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Why Tactial Cloak prevents good weapon creation and weak wep buffs


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#451
ValorOfArms777

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N7 Rixus wrote...

I don't get the point of this thread nerfing the TC whats next nerf the marksman or some other skill there's already sabotage that got heavily nerfed on the geth controlling side of it and now they want to nerf the cloak.


they don't feel challenged and thus they want more and more nerfs it's really a silly thing honestly sabotage was nerfed for good reason I see why it was it over did it esspecialy when you cna overtake too many the reaction tiem thing is a tad weird... prob be more useful at 3 seconds not I think 8 anyways it's also now one of the most powerful moves but ppl havnt seen it ^_- and it deny a score meaning score board on Quarian sabotager is worthless and they can sabotage dmg backfire all targets nobody knew this only thinking eh guns only it works on reapers/cerbs normal forces as soon as they deal attack if I recall they get super stacked dmg it's quite impressive

and that dmg can far outdo a TC user if ppl just thought about it silly huh ...just silly


enough complaints about nerfs/buffs fix the BUGS FIX... the BUGS sheesh priorites sheesh least they DO buffs thign sneeding them though like the eagle ^_^ I so wanted taht gun to make a mark at last

#452
saxybeast418

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I keep reading posts that go along the lines of needing to "compromise" with the nerfers.

This isn't a democracy. The nerfers won't hold the game hostage until their demands are met. Tactical cloak, and infiltrators in general, are working pretty much as intended. Their whole game revolves around stacking damage boosts into the stratosphere to deal critical damage to high-priority targets.

As far as I can tell, the only time Bioware really "nerfs" guns or powers is when said guns/powers allow the players to render enemies helpless on Gold.

The major examples that come to mind are:

1. Falcon: this gun was designed to be a powerful grenade launcher, not a universal stun-locking device. Yeah it was a ton of fun, but it was seriously broken. Now, it is quite usable when not firing blanks, and can even be used for much more reasonable group stun-locking with the hunter mode ROF increase, or the turian soldier's marksman ROF increase.

Or, you know, you could use the striker, which was designed as a rapid-fire grenade launcher.

2. Sabotage - Hacking: This power allowed the Quarian Infiltrator to rend Geth hilariously helpless on Gold. Again, sad to see it go, but it had to happen. Having said that, I feel like this nerf went just a bit too far. It takes too long for enemies to start attacking a hacked enemy. By the time they do, the hack is either about to wear off, or your team will have already killed everyone in the group, including your target.

It would be nice to have some of Sabotage's versatility back without making it a Geth game-breaker. I don't want the power to be able to single-handedly be able to decimate the Geth (well, okay, I actually do, but in the same way that I want a gun that shoots thresher maws and biotic gods). I just would like to be able to use the power as a brief distraction, a way to cover my escape, just to occupy the rest of the group of enemies for a couple of seconds.

Still, it has its uses vs. synthetics, which brings me to...

3) Sabotage (again!): Backfire: So this one took a while to catch onto because A) enemies killed just by backfire damage don't give points (bug, I presume), and B) the wording of how sabotage's backfire works is misleading as all get-out. It talks about overheating an enemy's weapon, but it has absolutely nothing to do with that: it is simply a delayed direct damage and stun skill vs. organics.

The broken part came when some clever players discovered that by quickly stacking sabotage, they could immediately trigger previously cast sabotages while stacking the "vulnerability" evolution's 100% increase to tech powers - powers like *sabotage*, allowing a couple of Quarian infiltrators with the correct build decimate reapers - yes, even Brutes and Banshees - in seconds, without firing a shot. (Oh, and btw: Sabotage has a small area of effect against organics :blink:).

You can still do this, but they scaled back the tech vulnerability stacking, so you can't just frolic around casting sabotage, giddily laughing while reapers drop dead all around you on Gold.
 
The rest of the "nerfs" have been pretty tame tweaks to bring gun damage, ammo, and/or weight into line with its rank and intended utility.

