You know, those weird elves that lived in Arlathan times, that suddenly became canon during 9:30-35 Dragon.
Voice your opinion, please:
http://social.biowar...77/polls/34907/
Fenris, descendant of the famed Giraffe Elves?
Débuté par
Salaya
, juin 06 2012 08:49
#1
Posté 06 juin 2012 - 08:49
Salaya
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You know, those weird elves that lived in Arlathan times, that suddenly became canon during 9:30-35 Dragon.
Voice your opinion, please:
http://social.biowar...77/polls/34907/
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 06 juin 2012 - 09:03
CuriousArtemis
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Haha ... yeah the elf necks in DA2 are pretty ridiculous xD I hate this scene in particular. It's supposed to be an intense moment for poor Fenris but I get distracted by the giraffe neck.
#4
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Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:48
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This is why they should have left well enough alone with DA2 elves. They looked fine in DA2, or at least being slightly shorter, thinner and pointier in ear to humans was just fine a racial difference. Going out of their way to make them look as unhuman as possible just made them look inhuman.
Adding tons of new animal features made them look like animal people. I personally think they look like deer people (thin, bony, long skinny limbs, giant eyes, no break in the nose, the shape of the ears) the way the Kossith look like oxmen, but now that you mentioned it, the elongated necks look like giraffes too. XP
Adding tons of new animal features made them look like animal people. I personally think they look like deer people (thin, bony, long skinny limbs, giant eyes, no break in the nose, the shape of the ears) the way the Kossith look like oxmen, but now that you mentioned it, the elongated necks look like giraffes too. XP
#5
Posté 20 juin 2012 - 04:03
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a swamp elf! run!!! At least they are not Elder Scroll elves....
#6
Posté 20 juin 2012 - 04:18
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Faerunner wrote...
This is why they should have left well enough alone with DA2 elves. They looked fine in DA2, or at least being slightly shorter, thinner and pointier in ear to humans was just fine a racial difference. Going out of their way to make them look as unhuman as possible just made them look inhuman.
Adding tons of new animal features made them look like animal people. I personally think they look like deer people (thin, bony, long skinny limbs, giant eyes, no break in the nose, the shape of the ears) the way the Kossith look like oxmen, but now that you mentioned it, the elongated necks look like giraffes too. XP
I actually think the kossith 2.0 are lovely; I think they did a terrific job with reimagining those guys (and presumably girls). They have horns and white mane-like hair, gray skin, and small ox-like eyes ... but they are still clearly people, and you can imagine meeting such a person in real life.
The DA2 elves just didn't seem to quite hit that mark. To me, they must have been shooting for something similar to the Na'vi in Avatar (did I spell that right?). Say what you will about the cliched plot or the white hero trope, but the Na'vi themselves are a lovely creation and seem like real people. They have physical characteristics that relate to their environment, but they are not so weird-looking that we balked at the thought of a human falling in love with one.
#7
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Posté 20 juin 2012 - 06:31
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motomotogirl wrote...
Faerunner wrote...
This is why they should have left well enough alone with DA2 elves. They looked fine in DA2, or at least being slightly shorter, thinner and pointier in ear to humans was just fine a racial difference. Going out of their way to make them look as unhuman as possible just made them look inhuman.
Adding tons of new animal features made them look like animal people. I personally think they look like deer people (thin, bony, long skinny limbs, giant eyes, no break in the nose, the shape of the ears) the way the Kossith look like oxmen, but now that you mentioned it, the elongated necks look like giraffes too. XP
I actually think the kossith 2.0 are lovely; I think they did a terrific job with reimagining those guys (and presumably girls). They have horns and white mane-like hair, gray skin, and small ox-like eyes ... but they are still clearly people, and you can imagine meeting such a person in real life.
The DA2 elves just didn't seem to quite hit that mark. To me, they must have been shooting for something similar to the Na'vi in Avatar (did I spell that right?). Say what you will about the cliched plot or the white hero trope, but the Na'vi themselves are a lovely creation and seem like real people. They have physical characteristics that relate to their environment, but they are not so weird-looking that we balked at the thought of a human falling in love with one.
I don't know. Going out of their way to make elves and kossith look like walking deer and oxen (respectively) while allowing dwarves and humans to look like average people we all see in real life seems really inconsistent to me.
