failed was Kai Leng...just, wrong on so many levels. His inclusion is the only thing in the game that I really wish Bioware could expunge(!), and I'm glad that he only appears in a couple of scenes. The fight with him on Chronos station on insanity is a right pain in the bum.

[xsdob]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Absolutely not.

Like most things in ME3, they were changed to accommodate the new crowd.

They completely butchered TIM's character. Taking everything away from him what made him so appealing/awesome in ME2.

This.

So your just hating on it because mass effect 3 did it, good to know you have your priorities straight and looked up nothing on the illusive man outside of his video game cameo.

[Starch]

dreman9999 wrote...

But ME3 asks the obvious question to if humanity asked them to look after them and if they are going too extreme. That's always been there theme since they first showed up. The moment the proto reaper came into there hands it's obvious they wer going to go to the extreme.

Yes they're extreme, but they also made valuable contributions. 

Back in ME2 days, i always thought they're gunning for the opposite end of the spectrum (not controlling reapers) but something like to use reaper tech against the reapers wherein if shep's method was more conventional way, cerby's efforts were the un-convetional way in defeating reapers. But came ME3 and TIM was indoctrinated and they became villians. 

[xsdob]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Cerberus has always been "Extremism is the first resort". From day one in ME1. To think otherwise is to be willfully blind.

When Timmay said something in ME2 along the lines of "Diplomacy is good, but problematc when everyone considers you a threat", I almost always say "And whose fault is that now?" to myself.

They were ruthless pragmatic, to be sure, but they weren't drowning cats and blind puppies.  I wouldn't have even considered them to be "evil" in the first installment.

They were always meant to be antagonistic, but in ME3 they becoming more dastardly than the Reapers.  

They fed soldiers to Threser Maws! On more than one occasion! How can you not call that evil?

They stuck admiral kahoku in a cage full of rachni! And when he didn't go down they resorted to euthenasia instead.

They were the ****ing space ****'s!

[Lookout1390]

xsdob wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Absolutely not.

Like most things in ME3, they were changed to accommodate the new crowd.

They completely butchered TIM's character. Taking everything away from him what made him so appealing/awesome in ME2.

This.

So your just hating on it because mass effect 3 did it, good to know you have your priorities straight and looked up nothing on the illusive man outside of his video game cameo.

Nice to see you disprove my point with no facts or info to back your statement up, and to actually address my argument.

Oh wait, you actually did none of that.

My mistake.

[Sisterofshane]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Cerberus has always been "Extremism is the first resort". From day one in ME1. To think otherwise is to be willfully blind.

When Timmay said something in ME2 along the lines of "Diplomacy is good, but problematc when everyone considers you a threat", I almost always say "And whose fault is that now?" to myself.

They were ruthless pragmatic, to be sure, but they weren't drowning cats and blind puppies.  I wouldn't have even considered them to be "evil" in the first installment.

They were always meant to be antagonistic, but in ME3 they becoming more dastardly than the Reapers.  

They fed soldiers to Threser Maws! On more than one occasion! How can you not call that evil?

It wasn't right, but it served a general purpose.  They weren't doing it for the lulz.
In ME3, the Reapers had a more agreeable purpose then TIM did.  That's just not right.

[Sisterofshane]

Starch wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But ME3 asks the obvious question to if humanity asked them to look after them and if they are going too extreme. That's always been there theme since they first showed up. The moment the proto reaper came into there hands it's obvious they wer going to go to the extreme.

Yes they're extreme, but they also made valuable contributions. 

Back in ME2 days, i always thought they're gunning for the opposite end of the spectrum (not controlling reapers) but something like to use reaper tech against the reapers wherein if shep's method was more conventional way, cerby's efforts were the un-convetional way in defeating reapers. But came ME3 and TIM was indoctrinated and they became villians. 

This.  They began to really flesh out the organization so that it wasn't so cut and dry, and then they decided to reverse course and really make them despicable.

[xsdob]

Lookout1390 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Absolutely not.

Like most things in ME3, they were changed to accommodate the new crowd.

They completely butchered TIM's character. Taking everything away from him what made him so appealing/awesome in ME2.

This.

So your just hating on it because mass effect 3 did it, good to know you have your priorities straight and looked up nothing on the illusive man outside of his video game cameo.

Nice to see you disprove my point with no facts or info to back your statement up, and to actually address my argument.

Oh wait, you actually did none of that.

My mistake.

What he did to paul grayson was beyond horrible, and what he allowed to happen with his other agents is unforgviable. The countless lives he's ruined pre-mass effect 3 are truly horrific, and nothing justifyes that.

Nothing goes by him unnoticed, nothing happens in cerberus without his knowledge and approval. The books conveyed that very well, he was a monster and his portrayl in mass effect 3 is the most accurate depiction of his character to all the other mateirals than mass effect 2's.

[MegaBadExample]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Starch wrote...

My opinion on cerberus for the whole series is good concept but with bad implementation - specially on ME3. I always liked how cerberus did their thing (ME1 and ME2) like they looking out for humanity's best interest.

I liked ME3 Cerberus, because they matched ME1 Cerberus. Cerberus wasn't looking out for humanity in ME1, they were just crazy.

This. I never trusted them. How can you after everything? However indoctrinating TIM was such a waste.

[Lookout1390]

xsdob wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Absolutely not.