===================================================================

So why do I bring this up? To illustrate a point: Bioware's balancing goals are not to make the infiltrator less competitive against your class(es) of choice. Their goal is to make the enemies competitive so as not to reduce their game to a simple exploitable gimmick. Having said that, there are limits to what they can do just by tweaking player and enemy parameters, so don't expect A.I. overhalls or map redesigns to eliminate FBWGG any time soon. :P

Also, don't expect them to radically change how tactical cloak works. It's part of the design of the game, and seeing as how much trouble it has apparently been for them to fix seemingly simple glitches, it probably isn't nearly as easy as some here seem to think.

The only thing that they could do is change the parameters like recharge time and damage bonus, but I don't see them doing that either. Why? Because the margin for error is so small. Infiltrators by and large revolve around tac cloak the same way vanguards revolve around charge. It is the center of their game, and key to surviving and contributing to the team (all novelty builds aside).

Even a seemingly innocuous thing like nerfing the damage boost from tac cloak gimps the infiltrator. It centers entirely around quick bursts of damage on key enemies. To do so, they need to jack their damage up as high as it will go before firing their shot/burst. Watering that down, even by a few measly percentage points, risks hobbling the class in its entirety.

And for what? You want more points? You're playing the wrong game (or with the wrong people). You want stronger guns? The presence of the infiltrator has not prevented Bioware from introducing new strong guns and buffing the ones we already have (remember, the nerfs have been few and far between).

*sigh*

tl;dr The infiltrators seem to be doing exactly what they were designed to do.

(P.S. I feel like this could be remedied by a minor overhaul of the scoring system, adding more points to assists, as well as more medals for cooperative actions, like doing a ton of assist damage with certain weapons, or killing enemies attempting to flank your teammates, and so on. There is a natural competitive instinct in human nature, so while the points really don't matter, they can be used to sort of subliminally shape the attitudes of the player base to the desired effect).

#453
heybigmoney

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Ramsutin wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Because your evidence is worthless.  Its assuming a hypothetical situation which never happens in which a soldier can fire off multiple shots uninterrupted without getting destroyed.  How many human soldiers do you see playing gold?  Do I really need to point this out?


I think somebody is a bit tired: Let me explain like I would to a child
1. HS and GI have same ammount of hitpoints
2.If they both play the same way ie. peek out to take that/those sniping shots they both end up with same results in health
2b. As you won't propably move as GI enemy shoots at your place regardless are you cloaked or not.
so if they play the same way soldier is more powerfull. And many soldiers on gold. I just don't kick them the instant they arrive to the lobby.


Are you seriously arguing that human soldier is better than infiltrator?  Your scenarios are completely unrealistic and doesn't even take into account power spammage that infiltrator's can use in every cloak cycle.  Proxy mine hits for 1500-2k dmg and provides debuffs that stack skyrocketing an infiltrator's dps.  Even in your imaginary theorycraft scenario soldier loses.  And this doesn't even take into account the countless advantages cloak gives besides dmg bonuses.  You are either smoking crack or trolling the crap out everyone.

#454
Yajuu Omoi

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Gamemako wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Yes, they DO. try cloaking and then walking into a room where you knwo a turret is. IT. SHOOTS. YOU.
EVERYTHING shoots you even when you cloak. TC doesn't make you disappear...just SLIGHTLY harder to see.


No, it doesn't. I just went through a half-dozen Gold runs this evening as an Infil, both Salarian and Geth, and not one bullet from a Turret touched me. Quite the contrary, my Gethfiltrator murdered about two dozen of them without incident.

Your ability to ignore reality is downright stunning.


Then i don't know what the hell you're doing but i'm not gonna cheat.
I can't run through a horde of enemies and expect to be untouched. i'd get melee'd or shot by EVERYTHING i go by. Period.

#455
Immortal Strife

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XxTaLoNxX wrote...

The fool you should have eaten wrote...

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

Honestly a nerf down to 15% IS unreasonable.

I do agree that TC needs a rebalance BADLY. However I think THIS would be the more reasonable change.