With that said, I have to agree that I think they did a better job of keeping the kossith very humanized despite their outlandish features. So little is conveyed with their stoicism, and yet so much is understood. And I have to admit, they look freaking awesome. (And I REALLY want to play a female kossith! Dx)
With elves, it just felt like the devs went out of their way to dehumanize them so thoroughly that they succeeded in ways they shouldn't have... I can't explain. People complained that elves looked too much like pointy-eared humans? They tried to make them look as far from human as possible--to the point of almost not treating them or portraying them as human. Does that make sense? Something about them seems emotionally and psychologically off, and not just the physical features. (Though I still think they're hideous as all get out! Dx)
Modifié par Faerunner, 20 juin 2012 - 07:41 .
#8
Posté 20 juin 2012 - 05:39
Face of Evil
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DAO dwarves don't look much like regular people. They're much stockier than humans of the same size and have those long orangutan arms.
Modifié par Face of Evil, 20 juin 2012 - 05:40 .
#9
Posté 20 juin 2012 - 05:52
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Faerunner wrote...
With elves, it just felt like the devs went out of their way to dehumanize them so thoroughly that they succeeded in ways they shouldn't have... I can't explain. People complained that elves looked too much like pointy-eared humans? They tried to make them look as far from human as possible--to the point of almost not treating them or portraying them as human. Does that make sense? Something about them seems emotionally and psychologically off, and not just the physical features. (Though I still think they're hideous as all get out! Dx)
Well, you have the whole vibe going on that many human men lust after "beautiful" elven women. And it's sick and appalling because the elves are an oppressed people (oppressed by humans) and brings to mind all our own history of the oppressed praying upon the weak, of the white slave owner abusing the black slave woman, and you think, bravo BW, that is some serious stuff and I am grateful that you slipped that into the game and made me think about this very serious topic.
And then you see the elven women, and you're like, HOLY SH!T WHO WOULD WANT TO SLEEP WITH THAT THING?!
They have the giraffe necks, yes, and then also the thin arms ... painfully, unnaturally thin arms. Their faces are like deer or sheep ... oval-shaped and pointed towards the end as if they have snouts instead of mouths. Their eyes are large and deer-like. And the heads are clearly too big for the shoulders.
Merrill and Fenris are pretty, and some few others obviously were worked on dutifully; Marethari and Athenril, for instance. But NPC elves are hideous. I tried switching out Merrill's face (for variety's sake) with some of the other Dalish women or even the women at the Pearl ... and it was nightmarish. NIGHTMARISH.
Face of Evil wrote...
DAO dwarves don't look much like regular people. They're much stockier than humans of the same size and have those long orangutan arms.
I started a Noble Dwarf origin recently and have had to stop playing it because I am soooo bothered by her oranguatan arms ... I don't even know how Alistair is supposed to fall in love with monkey-girl here >.<
#10
Posté 20 juin 2012 - 06:53
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motomotogirl wrote...
And then you see the elven women, and you're like, HOLY SH!T WHO WOULD WANT TO SLEEP WITH THAT THING?!
They have the giraffe necks, yes, and then also the thin arms ... painfully, unnaturally thin arms. Their faces are like deer or sheep ... oval-shaped and pointed towards the end as if they have snouts instead of mouths. Their eyes are large and deer-like. And the heads are clearly too big for the shoulders.
I found most of the elves attractive. Sure, some of them are ugly, but some humans are pretty ugly too.
motomotogirl wrote...
I started a Noble Dwarf origin recently and have had to stop playing it because I am soooo bothered by her oranguatan arms ... I don't even know how Alistair is supposed to fall in love with monkey-girl here >.<
See here.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 20 juin 2012 - 06:56 .
#11
Posté 20 juin 2012 - 07:03
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I understand that there are some elves better designed than others. Yes, Fenris, Marethari and Merrill have some pretty hard work on them..., but even those, had unnatural and extremely weird traits that I feel alien (the neck and the weird, weird nose, especially).
#12
Posté 21 juin 2012 - 02:06
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Yeah, and you have to wonder why with the time constraints they had making DA II that they spent some of it on that elf redesign...
#13
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Posté 21 juin 2012 - 07:29
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I agree. The first game did an amazing job of portraying the racism and abuse between humans and elves in DA:O as a parable to racism and abuse as it happens in real life. By changing the elves to look like animals, it almost changes the dynamic of humans and elves to be that of farmers and farm animals instead of racist majorities with subjugated minorities.motomotogirl wrote...
