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[grey_wind]

wryterra wrote...

winterbrood wrote...

 A lot of people on these forums, myself included, feel like Bioware committed character assassination on both Cerberus and TIM. After going to the trouble to set up this complex, morally gray organization in ME2, they throw everything away and decide to make Cerberus a comic book villain for the third installment. Nearly every action Cerberus takes in ME3 is contradictory to their established ideals and decisions, leaving them as little more than bad plot devices with guns. Did anyone look at Cerberus in ME3 and say "Yes! This is totally where I hoped Cerberus would be!" If so, why?

Except that in my opinion they didn't set them up to be morally gray at all. They set them up to look like they were trying to convince Shepard they weren't all bad but TIM never did anything constructive or helpful in the entire trilogy, he was only ever an antagonist. 

Yes, clearly bringing the hero back to life and giving him a ship with a crew and unlimited resources to stop the deaths of millions of people is a hallmark of the classic antagonist.
Wait....

[Starch]

o Ventus wrote...

Well, the weapon was defunct.

Then again, the fact that they apparently didn't try to recreate that weapon just boggles my mind.

yeah, it could have been cerby's ace in the hole.

[George Costanza]

I hated Cerberus in ME3. They were probably the worst part (aside from the ending).

Almost everything they did didn't make any kind of sense. For all intents and purposes it seemed like their only reason for acting was to get in Shepards way. I imagine if there'd been a mission to go to the shop for a tube of Pringles, Cerberus would have been there hiding behind the Doritos for an ambush.

It was a shame because the second game made them somewhat of a moral grey area. The Illusive Man presented interesting ideas, and while they were generally what I'd consider ethically dubious, it was nice to see that he had a positive end goal, even if his means of achieving it were extreme. In Mass Effect 3 The Illusive Man is a pantomime villain, and his troops a constant thorn in Shepards side, seemingly, only for the reason of giving him some target practise.

It was annoying, because on so many missions I'd be doing my thing, only for Cerberus to turn up to cause trouble. I'd be left wondering what on Earth they wanted this time, and how their plans could possibly tie in with what I was doing. Very annoying.

Shame.

[Reorte]

grey_wind wrote...

wryterra wrote...

winterbrood wrote...

 A lot of people on these forums, myself included, feel like Bioware committed character assassination on both Cerberus and TIM. After going to the trouble to set up this complex, morally gray organization in ME2, they throw everything away and decide to make Cerberus a comic book villain for the third installment. Nearly every action Cerberus takes in ME3 is contradictory to their established ideals and decisions, leaving them as little more than bad plot devices with guns. Did anyone look at Cerberus in ME3 and say "Yes! This is totally where I hoped Cerberus would be!" If so, why?

Except that in my opinion they didn't set them up to be morally gray at all. They set them up to look like they were trying to convince Shepard they weren't all bad but TIM never did anything constructive or helpful in the entire trilogy, he was only ever an antagonist. 

Yes, clearly bringing the hero back to life and giving him a ship with a crew and unlimited resources to stop the deaths of millions of people is a hallmark of the classic antagonist.
Wait....

For a while their goals and Shepard's happened to be the same, that's all.

[Zaalbar]

Cerberus kind of reminded me of the clone troopers from the Star Wars Prequels in ME3. The only thing missing is the Illusive Man executing Order 66.

[Helios969]

On topic.  No.  I thought TIM/Cerberus went exactly in the way they were established previously.  Any d-bag that has to hide behind holographic transmissions cannot be trusted.   The constant examples of unethical practices and TIM playing God doesn't endear him to humanity.  Outside the "Cerberus cheerleader," none of your companions (direct and indirect) trust the organization.  Had it been more divided, perhaps a different conclusion (story arc) could have been reached.

And it felt pretty good to bit by bit dismantle the organization throughout the story.  It would have been better had I caught up with TIM on his base (cowering in a broom closet) and shot him in the face right there.  Instead I got that goofy Kai Leng, (he's the undersized junior high kid that has a brown belt in Tae Kwon Do that thinks he's totally bad azz that the other kids laugh at.)  What a complete tool.

[shodiswe]

Actualy I think Cerberus worked out just fine... They were indoctrinated fools and TIM had been indoctrinated for the duration of the whole ME series.. The eyes gives him away and the series sugests it hapend very early.. Im guessing the Reapers wanted Cerberus to come into existance in the first place.

Cerberus was a creation by the reapers put into TIM's mind.. They were always there to some extent. Then at the end of ME3 TIM has that doctor perform the final procedures that makes TIM a 100% thrall that can't stop doing what he was doing on the Citadel... at the most you can convince him to shoot himself like you did with saren.

