497 réponses à ce sujet

[Fortack]

SanguineRose wrote...

Fortack wrote...

SanguineRose wrote...

In my experience, more like 3/10 times.

Then you're not playing with people who are on the same level of skill you are. I again refer to the speedruns b/c both solo and team records are firmly in the hands of Infiltrators. Please go and ask any of those players if they can get close or beat those times with another class.

It's a simple fact that the Infiltrator is the most powerful class in MP. Anyone who denies that is either trolling or has no clue what they're talking about. They are not godlike like some people claim, but it wouldn't hurt the game as a whole when the difference between Infiltrators and the rest would get smaller.

I'm yet to see any sufficient evidence to argue your claim as fact, sir.

I have posted facts which you deny even exist. But here are some more:

1. Inflitrators can carry any weapon setup without consequence. They can always use Cloak every 3 seconds. Go try and play an Adept with the Claymore and Black Widow and see what happens to their cooldowns.

2. Infiltrators can cast their other powers for free every 3 seconds (the SI makes the SE look like a moron, so much for the designated tech specialist eh?)

3. Inflitrator have the highest damage bonus in the game.

4. and on top of this the lowest aggro.

[BjornDaDwarf]

Ramsutin wrote...

Did you not see my math?

I would actually like to see you elaborate on your math:

Ramsutin wrote...
Lets calculate, shall we?:
GI (max hunter for damage and TC for sniper damage)
-Javelin III does 3018.49 damage, reload to do again 3.87 seconds
Soldier with AR
- Javelin III does 2148.3 damage, AR lasts 6,8 seconds, 3 shots can be fired during that time

so soldier does 6444,9 damage where inf does 5303,8067183462532299741602067183 in the same time.

You're saying that the HSold can fire 3 fully buffed Javeline shots in 6.8 seconds, but that a GI can only fire 2 in 7.6 seconds (Edit - I just realized I also botched the math here, the GI could shoot two shots in about 4 seconds, not 7.6).  The math on that does not add up. (Edit - And the math still does not add up)

Are you counting on the auto-reload of AR as one of the 3 shots?  If so, than the first shot is not a fully buffed shot, only the second 2 are, in which case the Soldiers total damage is lower than you originally showed.

If you are not counting Auto-Reload, then the GI can also fire 3 Javeline shots in the same window of time, it's just that only 2 of them will be buffed.  If you're going to compare apples to apples, then you need to count any unbuffed shots the GI can make in the same time period.

The 40 sniper percent for TC is also a multiplicative bonus, did you figure it as a multiplicative bonus, or an additive one?  On a fully damage specced GI, that 40 percent bonus actually translates to be significantly bigger than that (more like an 80-100 percent bonus).

Modifié par BjornDaDwarf, 06 juin 2012 - 09:43 .

[Ramsutin]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Dmg nerf wouldn't be enough. It doesn't address the problem of infiltrators never pulling aggro and using teammates as decoys. A longer cooldown as well would force them to fight enemies outside of cloak somewhat alleviating the problem.

Please explain how longer cooldown is going to help with 250/750 (health/shield) Inf to stay alive when Primes will do that damage nearly instantly and Phantoms will do that accross the map. What good is a dead inf to the team?

You mean that the most survivable class in the game currently will now only be as survivable as a 3000 hp krogan, regenerating health vorcha, or badass batarian?  Oh the horror!!!  They will have to settle for only having the best dmg output in the game now!!

No, soldier with AR can shoot 3 shots in the same time as inf can (with Javelin at least)

Lets calculate, shall we?:
GI (max hunter for damage and TC for sniper damage)
-Javelin III does 3018.49 damage, reload to do again 3.87 seconds
Soldier with AR
- Javelin III does 2148.3 damage, AR lasts 6,8 seconds, 3 shots can be fired during that time

so soldier does 6444,9 damage where inf does 5303,8067183462532299741602067183 in the same time.

Infiltrators have the best dmg output period.  Uninterrupted sustained fire for full duration of adrenaline rush for soldiers rarely happens in game on gold.

And thats how its meant to be.