Like most things in ME3, they were changed to accommodate the new crowd.

They completely butchered TIM's character. Taking everything away from him what made him so appealing/awesome in ME2.

This.

So your just hating on it because mass effect 3 did it, good to know you have your priorities straight and looked up nothing on the illusive man outside of his video game cameo.

Nice to see you disprove my point with no facts or info to back your statement up, and to actually address my argument.

Oh wait, you actually did none of that.

My mistake.

What he did to paul grayson was beyond horrible, and what he allowed to happen with his other agents is unforgviable. The countless lives he's ruined pre-mass effect 3 are truly horrific, and nothing justifyes that.

Nothing goes by him unnoticed, nothing happens in cerberus without his knowledge and approval. The books conveyed that very well, he was a monster and his portrayl in mass effect 3 is the most accurate depiction of his character to all the other mateirals than mass effect 2's.

He is a brilliant man, and knows that no one is immune to the effects of indoctrination, so he knows what will happen if he plays with reaper tech.

Oh what do you know, he got indoctrinated.

And absolutely no evidence so far has shown that a force like the Reapers can be controlled, let alone to serve humanity, if he wanted to preserve humanity, he would have agreed to kill them and try to use their remains to help further our technology AFTER they were dead.

Oh what do you know, he tried to control them and ended up getting controlled instead.

Yeah, TIM sure is deep in ME3.

[Sisterofshane]

xsdob wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Absolutely not.

Like most things in ME3, they were changed to accommodate the new crowd.

They completely butchered TIM's character. Taking everything away from him what made him so appealing/awesome in ME2.

This.

So your just hating on it because mass effect 3 did it, good to know you have your priorities straight and looked up nothing on the illusive man outside of his video game cameo.

Nice to see you disprove my point with no facts or info to back your statement up, and to actually address my argument.

Oh wait, you actually did none of that.

My mistake.

What he did to paul grayson was beyond horrible, and what he allowed to happen with his other agents is unforgviable. The countless lives he's ruined pre-mass effect 3 are truly horrific, and nothing justifyes that.

Nothing goes by him unnoticed, nothing happens in cerberus without his knowledge and approval. The books conveyed that very well, he was a monster and his portrayl in mass effect 3 is the most accurate depiction of his character to all the other mateirals than mass effect 2's.

I don't know.  The other media seems to go both ways.  In Evolution we see his origin, and he doesn't seem unreasonable there.  I figured that he has always known that the Reapers were coming (at least since Evolution), and everything you see afterwards up until ME3 is him doing what is necessary to defeat them 9even if his methods are a little ruthless, they all had purpose).

And then ME2 came out, and they really reinforce that stereotype.  Especially when you begin to see that much of what he does pays out.

What happens between TIM and the Reapers in ME3 is a complete role-reversal.  They really would have done better to keep the Reapers as the big-bad, and have cerberus be morally gray (even if TIM wasn't).

[xsdob]

Lookout1390 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Absolutely not.

Like most things in ME3, they were changed to accommodate the new crowd.

They completely butchered TIM's character. Taking everything away from him what made him so appealing/awesome in ME2.

This.

So your just hating on it because mass effect 3 did it, good to know you have your priorities straight and looked up nothing on the illusive man outside of his video game cameo.

Nice to see you disprove my point with no facts or info to back your statement up, and to actually address my argument.

Oh wait, you actually did none of that.

My mistake.

What he did to paul grayson was beyond horrible, and what he allowed to happen with his other agents is unforgviable. The countless lives he's ruined pre-mass effect 3 are truly horrific, and nothing justifyes that.

Nothing goes by him unnoticed, nothing happens in cerberus without his knowledge and approval. The books conveyed that very well, he was a monster and his portrayl in mass effect 3 is the most accurate depiction of his character to all the other mateirals than mass effect 2's.

He is a brilliant man, and knows that no one is immune to the effects of indoctrination, so he knows what will happen if he plays with reaper tech.

Oh what do you know, he got indoctrinated.

And absolutely no evidence so far has shown that a force like the Reapers can be controlled, let alone to serve humanity, if he wanted to preserve humanity, he would have agreed to kill them and try to use their remains to help further our technology AFTER they were dead.

Oh what do you know, he tried to control them and ended up getting controlled instead.

Yeah, TIM sure is deep in ME3.

He injected paul grayson with pure nanites extracted from the human reaper in order to study the reapers influence on the human body, and he choose grayson because he left the orginization after they wanted him to use his daughter as a lab rat for the new pragia experiments.

And his daughter, gillian, came from another family, one from a colony TIM ordered to be exposed to near lethal levels of E-zero.

He has a habbit of doing things that put everyone else in danger just to advance his own cause, the humanity first crap is just that, a load of crap he came up with when he helped create terra firma. Oh, and the old leader was someone who was open to debate and discussion with opposition leaders, so TIM had him murdered and replaced with Charles Saracino beacause he was easier to control.

Modifié par xsdob, 06 juin 2012 - 07:23 .

[TenmaTaro]

xsdob wrote...

CSI_Spectre wrote...

I think Cerberus could have been handled much better. They were never an organization that did these evil things without a good reason.

Admiral Kahoku and Akuze.

Kahoku was a major liability. Any clandestine organization that cared about its secrets would have taken him out. Although, I'll admit that Akuze was extreme.