497 réponses à ce sujet

[TheAdventurer29]

Infiltrators are designed to do massive damage and score high for the team. They are designed to take down high targets. They are designed to be snipers and shotgunners. Soldiers however is designed to rock with assault rifles like they do in ME2 but the damage of assault rifles don't scale with difficulty which render them useless on gold. Plus shotguns and snipers do more punch and even more punch with cloak. If you know what a carrier is (if you don't, it means they carry the team to victory), they can carry their team if they have good support. Biotic Explosion teams, Tech Bursts teams and Grenade teams are a different matter and use different strategies. For infiltrator based teams, the entire team should help them so they can kill even more. Besides you will gain those points from their kills as a combined experience for the entire team. STOP WHINING PEOPLE!

P.S. If you are that persistent, nerf the damage bonus to at least 70% instead of 90%. Anything less than that, I will leave this game and play something else instead because it is becoming boring anyway without new enemies lol.

Modifié par TheAdventurer29, 08 juin 2012 - 10:57 .

[PinkysPain]

This is not a rock/paper/scissor or holy trinity game (it might be better if it was). All the classes are there to do massive damage and score high. The fact only one class is good at it (ignoring the people with grenade capacity upgrades using ammo packs) is a slight problem ...

Modifié par PinkysPain, 08 juin 2012 - 11:08 .

[TheAdventurer29]

PinkysPain wrote...

This is not a rock/paper/scissor or holy trinity game ... all the classes are there to do massive damage and score high. The fact only one class is good at it is a slight problem ...

I am sorry but I can't agree with this statement. Are u saying engineers should score high? Are u saying other support characters should score high? They are not. They are to help those who can do massive damage. This is where balance lies in co-op. You help each other to fulfill each other's purpose. Infiltrators' one primary purpose is to do massive damage at any level at any time. Fo example, in other shooter games, a medic shouldn't score higher than other soldiers who do more damage. Medic's primary objective is to heal and give support. THEY ARE NOT TO SCORE HIGH! Those who kill most are designed to score high! Case closed! 

Modifié par TheAdventurer29, 08 juin 2012 - 11:10 .

[PinkysPain]

The only support character in the game is the Salarian Engineer ... for all the other engineers their abilities offer negligible battlefield control, it's just some extra damage.

The problem on gold is that everything either dies almost instantly or is immune to almost everything ... with that kind of balancing the whole idea of support goes out of the window. In theory you could argue that classes with better defenses deserve better offense as well, but stealth is the best defense ...

So yes, unless they rebalance gold entirely non Salarian engineers should score high ... when battlefield control and mezzing is made irrelevant it's all just an issue of offense and defense, and a turret is no greater defensive boon than stealth ... in fact there is no better defense in the game than stealth, so hell the infiltrator actually deserves to do less damage from that point of view.

[saxybeast418]

Actually, I think that every class *is* meant to score high.

The problem with this is that not every class is meant to get the kills - that is, to finish the enemies.

Sure, every class is pretty much capable of doing well and handing out pain even on the highest difficulty settings. Having said that, its pretty clear that there is supposed to be a sort of division of labor.

For example, maybe one player focuses on debuffs, one on crowd control, one on enemy suppression, and one on raw damage output; this is just one of many configurations, and it certainly isn't meant to be iron-clad even during the match in question. In any case, this is the intention that the power mechanics seem to clearly convey.

The problem is the scoring system itself. Yes, I know, it's a co-op game, everyone gets the same xp, etc. etc. And while I actually agree with this sentiment, it's still a condescending and overly simplistic dismissal of a legitimate grievance.

See, while everything else in the game encourages co-operative play, the scoring system *discourages* it. I can see why they would want a scoring system, and I think that it is a good idea:

1) It's a way to encourage friendly competition.
2) It's a way to satisfy some of the competitive nature inherent to all players to varying degrees.
3) Most importantly, it allows the the designers to reward and encourage desirable actions and behaviors, like reviving team mates, completing objectives, and assisting in kills.

Even if you aren't a hyper-competitive jerk, you still want to feel like you are contributing and get rewarded for said contributions. That can be hard when you score several thousand points behind your teammates because you were the sucker who didn't go with the optimized high dps build in favor of a support class, or even a class you just happen to like.

It's counter-productive to have a co-op game reward the players who finish off the most enemies over those who make equal, if not greater, contributions to the team in other important ways. It doesn't matter if that reward has no actual impact in the game - your rewards, experience, even your rank are completely independent of how high your score was in any of your matches.

But its still a reward, and you don't get nearly as many points for assisting as you do for killing. To make matters worse, of the 13 non-group medals that one can earn during a match, only 2 aren't kill related: revives and assists. And the threshold for assists is so low that it almost seems like a condescending consolation prize.

I understand that Bioware probably didn't consider that even non-consequential rewards could shape player motivation and behavior. But it seems quite clear that they do, and that we should be advocating for a more robust and even-handed scoring system rather than "totally great ideas for balance changes that'll "fix" everything!"

[BoomDynamite]

NO.

[Lucius Aelius]

It is ridiculous to say infiltrators are only there for damage, yes that's one thing they're there for if you spec them that way, but infiltrators are there to infiltrate, you can get away with reviving people/capping objectives in situations where no one else can, designed to deal bursts of damage, but more damage overall than even a Soldier? That's what they're their for (the only reason they exist) and yet they're totally outclassed by a class of characters who get to both be invisible and pack the biggest punch, where for every other class one generally makes a decision between either or, how do infiltrators being given all the best perks with none of the weaknesses count as anything besides OP?

