Immortal Strife wrote...
@ DNC Protoman
I honestly have not seen one useful or intelligent post from you. All you do it respond with snide remarks, I've come to realize that your sole reason for being on the forum is to troll.
That was because of the cry-baby adepts, which basically caused them to screw up the combat mechanics of ME3.dgumb wrote...
Though I think it was a mistake allowing all weapons to be used by all classes, which was the most unique thing about soldiers in previous ME games.
Ramsutin wrote...
People who call nerfing on TC, try to understand if that happens who the hell would like to volunteer to be a medic? No one. The idea of TC is to make Infiltrators viable option over others.
I agree.dgumb wrote...
LULZferBAKON wrote...
The Soldiers are suppose to be the weapon class, ever since ME1 they have been about that. They could use every gun, they had marksman, carnage, overkill, and assassinate. They had access to those weapons in ME2, they had the ammo powers to improve those weapons, they still have ammo powers in ME3 as well as a low reliance on powers, thus encouraging them to use the heavy weapons.
Infiltrators are half-combat, so they should be good with weapons, just not better than the soldier, who is all-combat.
In my mind the soldier trades some weapon damage (they still get 70% with AR for humans, more accuracy for turians, etc.) for more shields and health. They are still unarguably the second best weapon damage class, with other utility.
Though I think it was a mistake allowing all weapons to be used by all classes, which was the most unique thing about soldiers in previous ME games.
capn233 wrote...
Ridiculous. What do you think they are doing now? One-shoting Banshees, Atlases, and Primes?OblivionDawn wrote...
As for the bosses, Infiltrators would have to rely on teammates, powers, and/or kiting to take them down after a change like this. Headshots aren't the only way to kill a boss.
DaDiddles wrote...
I often wondered why weapons as a whole feel underpowered. Now it makes sense, because they are balanced based off tactical cloak.
I think the proposed changes by OP are a tad much, but something should happen to cloak for sure. One possible solution is to have the damage bonus from cloak decrease over time. So the first shot that breaks the cloak has the full damage bonus, while 1-2 seconds later it drops to 50% bonus, and by the time the cloak damage bonus time is almost up you only have 10%-20% extra damage.
If it was only possible to do massive damage with the Biotic or Tech classes...OblivionDawn wrote...
They might as well be. They're doing ridiculous damage compared to most other classes.
capn233 wrote...
In reality as the pure combat class, Soldier should be hands down the best with weapons, at least across the board. Right now it is sort of DPS on Soldier vs Burst for Infiltrator, but given that Burst is actually "better," the balance is whonky.
I realize that Infiltrator's have been better with SR's in ME1 and were arguably equivalent or superior (depending on point of view) in ME2, but that doesn't mean they necessarily should be better with shotguns or the other weapons.
Just because Soldiers are trained in all all weapons does not mean they have mastered all weapons. An Infiltrator should always be better with a Sniper than a soldier. If ever there was a weapon that required additional firearm training compared to others (though to a lesser degree for shotguns), it's a sniper.capn233 wrote...
In reality as the pure combat class, Soldier should be hands down the best with weapons, at least across the board. Right now it is sort of DPS on Soldier vs Burst for Infiltrator, but given that Burst is actually "better," the balance is whonky.dgumb wrote...
In my mind the soldier trades some weapon damage (they still get 70% with AR for humans, more accuracy for turians, etc.) for more shields and health. They are still unarguably the second best weapon damage class, with other utility.
Though I think it was a mistake allowing all weapons to be used by all classes, which was the most unique thing about soldiers in previous ME games.
I realize that Infiltrator's have been better with SR's in ME1 and were arguably equivalent or superior (depending on point of view) in ME2, but that doesn't mean they necessarily should be better with shotguns or the other weapons.
Modifié par Fox-snipe, 06 juin 2012 - 07:18 .
capn233 wrote...
If it was only possible to do massive damage with the Biotic or Tech classes...OblivionDawn wrote...
They might as well be. They're doing ridiculous damage compared to most other classes.
Fox-snipe wrote...
Just because Soldiers are trained in all all weapons does not mean they have mastered all weapons. An Infiltrator should always be better with a Sniper than a soldier. If ever there was a weapon that required additional firearm training compared to pistols, SMGs, assault rifles and shotguns (though to a lesser degree), it's a sniper.capn233 wrote...
