497 réponses à ce sujet

[SanguineRose]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Actually, I think the infiltrator should be re-organized in-line with many of the other classes with awesome powers by nixing recharge speed. Tactical Cloak has a 25% Sniper Bonus upgrade. Some infiltrators, like the Quarian Male, won't get anything past that because they are meant for group benefit with tactical scan. Some infiltrators will get an ability, we'll call it overclock, that drops their recharge rate by 60% (same as blade armor, etc.) but offer a 75% damage bonus.

So, an infiltrator will have to switch between sniper mode and stealth mode requiring more caution and on the fly movements.

Actually, it's 40%.

Modifié par SanguineRose, 06 juin 2012 - 09:17 .

[Ramsutin]

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Dmg nerf wouldn't be enough. It doesn't address the problem of infiltrators never pulling aggro and using teammates as decoys. A longer cooldown as well would force them to fight enemies outside of cloak somewhat alleviating the problem.

Please explain how longer cooldown is going to help with 250/750 (health/shield) Inf to stay alive when Primes will do that damage nearly instantly and Phantoms will do that accross the map. What good is a dead inf to the team?

You mean that the most survivable class in the game currently will now only be as survivable as a 3000 hp krogan, regenerating health vorcha, or badass batarian?  Oh the horror!!!  They will have to settle for only having the best dmg output in the game now!!

No, soldier with AR can shoot 3 shots in the same time as inf can (with Javelin at least)

Lets calculate, shall we?:
GI (max hunter for damage and TC for sniper damage)
-Javelin III does 3018.49 damage, reload to do again 3.87 seconds
Soldier with AR
- Javelin III does 2148.3 damage, AR lasts 6,8 seconds, 3 shots can be fired during that time

so soldier does 6444,9 damage where inf does 5303,8067183462532299741602067183 in the same time.

[WizenSlinky0]

SanguineRose wrote...

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Actually, I think the infiltrator should be re-organized in-line with many of the other classes with awesome powers by nixing recharge speed. Tactical Cloak has a 25% Sniper Bonus upgrade. Some infiltrators, like the Quarian Male, won't get anything past that because they are meant for group benefit with tactical scan. Some infiltrators will get an ability, we'll call it overclock, that drops their recharge rate by 60% (same as blade armor, etc.) but offer a 75% damage bonus.

So, an infiltrator will have to switch between sniper mode and stealth mode requiring more caution and on the fly movements.

Actually, it's 40%.

Eh, I know it is. I was talking about the change you could make. I was aiming for a maximum of 100% extra damage. I like even numbers.

[Yajuu Omoi]

LULZferBAKON wrote...

codename2o2 wrote...

For Christ's sake, people are STILL going on about TC? Really?

Why don't we just get rid of AR on human soldiers, being able to have damage reduction while have your own damage increase AND restore your shields is totally OP.

How about ED on salarians? Drain shields while also restoring your own and completely crippling a geth? OP

What about Rage on Krogans? Being able to deal insane amounts of melee damage in combination with all the other protective powers they have like TA and barrier? over-to-the-powered I say!

Oh, oh, and Biotic charge for all vanguards? Instantly restoring your shields while also dealing damage and traveling any distance to either deal more damage, get to objectives quicker or revive another teammate? Get real, OP

Seriously, this is what all you idiots sound like to me. Bioware isn't ruining MP, you guys are.

Tactical Cloak is a 140% damage bonus on the strongest and most accurate weapons in the game, which draws aggro away from Infiltrators thus giving them better survivability.

Have you PLAYED as an infil recently? or even in the past month?

TC does NOT hide you from ANY enemy anymore. i've had reg troops shooting at me, i get out of their line of sight, they stop, i claok, walk out around a corner and BANG phantom takes out my shields and trooper takes me out. i fall over...STILL CLOAKED!

[RiouHotaru]

Tactical Cloak is fine as is. The scoreboard doesn't mean anything, all the exp is distributed evenly whether through a kill or an assist.

If anything, the guns need nerfing, not the ability.

