150 réponses à ce sujet

[Binary_Helix 1]

I felt like it was really out of place. Kaidan was the most mature character in the trilogy and he was firmly established as straight in ME1. Despite whatever he was originally designed for that's not what made the final cut. I felt like the sudden change in ME3 really cheapened him and detracted from his established character.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 06 juin 2012 - 10:53 .

[Edolix]

I'm not sure why they did it either. Other then to please a very small minority of the players, obviously. Though why they made one VS bisexual and kept the other one straight seems a little odd to me.

I remember reading figures that in around 75% of all the saved ME games, Ashley survived Virmire and Kaidan didn't. Mabye by making him gay, more people would want to save him...? I really don't know.

[SerriceIceDandy]

I'm replaying ME1 and I haven't come across any dialogue that confirms that he's straight. Yeah he had that thing for the girl on Jump Zero, but it doesn't necessarily rule him out as being bi. Weren't both VS initially intended to be bisexual anyway? I don't really see how this makes him any less mature.

[Kalyppso]

Play as FemShep, you'll never notice he's bisexual / homosexual.

Also, like the DA2 companions were "Hawke-sexual," I'd say he was Shepard-sexual.

[NRieh]

Watch out. There ARE people on this forum which would...to put it mild.. not agree with you, and it's hard to argue about this matter without breaking "no offence" forum rules. You'd probably be surprised about how many active posters in Kaidan thread play broShep. I was.

Their argument - it IS in ME1 client, it can be played with mods. Your (and,actually, mine too) argument - is that release does not have it, so - it's out of (non-head)canon. No other arguments avalible. No way any of sides can change one's mind, I think. I dealt with it (headcanoned for my FemShep), so I just don't care much now. Though it was shocking to find out first, yes.

Though why they made one VS bisexual and kept the other one straight seems a little odd to me.

Because there are more then enough optins for s\\s FemShep already? So adding another one would just be TOO much?..I'd actually say that there are only two for straight one, one of which is Kaidan (may be dead and..well, you know) and another is Garrus(must be imported from ME2, and...well..you know..).

[wright1978]

I don't have an issue with him being Bi. However i don't think it was executed terribly well. My straight Shep was his buddy and all of a sudden Kaidan suddenly started talking like he expected more and i had to shut him down.

[MegaBadExample]

DrunkShepardFTW wrote...

I'm replaying ME1 and I haven't come across any dialogue that confirms that he's straight. Yeah he had that thing for the girl on Jump Zero, but it doesn't necessarily rule him out as being bi. Weren't both VS initially intended to be bisexual anyway? I don't really see how this makes him any less mature.

*Sigh* I don't know why so many people think that. Did you guys not read the actual post? Exact words, "It was never part of the plan." - that's what they said.

Bioware only briefly considered it (like all characters, I imagine) once their lines were recorded. And the only reason those lines were recorded for both genders is because it saved time sorting, so both the VA's read from the same ME script.

In the end, they quickly decided not to go with it, and stick with their original plan for the characters.

It's a different writing team in now, that worked on ME3. I don't know why they suddenly decided to turn Kaidan bisexual for the end.

[NRieh]

I haven't come across any dialogue that confirms that he's straight.

A guy, who luvs femshep and does not show direct interest in broshep (unless hacked) seems pretty straight for me...and don't say he was just too shy for that.

[Icinix]

Whole think sucks quite frankly.

Its even worse because they made Ashley sexier.

There are a lot of things in ME3 that I just don't understand why they went the way they did.

[SolidBeast]

Nrieh wrote...
Their argument - it IS in ME1 client, it can be played with mods. Your (and,actually, mine too) argument - is that release does not have it, so - it's out of (non-head)canon. No other arguments avalible. No way any of sides can change one's mind, I think. I dealt with it (headcanoned for my FemShep), so I just don't care much now. Though it was shocking to find out first, yes. 

No.

1. - it was only briefly considered, never actually implemented. The lines that are there are a result of both VAs reading off the same script.
2. - No other arguments available? So if someone does not explicitly say "btw, (this doesn't have any relevance to our relationship but) I like men.", they're automatically straight? Cause, of course, I go around announcing my sexuality when no one asks me all the time. Sure, OUT of the game universe, the s/s romance for Kaidan was never intended in ME1. IN the game universe, he just never said he was bisexual for reasons known only to him.
"But you have to headcanon it" - But we have to headcanon A LOT of things in ME3...and *this* is what you people choose to **** about? Something that actually doesn't take from a character or diminish them in any way but to your minds that apparently cannot fathom someone liking both genders and not announcing it right away, even when there's no need.

[NRieh]

Sure, OUT of the game universe, the s/s romance for Kaidan was never intended in ME1. IN the game universe, he just never said he was bisexual for reasons known only to him.

Folowing your logic - someone who did NOT say directly wether he is a bisexual or not, but acts as straight IS bisexual? I can't remember Anderson, Adams or Joker speaking of their preferences - should we consider them Bi (but shy) as well?