The reapers had been doign the same to the Proteans and TIM had indoctrination tech to just put some glasses on a wealthy industry owner to make him/her produce armor and weapons or ships for them. and do the same to get expendable cheap assaulttroopers and just about anythign TIM would need.. Because the reapers would allow it and because the reapers demanded it.
In the end Cerberus was a covert organization for the "Catalyst" and the reapers.
Their function was to weaken reaper defences and ensure swift painless invasions with a minimal of reaper losses.
They would sabotage alliances, sabotage defences, spread dissinformation, cause trouble that forcees the powers that be to divert resources to keep an eye out for cerberus instead of the reapers.
To counter cerberus instead of countering the reapers.

Cerberus was so good at what they were doing because the reapers helped them get to that position because they needed collaborators on the inside. Need might be a too strong a word but it made it easier.

TIM must have been pretty heavily indoctrinated if the reapers had managed to implant the skill to speak any language in the galaxy without a translator device. Seeing what they were up to in ME1 just confirms they were preparing for the reapers and gettign ready to do their part. Everythign else was just a front and something the indoctrinated told themselves to be able to live with themselves.

[malakim2099]

My only problem with Cerberus in the third game is just how many freaking resources they had. Seriously, they now have multiple space stations, their own FLEET, and an unlimited supply of mooks and equipment.

Really guys? Why did you need Shepard in the second game then?!?

[Helios969]

malakim2099 wrote...

My only problem with Cerberus in the third game is just how many freaking resources they had. Seriously, they now have multiple space stations, their own FLEET, and an unlimited supply of mooks and equipment.

Really guys? Why did you need Shepard in the second game then?!?

Well, despite those enormous resources, they were nothing more than a stopgap between Shep and TIM;)  Like all such stories the enemy is unstoppable by the galaxy, but get mowed down by the hero.  SW prequels the clone troopers were a totally bad azz fighting force, but by A New Hope they were all cross-eyed and couldn't shoot straight.

[KiwiQuiche]

They shoved Cerberus in the main story line way too much; I thought I was fighting the Reapers, not these ****** Indocrinated humans lead by an equally dumb-assed human supremacist. I was just all "Oh for fcuks sake, not again" everytime they showed up. They were simply an annoyance to me, not a threat.

And the whole "random, shadowy splinter group" to "from an organization with a few hundred" to a "TAKE ON THE CITADEL" crap was just retarded. Since when did they become the second empire? Even that Santuary bull couldn't fork 'em out that much.

But yet another fail from Bioware, so meh, I disliked how Cerberus was in ME3. They were a bunch of retards through the whole trilogy; all my Shepard's, even my Renegades, hated TIM and Cerberus. They saw through the smoke-screen of ME2.

[RAF1940]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

They shoved Cerberus in the main story line way too much; I thought I was fighting the Reapers, not these ****** Indocrinated humans lead by an equally dumb-assed human supremacist. I was just all "Oh for fcuks sake, not again" everytime they showed up. They were simply an annoyance to me, not a threat.

[t_i_e_]

RAF1940 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

They shoved Cerberus in the main story line way too much; I thought I was fighting the Reapers, not these ****** Indocrinated humans lead by an equally dumb-assed human supremacist. I was just all "Oh for fcuks sake, not again" everytime they showed up. They were simply an annoyance to me, not a threat.

Exactly how I feel. HOWEVER, I think that the war on Earth was suppose to be much more far reaching orginally and that a large amount of game play versus reapers was lost due to cut backs. Look at the early promotional video of the sniper on Earth! Did we not all think there was going to be a lot of action on Earth? Stupid EA rushed the game.

[ahandsomeshark]

I don't, but I don't like the direction they took with the most of the story outside of Tuchanka and Rannoch.

[Grimwick]

I think it was a bit of a cheap cop-out that Cerberus was indoctrinated. If they weren't indoctrinated and instead were doing this purely out of power-hungriness then it would have been far more interesting.

Also I think that Cerberus was too big of a deal compared with the reapers and it seemed in some parts that they were purely focused on annoying Shepard.

Other than that I did enjoy Cerberus in ME3 and although TIM lost his humanity he still had some amazing moments.

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Because somethings heart is not beating does not mean it's alive. You clearly missed the part of the mission where you told that it's brain was blown out...That way it's dead. A reaper body just doesn't rot away. ...It's dead.

Also...
http://www.youtube.c...HqKD4qE#t=2015s
The mention of the proto reaper parts are in TIM'S IMPLATION VIDEOS...
And no, you got the info on indoctriantion wrong as well...Nothing in the lore states a core is need for the reaper to indoctriate.

A non-beating heart is a pretty good indicator that something is dead. How long have you survived without one?

The metal that the Reaper's hull is made of isn't what does the indoctrinating. Have you read any of the codex entries? Without a core (Or something else) to power the systems, how else is the Reaper transmitting the infra/ultrasonic messages?