[Ramsutin]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

Quickscoping CAN be done on PC but it is not good thing to do. It is wasting ammo. Many times have I qs:ed  a husk with Javelin only to notice stagger and 1 bar off. It CAN be usefull but I'd rather aim properly even in close range.

QSing was only one part of our discussion, and I think we got derailed by it.

As a PC player, do you buy his argument that the tunnel vision created by being a Sniper is a significant weakness to the Infiltrator class because it makes it easier for enemies to sneak up on them?

No tunnel vision with me. Neveer seen inf being snuk up to. I carry GPSMG so I can take out mobs closing in.

[deadpixel92]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

robarcool wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

/SIGNED-IN-BLOOD

Troll blood.

Reported for the third time today. Enjoy your ban.

Stop calling people trolls just because you don't agree with them. What are you 12?

Ha! i have that same question for you, also the OP is clearly trolling and you supporting him is illogical. Report me kid.

[darkblade]

See all of this is because bioware is somewhat ignorant when it comes to weapons and RPG + shooter play.

Most of this stuff doesnt need "nerfing" there just needs to be more intricacies to the system.

Alot of this animosity also stems from the Infiltrator being a sniper and only a sniper mentality (which just can't be applied here all the maps are too small, there are too many enemies, and not enough actual vantage points, being a real sniper isnt a real option in this game. If you play BF you know what i mean).

What has been proposed is by far one of the worst idea's it just makes the class less desirable to play. Having a sorry class as an excuse to buff weapons isn't good at all. Its down right stupid actually.

Thats the easy way out, why give bioware money to take shortcuts? Why nerf herd when you could be spending time petitioning for balance?

Bioware has shown in this game that they can have certain races and classes lean towards certain playstyles even if they have THE SAME POWER AS ANOTHER RACE IN THE SAME class.

We also know that they are free to give weapons whatever properties they want.

We know krogan charge isnt the same as the regular charge, and everyones final weight reduction isnt the same why arent we asking for more of that instead of hating on classes?

- would it really be so hard to re tweak what weapons are allowed to get bonus' from certain buffs ie re-tweaking their properties?
- would it really be so hard to specialize a few evolutions like they did with charge?
- would it really be so hard to specialize the passives for the classes?
- would it really be so hard give each race class 2-3 weapons that they were really good with?

Stop being one dimensional.

-The kyrasea doesnt need a nerf just dont let explosive weapons use tac cloaks 6th evo..

-Tac cloak doesnt need a nerf, just limit its initial 2 damage buffs to the weapons that that races passive buffs and powers and makes its final evo an all around weapons buff. you wouldnt even have to change the values.

Think about what s being asked.

- Say they grind Tac cloaks damage into the ground and give you full invisibility. you know what that means?

New patch notes: 2.06 

+Tactical cloak damage bonus reduced from 50% to 15%
+ Sniper weapon evolution changed to be only headshots.

to keep enemies as a threat to the infiltrator, more mobs will be given stealth sight and better stealth sight at that with more interaction between units probably.

- so congratulations you just got the geth buffed again! They have just gained
+ Hunters with absolute stealth sight (because of ****** poor damage you can kill them all before you get cornered) and can call you out.
+ Prime combat drones that not only have absolute stealth sight, but they can target you for other units around itself.
+ And stealth sight Rocket Troopers.

-Reapers have been buffed with
+ Absolute stealth sight marauders who now grant stealth sight to any enemy they buff with armor.
+ Stealth sight Ravengers
+ and just for giggles they add Praetorians or scions with stealth sight.

-Cerberus has been buffed with.
+ Centurions that actually act like field commanders (shock!) by having stealth sight and ordering grenade barrages on you location.
+ Phantoms with strealth sight
+ Atlas with stealth sight
+ and nemesis with stealth sight

^ beautiful aint it?
Have fun with that invisibility.

whoever wants it.

Modifié par darkblade, 06 juin 2012 - 09:26 .

[Gockey]

SanguineRose wrote...

Fortack wrote...


I am a little confused here. Do you play with people who are way below your skill all the time?

It's quite simple actually. When 4 equally skilled people play a match (1 inf, 3 other classes) the one playing Infiltrator is going to have the highest score 9/10 times. So it does matter what class one is playing which is what you've denied.