Well, you have the whole vibe going on that many human men lust after "beautiful" elven women. And it's sick and appalling because the elves are an oppressed people (oppressed by humans) and brings to mind all our own history of the oppressed praying upon the weak, of the white slave owner abusing the black slave woman, and you think, bravo BW, that is some serious stuff and I am grateful that you slipped that into the game and made me think about this very serious topic.
Seriously. They look like animals and they're treated like animals. They're ugly yet humans find them sexy. Wut?motomotogirl wrote...
And then you see the elven women, and you're like, HOLY SH!T WHO WOULD WANT TO SLEEP WITH THAT THING?!
They have the giraffe necks, yes, and then also the thin arms ... painfully, unnaturally thin arms. Their faces are like deer or sheep ... oval-shaped and pointed towards the end as if they have snouts instead of mouths. Their eyes are large and deer-like. And the heads are clearly too big for the shoulders.
I believe you. Merrill and Fenris look pretty DESPITE the new elvish features, not BECAUSE of them. Bioware has to put in a lot of time and effort to make their elves look half-way decent despite the inherit ugliness of the design. Why not save themselves the time and trouble by just giving them features that are inherently less hideous so they can spend more time working on other parts of the game without breaking their own lore about humans finding elves attractive/alluring?motomotogirl wrote...
Merrill and Fenris are pretty, and some few others obviously were worked on dutifully; Marethari and Athenril, for instance. But NPC elves are hideous. I tried switching out Merrill's face (for variety's sake) with some of the other Dalish women or even the women at the Pearl ... and it was nightmarish. NIGHTMARISH.
Face of Evil wrote...
DAO dwarves don't look much like regular people. They're much stockier than humans of the same size and have those long orangutan arms.
You've never seen a short, stalky person with long arms? Dwarves may be shorter and stalkier with longer arms, but otherwise they look like regular people. Just think of Varric. Looking at pictures of him sitting or close up, you would think he was an average human. Nothing about his face or torso screams "NOT HUMAN!"
You can't say the same for elves or kossith in DA2. Of all physical features associated with Thedas races, you've probably never seen a 7-8ft person with deep bronze skin, white hair, lavender eyes and large ox-like horns on their heads. (Unless you went out trick-or-treating or went to a cosplay convention.) You've probably never seen a person with big deer eyes, long donkey ears that point sideways, a large bulbous head, a round forehead ending in a nose with no nasal bridge, said nose becoming small at the tip with little flaring nostiles like rabbit noses, all on top of an anorexcially thin, frail, angular, boney body.
Short and stocky isn't so inhuman by comparison, is it? Yet humans and dwarves both look like people, just with different statures (short and stocky versus tall and lanky) while elves and kossith look like "different" and "exotic" animal people. I call it inconsistent.
Modifié par Faerunner, 21 juin 2012 - 07:45 .
#14
Posté 21 juin 2012 - 07:56
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Faerunner wrote...
Seriously. They look like animals and they're treated like animals. They're ugly yet humans find them sexy. Wut?
Unless my parents were keeping some dark secret from me about my heritage, I'm human and I find quite a few of the elven women to be sexy.
Faerunner wrote...
You've never seen a short, stockier person with long arms? Dwarves may be shorter and stockier with longer
arms, but otherwise they look like regular people. Just think of Varric. Looking at pictures of him sitting or close up, you would think he was an average human. Nothing about his face or torso screams "NOT HUMAN!"
I don't think he looks like an average human. His head is too square and his chin is too large. He looks like a member of a race that is not human … which is how he SHOULD look.
Faerunner wrote...
You can't say the same for elves or kossith in DA2.
No, I can't. Which is exactly the point, me thinks. They're not supposed to look just like "short humans with pointy ears" or "tall humans with pointy ears."
Modifié par Face of Evil, 21 juin 2012 - 07:58 .
#15
Posté 21 juin 2012 - 08:11
CuriousArtemis
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DA2 elves look like prepubescent runway models with meathead-sized heads. As Alistair would say, "Creepy..."
#16
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Posté 21 juin 2012 - 08:42
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So many responses come to mind...Face of Evil wrote...
Unless my parents were keeping some dark secret from me about my heritage, I'm human and I find quite a few of the elven women to be sexy.
