248 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

We didn't read the same book then....
Grayson did not beleive the quarian kidnapped his daughter.

Because I don't have the book on hand. Read the first sentence.

[dreman9999]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Still, with the amount of resources that they had, they could have helped in ME2. BioWare should have just debut them there and then, and cemented just who they were and their intentions. The way that they introduced Cerberus in ME3 is just bad. From a misunderstood organization to full on bad guys. To me, it feels like Cerberus and TIM have replaced the Reapers and Harbinger as the main villains of the game.

Cerberus was pure tech and black ops then.....They hele with the tech part clearly. The lack of ops help was on perpose...Why risk the life of your key fighting men when you can use someone elses?
Also, you missed the proto reaper in the cerberus base...Remeber...reaper teck indoctrinates. And TIM's state of mind was always like what is in most of  ME3.. You just got caught in his lies.

[TeffexPope]

Shadrach 88 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Maybe, like the Salarians, TIM considers the Krogan to be too dangerous for the genophage to be cured?

I've heard this theory before, and it's possible. But considering Cerberus' main (if ultimately perverted) goal is to stop the Reapers too, it seems odd for them to divert resources to harrass the interests of a third party. Regardless of genophage ethics, the Krogan aren't actively hostile to Cerberus, though by attacking Sur'Kesh and Tuchanka they sure as hell give them a reason to be.

I just think if Cerberus wasn't acting in the Reaper's interests at this point in the plot, they'd realise there were greater things at stake than a Krogan resurgence. As catastrophic as that could be, it's nothing next to the Reapers.

Why is everything a theory on this forum? Does everyone sit in their chairs in a stereotypical white coat?

But anyway this seems the best explanation, let alone the reapers subtley influencing him and letting him go about his business since it weakens the resistance.

[Icinix]

o Ventus wrote...

Icinix wrote...

No.

Cerberus is like a totally different group in each of the three games.

They're totally different and make no sense.

They went from a covert rogue black ops group, to a morally grey organisation that had a fair bit of backing from good people, to a corrupted evil powerful empire with fleets and armies and stuff.

The pooh did not make sense.

I blame bad plot contrivances.


Though I think it's safe to assume that their status as a former Black Op was successfully retconned in Evolution.

Yeah... the comics...

Man..did all the many collections of comics available for Mass Effect do some damage to the integrity of Mass Effect.

[xsdob]

Any organization that lets a sadist like pel into it's ranks and makes them high ranking officers is never to be trusted, ever.

His signature move? Removing victims eyelids so that they're eyes dry out to the point of going blind from blood constriction over the course of days.

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

We didn't read the same book then....
Grayson did not beleive the quarian kidnapped his daughter.

Because I don't have the book on hand. Read the first sentence.

Wow...Where do you get kidnapped from that?

Taken does not mean kidnapped. Again, Grayson does not beleive the quarian kidnapped his daughter. It more of a case of that they took her to safty. AKA, TOOK HER...

[dreman9999]

TeffexPope wrote...

Shadrach 88 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Maybe, like the Salarians, TIM considers the Krogan to be too dangerous for the genophage to be cured?

I've heard this theory before, and it's possible. But considering Cerberus' main (if ultimately perverted) goal is to stop the Reapers too, it seems odd for them to divert resources to harrass the interests of a third party. Regardless of genophage ethics, the Krogan aren't actively hostile to Cerberus, though by attacking Sur'Kesh and Tuchanka they sure as hell give them a reason to be.

I just think if Cerberus wasn't acting in the Reaper's interests at this point in the plot, they'd realise there were greater things at stake than a Krogan resurgence. As catastrophic as that could be, it's nothing next to the Reapers.

Why is everything a theory on this forum? Does everyone sit in their chairs in a stereotypical white coat?

But anyway this seems the best explanation, let alone the reapers subtley influencing him and letting him go about his business since it weakens the resistance.

^THIS..
Did people miss the proto reaper on the cerberus base?

[incinerator950]

No

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

We didn't read the same book then....
Grayson did not beleive the quarian kidnapped his daughter.

Because I don't have the book on hand. Read the first sentence.

