497 réponses à ce sujet

[deadpixel92]

I noticed that all the people that want TC nerfed loves the Krysae and dont want it nerfed which is stupid because that weapon is clearly unbalanced, so for the people that want TC nerfed just DEAL WITH IT and instead of crying over the forums enjoy your last week of your clearly unbalanced Krysae. TC cloack is ok and doesnt need a nerf, without the damage boost infiltrators would be worthless.

[capn233]

Immortal Strife wrote...

How does headshot damage solve anything when headshots do not skirt shieldgate-and bosses don't have headshot damage gains.

It would mean even less people actually rank TC to past 4.  That's what it would do.  Unless they made the GP damage bonus so low that you had to take your headshot bonus just to kill something with a rifle...

[Schneidend]

Drummernate wrote...

If they nerf Tactical Cloak, then Hunter Mode won't be far behind since it gives a 25% universal bonus.... making my Geth worthless in the process.

No thanks.

Toning down the GI from its lofty heights of demigodhood =/= making it worthless.

[LULZferBAKON]

dgumb wrote...

sareth_65536 wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

All I see(for the 80th time)is this, tactical cloak, WAAAAAAAAAAA Stop your crying

all I see is infiltrators' posts "TC is fine don't fix" Stop your blindness

I'm not primarily an infiltrator player and I think TC is fine, and doesn't need a fix.

Here's the thing, in a game with classes that have as many variables as ME3 one class is going to be the best at using guns. It's the infiltrator class. Why do people complain that some other class isn't as effective at using weapons as the infiltrator class is?

What's next, infiltrators complaining that they aren't as good at biotic explosions and asking for AAs to be nerfed so that they can't self detonate?

The Soldiers are suppose to be the weapon class, ever since ME1 they have been about that.  They could use every gun, they had marksman, carnage, overkill, and assassinate.  They had access to those weapons in ME2, they had the ammo powers to improve those weapons, they still have ammo powers in ME3 as well as a low reliance on powers, thus encouraging them to use the heavy weapons.

Infiltrators are half-combat, so they should be good with weapons, just not better than the soldier, who is all-combat.

[Immortal Strife]

xROLLxTIDEx wrote...

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

Honestly a nerf down to 15% IS unreasonable.

I do agree that TC needs a rebalance BADLY. However I think THIS would be the more reasonable change.

Change Rank 4 damage bonus from 90% to 65%
Change Rank 6 sniper rifle damage bonus from 40% flat damage TO 40% HEADSHOT damage bonus.

Those changes would bring the Tactical Cloak skill down a notch WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY nerfing the Krysae WITHOUT actually nerfing the Krysae!

Anyone agree?

:wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WARNING: Space Magic is involved in this post!!!

PAY ATTENTION! I have a decent suggestion with a GOOD compramise!

This in Bold.  The +90% damage in 4 should be dropped to 70% so that the soldier and infiltrator classes get the same damage bonuses.  The soldier gets to use AR for a longer duration, but TC allows the infiltrator to dump aggro.  And then the +40% damage bonus in rank 6 should be headshot bonus or just 20-25% sniper damage bonus.  I'd prefer the headshot bonus to reward players for being skilled at getting headshots.

Again headshots mean nothing when shieldgate stops any exta damage, and bosses have no headshot damage gains. So please try again.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 06 juin 2012 - 07:11 .

[Ramsutin]

Immortal Strife wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Implying every single person that wants a nerf plays Infiltrators.

Nerfing TC into the ground will fix exactly nothing. It will, however, make people more inclined to go to flock to biotic slinging classes to get quick kills. As if we don't have enough of those already.

The only viable fix would be to convert most (not all) of the current damage bonuses into headshot bonuses. This would bring most of the skill back to being a Sniper class, and it would weaken weapons that aren't capable of getting headshots.

How does headshot damage solve anything when headshots do not skirt shieldgate-and bosses don't have headshot damage gains.

^This. Headshots are meaningless now. Bosses don't have them, mobs don't need one.

[Lee80]

Immortal Strife wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Implying every single person that wants a nerf plays Infiltrators.

Nerfing TC into the ground will fix exactly nothing. It will, however, make people more inclined to go to flock to biotic slinging classes to get quick kills. As if we don't have enough of those already.

The only viable fix would be to convert most (not all) of the current damage bonuses into headshot bonuses. This would bring most of the skill back to being a Sniper class, and it would weaken weapons that aren't capable of getting headshots.

How does headshot damage solve anything when headshots do not skirt shieldgate-and bosses don't have headshot damage gains.

Agreed.  Specing cloak around head shot damage would mean the class is only able to fight against non bosses effectively.  

[Kingston Atticus]

Traim Eisenblut wrote...

DNC Protoman wrote...

Traim Eisenblut wrote...

lol, Turian Sentinels are so screwed being able to prime Tech and Biotic combos... poor guys.

you fail to see the point

No, you fail to understand the games basics.
Weapons are not balanced according to Infiltrators. The gunbalance sucks because BioWare has no clue what they are doing. Infiltrators being OP or not.