Soldiers are meant to me mobs lawn mowers. not boss killers.
put a good Assault Rifle in an infils hands and he becomes near pathetic, but a soldier can rock it and not blink and eye.

you just compared a soldier using an infils favorite weapon, try comparing an infil with a soldiers favorite weapon. an assault rifle.

Compare a Human Soldier with a Revenaunt to that same Geth Infiltrator with the same Revenaunt.

That'd be cruel, but as I showed you I can outdamage inf with soldier with inf's favourite weapon.

[Hakuthehedgehog]

Ramsutin wrote...

Hakuthehedgehog wrote...


Free use of a power with damage bonus/much greater sniper damage
Objective capping and reviving

FTFY

Huh, what does that mean?

[codename2o2]

LULZferBAKON wrote...

codename2o2 wrote...

LULZferBAKON wrote...

codename2o2 wrote...

LULZferBAKON wrote...

codename2o2 wrote...

For Christ's sake, people are STILL going on about TC? Really?

Why don't we just get rid of AR on human soldiers, being able to have damage reduction while have your own damage increase AND restore your shields is totally OP.

How about ED on salarians? Drain shields while also restoring your own and completely crippling a geth? OP

What about Rage on Krogans? Being able to deal insane amounts of melee damage in combination with all the other protective powers they have like TA and barrier? over-to-the-powered I say!

Oh, oh, and Biotic charge for all vanguards? Instantly restoring your shields while also dealing damage and traveling any distance to either deal more damage, get to objectives quicker or revive another teammate? Get real, OP

Seriously, this is what all you idiots sound like to me. Bioware isn't ruining MP, you guys are.

Tactical Cloak is a 140% damage bonus on the strongest and most accurate weapons in the game, which draws aggro away from Infiltrators thus giving them better survivability.

News flash: every single class can survive just fine if they're played right and specced right. And last I checked, the tactical cloak bonus in damage lasts for... 1.5 seconds? Enough to get out one clip on my valiant. AR gives out what, 70% damage boost over 6 or so seconds? learn to do math

Oh yes,  just one clip, because your cloak totally isn't recharged by the time you finish reloading.  Oh wait, it is.

And AR doesn't recharge? And no other class can reload cancel? And other classes can't spec for lighter weapons and shorter recharge times? edit: OH and Ar totally doesn't instantly reload your clip, right?

Adrenaline rush suffers from your loadout being overweight, tactical cloak gets a free exempt as long as you shoot right away.  I view reload cancel as an exploit, I don't care who says what.  And again, tactical cloak gets an exempt, other classes have to actually limit what they carry.  And yes AR does reload the clip instantly, but you get half the damage bonus.

As I said, other classes can spec for shorter recharge times. You just presented another argument entirely, an exempt as long as you shoot right away. That begs the question, should we get rid of quick scoping? Because honestly that's what I see the majority of people doing while they're playing ANY kind of infiltrator, sniper or otherwise.

Reload cancelling has been announced as a gameplay feature a LONG LONG time ago. Wether you like it or not.

Also, explain to me how you get half the damage bonus with the instant reload for AR? Because I literally just played with my Human female soldier and I did not notice a difference AT ALL between an already reloaded clip and the insta reload clip.

[SanguineRose]

Fortack wrote...

SanguineRose wrote...

Fortack wrote...

SanguineRose wrote...

In my experience, more like 3/10 times.

Then you're not playing with people who are on the same level of skill you are. I again refer to the speedruns b/c both solo and team records are firmly in the hands of Infiltrators. Please go and ask any of those players if they can get close or beat those times with another class.

It's a simple fact that the Infiltrator is the most powerful class in MP. Anyone who denies that is either trolling or has no clue what they're talking about. They are not godlike like some people claim, but it wouldn't hurt the game as a whole when the difference between Infiltrators and the rest would get smaller.

I'm yet to see any sufficient evidence to argue your claim as fact, sir.

I have posted facts which you deny even exist. But here are some more:

1. Inflitrators can carry any weapon setup without consequence. They can always use Cloak every 3 seconds. Go try and play an Adept with the Claymore and Black Widow and see what happens to their cooldowns.

2. Infiltrators can cast their other powers for free every 3 seconds (the SI makes the SE look like a moron, so much for the designated tech specialist eh?)