Change Rank 4 damage bonus from 90% to 65%
Change Rank 6 sniper rifle damage bonus from 40% flat damage TO 40% HEADSHOT damage bonus.

Those changes would bring the Tactical Cloak skill down a notch WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY nerfing the Krysae WITHOUT actually nerfing the Krysae!

Anyone agree?

:wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WARNING: Space Magic is involved in this post!!!

PAY ATTENTION! I have a decent suggestion with a GOOD compramise!


I need not read anymore.  A consesus had been reached.   This is the best course of action and has the most balance.  Unfortunately it is likely that you will be ignored.  Oh well, you tried to inspire reason in the masses.  You are amongst the few.


That's ok, I'm ignored most of the time anyway. Especially when I have a good idea for how to actually balance everything out and reach a good comprimise for EVERYONE without actually killing a gun or a class.


Talon can you please explain how your suggestion skirts shieldgate, and the fact that heavy armored units do not have headshot damage bonuses? Was your intent, to greatly reduce the effectiveness of snipers on infiltrators? IMO the 40% headshot damage is better utilized on every weapon other then powerful snipers? Do you think all snipers should be utilized on the Human Soldier Build instead of the infiltrator class?

Just wondering.

#456
Atheosis

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saxybeast418 wrote...

As far as I can tell, the only time Bioware really "nerfs" guns or powers is when said guns/powers allow the players to render enemies helpless on Gold.


I don't recall the Vindicator ever doing any such thing...

#457
Kildin_of_the_Volus

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saxybeast418 wrote...

I keep reading posts that go along the lines of needing to "compromise" with the nerfers.

This isn't a democracy. The nerfers won't hold the game hostage until their demands are met. Tactical cloak, and infiltrators in general, are working pretty much as intended. Their whole game revolves around stacking damage boosts into the stratosphere to deal critical damage to high-priority targets.

As far as I can tell, the only time Bioware really "nerfs" guns or powers is when said guns/powers allow the players to render enemies helpless on Gold.

The major examples that come to mind are:

1. Falcon: this gun was designed to be a powerful grenade launcher, not a universal stun-locking device. Yeah it was a ton of fun, but it was seriously broken. Now, it is quite usable when not firing blanks, and can even be used for much more reasonable group stun-locking with the hunter mode ROF increase, or the turian soldier's marksman ROF increase.

Or, you know, you could use the striker, which was designed as a rapid-fire grenade launcher.

2. Sabotage - Hacking: This power allowed the Quarian Infiltrator to rend Geth hilariously helpless on Gold. Again, sad to see it go, but it had to happen. Having said that, I feel like this nerf went just a bit too far. It takes too long for enemies to start attacking a hacked enemy. By the time they do, the hack is either about to wear off, or your team will have already killed everyone in the group, including your target.

It would be nice to have some of Sabotage's versatility back without making it a Geth game-breaker. I don't want the power to be able to single-handedly be able to decimate the Geth (well, okay, I actually do, but in the same way that I want a gun that shoots thresher maws and biotic gods). I just would like to be able to use the power as a brief distraction, a way to cover my escape, just to occupy the rest of the group of enemies for a couple of seconds.

Still, it has its uses vs. synthetics, which brings me to...

3) Sabotage (again!): Backfire: So this one took a while to catch onto because A) enemies killed just by backfire damage don't give points (bug, I presume), and B) the wording of how sabotage's backfire works is misleading as all get-out. It talks about overheating an enemy's weapon, but it has absolutely nothing to do with that: it is simply a delayed direct damage and stun skill vs. organics.

The broken part came when some clever players discovered that by quickly stacking sabotage, they could immediately trigger previously cast sabotages while stacking the "vulnerability" evolution's 100% increase to tech powers - powers like *sabotage*, allowing a couple of Quarian infiltrators with the correct build decimate reapers - yes, even Brutes and Banshees - in seconds, without firing a shot. (Oh, and btw: Sabotage has a small area of effect against organics :blink:).