I prefer Area Reave and Cluster Grenades anyways, killstreaks ftw.

They kind of are because the majority of nerfers only play infiltrator

[DiebytheSword]

Gockey wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

Mojenator12345 wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

If TC is severely slashed, Sniper rifles would need to be seriously buffed, lest they become useless.

That's kind of the whole idea.  Neft TC, buff the weapons, restore balance to the force.

So that the soldier and AA become as good, if not better snipers than the sniper class?  I totally see your point dude.  I switch sides, like right now.

I laughed. :happy:

That being said, I don't think any reasonable person wants to make infiltrators a worse sniper than a soldier or an adept.  (Well maybe my justicar ).  It just needs to be toned down.  Damage wise the Krysae doesn't hit like a mac truck like the javelin does.  But it does ensure you need not do more than cursory aiming.  No other gun has these smart AoE shots.  I fire at the horizon and it stops next to that cloaked hunter for a free stagger and a broken shield.  Hooray!

130% is a litte much when combined with loadouts (especially the new gear).  

Sure, this fixes the Krysae issue, but then it totally breaks the Valiant, Viper and Raptor, possibly the Black Widow as well.  You'd be reducing them to pea shooters.  Increasing their damage to compensate breaks them again, making them viable guns for all classes rather than the Infiltrator.

I'm not sure I'll ever be convinced that a TC nerf will fix the problem and not introduce others.

[FreeshootXiggy]

Ramsutin wrote...

Traim Eisenblut wrote...

I think DNC Protoman should be nerfed to not be able to lvl above lvl 5. That would make the game balanced.

+1

+1

[Immortal Strife]

Lee80alabama wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Implying every single person that wants a nerf plays Infiltrators.

Nerfing TC into the ground will fix exactly nothing. It will, however, make people more inclined to go to flock to biotic slinging classes to get quick kills. As if we don't have enough of those already.

The only viable fix would be to convert most (not all) of the current damage bonuses into headshot bonuses. This would bring most of the skill back to being a Sniper class, and it would weaken weapons that aren't capable of getting headshots.

How does headshot damage solve anything when headshots do not skirt shieldgate-and bosses don't have headshot damage gains.

Agreed.  Specing cloak around head shot damage would mean the class is only able to fight against non bosses effectively.  

Not even, it would only be benificial against redbar health enemies.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 06 juin 2012 - 07:11 .

[Ramsutin]

People who call nerfing on TC, try to understand if that happens who the hell would like to volunteer to be a medic? No one. The idea of TC is to make Infiltrators viable option over others.

[Drummernate]

Schneidend wrote...

Drummernate wrote...

If they nerf Tactical Cloak, then Hunter Mode won't be far behind since it gives a 25% universal bonus.... making my Geth worthless in the process.

No thanks.

Toning down the GI from its lofty heights of demigodhood =/= making it worthless.

So nerfing everything about the easiest class to kill in the game =/= making it worthless?...

My guess is a 60% damage bonus from cloak and a 15% damage bonus to Hunter Mode plus a 10% movement speed increase instead of 20% if they nerf it.

Making most of the builds with it nearly worthless.

(Melee?... Sorry, now it takes 5 instead of 2!)

Modifié par Drummernate, 06 juin 2012 - 07:03 .

[DiebytheSword]

Ramsutin wrote...

People who call nerfing on TC, try to understand if that happens who the hell would like to volunteer to be a medic? No one. The idea of TC is to make Infiltrators viable option over others.

Heh, as a D&D vet, I can verify that no one really wants to be the cleric.

[OblivionDawn]

Immortal Strife wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Implying every single person that wants a nerf plays Infiltrators.

Nerfing TC into the ground will fix exactly nothing. It will, however, make people more inclined to go to flock to biotic slinging classes to get quick kills. As if we don't have enough of those already.

The only viable fix would be to convert most (not all) of the current damage bonuses into headshot bonuses. This would bring most of the skill back to being a Sniper class, and it would weaken weapons that aren't capable of getting headshots.

How does headshot damage solve anything when headshots do not skirt shieldgate-and bosses don't have headshot damage gains.

The shieldgate is a moot point, no matter what kind of damage bonus you have, you aren't going to penetrate it with a single shot.

As for the bosses, Infiltrators would have to rely on teammates, powers, and/or kiting to take them down after a change like this. Headshots aren't the only way to kill a boss.

[capn233]

Ramsutin wrote...

People who call nerfing on TC, try to understand if that happens who the hell would like to volunteer to be a medic? No one. The idea of TC is to make Infiltrators viable option over others.

Actually most of these individuals want the invisibility to stay the same so that infiltrators can just hang out and revive them when they do something idiotic.  They think Infiltrators are supposed to be medics.

[smokesheller87]

DNC Protoman wrote...

As the Nerfers are out for blood on the new weps, i think it's time thier TC got nerfed.

Nerfed into the ground.

I'm talking the 90% damage boost becomes 15%.

