349 réponses à ce sujet

[TJX2045]

Ihatebadgames wrote...
 Hey how about no more bosses!

If you're not serious, then disregard this...but...



LOL WUT?

No seriously, please Bioware.  Do not go the ME3 route with no major bosses.  Having tactical boss fights in the DA series is something I've always loved.  Fighting a Dragon in DAO and DA2 was hard, as it should be.  I shouldn't be able to hack'n'slash them for 1 minute and win...and if people don't want to play like a tactician they can put it on casual and button mash through the fight.

Modifié par TJX2045, 07 juin 2012 - 10:19 .

[Beck 85]

Like I said, I will purchase the game. However, I would not play any MP components of it. Of course the ability to Play as an elf again would result in a happy dance.

[Ihatebadgames]

You should not need bosses to move a story forward.Take KL in ME3(Please he added nothing)his fight was dark,falling ninjas/troopers from the sky.Falling in holes getting nonexisting toes caught and not being able to move.There has to be a way to move the story forward thats not twitch.
Still holding out for the in game delete button.Me1-3 had them why not DA?

Modifié par Ihatebadgames, 07 juin 2012 - 10:25 .

[Elhanan]

Men are not forced to go look at fashions in Val Reyeaux; optional content only.

Modifié par Elhanan, 07 juin 2012 - 10:25 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Hands down I would pre-order DA3 if my Warden is allowed to return and make an impact on Thedas again. Other than that, wait six months for price slashing.

[M0RD3CA1 VII]

Seagloom wrote...

Dragonling pet and(or) dragon riding. Also, schmooples.

Never thought of that, but that would actually be awesome if you were able to domesticate certain wild creatures

I don't care if it's voiced or not, but yeah the choices need to match what they say

I like most of the new companion ideas

Uhm, ...  I'm buying it regardless, so ... just don't screw up, Bioware. Please!

[Elhanan]

Persephone wrote...

How is Thedas better off without one of its greatest, most fascinating heroes?

Dunno; seems to be more a head to me....

You mean one of it's head statesmen? 

King Alistair can begin each day healthier with de-cap....


*smiles, runs, and ducks for cover*

[TJX2045]

Ihatebadgames wrote...

You should not need bosses to move a story forward.Take KL in ME3(Please he added nothing)

I read the whole post and I see your point.  I agree Kai Leng was just thrown in there just to have him thrown in there.  HOWEVER look at Dragon Age Origins.  Not all of the bosses were mandatory and you knew from the beginning you would have to fight the Archdemon and some of the other bosses that are obstacles in your way.  Also the game is Dragon Age, so never ever seeing a dragon ever in the game would not make sense whenNPCs literally state that dragons are EVERYWHERE.

High Dragons, Archdemon, & Flemeth =/= Kai Leng.

Like I said, if people don't like bosses they don't have to do the tactics thing and just button mash.  SOME bosses aren't needed to move the story forward, but they are also a very challenging aspect of the game that earns you some high reward loot should you choose to pursue one of the optional ones OR defeat one of the main story ones.

I say some bosses aren't needed because they aren't.  Kai Leng was thrown in but we already had the Reapers and TIM in ME3.  Saying bosses aren't needed to keep a story going is like saying Alduin wasn't needed in the storyline for Skyrim or the Archdemon wasn't needed for DA:O.  It's very subjective.  Actually, it's more objective than subjective.  It's factual that in both games you have to defeat them in order to end the main storyline.

If it was a cakewalk, people are going to be pissed.  If it's all debates when the antagonist has easily fought and killed individuals without blinking an eye, people are going to be pissed.  Saren from ME1 is different in that he was indoctrinated (I cannot fully explain this obviously because of the spoilers).

Modifié par TJX2045, 07 juin 2012 - 10:59 .

[TEWR]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Loghain better be there or heads WILL roll. Just a fair warning.

He does need to be in there. DAIII is practically begging for Loghain to be in there, what with Ferelden being more Mage-Friendly, the Divine no longer able to trust the majority of the Templars/Seekers, and half of Orlais wanting to invade Ferelden again -- with Empress Celene currently missing from the field.

Loghain has to appear. He must flip over a table, punch a few Orlesian Chevaliers, and ride a horse towards Ferelden in the midnight rain so that he can once again keep his beloved homeland safe from those damn Orlesian fops.

[Tommyspa]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Loghain better be there or heads WILL roll. Just a fair warning.