You can still do this, but they scaled back the tech vulnerability stacking, so you can't just frolic around casting sabotage, giddily laughing while reapers drop dead all around you on Gold.
 
The rest of the "nerfs" have been pretty tame tweaks to bring gun damage, ammo, and/or weight into line with its rank and intended utility.

===================================================================

So why do I bring this up? To illustrate a point: Bioware's balancing goals are not to make the infiltrator less competitive against your class(es) of choice. Their goal is to make the enemies competitive so as not to reduce their game to a simple exploitable gimmick. Having said that, there are limits to what they can do just by tweaking player and enemy parameters, so don't expect A.I. overhalls or map redesigns to eliminate FBWGG any time soon. :P

Also, don't expect them to radically change how tactical cloak works. It's part of the design of the game, and seeing as how much trouble it has apparently been for them to fix seemingly simple glitches, it probably isn't nearly as easy as some here seem to think.

The only thing that they could do is change the parameters like recharge time and damage bonus, but I don't see them doing that either. Why? Because the margin for error is so small. Infiltrators by and large revolve around tac cloak the same way vanguards revolve around charge. It is the center of their game, and key to surviving and contributing to the team (all novelty builds aside).

Even a seemingly innocuous thing like nerfing the damage boost from tac cloak gimps the infiltrator. It centers entirely around quick bursts of damage on key enemies. To do so, they need to jack their damage up as high as it will go before firing their shot/burst. Watering that down, even by a few measly percentage points, risks hobbling the class in its entirety.

And for what? You want more points? You're playing the wrong game (or with the wrong people). You want stronger guns? The presence of the infiltrator has not prevented Bioware from introducing new strong guns and buffing the ones we already have (remember, the nerfs have been few and far between).

*sigh*

tl;dr The infiltrators seem to be doing exactly what they were designed to do.

(P.S. I feel like this could be remedied by a minor overhaul of the scoring system, adding more points to assists, as well as more medals for cooperative actions, like doing a ton of assist damage with certain weapons, or killing enemies attempting to flank your teammates, and so on. There is a natural competitive instinct in human nature, so while the points really don't matter, they can be used to sort of subliminally shape the attitudes of the player base to the desired effect).


QFT

I can't wrap my head around wanting to "balance" an entire class around one new weapon.  I used qutation marks because the majority of the proposed changes/compromises would effectively break TC which, as saxybeast418 pointed out, would break the entire class.

Seriously, some of y'all need to get over being out scored by a class that's designed to be a massive damage dealer.  And if you're incapable of that, don't play with people who use the class/gun combo you so hate.  I certainly leave lobbies when I see people using the krysae (on any class).

#458
saxybeast418

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Atheosis wrote...

saxybeast418 wrote...

As far as I can tell, the only time Bioware really "nerfs" guns or powers is when said guns/powers allow the players to render enemies helpless on Gold.


I don't recall the Vindicator ever doing any such thing...


The vindicator nerf was fairly minor, and it seemed like an attempt at aligning rank, damage, and weight more than anything else. I think I said as much somewhere in my long post.

#459
MongoNYC

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Yajuu Omoi wrote...

MongoNYC wrote...

KainD wrote...

I will take 15% damage over 90% only if tactical cloak makes me COMPLETELY invisible, untargetable and undetectable, no matter the enemy, distance to them or group size. If i play alone all enemies should freeze and wait until I decloak for further actions.


This is a good compromise.  But tick the damage up to 25% and you have a deal.


hmmmmm....50%?


How about 35% and a TC duration of 16 seconds?

#460
Striker93175

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Fastest FBWGG I've ever ran w friends actually had 0 infiltrators... we had 3 AA's all w/ max area reave and warp bubbles and one novagaurd to detonate everything... 2 bubbles indoors basement, 1 outside. Whatever wasn't in a bubble was being smacked with reave with intermittent gunfire inbetween powers (warp ammo inside a warp bubble and a reaved enemy also gets a bonus and you get the dmg reduction and weapon bonus while the reave is in effect on you) :P Needless to say the game sounded something like this: BBBBBOOOOMMM BOOM BOOM BBBBBOOOOMMM BBBBBOOOOMMM BOOM BOOM, BOOM BOOM BOOM, BBBBBOOOOMMM BBBBBOOOOMMM BBBBBOOOOMMM.