3. Inflitrator have the highest damage bonus in the game.

4. and on top of this the lowest aggro.

Nope, don't see how that proves beyond a doubt that Inf is the strongest class in the game. There's more to it than DPS, Aggro, and cooldown, especially when in 98% of all cases the Infiltrator's damage is applied to only a single target or a line of targets.

[Fortack]

SanguineRose wrote...

Nope, don't see how that proves beyond a doubt that Inf is the strongest class in the game. There's more to it than DPS, Aggro, and cooldown, especially when in 98% of all cases the Infiltrator's damage is applied to only a single target or a line of targets.

Then there is no point for me to continue this discussion. I am not going to try and explain the world isn't flat, sorry.

[Ramsutin]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

I would actually like to see you elaborate on your math

All damage counted as buffed shots, this is also using reload *feature on AR
GI: 1087.74 (base) +137.5% (1495.65) +40% (435.1)
AR: 1087.74 (base) +97.5% (1060.55)

Modifié par Ramsutin, 06 juin 2012 - 09:46 .

[SanguineRose]

Fortack wrote...

SanguineRose wrote...

Nope, don't see how that proves beyond a doubt that Inf is the strongest class in the game. There's more to it than DPS, Aggro, and cooldown, especially when in 98% of all cases the Infiltrator's damage is applied to only a single target or a line of targets.

Then there is no point for me to continue this discussion. I am not going to try and explain the world isn't flat, sorry.

Cute. Doesn't make you any less wrong, though.

[LULZferBAKON]

Fortack wrote...
Then there is no point for me to continue this discussion. I am not going to try and explain the world isn't flat, sorry.

Tell me about it.

[Ramsutin]

Hakuthehedgehog wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

Hakuthehedgehog wrote...


Free use of a power with damage bonus/much greater sniper damage
Objective capping and reviving

FTFY

Huh, what does that mean?

Fixed that for you
Level 6 only lets you choose either power use or sniper damage.

[heybigmoney]

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Dmg nerf wouldn't be enough. It doesn't address the problem of infiltrators never pulling aggro and using teammates as decoys. A longer cooldown as well would force them to fight enemies outside of cloak somewhat alleviating the problem.

Please explain how longer cooldown is going to help with 250/750 (health/shield) Inf to stay alive when Primes will do that damage nearly instantly and Phantoms will do that accross the map. What good is a dead inf to the team?

You mean that the most survivable class in the game currently will now only be as survivable as a 3000 hp krogan, regenerating health vorcha, or badass batarian?  Oh the horror!!!  They will have to settle for only having the best dmg output in the game now!!

No, soldier with AR can shoot 3 shots in the same time as inf can (with Javelin at least)

Lets calculate, shall we?:
GI (max hunter for damage and TC for sniper damage)
-Javelin III does 3018.49 damage, reload to do again 3.87 seconds
Soldier with AR
- Javelin III does 2148.3 damage, AR lasts 6,8 seconds, 3 shots can be fired during that time

so soldier does 6444,9 damage where inf does 5303,8067183462532299741602067183 in the same time.

Infiltrators have the best dmg output period.  Uninterrupted sustained fire for full duration of adrenaline rush for soldiers rarely happens in game on gold.

So you are just throwing evidence I showed you away? If soldier plays like inf he'll have better damage output. Period. And what the hell is " Uninterrupted sustained fire for full duration of adrenaline rush" when you have single shot sniper?

Because your evidence is worthless.  Its assuming a hypothetical situation which never happens in which a soldier can fire off multiple shots uninterrupted without getting destroyed.  How many human soldiers do you see playing gold?  Do I really need to point this out?

[gilgamesh v9]

No. Nonononononono No.

[SanguineRose]

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Dmg nerf wouldn't be enough. It doesn't address the problem of infiltrators never pulling aggro and using teammates as decoys. A longer cooldown as well would force them to fight enemies outside of cloak somewhat alleviating the problem.

Please explain how longer cooldown is going to help with 250/750 (health/shield) Inf to stay alive when Primes will do that damage nearly instantly and Phantoms will do that accross the map. What good is a dead inf to the team?

You mean that the most survivable class in the game currently will now only be as survivable as a 3000 hp krogan, regenerating health vorcha, or badass batarian?  Oh the horror!!!  They will have to settle for only having the best dmg output in the game now!!