He does need to be in there. DAIII is practically begging for Loghain to be in there, what with Ferelden being more Mage-Friendly, the Divine no longer able to trust the majority of the Templars/Seekers, and half of Orlais wanting to invade Ferelden again -- with Empress Celene currently missing from the field.

Loghain has to appear. He must flip over a table, punch a few Orlesian Chevaliers, and ride a horse towards Ferelden in the midnight rain so that he can once again keep his beloved homeland safe from those damn Orlesian fops.

The Orlesians are coming! The Orlesians are coming!

[Sylvius the Mad]

"Silent protagonist"

[Allan Schumacher]

TJX2045 wrote...

Ihatebadgames wrote...
 Hey how about no more bosses!

If you're not serious, then disregard this...but...



LOL WUT?

No seriously, please Bioware.  Do not go the ME3 route with no major bosses.  Having tactical boss fights in the DA series is something I've always loved.  Fighting a Dragon in DAO and DA2 was hard, as it should be.  I shouldn't be able to hack'n'slash them for 1 minute and win...and if people don't want to play like a tactician they can put it on casual and button mash through the fight.

Is it actually the fight that is essential, or a critical/interesting/challenging encounter with an antagonist that is more vital?

Essentially, is the ability to bypass a boss fight with cunning or something else still viable?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Is it actually the fight that is essential, or a critical/interesting/challenging encounter with an antagonist that is more vital?

Essentially, is the ability to bypass a boss fight with cunning or something else still viable?

I wholeheartedly agree that boss fights as events add nothing to my game.  I would be happy to defeat antagoists by other means (or even for there to be no such antagonist).

The big boss fight at the end of ME2 was laughably silly.  I already didn't like the game, but that fight was just dumb.

Moreover, I'd like all the fights to follow the same rules, and be constructed in a way that makes sense within the setting.  In Legacy, there's a fight with three golems with differing resistances, and that would have been a great encounter, but then the golems only attacked consecutively rather than concurrently.  Who would guard something by having golems fight suboptimally like that?  That strained credulity, and did so seemingly only so that the player could get a different sort of fight.

Design fights to suit the world, not the game.  If boss fights arise from that, so be it, but boss fihts need not exist for their own sake.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 07 juin 2012 - 11:57 .

[Chun Hei]

I would much rather have the gauntlet of enemies approach from ME3 rather than dodge fire from a giant monster while killing it three times each time by shooting it in a different glowing orifice.

[Direwolf0294]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

TJX2045 wrote...

Ihatebadgames wrote...
 Hey how about no more bosses!

If you're not serious, then disregard this...but...



LOL WUT?

No seriously, please Bioware.  Do not go the ME3 route with no major bosses.  Having tactical boss fights in the DA series is something I've always loved.  Fighting a Dragon in DAO and DA2 was hard, as it should be.  I shouldn't be able to hack'n'slash them for 1 minute and win...and if people don't want to play like a tactician they can put it on casual and button mash through the fight.

Is it actually the fight that is essential, or a critical/interesting/challenging encounter with an antagonist that is more vital?

Essentially, is the ability to bypass a boss fight with cunning or something else still viable?

For me, I prefer an interesting encounter then just "Oh look, it's the bad guy. He is bad and so now we have to fight".

I really loved what the ME3 guys did in regards to the final "boss" in that game. Trying to avoid posting spoilers but I will say if the final boss had of suddenly warped into some sort of Husk Monster that I had to have a fire fight against I would have been really disappointed.

I think there should be an option for those traditional boss fights but I think there also needs to be ways to avoid that fight or defeat your opponent in different ways other than just wailing on them with weapons till their health is gone.

Deus Ex Human Revolution's boss fights often cope a lot of flak because how they're forced onto the player and there's no way to take them down in any other way but a fire fight. It's a stealth based game yet you can't take the bosses out stealthily or even stealth past them entirely. The boss fights ignore one of the major features of the game and it really breaks the over all flow of the game. I'd like to see the same logic applied to RPGs in terms of dialogue. In BioWare games in particular dialogue plays a huge role in the game. Why is it then that such a major feature is discarded when it comes to boss fights? Doesn't it make sense and keep with the flow of the game that players would have the option to talk their way through boss fights?

[syllogi]

Personally, I love *good* boss fights. My favorite memories of playing World of Warcraft were 40 man Naxxramas raids, where the boss fights were mostly thoughtfully designed, challenging, and rewarding, beyond just the phat loot we had a chance to win. If the fun was just in winning, we wouldn't be lining up every week, wiping multiple times, before we got it together and progressed to the next boss.