Wanna talk OP? NERF TEAMWORK ;)

Modifié par Striker93175, 07 juin 2012 - 02:38 .


#461
ValorOfArms777

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MongoNYC wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

MongoNYC wrote...

KainD wrote...

I will take 15% damage over 90% only if tactical cloak makes me COMPLETELY invisible, untargetable and undetectable, no matter the enemy, distance to them or group size. If i play alone all enemies should freeze and wait until I decloak for further actions.


This is a good compromise.  But tick the damage up to 25% and you have a deal.


hmmmmm....50%?


How about 35% and a TC duration of 16 seconds?


How about leave it alone? and duration 16 secs is WAY too long count that out in one one-thousand up to 16 and realise how long it is

it's fine as is the dmg is equivilent to some massive combos which the Inf cannot perform so readilly like the other classes

#462
saxybeast418

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Again: why are we negotiating or compromising on a balance change that neither exists nor is actually necessary?

#463
cuzIMgood

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Agreed OP. Tac cloak also needs to actually be affected by weapon weight too.

#464
Guest_N7 Krisixus_*

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ValorOfArms777 wrote...

MongoNYC wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

MongoNYC wrote...

KainD wrote...

I
will take 15% damage over 90% only if tactical cloak makes me
COMPLETELY invisible, untargetable and undetectable, no matter the
enemy, distance to them or group size. If i play alone all enemies
should freeze and wait until I decloak for further actions.


This is a good compromise.  But tick the damage up to 25% and you have a deal.


hmmmmm....50%?


How about 35% and a TC duration of 16 seconds?


How
about leave it alone? and duration 16 secs is WAY too long count that
out in one one-thousand up to 16 and realise how long it is

it's fine as is the dmg is equivilent to some massive combos which the Inf cannot perform so readilly like the other classes


agreed TC is fine like it always has been as it is and nerfing the TC won't solve anything possibly a decrease in the amount of infiltrator users and more adepts in return.

Modifié par N7 Rixus, 08 juin 2012 - 11:57 .


#465
Morgax_Warrior

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Make the cloak fully invisible (no enemy can detect including geth), and reduce the damage with reasonable amount and we have a deal, until then no, best defense is good offense.

#466
ShadowRanger88

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KainD wrote...

I will take 15% damage over 90% only if tactical cloak makes me COMPLETELY invisible, untargetable and undetectable, no matter the enemy, distance to them or group size. If i play alone all enemies should freeze and wait until I decloak for further actions.


+1. This. If the cloak actually made sure you wouldn't be targeted (unless you run into fire) I don't care about the damage bonus. Make it so you are properly invisible and undetectable, increase the duration a bit and the cloak works as a invisibility cloak should.

Modifié par ShadowRanger88, 08 juin 2012 - 12:08 .


#467
greghorvath

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I am so looking forward to being banned from the BS Network for speaking my mind in threads like this after the poll in my signature (yes, that was self promotion) reaches the desired size...

Modifié par greghorvath, 08 juin 2012 - 12:17 .


#468
DNC Protoman

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ShadowRanger88 wrote...

KainD wrote...

I will take 15% damage over 90% only if tactical cloak makes me COMPLETELY invisible, untargetable and undetectable, no matter the enemy, distance to them or group size. If i play alone all enemies should freeze and wait until I decloak for further actions.


+1. This. If the cloak actually made sure you wouldn't be targeted (unless you run into fire) I don't care about the damage bonus. Make it so you are properly invisible and undetectable, increase the duration a bit and the cloak works as a invisibility cloak should.



I've seen this idea thrown around a lot. 

It's good.  I agree.