In my experience, more like 3/10 times.

Then your doing it wrong.  I know that looks like a attack, but it's fact.  Ceteris paribus, an Infiltrator will always top the boards.  It's not an argument.

[LULZferBAKON]

codename2o2 wrote...

LULZferBAKON wrote...

codename2o2 wrote...

LULZferBAKON wrote...

codename2o2 wrote...

For Christ's sake, people are STILL going on about TC? Really?

Why don't we just get rid of AR on human soldiers, being able to have damage reduction while have your own damage increase AND restore your shields is totally OP.

How about ED on salarians? Drain shields while also restoring your own and completely crippling a geth? OP

What about Rage on Krogans? Being able to deal insane amounts of melee damage in combination with all the other protective powers they have like TA and barrier? over-to-the-powered I say!

Oh, oh, and Biotic charge for all vanguards? Instantly restoring your shields while also dealing damage and traveling any distance to either deal more damage, get to objectives quicker or revive another teammate? Get real, OP

Seriously, this is what all you idiots sound like to me. Bioware isn't ruining MP, you guys are.

Tactical Cloak is a 140% damage bonus on the strongest and most accurate weapons in the game, which draws aggro away from Infiltrators thus giving them better survivability.

News flash: every single class can survive just fine if they're played right and specced right. And last I checked, the tactical cloak bonus in damage lasts for... 1.5 seconds? Enough to get out one clip on my valiant. AR gives out what, 70% damage boost over 6 or so seconds? learn to do math

Oh yes,  just one clip, because your cloak totally isn't recharged by the time you finish reloading.  Oh wait, it is.

And AR doesn't recharge? And no other class can reload cancel? And other classes can't spec for lighter weapons and shorter recharge times? edit: OH and Ar totally doesn't instantly reload your clip, right?

Adrenaline rush suffers from your loadout being overweight, tactical cloak gets a free exempt as long as you shoot right away.  I view reload cancel as an exploit, I don't care who says what.  And again, tactical cloak gets an exempt, other classes have to actually limit what they carry.  And yes AR does reload the clip instantly, but you get half the damage bonus.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Tactical Cloak is fine as is. The scoreboard doesn't mean anything, all the exp is distributed evenly whether through a kill or an assist.

If anything, the guns need nerfing, not the ability.

Well, the scoreboard means A LOT to mediocre tac cloak snipers.  The problem with tac cloak is it enables ho-hum players to rack up a good score, and thus they all of a sudden assume they're God's gift to multiplayer and are elevating the team with their presence alone.  These players tend not to care about team play, doing objectives, tactics...really anything that doesn't involve amassing a giant kill count.  These types of players really can ruin teams.

[DiebytheSword]

darkblade wrote...

See all of this is because bioware is somewhat ignorant when it comes to weapons and RPG + shooter play.

Most of this stuff doesnt need "nerfing" there just needs to be more intricacies to the system.

Alot of this animosity also stems from the Infiltrator being a sniper and only a sniper mentality (which just can't be applied here all the maps are too small, there are too many enemies, and not enough actual vantage points, being a real sniper isnt a real option in this game. If you play BF you know what i mean).

What has been proposed is by far one of the worst idea's it just makes the class less desirable to play. Having a sorry class as an excuse to buff weapons isn't good at all. Its down right stupid actually.

Thats the easy way out, why give bioware money to take shortcuts? Why nerf herd when you could be spending time petitioning for balance?

Bioware has shown in this game that they can have certain races and classes lean towards certain playstyles even if they have THE SAME POWER AS ANOTHER RACE IN THE SAME class.

We also know that they are free to give weapons whatever properties they want.

We know krogan charge isnt the same as the regular charge, and everyones final weight reduction isnt the same why arent we asking for more of that instead of hating on classes?

- would it really be so hard to re tweak what weapons are allowed to get bonus' from certain buffs ie re-tweaking their properties?
- would it really be so hard to specialize a few evolutions like they did with charge?
- would it really be so hard to specialize the passives for the classes?
- would it really be so hard give each race class 2-3 weapons that they were really good with?

Stop being one dimensional.