In reality as the pure combat class, Soldier should be hands down the best with weapons, at least across the board. Right now it is sort of DPS on Soldier vs Burst for Infiltrator, but given that Burst is actually "better," the balance is whonky.dgumb wrote...
In my mind the soldier trades some weapon damage (they still get 70% with AR for humans, more accuracy for turians, etc.) for more shields and health. They are still unarguably the second best weapon damage class, with other utility.
Though I think it was a mistake allowing all weapons to be used by all classes, which was the most unique thing about soldiers in previous ME games.
I realize that Infiltrator's have been better with SR's in ME1 and were arguably equivalent or superior (depending on point of view) in ME2, but that doesn't mean they necessarily should be better with shotguns or the other weapons.
I agree, and really I think Infiltrator should remain "superior" with SR's, at least the low ROF ones. If only the Viper wasn't completely terrible this time around.Fox-snipe wrote...
Just because Soldiers are trained in all all weapons does not mean they have mastered all weapons. An Infiltrator should always be better with a Sniper than a soldier. If ever there was a weapon that required additional firearm training compared to pistols, SMGs, assault rifles and shotguns (though to a lesser degree), it's a sniper.
Modifié par capn233, 06 juin 2012 - 07:22 .
Modifié par Striker93175, 06 juin 2012 - 08:06 .
DNC Protoman wrote...
Immortal Strife wrote...
@ DNC Protoman
I honestly have not seen one useful or intelligent post from you. All you do it respond with snide remarks, I've come to realize that your sole reason for being on the forum is to troll.
I have stated my case clearly and if you can't understand it I am sorry for you.
Modifié par Immortal Strife, 06 juin 2012 - 07:23 .
Immortal Strife wrote...
DaDiddles wrote...
I often wondered why weapons as a whole feel underpowered. Now it makes sense, because they are balanced based off tactical cloak.
I think the proposed changes by OP are a tad much, but something should happen to cloak for sure. One possible solution is to have the damage bonus from cloak decrease over time. So the first shot that breaks the cloak has the full damage bonus, while 1-2 seconds later it drops to 50% bonus, and by the time the cloak damage bonus time is almost up you only have 10%-20% extra damage.
This is not a bad ideal, actually. Thumbs up!
Heavens forbid there be "signature weapons" for each class type.Gockey wrote...
DiebytheSword wrote...
If TC is severely slashed, Sniper rifles would need to be seriously buffed, lest they become useless.
Which would help make them a more viable loadout option for other classes as well, ensuring that homogenization we all love in games. /sarcasm
Then maybe you should try to actually come up with a reasoning rather than "Nerf the thing!".As I've stated before, not sure what changes should be made. Just sure that changes need to be made. A nerf to TC in incoming. The degree of severity is the only question.
Vanguard with a sniper rifle, are you serious? We actually have to manage our weapon weight thank you very much.ThirdChild ZKI wrote...
Infiltrators are designed for long range, as such, the most effective way for them to play is by positioning themselves to have either a wide field of vision to see enemies, or to setup a "restriction" against enemies (good example: top of the stairs on Firebase Ghost, facing the spawn point down the hallway). This is why they get so many kills. They get eyes on targets first.
As far as sniping goes, why can't other classes do the same? I utilize my turrets as an Engineer to draw enemies from cover or tack on damage, even distract Banshees while I sight in on them. An adept (using special ammo) could easily setup tech bursts through effective sniping + power use, or a Vanguard could drop shields with a shot, then use their charge ability they love so much, lol.
I didn't intend to break into a tactical discussion, only to say Infiltrators aren't overpowered or the best due to TC. Any class can outsnipe/outperform an Infiltrator, but the player has to be willing to be flexible and try different strategies.
capn233 wrote...
I agree, and really I think Infiltrator should remain "superior" with SR's, at least the low ROF ones. If only the Viper wasn't completely terrible this time around.
Part of the problem with Soldier is that there just isn't enough weight capacity. Really they should have double weight capacity, but relatively insensitive cooldowns that do not give as large a penalty or bonus for going over or under. Which means no CS every 1s or ARush in 3s.
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