#469
Guest_N7 Krisixus_*

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The whole thing about being completely undetected completely and making enemies frozen unable to see you while in cloak is just broken IMO for example you got an upload objective you can stand in that circle and when you TC is about is near the end of its duration you can find cover somewhere and while the the enemies chase you, you can go back to cloak run through the enemies back to the objective circle while repeating this once the upload objective is over

Even in target elimination for example you see a marauder in the middle in a room with 2 banshees 1 ravager 1 brute and several cannibals you just waltz in there no enemies will melee you or react if your close to them.

This makes infiltrators soloing easy to get their own credits.

Modifié par N7 Rixus, 08 juin 2012 - 02:15 .


#470
Striker93175

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N7 Rixus wrote...

The whole thing about being completely undetected completely and making enemies frozen unable to see you while in cloak is just broken IMO for example you got an upload objective you can stand in that circle and when you TC is about is near the end of its duration you can find cover somewhere and while the the enemies chase you, you can go back to cloak run through the enemies back to the objective circle while repeating this once the upload objective is over

Even in target elimination for example you see a marauder in the middle in a room with 2 banshees 1 ravager 1 brute and several cannibals you just waltz in there no enemies will melee you or react if your close to them.

This makes infiltrators soloing easy to get their own credits.



Problem is now though I can cloak 1/2 a screen away where the enemies don't even see me cloaking --- cannibals and husks still chase.  Problem is now enemies that are paying me attention turn on me the instant I cloak.  Problem is atlas, primes, brutes... don't care that you are cloaked at all you may as well be wearing a glowing neon bull’s-eye.

What I don't thinking non-infiltrator players realize...  cloak doesn't equal a "win" button.

#471
greghorvath

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I am going to suggest a very weird solution to the krysae/TC problem:

The Krysea already bugs cloak, right? Just make the "bug" consistent and permanent. An excuse could be thunk up to explain why the gun cannot be used with cloak, so basically the TC/Krysae OP issue would no longer be an issue. Infiltrators using Krysae would forgo TC when using it, and everone else could keep their nice and shiny weapon.

#472
ryoldschool

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saxybeast418 wrote...

I keep reading posts that go along the lines of needing to "compromise" with the nerfers.

This isn't a democracy. The nerfers won't hold the game hostage until their demands are met. Tactical cloak, and infiltrators in general, are working pretty much as intended. Their whole game revolves around stacking damage boosts into the stratosphere to deal critical damage to high-priority targets.

As far as I can tell, the only time Bioware really "nerfs" guns or powers is when said guns/powers allow the players to render enemies helpless on Gold.

The major examples that come to mind are:

1. Falcon: this gun was designed to be a powerful grenade launcher, not a universal stun-locking device. Yeah it was a ton of fun, but it was seriously broken. Now, it is quite usable when not firing blanks, and can even be used for much more reasonable group stun-locking with the hunter mode ROF increase, or the turian soldier's marksman ROF increase.

Or, you know, you could use the striker, which was designed as a rapid-fire grenade launcher.

2. Sabotage - Hacking: This power allowed the Quarian Infiltrator to rend Geth hilariously helpless on Gold. Again, sad to see it go, but it had to happen. Having said that, I feel like this nerf went just a bit too far. It takes too long for enemies to start attacking a hacked enemy. By the time they do, the hack is either about to wear off, or your team will have already killed everyone in the group, including your target.

It would be nice to have some of Sabotage's versatility back without making it a Geth game-breaker. I don't want the power to be able to single-handedly be able to decimate the Geth (well, okay, I actually do, but in the same way that I want a gun that shoots thresher maws and biotic gods). I just would like to be able to use the power as a brief distraction, a way to cover my escape, just to occupy the rest of the group of enemies for a couple of seconds.

Still, it has its uses vs. synthetics, which brings me to...

3) Sabotage (again!): Backfire: So this one took a while to catch onto because A) enemies killed just by backfire damage don't give points (bug, I presume), and B) the wording of how sabotage's backfire works is misleading as all get-out. It talks about overheating an enemy's weapon, but it has absolutely nothing to do with that: it is simply a delayed direct damage and stun skill vs. organics.

