159 réponses à ce sujet

[ArchDuck]

EJ107 wrote...

In my opinion the trailer just goes too far. Mass Effect 1 just had tasteful sex scenes, while this trailer seems to be verging on gore porn. Again, just my opinion, but I don't think that death should be sexualised. Or killing for that matter. The fact that it's a man killing them really doesn't help. 

And yeah... half-naked probably isn't the right term. I was going to say "scantily-dressed" originally, and that fits better I think. 

Uh, wow. Once the violence started in the Hitman trailer I found nothing sexual in the scenes what so ever. The fact that some people seem to see such things is... disturbing.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 07 juin 2012 - 07:47 .

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

I think the reason these controversies happen has multiple answers.

For starters, yes, I agree with what many said: Being too close to a game can blindside you for its flaws. Stepping back is easy said, nearly impossibly done. But, enough on this has been said already, so I won't get into that.

However, that's not the only reason. There is a reason why focus groups don't always work: Limited exposure. This goes by two ways: First, game producers and publishers like EA and Activision are still coming to grips with the fact that games aren't played exclusively by teenage boys. A demographic like that is already divers enough to handle, so they limit their games to focus on that demographic. meaning that, if tested, the game will be tested on the target audience, not their parents, let alone girls of the same age-group. Which means, they won't get input from these other perspectives.
Second: even IF game producers get feedback from these other groups, this feedback will be limited as well, for the simple reason that you won't let a focus group play out the entirety of the game. If IO/Square Enix had a focus group that tested the Chinatown sequence, they would have had absolutely NO feedback on the Attack of the Saints sequence. Similarly, Bioware would not have let a focus group play out the entirety of the Mass Effect game, since even a game of 10 hours would be far too long for a focus group. So, you take the information gathered from these limited pools, and extrapolate on them. But you don't get a complete picture that way.

Remember: Focus groups cost a LOT of time and energy, and therefore a LOT of money. So when you do it, you make sure you have a LOT of questions you can find answered. How are the controls, how is the blood spree, how is the gamma, how is the difficulty level, how is the atmosphere, etc. You don't focus-group a trailer, because the only answer you can get is "did you like it or not?". Wasted effort. Well, most of the time, apparently.

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

ArchDuck wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

In my opinion the trailer just goes too far. Mass Effect 1 just had tasteful sex scenes, while this trailer seems to be verging on gore porn. Again, just my opinion, but I don't think that death should be sexualised. Or killing for that matter. The fact that it's a man killing them really doesn't help. 

And yeah... half-naked probably isn't the right term. I was going to say "scantily-dressed" originally, and that fits better I think. 

Uh, wow. Once the violence started in the Hitman trailer I found nothing sexual in the scenes what so ever. The fact that people seem to see such a thing is... disturbing.

No, most people agree with you that the violence itself isn;t sexual. But the subjects on which the violence was perpetrated, were in the sequence leading up to this, highly sexualized.

So, you have these scantily-clad ladies, which, from the first moment you see them, are HIGHLY sexualized (the second shot of them is one straight at a set of boobs so big, that they nearly tear the fabric of the nun-outfit). Every camera-shot on the nuns leading up to the violence is meant to show us they are meant to be interpreted as objects of sexual desire, and little more. To this, you agree, right?

Then, these objects of sexual desire are violently killed by the player protagonist, the 'hero' of the game.

...why? What was the creative director of this video trying to say with that?

If we analyze the trailer, we can try to make sense of it, try to decypher what the director was trying to tell us about the game.

Well, there are only two themes in this trailer: Sex, and violence. There are NO other themes in it (if you think there are, pelase tell me). Did he try to contrast these two themes? If so, why did he bring them together, in the same setting, the same individual, the same action? That isn't contrasting them. 
So, the director wanted us to, what, link these two together? That seems to be the only interpretation left, but...tThat is sick, and disgusting, and exactly the kind of reaction most people have with this trailer.  

[crimzontearz]

and with that I once again repeat.....I wish MS bought Bioware rather than EA


gah

[zambot]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

In my opinion the trailer just goes too far. Mass Effect 1 just had tasteful sex scenes, while this trailer seems to be verging on gore porn. Again, just my opinion, but I don't think that death should be sexualised. Or killing for that matter. The fact that it's a man killing them really doesn't help. 