No, soldier with AR can shoot 3 shots in the same time as inf can (with Javelin at least)

Lets calculate, shall we?:
GI (max hunter for damage and TC for sniper damage)
-Javelin III does 3018.49 damage, reload to do again 3.87 seconds
Soldier with AR
- Javelin III does 2148.3 damage, AR lasts 6,8 seconds, 3 shots can be fired during that time

so soldier does 6444,9 damage where inf does 5303,8067183462532299741602067183 in the same time.

Infiltrators have the best dmg output period.  Uninterrupted sustained fire for full duration of adrenaline rush for soldiers rarely happens in game on gold.

So you are just throwing evidence I showed you away? If soldier plays like inf he'll have better damage output. Period. And what the hell is " Uninterrupted sustained fire for full duration of adrenaline rush" when you have single shot sniper?

Because your evidence is worthless.  Its assuming a hypothetical situation which never happens in which a soldier can fire off multiple shots uninterrupted without getting destroyed.  How many human soldiers do you see playing gold?  Do I really need to point this out?

So suddenly Soldiers don't use cover?

[Yajuu Omoi]

[quote]Ramsutin wrote...

[quote]Yajuu Omoi wrote...

[quote]heybigmoney wrote...

[quote]Ramsutin wrote...

[quote]heybigmoney wrote...

No, soldier with AR can shoot 3 shots in the same time as inf can (with Javelin at least)

Lets calculate, shall we?:
GI (max hunter for damage and TC for sniper damage)
-Javelin III does 3018.49 damage, reload to do again 3.87 seconds
Soldier with AR
- Javelin III does 2148.3 damage, AR lasts 6,8 seconds, 3 shots can be fired during that time

so soldier does 6444,9 damage where inf does 5303,8067183462532299741602067183 in the same time.

[/quote]

Infiltrators have the best dmg output period.  Uninterrupted sustained fire for full duration of adrenaline rush for soldiers rarely happens in game on gold.

[/quote]

And thats how its meant to be.

Soldiers are meant to me mobs lawn mowers. not boss killers.
put a good Assault Rifle in an infils hands and he becomes near pathetic, but a soldier can rock it and not blink and eye.

you just compared a soldier using an infils favorite weapon, try comparing an infil with a soldiers favorite weapon. an assault rifle.

Compare a Human Soldier with a Revenaunt to that same Geth Infiltrator with the same Revenaunt.
[/quote]

That'd be cruel, but as I showed you I can outdamage inf with soldier with inf's favourite weapon.

[/quote]

Well...you didn't take into account that an infil can repeat that every 3 second...and a soldier can't.
but a soldier can EASILY beat out an infil with an Assault Rifle, due to the 6 sec effect of the AR, and the vloak only getting 1.5 secs and having to wait 3 to repeat.
a soldier can unload a full clip at normal dmg, hit AR and have a 70% boost on another full clip.
an infil wouldn't even make it through half a clip with their boost...

So point being, TC DOES NOT NEED A NERF!

the weapons CAUSING this issue need nerfing specifically the Krysae.

[Hakuthehedgehog]

Ramsutin wrote...

Hakuthehedgehog wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

Hakuthehedgehog wrote...


Free use of a power with damage bonus/much greater sniper damage
Objective capping and reviving

FTFY

Huh, what does that mean?

Fixed that for you
Level 6 only lets you choose either power use or sniper damage.

Irrelevant: you can shoot a power and fire your weapon: both will receive the TC damage bonus and only the TC cooldown will count, so yes, it's a free power use because you don't get it's cooldown.

[heybigmoney]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Dmg nerf wouldn't be enough. It doesn't address the problem of infiltrators never pulling aggro and using teammates as decoys. A longer cooldown as well would force them to fight enemies outside of cloak somewhat alleviating the problem.

Please explain how longer cooldown is going to help with 250/750 (health/shield) Inf to stay alive when Primes will do that damage nearly instantly and Phantoms will do that accross the map. What good is a dead inf to the team?

You mean that the most survivable class in the game currently will now only be as survivable as a 3000 hp krogan, regenerating health vorcha, or badass batarian?  Oh the horror!!!  They will have to settle for only having the best dmg output in the game now!!