The broken part came when some clever players discovered that by quickly stacking sabotage, they could immediately trigger previously cast sabotages while stacking the "vulnerability" evolution's 100% increase to tech powers - powers like *sabotage*, allowing a couple of Quarian infiltrators with the correct build decimate reapers - yes, even Brutes and Banshees - in seconds, without firing a shot. (Oh, and btw: Sabotage has a small area of effect against organics :blink:).

You can still do this, but they scaled back the tech vulnerability stacking, so you can't just frolic around casting sabotage, giddily laughing while reapers drop dead all around you on Gold.
 
The rest of the "nerfs" have been pretty tame tweaks to bring gun damage, ammo, and/or weight into line with its rank and intended utility.

===================================================================

So why do I bring this up? To illustrate a point: Bioware's balancing goals are not to make the infiltrator less competitive against your class(es) of choice. Their goal is to make the enemies competitive so as not to reduce their game to a simple exploitable gimmick. Having said that, there are limits to what they can do just by tweaking player and enemy parameters, so don't expect A.I. overhalls or map redesigns to eliminate FBWGG any time soon. :P

Also, don't expect them to radically change how tactical cloak works. It's part of the design of the game, and seeing as how much trouble it has apparently been for them to fix seemingly simple glitches, it probably isn't nearly as easy as some here seem to think.

The only thing that they could do is change the parameters like recharge time and damage bonus, but I don't see them doing that either. Why? Because the margin for error is so small. Infiltrators by and large revolve around tac cloak the same way vanguards revolve around charge. It is the center of their game, and key to surviving and contributing to the team (all novelty builds aside).

Even a seemingly innocuous thing like nerfing the damage boost from tac cloak gimps the infiltrator. It centers entirely around quick bursts of damage on key enemies. To do so, they need to jack their damage up as high as it will go before firing their shot/burst. Watering that down, even by a few measly percentage points, risks hobbling the class in its entirety.

And for what? You want more points? You're playing the wrong game (or with the wrong people). You want stronger guns? The presence of the infiltrator has not prevented Bioware from introducing new strong guns and buffing the ones we already have (remember, the nerfs have been few and far between).

*sigh*

tl;dr The infiltrators seem to be doing exactly what they were designed to do.

(P.S. I feel like this could be remedied by a minor overhaul of the scoring system, adding more points to assists, as well as more medals for cooperative actions, like doing a ton of assist damage with certain weapons, or killing enemies attempting to flank your teammates, and so on. There is a natural competitive instinct in human nature, so while the points really don't matter, they can be used to sort of subliminally shape the attitudes of the player base to the desired effect).


+1 wish I had seen this yesterday.

#473
PinkysPain

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Why can't they just give all enemies critical locations and have tactical cloak give bonus damage for hitting those locations? They'll go back to using sniper rifles and for the ones with good aim they could still get the same damage with those ... just not with shotguns/Krysae/Striker/mines (the brave ones could run up close enough to put the shotgun pellets all in the critical location I guess, more power to them).

Would anyone really mind the end of the shotgunning/AoE spamming GIs?

#474
ryoldschool

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PinkysPain wrote...

Why can't they just give all enemies critical locations and have tactical cloak give bonus damage for hitting those locations? They'll go back to using sniper rifles and for the ones with good aim they could still get the same damage with those ... just not with shotguns/Krysae/Striker/mines (the brave ones could run up close enough to put the shotgun pellets all in the critical location I guess, more power to them).

Would anyone really mind the end of the shotgunning/AoE spamming GIs?


I would, its my favorite build.:wizard:

#475
Lucius Aelius

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Tactical Cloak undoubtedly throws off the balance of the entire game, whatever fix is applied, something should be done to balance things (I've spoken more specifically elsewhere, suffice it to say a number of options are on the table, whatever they do it's pretty ridiculous having it be the way it is now).