Again, doen't mean it's dead. As I said reaper bodies don't decay.

And it's is there body. Nothing in the lore says it's the core.

[dreman9999]

grey_wind wrote...

wryterra wrote...

winterbrood wrote...

 A lot of people on these forums, myself included, feel like Bioware committed character assassination on both Cerberus and TIM. After going to the trouble to set up this complex, morally gray organization in ME2, they throw everything away and decide to make Cerberus a comic book villain for the third installment. Nearly every action Cerberus takes in ME3 is contradictory to their established ideals and decisions, leaving them as little more than bad plot devices with guns. Did anyone look at Cerberus in ME3 and say "Yes! This is totally where I hoped Cerberus would be!" If so, why?

Except that in my opinion they didn't set them up to be morally gray at all. They set them up to look like they were trying to convince Shepard they weren't all bad but TIM never did anything constructive or helpful in the entire trilogy, he was only ever an antagonist. 

Yes, clearly bringing the hero back to life and giving him a ship with a crew and unlimited resources to stop the deaths of millions of people is a hallmark of the classic antagonist.
Wait....

Nope...Just the classic case of using the hero to further their agenda...Which they did...

[dreman9999]

malakim2099 wrote...

My only problem with Cerberus in the third game is just how many freaking resources they had. Seriously, they now have multiple space stations, their own FLEET, and an unlimited supply of mooks and equipment.

Really guys? Why did you need Shepard in the second game then?!?

If you listen to why they having now, it's clear why they did have it before..

[Goneaviking]

winterbrood wrote...

 A lot of people on these forums, myself included, feel like Bioware committed character assassination on both Cerberus and TIM. After going to the trouble to set up this complex, morally gray organization in ME2, they throw everything away and decide to make Cerberus a comic book villain for the third installment. Nearly every action Cerberus takes in ME3 is contradictory to their established ideals and decisions, leaving them as little more than bad plot devices with guns. Did anyone look at Cerberus in ME3 and say "Yes! This is totally where I hoped Cerberus would be!" If so, why?

All they did was confirm what I already believed to be the case.

Cerberus was never presented as anything other than the lesser of two evils. The only times you hear that Cerberus is anything other than a vicious and xenophobic organisation in the second game is from Cerberus sources, whenever you actually see the fruit of their labour it's twisted and unwholesome.

[MstrJedi Kyle]

In ME1 there were an evil shadow organization. In ME2 they were painted as a morally grey shadow organization. In ME3 they are back to being evil but randomly have a crazy huge military. That's the part I didn't understand.

[TimonPumba]

I was a Cerberus fanboy and would have killed my entire crew, if TIM told me to do so.
Back in the ME3 Demo I couldn't fire at my Cerberus bros, because I had no reason to kill them.
But in ME3 I found out, that TIM's evil twin JIM took over and turned Cerberus into a comic villain. Nice going JIM.

[Coachdongwiffle]

wow some of us are dumb fans. I am a huge TIM fan but he did exactly what I always thought he would. I knew he'd want the Reapers power to seize power because he thought it was the best way to keep humans on top. and everyone saying they didn't want him indoctrinated they would of prefer he was only doing it cause he truly thought it was what is best. That's exactly why he became indoctrinated he tried to seize power for selfish reasons and in doing so it backfired. Then there's the whole there morally gray because they brought the hero back to life? They brought Shepard back because they thought they needed to. It was always a case of TIM doing whatever was necessary for humanity. It's not like he saved Shepard because he cared about Shepard. His intentions were clear. The ends justify the means as long as it meant securing Cerberus dominance

[Colancio]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

No character-assassination, just too relevant. The game should have been more focused on the Reapers. Most of the Cerberus plot should have been moved to DLC.

So much this. In my opinion ME3 is forgetting that the real fight is against the reapers, you spend all the game fighting cerberus instead of the main threat :S

[MattFini]

I'm torn of the treatment of Cerberus in ME3.

On one hand ... it's not what *I* wanted from ME3. I was hoping that if you stayed loyal to Cerberus at the end of 2, you would still work for them when 3 begins. My Renegade FemShep really had no issue working with them, and would've continued to do so had she been given the choice.

But, as things played out in the ME3 that we got: I think it was fine. Cerberus was indoctrinated and the 11th hour was upon them. Might've been over-the-top, but I'm honestly okay with their progression.

[rekn2]

i knew cerb was evil, i just dodnt like how you fought hundreds of guys in what was supposed to be a secret organization. especially at tims base. you have to feed and house all those people there

[Robhuzz]

I just wish they hadn't turned Cerberus from a dangerous but ultimately insignificant terrorist group into a galactic superpower the size of the Sith Empire that wages wars on countless fronts all over the galaxy. That was just ridiculous...

Modifié par Robhuzz, 06 juin 2012 - 03:44 .