-The kyrasea doesnt need a nerf just dont let explosive weapons use tac cloaks 6th evo..

-Tac cloak doesnt need a nerf, just limit its initial 2 damage buffs to the weapons that that races passive buffs and powers and makes its final evo an all around weapons buff. you wouldnt even have to change the values.

Think about what s being asked.

- Say they grind Tac cloaks damage into the ground and give you full invisibility. you know what that means?

to keep enemies as a threat to the infiltrator, more mobs will be given stealth sight and better stealth sight at that with more interaction between units probably.

- so congratulations you just got the geth buffed again! They have just gained
+ Hunters with absolute stealth sight (because of ****** poor damage you can kill them all before you get cornered) and can call you out.
+ Prime combat drones that not only have absolute stealth sight, but they can target you for other units around itself.
+ And stealth sight Rocket Troopers.

-Reapers have been buffed with
+ Absolute stealth sight marauders who now grant stealth sight to any enemy they buff with armor.
+ Stealth sight Ravengers
+ and just for giggles they add Praetorians or scions with stealth sight.

-Cerberus has been buffed with.
+ Centurions that actually act like field commanders (shock!) by having stealth sight and ordering grenade barrages on you location.
+ Phantoms with strealth sight
+ Atlas with stealth sight
+ and nemesis with stealth sight

Have fun with that invisibility.

Very well said!

[Fortack]

SanguineRose wrote...

In my experience, more like 3/10 times.

Then you're not playing with people who are on the same level of skill you are. I again refer to the speedruns b/c both solo and team records are firmly in the hands of Infiltrators. Please go and ask any of those players if they can get close or beat those times with another class.

It's a simple fact that the Infiltrator is the most powerful class in MP. Anyone who denies that is either trolling or has no clue what they're talking about. They are not godlike like some people claim, but it wouldn't hurt the game as a whole when the difference between Infiltrators and the rest would get smaller.

[SanguineRose]

Gockey wrote...

SanguineRose wrote...

Fortack wrote...


I am a little confused here. Do you play with people who are way below your skill all the time?

It's quite simple actually. When 4 equally skilled people play a match (1 inf, 3 other classes) the one playing Infiltrator is going to have the highest score 9/10 times. So it does matter what class one is playing which is what you've denied.

In my experience, more like 3/10 times.

Then your doing it wrong.  I know that looks like a attack, but it's fact.  Ceteris paribus, an Infiltrator will always top the boards.  It's not an argument.

I'm not the one being an Inf in those cases ^^ I'm being the one putting that Inf in their place.

[Ramsutin]

LULZferBAKON wrote...

Adrenaline rush suffers from your loadout being overweight, tactical cloak gets a free exempt as long as you shoot right away.  I view reload cancel as an exploit, I don't care who says what.  And again, tactical cloak gets an exempt, other classes have to actually limit what they carry.  And yes AR does reload the clip instantly, but you get half the damage bonus.

Did you not see my math?

[SanguineRose]

Fortack wrote...

SanguineRose wrote...

In my experience, more like 3/10 times.

Then you're not playing with people who are on the same level of skill you are. I again refer to the speedruns b/c both solo and team records are firmly in the hands of Infiltrators. Please go and ask any of those players if they can get close or beat those times with another class.

It's a simple fact that the Infiltrator is the most powerful class in MP. Anyone who denies that is either trolling or has no clue what they're talking about. They are not godlike like some people claim, but it wouldn't hurt the game as a whole when the difference between Infiltrators and the rest would get smaller.

I'm yet to see any sufficient evidence to argue your claim as fact, sir.

[Hakuthehedgehog]

Couldn't we just reduce the base weapon damage bonus from TC to 20% (then the 40% damage evolution would be added) and increase the sniper rifle damage bonus do 60%? I think that would make the class still viable and good.

TC allows for:
Survivability
Free use of a power with damage bonus
Objective capping and reviving
Greater weapon damage and much greater sniper damage.

This change would make the infiltrator still the king of the snipers, but not as good with other weapons, which IMO should be role of the soldiers.