From my (and Okkam's) logic - if someone looks staight and acts straight..he is, well, straight.

[Icinix]

Nrieh wrote...

Sure, OUT of the game universe, the s/s romance for Kaidan was never intended in ME1. IN the game universe, he just never said he was bisexual for reasons known only to him.

Folowing your logic - someone who did NOT say directly wether he is a bisexual or not, but acts as straight IS bisexual? I can't remember Anderson, Adams or Joker speaking of their preferences - should we consider them Bi (but shy) as well?

From my (and Okkam's) logic - if someone looks staight and acts straight..he is, well, straight.

In Dragon Age 2 - and accordingly to interviews with David Gaider. This kind of mentality is probably going to be in future BioWare games.

The sexuality of a character is determined by the players play through.

I actually think its a backwards step in game development, because one of the awesome things about role playing games to me is talking to people about the different outcomes involving the same characters.

Our avatar is different in all of our gamers, but the world and our characters are not and we can discuss and talk about how our actions altered the world and the people within the rules of the world.

Having something such as their sexuality altered based on the player prevents those characters being immutable, thus destroying the different outcomes and stories in the same world.

Does that make sense? Anyway - I prefer my non player characters to be set. Whatever that may be. If Kaiden was only interested in Women in ME1 - then thats what he should be.  Can you see Mass Effect 4 coming out and Traynor suddenly interested in Men?

[ScotGaymer]

I don't see why Kaidan "coming out" in ME3 is any more out of place than the Garrus and Tali romances in ME2? Or why its seemingly more offensive or unbelievable...

They made Kaidan bisexual because they commited to giving BroShep a male LI, and Kaidan seemed to me to be the "best" option for it of the companions they decided to include. I mean honestly, Kaidan in ME1 seemed pretty "open" to me - maybe it was just my perspective as a gay guy but he genuinely seemed to actively flirt with ManShep and I was honestly surprised when I realised he wasn't an LI (especially since Bioware has made a habit of being inclusive of romances for a long long time).
As a character he is already pretty unassuming, inoffensive, and metrosexual. It isn;t a great leap to have him come out.

Think about it, could you imagine the rage that would have poured out of the fan base had they made the MeatHead Vega the gay LI? Dear god the very foundations of the BSN woulda shook.

Nrieh wrote...

Sure, OUT of
the game universe, the s/s romance for Kaidan was never intended in ME1.
IN the game universe, he just never said he was bisexual for reasons
known only to him.

Folowing your logic - someone who did
NOT say directly wether he is a bisexual or not, but acts as straight
IS bisexual? I can't remember Anderson, Adams or Joker speaking of
their preferences - should we consider them Bi (but shy) as well?

From my (and Okkam's) logic - if someone looks staight and acts straight..he is, well, straight.

The funny thing is you don't actually realise how horribly offensive and judgemental you sound right there.

Seriously.

Someone who is straight acting does not necessarily make them straight. Example:

Does this guy linked look "gay"? He's a proper butch military dude proposing to his BOYFRIEND via video from Iraq or wherever he is stationed. He is gay and loves a man, and wants to marry said man, but hes a big butch fella.
By your horribly offensive logic he should be straight and banging girls. 

Straight people come in all stripes, sizes, and colours. So too do bisexuals, and so too do homosexuals.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 06 juin 2012 - 12:09 .

[SavageNoble]

Something that will never even happen in your own game bothers you? Seriously? It's not like he's going to go screw random men if your FemShep is romancing him. :|

I honestly will never understand why some people think just because a character swings both ways, it somehow cheapens them or makes them fail as a character.

Like it or not, Kaidan (also Ashley) was originally intended to be a bisexual romance option in Mass Effect 1. Don't believe me? Here's video evidence:  http://www.youtube.c...h?v=lPMOlEfhWGE

[Hvlukas]

 I simply do not understand knowing that other players who you'll never meet or talk to have the option to play Kaiden as bi/gay in any way can make your experience of the character any less.

Kaiden in ME3 was the least norm breaking character.. At NO point in the game (well, in the entire franchise too) does he ever hint that he'd be willing to love a man. I actually think that's slightly offensive to bi/******-sexuals, keeping them safe and secretly away from the fragile gaze of the "normal people". But I can live with it, because .. I'm kinda used to that sort of thing.

What I read in this thread is: I don't like that strangers can play the game differently. Take away their choices, so I can be happy again.

Modifié par Hvlukas, 06 juin 2012 - 12:00 .

[Theodoro]

What I dislike as a whole is that video games must always make this type of men gay or bisexual. Just because a man is sensitive, and not always outspoken or "macho", he must immediately be either gay or bisexual in any form of medium. Kaidan being straight despite all that was something unique and it proved that sexuality of such people is not in any way related to their personality. And they had to throw it away by saying that he was always bisexual.

[MacCready]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

I felt like it was really out of place. Kaidan was the most mature character in the trilogy and he was firmly established as straight in ME1. Despite whatever he was originally designed for that's not what made the final cut. I felt like the sudden change in ME3 really cheapened him and detracted from his established character.