Wow...Where do you get kidnapped from that?

Taken does not mean kidnapped. Again, Grayson does not beleive the quarian kidnapped his daughter. It more of a case of that they took her to safty. AKA, TOOK HER...

Context clues. Do you know what they are?

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

Did people miss the proto reaper on the cerberus base?

... It was sitting there dead. Powering the base.

Evil?

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

We didn't read the same book then....
Grayson did not beleive the quarian kidnapped his daughter.

Because I don't have the book on hand. Read the first sentence.

Wow...Where do you get kidnapped from that?

Taken does not mean kidnapped. Again, Grayson does not beleive the quarian kidnapped his daughter. It more of a case of that they took her to safty. AKA, TOOK HER...

Context clues. Do you know what they are?

I understand what that is but I read the book...And I know for a fact  he doesn't think the quarians kidnapped his daughter...

Took ...Yes.
Kidnapped  ...No.

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Did people miss the proto reaper on the cerberus base?

... It was sitting there dead. Powering the base.

Evil?

Sure, like death stops a reaper from Indoctriating...AKA, derlict reaper in me2.

[DEATHSCOPE]

dreman9999 wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Still, with the amount of resources that they had, they could have helped in ME2. BioWare should have just debut them there and then, and cemented just who they were and their intentions. The way that they introduced Cerberus in ME3 is just bad. From a misunderstood organization to full on bad guys. To me, it feels like Cerberus and TIM have replaced the Reapers and Harbinger as the main villains of the game.

Cerberus was pure tech and black ops then.....They hele with the tech part clearly. The lack of ops help was on perpose...Why risk the life of your key fighting men when you can use someone elses?
Also, you missed the proto reaper in the cerberus base...Remeber...reaper teck indoctrinates. And TIM's state of mind was always like what is in most of  ME3.. You just got caught in his lies.

Risk the lives of their key fighting men? Are you serious? This is Cerberus we are talking about here. Shepard and the Normandy's crew of misfits destroyed the Collector's base out of pure CHANCE and LUCK. The crew didn't give up because they believed in Shepard. Now TIM and Ceberus on the other hand, takes everything in numbers. Who's a liability, who's expendable, what are the chances of success? So it's kind of ridiculous that they didn't send any help at ALL on the suicide mission through the relay. Even when they know that humanity's fate is at stake.

Also, obviously YOU didn't play Sanctuary when Cerberus and Reaper forces were fighting. Cerberus wanted to control them remember? TIM wasn't fully indoctrinated by then.

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Did people miss the proto reaper on the cerberus base?

... It was sitting there dead. Powering the base.

Evil?

Sure, like death stops a reaper from Indoctriating...AKA, derlict reaper in me2.

Why do I need to keep explaining this?

The derelict Reaper was indoctrinating people because it was still technically "alive", with its eezo core still functioning perfectly fine.

The human Reaper is dead. Like, fully dead. Like, no longer alive levels of dead. Not that it matters anyway, since everyone in Cerberus at that point is either already indoctrinated or dead to begin with.

[Joccaren]

Somewhat. They went from a full Renegade co-operation with goals to advancing humanity, even if their methods were extremely questionable to... A space empire... that attacked people... for no discernible reason.
In ME1 there was at least ambition in their acts. Rachni research, Thorian research - they were trying to find things out, obviously trying to gain some advantage by using them. Why? Revealed in ME2. But they had a goal.
In ME3 their goal just seems to be "Kill ALL the things", and they magically have the resources to do so - launching an all out assault on the Citadel, and coming close to winning until Shepard gets there. Seriously. WTF.

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Did people miss the proto reaper on the cerberus base?

... It was sitting there dead. Powering the base.

Evil?

Sure, like death stops a reaper from Indoctriating...AKA, derlict reaper in me2.

Why do I need to keep explaining this?

The derelict Reaper was indoctrinating people because it was still technically "alive", with its eezo core still functioning perfectly fine.

The human Reaper is dead. Like, fully dead. Like, no longer alive levels of dead. Not that it matters anyway, since everyone in Cerberus at that point is either already indoctrinated or dead to begin with.