Both games had some good boss fights, like the Queen of Blackmarsh in Awakening, and Corypheus in Legacy (both when not bugged...). If we had more boss fights like those, or even more interesting, that would be a big draw for me.

[William91]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

TJX2045 wrote...

Ihatebadgames wrote...
 Hey how about no more bosses!

If you're not serious, then disregard this...but...



LOL WUT?

No seriously, please Bioware.  Do not go the ME3 route with no major bosses.  Having tactical boss fights in the DA series is something I've always loved.  Fighting a Dragon in DAO and DA2 was hard, as it should be.  I shouldn't be able to hack'n'slash them for 1 minute and win...and if people don't want to play like a tactician they can put it on casual and button mash through the fight.

Is it actually the fight that is essential, or a critical/interesting/challenging encounter with an antagonist that is more vital?

Essentially, is the ability to bypass a boss fight with cunning or something else still viable?

I find that a very interesting thing and I like it! Just like in Planescape Torment or in ME1 in the first phase when fighting Saren. Of course, having a godchild that tells you "Hey you can choose three different endings with different colours. Ah, your friends are dead, bye!" with no option to dialogue with him or use "cunning" to know his true intentions isnt a viable option anymore (I think)

[Vormaerin]

[quote]Allan Schumacher wrote...

[/quote]

Is it actually the fight that is essential, or a critical/interesting/challenging encounter with an antagonist that is more vital?

Essentially, is the ability to bypass a boss fight with cunning or something else still viable?

[/quote]

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with boss fights.  However, the boss fights need to reinforce the game mechanics.  If the player is able to reach the boss by fast talking, stealth, and heavy investment in the relevant character traits, then you get to the fight and its  "Rawr!  Cage Match!", its very annoying.

Cleverness and cunning should be viable ways to complete encounters, but they should also require the player to expend effort.  In Deus Ex, there were lots of ways to do things, but you had to make choices.   The cleverness and cunning route should require player effort.  

I like being able to develop a massive Speech skill and talk my way out of things.   What I don't want is "Free" cleverness where its just the player choosing options that are just there for the taking and don't reflect anything the player has been doing up to this point.

[Ihatebadgames]

Is it a spoiler if you talk about another game companys game?In the Witcher 2 i hate how you have to fight the Kayran.But love how you have the choice of not fighting the final"Bad Guy"he'd never attacked you,and a couple of other semi friendly acts.You have a choice.
Say you made a lot of money in a game,built hospitals,roads naval ships,ect.Mid or ending get your regular Boss fight or since you've done all these upgrades to the people and area it gives you added resources,armys,navies troops to take out the "Boss" real quick.Talk him down,save his sick child.There has to be a better,newer more thought provoking way to get the better experience.

[brushyourteeth]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

TJX2045 wrote...

Ihatebadgames wrote...
 Hey how about no more bosses!

If you're not serious, then disregard this...but...



LOL WUT?

No seriously, please Bioware.  Do not go the ME3 route with no major bosses.  Having tactical boss fights in the DA series is something I've always loved.  Fighting a Dragon in DAO and DA2 was hard, as it should be.  I shouldn't be able to hack'n'slash them for 1 minute and win...and if people don't want to play like a tactician they can put it on casual and button mash through the fight.

Is it actually the fight that is essential, or a critical/interesting/challenging encounter with an antagonist that is more vital?

Essentially, is the ability to bypass a boss fight with cunning or something else still viable?

Definitely viable IMO, Allan. Especially since we're learning that some players aren't super into combat and/or play through multiple times and maybe just want to skip ahead to the next thing in the game. Being able to sneak/talk/bribe/manipulate/bargain your way out of a fight could be super interesting. Kind of how in DA:O in the side quest "Asunder" you could put together the pieces of the pride demon in Ortan Thaig and choose to engage it in battle or let it go for a sack of gold.

I really enjoy challenging combat in a game but I also enjoy as many differing choices available (for when I replay) as possible. I like that idea, Allan. Lots.

[Ihatebadgames]

I also miss my Flaming sword/Ice sword from DA:O,would like to see them return.White and red glitter does not do it.Can't use your glitter sword to see in the dark,look for traps or chests.

[Koffeegirl]

I would like to hear the story of Bianca

[TJX2045]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

TJX2045 wrote...

Ihatebadgames wrote...
 Hey how about no more bosses!

If you're not serious, then disregard this...but...



LOL WUT?