I like how you're essentially implying that homosexuality is immature and cheap.

[SolidBeast]

Nrieh wrote...

Sure, OUT of the game universe, the s/s romance for Kaidan was never intended in ME1. IN the game universe, he just never said he was bisexual for reasons known only to him.

Folowing your logic - someone who did NOT say directly wether he is a bisexual or not, but acts as straight IS bisexual?

No, he MAY BE bisexual. Do you notice the difference? Obviously not, and you are obviously not even able to comprehend such a possibility, otherwise you would not feel so put off by Kaidan realizing his feelings for male Shepard (note: in manShep's universe, femShep never existed, therefore, it is completely irrelevant that Kaidan spoke of his feelings to her earlier, due to - once again - OUT OF UNIVERSE reasons).

I can't remember Anderson, Adams or Joker speaking of their preferences - should we consider them Bi (but shy) as well?

By *your* logic, that should make Anderson completely asexual. Notice: people don't always express or announce every aspect of their character, for various reasons. Sometimes it's just not needed.

[OlympusMons423]

We have a choice here. Kaiden in my universe is really crazy about the fem-Shepard. My fem-Shepard is a pretty easy on the eyes Asian woman.

Now you usually would not get this gay uproar over the girl on girl stuff, which is also same sex relationships. It can be both male fantasy while being politically correct too. Its still your choice to go there or not.... I just wish my fem-Shep took off her uniform before she got into the shower....and Traynor, lose the bra and panties, you're taking a shower dummy.

They do tend to play up the girl on girl thing more as male fantasy though. If they were more serious that whole Traynor fem-Sheopard thing could have been written with the same respect and hreat the Tali male Shepard got

Again we have a choice. I would agree with the concept that only a few character might be gay or bi. Myself I would have rather had other relationships being worked on in addition at the cost of one of the gay possible relationships...(Kasumi please)....but hey what the hey.

[Hvlukas]

Theodoro wrote...

What I dislike as a whole is that video games must always make this type of men gay or bisexual. Just because a man is sensitive, and not always outspoken or "macho", he must immediately be either gay or bisexual in any form of medium. Kaidan being straight despite all that was something unique and it proved that sexuality of such people is not in any way related to their personality. And they had to throw it away by saying that he was always bisexual.

The anwser to that is quite shockingly boring: Sexuality doesn't change who people are. It only affects the one in their lives whom they call "Loved one".

Any character in Mass Effect could be gay. It wouldn't change anything. 

Modifié par Hvlukas, 06 juin 2012 - 12:13 .

[Icinix]

MacCready wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

I felt like it was really out of place. Kaidan was the most mature character in the trilogy and he was firmly established as straight in ME1. Despite whatever he was originally designed for that's not what made the final cut. I felt like the sudden change in ME3 really cheapened him and detracted from his established character.

I like how you're essentially implying that homosexuality is immature and cheap.

The change in Kaiden is just as cheap as making Ashley sexier.

My issue, is, and always will be - keeping characters the same.

You can introduce as many new straight, homosexual, monogendered, tall, short, fat, thin, angry, friendly characters as you want.

Just don't change existing characters.

[Theodoro]

Hvlukas wrote...

Theodoro wrote...

What I dislike as a whole is that video games must always make this type of men gay or bisexual. Just because a man is sensitive, and not always outspoken or "macho", he must immediately be either gay or bisexual in any form of medium. Kaidan being straight despite all that was something unique and it proved that sexuality of such people is not in any way related to their personality. And they had to throw it away by saying that he was always bisexual.

The anwser to that is quite shockingly boring: Sexuality doesn't change who people are. It only affects the one in their lives whom they call "Loved one".

Any character in Mass Effect could be gay. It wouldn't chance anything. 

Yes, I agree, don't get me wrong - I have nothing against that, and you're completely right.

What I'm trying to say is that I've yet to come across one example of such a man in video games - and Kaidan was that man until they decided to retcon him.

[SavageNoble]

Icinix wrote...

MacCready wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

I felt like it was really out of place. Kaidan was the most mature character in the trilogy and he was firmly established as straight in ME1. Despite whatever he was originally designed for that's not what made the final cut. I felt like the sudden change in ME3 really cheapened him and detracted from his established character.

I like how you're essentially implying that homosexuality is immature and cheap.

The change in Kaiden is just as cheap as making Ashley sexier.

My issue, is, and always will be - keeping characters the same.

You can introduce as many new straight, homosexual, monogendered, tall, short, fat, thin, angry, friendly characters as you want.

Just don't change existing characters.

Right, because we all know people are static and unchanging things, their views, thoughts and preferences never alternate. Oh, and of course, upon first meeting someone they quickly reveal every tiny detail about themselves for your leisure. 

[TheDonk95]

Me too. It was awkward talking to him in ME3 knowing he suddenly turned bisexual.. He might suprise kiss me or something..