....No...It was dead. It was stated over and over agian to be dead. If you think it's obvious it's alive...Show me this proof..
Further more, The proto reaper was shown to indoctriante any way....Remeber the video in the cerberus base where they expline how they enhanceed there solder? They cleary say they took parts of the proto reaper and implaned them into  volenteers...These men soon here whispers after the implantation, clear symtoms of indoctriantion.....
So yes, dead reapers can still indoctrinate.

[dreman9999]

Joccaren wrote...

Somewhat. They went from a full Renegade co-operation with goals to advancing humanity, even if their methods were extremely questionable to... A space empire... that attacked people... for no discernible reason.
In ME1 there was at least ambition in their acts. Rachni research, Thorian research - they were trying to find things out, obviously trying to gain some advantage by using them. Why? Revealed in ME2. But they had a goal.
In ME3 their goal just seems to be "Kill ALL the things", and they magically have the resources to do so - launching an all out assault on the Citadel, and coming close to winning until Shepard gets there. Seriously. WTF.

They have reasons...You just  missed it.

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

....No...It was dead. It was stated over and over agian to be dead. If you think it's obvious it's alive...Show me this proof..
Further more, The proto reaper was shown to indoctriante any way....Remeber the video in the cerberus base where they expline how they enhanceed there solder? They cleary say they took parts of the proto reaper and implaned them into  volenteers...These men soon here whispers after the implantation, clear symtoms of indoctriantion.....
So yes, dead reapers can still indoctrinate.

It was stated to be dead.... When we can clearly see it isn't. Did you somehow skip that part of ME2 where you destroy its power core? You know, everyone also states the Crucible was built by the protheans, when it wasn't.

The only things the terminals talk about are Lazarus, TIM's implants, EDI, and Kai Leng.

Dead Reapers can only indoctrinate if they have a power core to transmit the infra- and ultrasonic sounds and other various subliminal messages. Except, y'know, having an active core like the derelict Reaper makes it "alive" in the technical sense.

Modifié par o Ventus, 06 juin 2012 - 08:38 .

[wryterra]

winterbrood wrote...

 A lot of people on these forums, myself included, feel like Bioware committed character assassination on both Cerberus and TIM. After going to the trouble to set up this complex, morally gray organization in ME2, they throw everything away and decide to make Cerberus a comic book villain for the third installment. Nearly every action Cerberus takes in ME3 is contradictory to their established ideals and decisions, leaving them as little more than bad plot devices with guns. Did anyone look at Cerberus in ME3 and say "Yes! This is totally where I hoped Cerberus would be!" If so, why?

Except that in my opinion they didn't set them up to be morally gray at all. They set them up to look like they were trying to convince Shepard they weren't all bad but TIM never did anything constructive or helpful in the entire trilogy, he was only ever an antagonist. 

[wryterra]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

....No...It was dead. It was stated over and over agian to be dead. If you think it's obvious it's alive...Show me this proof..
Further more, The proto reaper was shown to indoctriante any way....Remeber the video in the cerberus base where they expline how they enhanceed there solder? They cleary say they took parts of the proto reaper and implaned them into  volenteers...These men soon here whispers after the implantation, clear symtoms of indoctriantion.....
So yes, dead reapers can still indoctrinate.

It was stated to be dead.... When we can clearly see it isn't. Did you somehow skip that part of ME2 where you destroy its power core? You know, everyone also states the Crucible was built by the protheans, when it wasn't.

The only things the terminals talk about are Lazarus, TIM's implants, EDI, and Kai Leng.

Dead Reapers can only indoctrinate if they have a power core to transmit the infra- and ultrasonic sounds and other various subliminal messages. Except, y'know, having an active core like the derelict Reaper makes it "alive" in the technical sense.

If the human Reaper is dead (inactive power core) how do Cerberus use its' power core to power their operations?

This is assuming the 'heart' is the power core. 

Either way Cerberus have brought parts of the human reaper online so parts of it are on life support even if it's supposed to be dead. 

Modifié par wryterra, 06 juin 2012 - 08:51 .