You've never seen a person with a square head or a large jaw?Face of Evil wrote...
I don't think he looks like an average human. His head is too square and his chin is too large. He looks like a member of a race that is not human ... which is how he SHOULD look.
Actually, I didn't even get "square" from his head. He just seemed to have a sloped forehead and a large jaw. I've encountered many men with smaller/sloped heads and larger jaws. He just looks like a really bulky guy to me, not a separate species like the ox or deer people. Why should he?
Why not? It's how they looked in the first game. It's how their social structure was set up in the first game. People with certain physical features interacting and subjugating people with different physical features. (Kind of like in real life.) Why are they "not supposed to look" like people with different physical features and bone structures? For what reason other than you don't like it?Face of Evil wrote...
Faerunner wrote...
You can't say the same for elves or kossith in DA2.
No, I can't. Which is exactly the point, me thinks. They're not supposed to look just like "short humans with pointy ears" or "tall humans with pointy ears."
Modifié par Faerunner, 21 juin 2012 - 08:46 .
#17
Posté 21 juin 2012 - 08:52
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Well, I did have an uncle named Arthur who set himself on fire after researching our family history. But I'm sure he was just under stress. 
Every time I look in the mirror, though I don't have the lantern jaw.
But Varric's head is too square, as are most of the dwarves. Look at Sandal. Could you mistake him for a human?
I think you missed my point there. I'm not saying "it's bad they look different from humans." I'm saying "they should look different from humans."
There were elves in DAO who I couldn't tell were elves because their hair covered their ears. This does not say good things about DAO's visual identity.
Faerunner wrote...
You've never seen a person with a square head or a large jaw?
Every time I look in the mirror, though I don't have the lantern jaw.
But Varric's head is too square, as are most of the dwarves. Look at Sandal. Could you mistake him for a human?
Faerunner wrote...
Why not? It's how they looked in the first game. It's how their social structure was set up in the first game. People with certain physical features interacting and subjugating people with different physical features. (Kind of like in real life.) Why are they "not supposed to look" like people with different physical features and bone structures? For what reason other than you don't like it?
I think you missed my point there. I'm not saying "it's bad they look different from humans." I'm saying "they should look different from humans."
There were elves in DAO who I couldn't tell were elves because their hair covered their ears. This does not say good things about DAO's visual identity.
Modifié par Face of Evil, 21 juin 2012 - 09:13 .
#18
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Posté 21 juin 2012 - 09:16
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Face of Evil wrote...
Every time I look in the mirror, though I don't have the lantern jaw.
But Varric's head is too square, as are most of the dwarves. Look at Sandal. Could you mistake him for a human?
Fine, lantern jaw. Just because you don't have it doesn't mean other people don't.
Sandal is pretty special even by dwarven standards. He actually does look like someone I once knew.
To be perfectly honest, I actually thought Sandal WAS a human kid that Bohdan picked up when I first encountered them in Lothering. It wasn't until I talked with them longer and took a closer look that I realized he was a dwarf and I felt really sheepish.
Face of Evil wrote...
I think you missed my point there. I'm not saying "it's bad they look different from humans." I'm saying "they should look different from humans."
Being short and stout, lithe and pointy-eared, or giant and exotically coloured as they were in DA:O wasn't enough?
They still had common physical characteristics that differentiated them from humans in the first game, it just wasn't as slap-you-upside-the-head obvious with a few races (elves as kossith) while still remaining somewhat subtle with others (as with dwarves) as it is in DA2.
#19
Posté 21 juin 2012 - 09:43
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Faerunner wrote...
Being short and stout, lithe and pointy-eared, or giant and exotically coloured as they were in DA:O wasn't enough?
They still had common physical characteristics that differentiated them from humans in the first game, it just wasn't as slap-you-upside-the-head obvious with a few races (elves as kossith) while still remaining somewhat subtle with others (as with dwarves) as it is in DA2.
"Exotically-coloured"? Sten's skin colour is the same as Isabela's. Or Snooki from Jersey Shore. Does this mean Snooki is actually a kossith?
I would say that elves, dwarves and qunari looking "slightly different than humans" doesn't much help the Dragon Age universe in trying to be something other than Lord of the Rings with the serial numbers filed off.
Look, neither of us is going to win this debate, as it comes down to personal tastes. You don't like how the elves and qunari look. I do. We might as well just retreat to our respective corners and call this boxing match a draw.