As it is, infiltrators make this game incredibly easy: if we buffed all the other classes to their level, the game wouldn't be challenging. So, IMO, a slight nerf, (not a big one like the OP is suggesting) wouldn't be that bad.

[RiouHotaru]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Tactical Cloak is fine as is. The scoreboard doesn't mean anything, all the exp is distributed evenly whether through a kill or an assist.

If anything, the guns need nerfing, not the ability.

Well, the scoreboard means A LOT to mediocre tac cloak snipers.  The problem with tac cloak is it enables ho-hum players to rack up a good score, and thus they all of a sudden assume they're God's gift to multiplayer and are elevating the team with their presence alone.  These players tend not to care about team play, doing objectives, tactics...really anything that doesn't involve amassing a giant kill count.  These types of players really can ruin teams.

So?  I've done it myself.  During hack objectives I'll take my Human Infiltrator and look for enemies to kill so the spawn doesn't overwhelm my friends on the objective.  I'll get an early hit in on the boss mobs that spawn on higher difficulties.

The scoreboard is utterly meaningless overall.

[DiebytheSword]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Tactical Cloak is fine as is. The scoreboard doesn't mean anything, all the exp is distributed evenly whether through a kill or an assist.

If anything, the guns need nerfing, not the ability.

Well, the scoreboard means A LOT to mediocre tac cloak snipers.  The problem with tac cloak is it enables ho-hum players to rack up a good score, and thus they all of a sudden assume they're God's gift to multiplayer and are elevating the team with their presence alone.  These players tend not to care about team play, doing objectives, tactics...really anything that doesn't involve amassing a giant kill count.  These types of players really can ruin teams.

And I totally agree with this, but then the problem is with exploitive players, not the ability you seek to nerf.  You want to punish anyone who picks an infiltrator, to take them down a peg.  There are plenty of good infiltrators out there who don't do any of these things.

The MP community needs to be cultivated properly in here, a lot of people plaing MP play some other FPS game, and I'm sure that helps them out.  But the RPGers are having a hard time adjusting to this.  I'm not sure where all the llamas come from, but there is no reason to break a class.

If you nerf TC, you will need to buff infiltrators somewhere else significantly.  Nerfing them to the ground will not provide balance, it will just make another imbalance in a system that has them all over the place.

Worse still, there are bugged classes that need to be fixed before Infiltrator gets nerfed.

Kroguard and Phoenix classes need a lot of fixing.

[Ramsutin]

Hakuthehedgehog wrote...


Free use of a power with damage bonus/much greater sniper damage
Objective capping and reviving

FTFY

[heybigmoney]

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Dmg nerf wouldn't be enough. It doesn't address the problem of infiltrators never pulling aggro and using teammates as decoys. A longer cooldown as well would force them to fight enemies outside of cloak somewhat alleviating the problem.

Please explain how longer cooldown is going to help with 250/750 (health/shield) Inf to stay alive when Primes will do that damage nearly instantly and Phantoms will do that accross the map. What good is a dead inf to the team?

You mean that the most survivable class in the game currently will now only be as survivable as a 3000 hp krogan, regenerating health vorcha, or badass batarian?  Oh the horror!!!  They will have to settle for only having the best dmg output in the game now!!

No, soldier with AR can shoot 3 shots in the same time as inf can (with Javelin at least)

Lets calculate, shall we?:
GI (max hunter for damage and TC for sniper damage)
-Javelin III does 3018.49 damage, reload to do again 3.87 seconds
Soldier with AR
- Javelin III does 2148.3 damage, AR lasts 6,8 seconds, 3 shots can be fired during that time

so soldier does 6444,9 damage where inf does 5303,8067183462532299741602067183 in the same time.

Infiltrators have the best dmg output period.  Uninterrupted sustained fire for full duration of adrenaline rush for soldiers rarely happens in game on gold.

[Yajuu Omoi]

Gockey wrote...

SanguineRose wrote...

Fortack wrote...


I am a little confused here. Do you play with people who are way below your skill all the time?

It's quite simple actually. When 4 equally skilled people play a match (1 inf, 3 other classes) the one playing Infiltrator is going to have the highest score 9/10 times. So it does matter what class one is playing which is what you've denied.