No, soldier with AR can shoot 3 shots in the same time as inf can (with Javelin at least)

Lets calculate, shall we?:
GI (max hunter for damage and TC for sniper damage)
-Javelin III does 3018.49 damage, reload to do again 3.87 seconds
Soldier with AR
- Javelin III does 2148.3 damage, AR lasts 6,8 seconds, 3 shots can be fired during that time

so soldier does 6444,9 damage where inf does 5303,8067183462532299741602067183 in the same time.

Infiltrators have the best dmg output period.  Uninterrupted sustained fire for full duration of adrenaline rush for soldiers rarely happens in game on gold.

And thats how its meant to be.

Soldiers are meant to me mobs lawn mowers. not boss killers.
put a good Assault Rifle in an infils hands and he becomes near pathetic, but a soldier can rock it and not blink and eye.

you just compared a soldier using an infils favorite weapon, try comparing an infil with a soldiers favorite weapon. an assault rifle.

Compare a Human Soldier with a Revenaunt to that same Geth Infiltrator with the same Revenaunt.

Well thats one point for the soldier.  Infiltrator will never know the joys of using one of the worst class of weapons in the game.

[Ramsutin]

heybigmoney wrote...

Because your evidence is worthless.  Its assuming a hypothetical situation which never happens in which a soldier can fire off multiple shots uninterrupted without getting destroyed.  How many human soldiers do you see playing gold?  Do I really need to point this out?

I think somebody is a bit tired: Let me explain like I would to a child
1. HS and GI have same ammount of hitpoints
2.If they both play the same way ie. peek out to take that/those sniping shots they both end up with same results in health
2b. As you won't propably move as GI enemy shoots at your place regardless are you cloaked or not.
so if they play the same way soldier is more powerfull. And many soldiers on gold. I just don't kick them the instant they arrive to the lobby.

[SanguineRose]

heybigmoney wrote...

Well thats one point for the soldier.  Infiltrator will never know the joys of using one of the best class of weapons in the game.

fixed.

[darkblade]

Fortack wrote...

SanguineRose wrote...

In my experience, more like 3/10 times.

Then you're not playing with people who are on the same level of skill you are. I again refer to the speedruns b/c both solo and team records are firmly in the hands of Infiltrators. Please go and ask any of those players if they can get close or beat those times with another class.

It's a simple fact that the Infiltrator is the most powerful class in MP. Anyone who denies that is either trolling or has no clue what they're talking about. They are not godlike like some people claim, but it wouldn't hurt the game as a whole when the difference between Infiltrators and the rest would get smaller.

Both examples, irrelevant. Not only that but no one cares, you think its a good argument to cite players who are really good at the game doing really good with the class as proof?

The elite are not the mean of measurement. The game will never be balance for or around them. all that matters is that the everyday guy, or even an above average guy cannot turn an infiltrator into a cake walk class under normal circumstances.

The infiltrator is the most powerful class in MP, ok so what? Again irrelevent, point me to a class based MP game with RPG elements that doesnt have a most powerful class. 

The class just needs a little bit of specializing.

[Ramsutin]

Hakuthehedgehog wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

Hakuthehedgehog wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

Hakuthehedgehog wrote...


Free use of a power with damage bonus/much greater sniper damage
Objective capping and reviving

FTFY

Huh, what does that mean?

Fixed that for you
Level 6 only lets you choose either power use or sniper damage.

Irrelevant: you can shoot a power and fire your weapon: both will receive the TC damage bonus and only the TC cooldown will count, so yes, it's a free power use because you don't get it's cooldown.

I didn't say you were wrong, I merely pointed out that the 40% sniper bonus won't apply if you take power use.

[NewStrings]

NO.

When I'm playing Quarian I have NOTHING except tactical cloak against Geth. No offensive powers. Not even concussive shot. I'm not counting grenades towards ANY race when I say that. All I have is my cloak and my weapon. I need damage bonus otherwise I couldn't play the class at all.

[GGW KillerTiger]

If we nerf the damage of tactical cloak then it needs to be fixed and enemies shouldn't be able to detect you from across the map like they can right now