Modifié par Face of Evil, 21 juin 2012 - 10:25 .
#21
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Posté 22 juin 2012 - 07:45
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Face of Evil wrote...
"Exotically-coloured"? Sten's skin colour is the same as Isabela's. Or Snooki from Jersey Shore. Does this mean Snooki is actually a kossith?
I was refering to hair and eye colour too. Last I checked, neither Isabela nor Snooki had white hair or lavender eyes. Did you also forget the giant build I mentioned that would set them further apart from humans? (If you're going to attack my argument, please at least acknowledge my entire argument. Don't just cherry-pick.)
Face of Evil wrote...
I would say that elves, dwarves and qunari looking "slightly different than humans" doesn't much help the Dragon Age universe in trying to be something other than Lord of the Rings with the serial numbers filed off.
And I would say that turning some races into weird alien animal hybrid creatures to gawk at from a human protagonist as seen in Mass Effect doesn't help to make the Dragon Age universe to be anything other than Mass Effect with swords.
I would also say that falling back on the tired idea that race in a fantasy setting should mean "different species with different inherent personality traits and drastically different physical compositions" instead of "people with different physical and cultural characteristics" closer to how we see race conflicts in real life is making the game even closer to the Tolkien knock-offs than the first game. (Oh look, elves are back to being a race of passive, mystical archers that are inherently more in touch with magic and nature than any other race. How different from Tolkien's elves.)
Face of Evil wrote...
Look, neither of us is going to win this debate, as it comes down to personal tastes. You don't like how the elves and qunari look. I do. We might as well just retreat to our respective corners and call this boxing match a draw.
As long as we agree that it's personal taste and not fact. If you like walking deer and oxen, it's your thing.
Modifié par Faerunner, 23 juin 2012 - 05:14 .
#22
Posté 01 juillet 2012 - 01:09
LobselVith8
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BlackLotus30wrote...
At least they are not Elder Scroll elves...
I like the elves from the Elder Scrolls. The Skyrim design for the Dunmer harkens back to how they looked in Morrowind. And, more importantly, they can have beards.
While I thought Merrill, Fenris, and Athenril were done well, I'm not sure what happened to Zevran. Or why some elves were given a Nosferatu look. Have the developers addressed whether or not they intend to keep the new elf design?
#23
Posté 01 juillet 2012 - 01:33
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They have. They've said the new design is here to stay -- and really, I'm glad for that -- and would be tweaked if deemed necessary.
There ya go
Having not played Mass Effect, I'm not going to touch this whole "ME with swords" argument pointed towards the racial designs. I'll touch that critique on other aspects of DAII -- dialogue wheel -- but not racial aspects.
And frankly, for the Kossith their change makes sense per the lore. Kossith broodmothers create Ogres. Ogres have horns. Kossith were always originally intended to have horns, but DAO's engine couldn't handle it very well -- or they didn't have the time. Can't remember.
So now there's consistency on why Ogres who are born from Kossith broodmothers have horns. Because the majority of Kossith have horns.
Additionally, David Gaider himself has stated that should Sten reappear, he won't magically change into a horned Qunari. He'll still be hornless, as that's an element of Qunari society. There are horned and hornless Kossith, the latter being seen as special and destined for greatness.
So there's lore consistency and visual identity. Sten will look the same if we see him again and now it makes sense why Ogres have horns, because that's not something that can just magically appear out of nowhere, considering all Darkspawn are known to have traits reminiscent of the race that bore them.
Proof: The Dwarven codex on Darkspawn says that the Genlocks were "creatures in their own likeness". So the Ogres would have to be fairly reminiscent of Kossith. I personally detest the new appearance for the Ogres in DAII and prefer the DAO design, but in terms of lore consistency the Ogres and the Kossith have that.
As for the Elves, I kinda resent people saying "They look like giraffes because they have long necks". I myself have a naturally elongated neck so it really just.... irritates me when statements like that are said.
I take it as just as much an attack on me as the design itself, mainly because the critique on the design is centered around the notion that "long necked people are ugly".
Though in truth, I only take a slight offense to it. I'm not going to get all pissy about it, flying off on a rampage. I'd be pretty pathetic if I allowed comments like that to upset me a great deal -- I only get furious on the internet when people assume things about my character that are false.
But I do like to make it known that people in our society do have elongated necks and aren't all considered ugly or disturbing or other words of the sort.