[shadowkinz]

whether TC is op or not is a side to the fact that the

KRYSAE AND REEGAR ARE RIDICULOUS OVERPOWERED REGARDLESS OF TC..

thanks for listening.

[robarcool]

Lucius Aelius wrote...

It is ridiculous to say infiltrators are only there for damage, yes that's one thing they're there for if you spec them that way, but infiltrators are there to infiltrate, you can get away with reviving people/capping objectives in situations where no one else can, designed to deal bursts of damage, but more damage overall than even a Soldier? That's what they're their for (the only reason they exist) and yet they're totally outclassed by a class of characters who get to both be invisible and pack the biggest punch, where for every other class one generally makes a decision between either or, how do infiltrators being given all the best perks with none of the weaknesses count as anything besides OP?

One shot breaks the cloak, one shot doesn't break AR. Your point is?

[Lucius Aelius]

.....Since when did Adrenaline Rush start comparing to Tactical Cloak? Don't get me wrong, it should, but it most certainly doesn't as it stands. Yes it has gotten better with the buffs, but there's a ways to go yet to make it the equal of TC.

[Lucius Aelius]

^And not to mention that multiple shots get the damage bonus from breaking cloak, not just the shot that breaks it, if they fixed that then the powers would be much more comparable

[LULZferBAKON]

Immortal Strife wrote...

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

The fool you should have eaten wrote...

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

Honestly a nerf down to 15% IS unreasonable.

I do agree that TC needs a rebalance BADLY. However I think THIS would be the more reasonable change.

Change Rank 4 damage bonus from 90% to 65%
Change Rank 6 sniper rifle damage bonus from 40% flat damage TO 40% HEADSHOT damage bonus.

Those changes would bring the Tactical Cloak skill down a notch WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY nerfing the Krysae WITHOUT actually nerfing the Krysae!

Anyone agree?

:wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WARNING: Space Magic is involved in this post!!!

PAY ATTENTION! I have a decent suggestion with a GOOD compramise!

I need not read anymore.  A consesus had been reached.   This is the best course of action and has the most balance.  Unfortunately it is likely that you will be ignored.  Oh well, you tried to inspire reason in the masses.  You are amongst the few.

That's ok, I'm ignored most of the time anyway. Especially when I have a good idea for how to actually balance everything out and reach a good comprimise for EVERYONE without actually killing a gun or a class.

Talon can you please explain how your suggestion skirts shieldgate, and the fact that heavy armored units do not have headshot damage bonuses? Was your intent, to greatly reduce the effectiveness of snipers on infiltrators? IMO the 40% headshot damage is better utilized on every weapon other then powerful snipers? Do you think all snipers should be utilized on the Human Soldier Build instead of the infiltrator class?

Just wondering.

Simply make sniper headshots go through shieldgate and give the bosses non-obvious, difficult to hit weakpoints.  Shoot a kink in the armor, like an unarmored joint.  Shoot one of those tubes on a Prime, etc.

[GaryMaple]

The only thing I want is for Tactical Cloak to be used tactically rather a mere damage boost. The entire power could use a second look in my opinion.
Most of the powers and abilities don't really have you making any big decisions when it comes to how your character plays and how the power is utilized in my opinion.

[hearydiver]

DO IT.

[xX 7heGuy Xx]

I believe ALL the classes need an overhaul, not just infiltrators or TC. All i want is balance and have the feeling that EVERY character is equally important and valuable to the team. As it is now, some classes are able to be built to be successful in all scenarios while other struggle to do there intended purpose. I believe to truly balance this multiplayer, your going to need to change racial stats and passive powers to truly reflect there role. Maybe krogans getting more passive shotgun damage or all engineers having faster objective capture times or someone being able to upgrade revive times stuff along the lines of that. Changes like that will make the game more rpg and allow all characters more noticeable contribution to their team.

OT, the infiltrator is to effective in to many ways. Idc if there good at capturing stuff just they should sacrifice there high damage ability to achieve it. That way they can be potentially great in all these areas, just not all at once.

note: Im not the greatest at writing so i apologize if how i worded stuff is confusing and very addish.

[Apl_Juice]

DNC Protoman wrote...

I'm talking the 90% damage boost becomes 15%.

While I agree with the reasoning, this sentence makes this idea a massive 'Do not Want'.

[DNC Protoman]

It will finally come to pass. With this my friends, the dark nerfer empire falls. TC must die, so the nerfers lose all thier agruments.

[DNC Protoman]

I'm so glad that Bioware has finally seen the light.

You can't balance the game around a 130% damage bonus. all other classes would suck then. Good job on seeing the light Bioware.

this paves the way for true balance and buffs my friends. You will see.

[a ViciousFerret]

It looks like Tactical Cloak was glitched this whole time too anyway.

Rank 6 Sniper bonus was supposed to be an additive bonus according to the developers, whilst in game it is clearly shown to be multiplicative.

reference: http://social.biowar...3470/2#12684947

[-Event-Horizon-]

DNC Protoman wrote...

I'm so glad that Bioware has finally seen the light.

You can't balance the game around a 130% damage bonus. all other classes would suck then. Good job on seeing the light Bioware.

this paves the way for true balance and buffs my friends. You will see.

This