Once that happens the infilitrator class can no longer prevent weps like the 2 rares we just got from being created.  it will alow unique and usefull weapons to be introduced and existing options buffed slightly or greatly to make them relevant. 

We can't allow these silver-playing TC abusing Nerfers to prevent Bioware from making weapons actually usefull.

I and the other sane members of this community must therefore make the sacrifce.  - take our TC Bioware.  Make it so infiltrators don't dominate in weapon damage.  Make it so one ability on one class doesn' dictate weapon balance.

TC must be nerfed for the greater good, this must happen before the Nerfers make every class other than Infiltartor pointless.

This made me laugh, if this were to ever happen, AR would have to be mega nerfed as well since AR can give a 70% damage boost. And also have to take into consideration how out of balance this would make the game, lower this damage boost, lower the damage from all bursts/explosions to compensate. Just my thoughts on all of these annoying nerfers wanting to basically remove Infis(remove soldiers while you're at it if you're complaining about a 90% damage boost to everything and 130% with snipers)

Or...

You can stop making all of these "Nerf TC!" threads and enjoy the game, seeing as it's made to work together with other people to achieve the same goal

[LULZferBAKON]

Alright, lemme make a suggestion to counter 'bosses don't have headshots' and 'shieldgate!'

Change headshots so they allow some damage to go past shieldgate, not all of it if its that overpowered, but enough to make it viable.
Give bosses weakpoints, not headshots or anything super big, but kinks in the armor. Sneak a bullet into an unarmored part of an Atlas's joint, Rupture one of those tubes on a Geth Prime, etc.

Sniper Rifles should revolve around skill, they should naturally do an insane amount of damage when hitting an enemy where it hurts, not because some power allows them to.

[Immortal Strife]

@ DNC Protoman

I honestly have not seen one useful or intelligent post from you. All you do it respond with snide remarks, I've come to realize that your sole reason for being on the forum is to troll.

[capn233]

OblivionDawn wrote...
As for the bosses, Infiltrators would have to rely on teammates, powers, and/or kiting to take them down after a change like this. Headshots aren't the only way to kill a boss.

Ridiculous. What do you think they are doing now?  One-shoting Banshees, Atlases, and Primes?

[DaDiddles]

I often wondered why weapons as a whole feel underpowered. Now it makes sense, because they are balanced based off tactical cloak.

I think the proposed changes by OP are a tad much, but something should happen to cloak for sure. One possible solution is to have the damage bonus from cloak decrease over time. So the first shot that breaks the cloak has the full damage bonus, while 1-2 seconds later it drops to 50% bonus, and by the time the cloak damage bonus time is almost up you only have 10%-20% extra damage.

[dgumb]

LULZferBAKON wrote...

The Soldiers are suppose to be the weapon class, ever since ME1 they have been about that.  They could use every gun, they had marksman, carnage, overkill, and assassinate.  They had access to those weapons in ME2, they had the ammo powers to improve those weapons, they still have ammo powers in ME3 as well as a low reliance on powers, thus encouraging them to use the heavy weapons.

Infiltrators are half-combat, so they should be good with weapons, just not better than the soldier, who is all-combat.

In my mind the soldier trades some weapon damage (they still get 70% with AR for humans, more accuracy for turians, etc.) for more shields and health. They are still unarguably the second best weapon damage class, with other utility.

Though I think it was a mistake allowing all weapons to be used by all classes, which was the most unique thing about soldiers in previous ME games.

[DiebytheSword]

LULZferBAKON wrote...

Alright, lemme make a suggestion to counter 'bosses don't have headshots' and 'shieldgate!'

Change headshots so they allow some damage to go past shieldgate, not all of it if its that overpowered, but enough to make it viable.
Give bosses weakpoints, not headshots or anything super big, but kinks in the armor. Sneak a bullet into an unarmored part of an Atlas's joint, Rupture one of those tubes on a Geth Prime, etc.

Sniper Rifles should revolve around skill, they should naturally do an insane amount of damage when hitting an enemy where it hurts, not because some power allows them to.

This is reasonable, and I'd be down for a nerf of the TC if these were implemented.  It preserves the sniper aspect.

[landylan]

15% may be a bit much but it does need a nerf....i want the rocket lock on problem where i get shot from across the map while cloaked fixed though. tactical cloak will never get nerfed

[capn233]

dgumb wrote...

In my mind the soldier trades some weapon damage (they still get 70% with AR for humans, more accuracy for turians, etc.) for more shields and health. They are still unarguably the second best weapon damage class, with other utility.

Though I think it was a mistake allowing all weapons to be used by all classes, which was the most unique thing about soldiers in previous ME games.

In reality as the pure combat class, Soldier should be hands down the best with weapons, at least across the board.  Right now it is sort of DPS on Soldier vs Burst for Infiltrator, but given that Burst is actually "better," the balance is whonky.

I realize that Infiltrator's have been better with SR's in ME1 and were arguably equivalent or superior (depending on point of view) in ME2, but that doesn't mean they necessarily should be better with shotguns or the other weapons.