Never mind that I don't even get a "they look like deer/giraffes" vibe from the DAII Elves.
David Gaider wrote...
Poor Orana. Getting rolled out as the poster child by anyone who doesn't like the new elves. Personally, I think the worst thing about her appearance is that makeup -- I mean, what's up with the pastels? Gosh.
Beyond that, while our elves may be tweaked in appearance (and, indeed, our face morphing system for all characters is likely to change as we move forward anyhow), we're definitely not going back to humans-with-pointy-ears. So, while pulling up the best elven pictures from DAO and the worst elven pictures from DA2 may be an interesting exercise, it's not going to convince us to suddenly reverse course. Sorry.
There ya go
Faerunner wrote...
And I would say that turning some races into weird alien animal hybrid creatures to gawk at from a human protagonist as seen in Mass Effect doesn't help to make the Dragon Age universe to be anything other than Mass Effect with swords
As long as we agree that it's personal taste and not fact. If you like walking deer and oxen, it's your thing.
Having not played Mass Effect, I'm not going to touch this whole "ME with swords" argument pointed towards the racial designs. I'll touch that critique on other aspects of DAII -- dialogue wheel -- but not racial aspects.
And frankly, for the Kossith their change makes sense per the lore. Kossith broodmothers create Ogres. Ogres have horns. Kossith were always originally intended to have horns, but DAO's engine couldn't handle it very well -- or they didn't have the time. Can't remember.
So now there's consistency on why Ogres who are born from Kossith broodmothers have horns. Because the majority of Kossith have horns.
Additionally, David Gaider himself has stated that should Sten reappear, he won't magically change into a horned Qunari. He'll still be hornless, as that's an element of Qunari society. There are horned and hornless Kossith, the latter being seen as special and destined for greatness.
So there's lore consistency and visual identity. Sten will look the same if we see him again and now it makes sense why Ogres have horns, because that's not something that can just magically appear out of nowhere, considering all Darkspawn are known to have traits reminiscent of the race that bore them.
Proof: The Dwarven codex on Darkspawn says that the Genlocks were "creatures in their own likeness". So the Ogres would have to be fairly reminiscent of Kossith. I personally detest the new appearance for the Ogres in DAII and prefer the DAO design, but in terms of lore consistency the Ogres and the Kossith have that.
As for the Elves, I kinda resent people saying "They look like giraffes because they have long necks". I myself have a naturally elongated neck so it really just.... irritates me when statements like that are said.
I take it as just as much an attack on me as the design itself, mainly because the critique on the design is centered around the notion that "long necked people are ugly".
Though in truth, I only take a slight offense to it. I'm not going to get all pissy about it, flying off on a rampage. I'd be pretty pathetic if I allowed comments like that to upset me a great deal -- I only get furious on the internet when people assume things about my character that are false.
But I do like to make it known that people in our society do have elongated necks and aren't all considered ugly or disturbing or other words of the sort.
Never mind that I don't even get a "they look like deer/giraffes" vibe from the DAII Elves.
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 juillet 2012 - 01:57 .
#24
Posté 01 juillet 2012 - 01:52
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
They have. They said the new design is here to stay -- and really, I'm glad for that -- and would be tweaked if deemed necessary.
Thanks for the information and the quote, although it seems to me like Orana wasn't worked on as much as elves like Merrill, Fenris, and Athenril. Which is likely the case for the Nosferatu looking elven NPCs that dot Kirkwall. What's your expert opinion?
#25
Posté 01 juillet 2012 - 01:58
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
As for the Elves, I kinda resent people saying "They look like giraffes because they have long necks". I myself have a naturally elongated neck so it really just.... irritates me when statements like that are said.
I take it as just as much an attack on me as the design itself, mainly because the critique on the design is centered around the notion that "long necked people are ugly".
Though in truth, I only take a slight offense to it. I'm not going to get all pissy about it, flying off on a rampage. I'd be pretty pathetic if I allowed comments like that to upset me a great deal -- I only get furious on the internet when people assume things about my character that are false.
But I do like to make it known that people in our society do have elongated necks and aren't all considered ugly or disturbing or other words of the sort.
I think the problem is not that their necks are long, but that they tend to bend in what seems to be an anatomically impossible way, as in the screenshot of Fenris in the opening post. It looks wrong and is distracting.