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

....No...It was dead. It was stated over and over agian to be dead. If you think it's obvious it's alive...Show me this proof..
Further more, The proto reaper was shown to indoctriante any way....Remeber the video in the cerberus base where they expline how they enhanceed there solder? They cleary say they took parts of the proto reaper and implaned them into  volenteers...These men soon here whispers after the implantation, clear symtoms of indoctriantion.....
So yes, dead reapers can still indoctrinate.

It was stated to be dead.... When we can clearly see it isn't. Did you somehow skip that part of ME2 where you destroy its power core? You know, everyone also states the Crucible was built by the protheans, when it wasn't.

The only things the terminals talk about are Lazarus, TIM's implants, EDI, and Kai Leng.

Dead Reapers can only indoctrinate if they have a power core to transmit the infra- and ultrasonic sounds and other various subliminal messages. Except, y'know, having an active core like the derelict Reaper makes it "alive" in the technical sense.

Because somethings heart is not beating does not mean it's alive. You clearly missed the part of the mission where you told that it's brain was blown out...That way it's dead. A reaper body just doesn't rot away. ...It's dead.

Also...
http://www.youtube.c...HqKD4qE#t=2015s
The mention of the proto reaper parts are in TIM'S IMPLATION VIDEOS...
And no, you got the info on indoctriantion wrong as well...Nothing in the lore states a core is need for the reaper to indoctriate.

[Starch]

a slight off topic: the derelict reaper reminds me of when TIM said to shep that when they found it, they also found the weapon that was used against the reaper, I wonder why BW did not bother working on a subplot regarding that weapon?

[o Ventus]

wryterra wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

....No...It was dead. It was stated over and over agian to be dead. If you think it's obvious it's alive...Show me this proof..
Further more, The proto reaper was shown to indoctriante any way....Remeber the video in the cerberus base where they expline how they enhanceed there solder? They cleary say they took parts of the proto reaper and implaned them into  volenteers...These men soon here whispers after the implantation, clear symtoms of indoctriantion.....
So yes, dead reapers can still indoctrinate.

It was stated to be dead.... When we can clearly see it isn't. Did you somehow skip that part of ME2 where you destroy its power core? You know, everyone also states the Crucible was built by the protheans, when it wasn't.

The only things the terminals talk about are Lazarus, TIM's implants, EDI, and Kai Leng.

Dead Reapers can only indoctrinate if they have a power core to transmit the infra- and ultrasonic sounds and other various subliminal messages. Except, y'know, having an active core like the derelict Reaper makes it "alive" in the technical sense.

If the human Reaper is dead (inactive power core) how do Cerberus use its' power core to power their operations?

This is assuming the 'heart' is the power core. 

Either way Cerberus have brought parts of the human reaper online so parts of it are on life support even if it's supposed to be dead. 

If Cerberus brought it online, then they likely meddled with whatever it is that does the indoctrinating. They know how it works, so it isn't much of a stretch.

And the base can also be powered by the brain of the Reaper, if you saved the base (Or was it the opposite?), so I'm willing to chalk that up to plot contrivance. It isn't remotely the first time.

[o Ventus]

Starch wrote...

a slight off topic: the derelict reaper reminds me of when TIM said to shep that when they found it, they also found the weapon that was used against the reaper, I wonder why BW did not bother working on a subplot regarding that weapon?

Well, the weapon was defunct.

Then again, the fact that they apparently didn't try to recreate that weapon just boggles my mind.

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

Because somethings heart is not beating does not mean it's alive. You clearly missed the part of the mission where you told that it's brain was blown out...That way it's dead. A reaper body just doesn't rot away. ...It's dead.

Also...
http://www.youtube.c...HqKD4qE#t=2015s
The mention of the proto reaper parts are in TIM'S IMPLATION VIDEOS...
And no, you got the info on indoctriantion wrong as well...Nothing in the lore states a core is need for the reaper to indoctriate.

A non-beating heart is a pretty good indicator that something is dead. How long have you survived without one?

The metal that the Reaper's hull is made of isn't what does the indoctrinating. Have you read any of the codex entries? Without a core (Or something else) to power the systems, how else is the Reaper transmitting the infra/ultrasonic messages?