No seriously, please Bioware.  Do not go the ME3 route with no major bosses.  Having tactical boss fights in the DA series is something I've always loved.  Fighting a Dragon in DAO and DA2 was hard, as it should be.  I shouldn't be able to hack'n'slash them for 1 minute and win...and if people don't want to play like a tactician they can put it on casual and button mash through the fight.

1) Is it actually the fight that is essential, or a critical/interesting/challenging encounter with an antagonist that is more vital?

2) Essentially, is the ability to bypass a boss fight with cunning or something else still viable?

1) I like the challenge associated with antagonist encounters, which is why I prefer boss fights.  The encounter in ME3 was alright but wasn't very challenging.  For instance, in Deus Ex Human Revolution, there are dialogue sequences where you can talk some of the villains down but you don't know for sure that what you're choosing will work or not.

You see their psychological profile sort of in the HUD but it's still sort of trying to get into their head without knowing 100% that you will win the debate.  If THAT could happen in place of boss fights if you guys are trying to avoid a lot of them, then sure. 

2) As long as it is optional, sure.  There were plenty of DAO moments I was glad I didn't have to fight a really difficult fight at times, but for the people like me who still want some awesome boss fights I'd like the option to just do the traditional boss style.

Even if there was an option to on/off bosses in game, as long as people hating bosses doesn't mean they are completely removed for the people who do enjoy them.  I grew up as a 90s kid where almost every game had a final boss or optional boss encounters, and I loved them.

They feel like epic battles to me as long as the antagonist isn't like Kai Leng.  I'm talking badditude where it goes from being a cool antagonist like Saren or TIM to an annoying one you don't ever care to see or look at or listen to.  The ones that make you cringe from how awful they are at being a villain.

And sometimes the random "boss comes out and we now have to fight" thing isn't that farfetched.  For instance, when going to get the Ashes of Andraste in DAO, you walk into a High Dragon's lair.  It's unbelievable to think a dragon is going to simply let you talk them down from roasting you alive.  And the NPCs tell us that dragons are pretty much everywhere.  To go through the game and never expect a dragon boss/elite dragon to show up is pretty unrealistic within the fantasy world.

I'm in the middle of a DA2 playthrough and I'm working on trying to get the Exorcist trophy.  i'm looking forward to the fight.  I don't know, maybe it's just me and I'm old fashioned, but there's something IMMENSELY satisfying when you kill a boss.  I don't mind dying 2-3 times in the process of trial and error.  Flemeth kicked my butt quite a few times in Dragon Age Origins before I finally beat her.

Modifié par TJX2045, 08 juin 2012 - 06:09 .

[Persephone]

Ihatebadgames wrote...

He was not loyal to his friend,King Maric he killed his son.He was not loyal to his King,said hey got your back and then left him and the rest of the army to die.Killing any survivors,laying the blame on others.He was not loyal to his country selling elves into slavery.Tower of mages trouble with the blood mages was his doing.Bet If we dug deep enough we could lay the dwarf troubles at his feet also.He would evenhave killed his daughter for political points.He needed killing.

Read The Stolen Throne, the part about West Hill... He was more loyal to Maric than you know.

Cailan caused his own demise. There was no saving him. The retreat at Ostagar was the right decision, a tactical one, no more, no less.

I am against slavery myself.

The Tower of Mages' issues were NOT his doing. Nor were the problems at Orzammar.

Nor would he EVER have harmed Anora.

Just had to clarify that. The man isn't a saint. But he isn't a psychopath who "needs killing" either.

[TJX2045]

Persephone wrote...

Cailan caused his own demise. There was no saving him. The retreat at Ostagar was the right decision, a tactical one, no more, no less.

IMO that "tactical decision" didn't matter with the darkspawn threat right at everyone's throats.  Cailan was too bent on being hero, sure.  However Loghain's choice not only affected him, but the fate of all the Grey Wardens as well.  Had he stayed in battle the battle would've been won maybe with a good amount of casualties but they'd be more prepared to go and get all their allies.

Plus Loghain was trying to scare everyone into thinking the Wardens would seek the help of Orlais, when they were only getting their other Grey Wardens...he is just stubborn and letting his fear of Orlais and pride of beating them get in the way of actually protecting the people he believes he is saving.

Like they say at the end, the blight can be stopped by the GREY WARDENS ONLY.  Had our wardens died and all the grey wardens been eradicated, everyone would've died.  Game over.  No hero Loghain to talk about how he left battle tactically to "save" everyone.  No Queen Anora to rule the throne in Cailan's stead.

Modifié par TJX2045, 08 juin 2012 - 06:32 .