In my experience, more like 3/10 times.

Then your doing it wrong.  I know that looks like a attack, but it's fact.  Ceteris paribus, an Infiltrator will always top the boards.  It's not an argument.

I play infil almost constantly/ And i've played matches where the 4 of us are ALL infils, just for the heck of it. we all did really well but i out shot them by over 30K.
Then we went to different classes...cept me cuz my only lvl20 was my infil.
we had

me, 20 MQI
a 20 AA
a 16 HV
and a 19 GE

the ONLY person i outscoed was the HV. cuz i'd kill things on the other side of the map before he could novecharge them.

Infils are NOT overpowered. the new sniper is. period. that THING as an abonination and must go away.

[Yajuu Omoi]

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Dmg nerf wouldn't be enough. It doesn't address the problem of infiltrators never pulling aggro and using teammates as decoys. A longer cooldown as well would force them to fight enemies outside of cloak somewhat alleviating the problem.

Please explain how longer cooldown is going to help with 250/750 (health/shield) Inf to stay alive when Primes will do that damage nearly instantly and Phantoms will do that accross the map. What good is a dead inf to the team?

You mean that the most survivable class in the game currently will now only be as survivable as a 3000 hp krogan, regenerating health vorcha, or badass batarian?  Oh the horror!!!  They will have to settle for only having the best dmg output in the game now!!

No, soldier with AR can shoot 3 shots in the same time as inf can (with Javelin at least)

Lets calculate, shall we?:
GI (max hunter for damage and TC for sniper damage)
-Javelin III does 3018.49 damage, reload to do again 3.87 seconds
Soldier with AR
- Javelin III does 2148.3 damage, AR lasts 6,8 seconds, 3 shots can be fired during that time

so soldier does 6444,9 damage where inf does 5303,8067183462532299741602067183 in the same time.

Infiltrators have the best dmg output period.  Uninterrupted sustained fire for full duration of adrenaline rush for soldiers rarely happens in game on gold.

And thats how its meant to be.

Soldiers are meant to me mobs lawn mowers. not boss killers.
put a good Assault Rifle in an infils hands and he becomes near pathetic, but a soldier can rock it and not blink and eye.

you just compared a soldier using an infils favorite weapon, try comparing an infil with a soldiers favorite weapon. an assault rifle.

Compare a Human Soldier with a Revenaunt to that same Geth Infiltrator with the same Revenaunt.

[Ramsutin]

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Dmg nerf wouldn't be enough. It doesn't address the problem of infiltrators never pulling aggro and using teammates as decoys. A longer cooldown as well would force them to fight enemies outside of cloak somewhat alleviating the problem.

Please explain how longer cooldown is going to help with 250/750 (health/shield) Inf to stay alive when Primes will do that damage nearly instantly and Phantoms will do that accross the map. What good is a dead inf to the team?

You mean that the most survivable class in the game currently will now only be as survivable as a 3000 hp krogan, regenerating health vorcha, or badass batarian?  Oh the horror!!!  They will have to settle for only having the best dmg output in the game now!!

No, soldier with AR can shoot 3 shots in the same time as inf can (with Javelin at least)

Lets calculate, shall we?:
GI (max hunter for damage and TC for sniper damage)
-Javelin III does 3018.49 damage, reload to do again 3.87 seconds
Soldier with AR
- Javelin III does 2148.3 damage, AR lasts 6,8 seconds, 3 shots can be fired during that time

so soldier does 6444,9 damage where inf does 5303,8067183462532299741602067183 in the same time.

Infiltrators have the best dmg output period.  Uninterrupted sustained fire for full duration of adrenaline rush for soldiers rarely happens in game on gold.

So you are just throwing evidence I showed you away? If soldier plays like inf he'll have better damage output. Period. And what the hell is " Uninterrupted sustained fire for full duration of adrenaline rush" when you have single shot sniper?

[LULZferBAKON]

As I've said, Infiltrators should be great against single targets, but rubbish against groups. Look at his brother the Vanguard, rubbish against single big targets, but locks down entire groups. The soldier should be capable of doing either just not as effectively.