And yeah... half-naked probably isn't the right term. I was going to say "scantily-dressed" originally, and that fits better I think. 

Uh, wow. Once the violence started in the Hitman trailer I found nothing sexual in the scenes what so ever. The fact that people seem to see such a thing is... disturbing.

No, most people agree with you that the violence itself isn;t sexual. But the subjects on which the violence was perpetrated, were in the sequence leading up to this, highly sexualized.

So, you have these scantily-clad ladies, which, from the first moment you see them, are HIGHLY sexualized (the second shot of them is one straight at a set of boobs so big, that they nearly tear the fabric of the nun-outfit). Every camera-shot on the nuns leading up to the violence is meant to show us they are meant to be interpreted as objects of sexual desire, and little more. To this, you agree, right?

Then, these objects of sexual desire are violently killed by the player protagonist, the 'hero' of the game.

...why? What was the creative director of this video trying to say with that?

If we analyze the trailer, we can try to make sense of it, try to decypher what the director was trying to tell us about the game.

Well, there are only two themes in this trailer: Sex, and violence. There are NO other themes in it (if you think there are, pelase tell me). Did he try to contrast these two themes? If so, why did he bring them together, in the same setting, the same individual, the same action? That isn't contrasting them. 
So, the director wanted us to, what, link these two together? That seems to be the only interpretation left, but...tThat is sick, and disgusting, and exactly the kind of reaction most people have with this trailer.  

I think it's easy to understand.

Director: So what do you want this trailer to be about?
Marketing VP: We need to to sell a lot of units to males who are 18-30. 
Director: That's doable.  We include a lot of really hot, hyper-sexual women and a lot of explosions and blood.
Marketing VP: Yes!  That's what I'm talking about.  You rock!
Director: Do you mind if I make it a little artistic, you know for my creative integrity?
Marketing VP: Will it still have hot women, blood, and explosions?
Direcor: I was thinking about using nuns, that strip down to high heels and fetish outfits before the blood and explosions.
Marketing VP: Are the nuns young and cute?
Director: Yes.
Marketing VP: Ship it.

Modifié par zambot, 07 juin 2012 - 08:24 .

[crimzontearz]

that's funny and sad at the same time......

[crimzontearz]

and by the same coin....did they really think people would not confront them on the other lies?

Specifically the EMS requiring MP to break 4000?

really did they think we would just forget altogether? did they not think it through??

and most importantly....who made the call?

[Goaliebot]

In the past I've been involved in certain large undertakings that produced crappy results.

The "why" in those cases were always the same: arrogance and denial.

1) The leaders became arrogant. This lead to them surrounding themselves with yes-men and getting rid of anyone who challenged them or their ideas.
2) Then came the denial - all feedback or information that disagreed with what they'd decided was ignored and explained away, usually by deriding the people who gave the feedback. This continued even after delivery when things started tanking, and it persisted until complete failure was reached.

Arrogance and denial.

[frylock23]

zambot wrote...

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

In my opinion the trailer just goes too far. Mass Effect 1 just had tasteful sex scenes, while this trailer seems to be verging on gore porn. Again, just my opinion, but I don't think that death should be sexualised. Or killing for that matter. The fact that it's a man killing them really doesn't help. 

And yeah... half-naked probably isn't the right term. I was going to say "scantily-dressed" originally, and that fits better I think. 

Uh, wow. Once the violence started in the Hitman trailer I found nothing sexual in the scenes what so ever. The fact that people seem to see such a thing is... disturbing.

No, most people agree with you that the violence itself isn;t sexual. But the subjects on which the violence was perpetrated, were in the sequence leading up to this, highly sexualized.

So, you have these scantily-clad ladies, which, from the first moment you see them, are HIGHLY sexualized (the second shot of them is one straight at a set of boobs so big, that they nearly tear the fabric of the nun-outfit). Every camera-shot on the nuns leading up to the violence is meant to show us they are meant to be interpreted as objects of sexual desire, and little more. To this, you agree, right?

Then, these objects of sexual desire are violently killed by the player protagonist, the 'hero' of the game.

...why? What was the creative director of this video trying to say with that?

If we analyze the trailer, we can try to make sense of it, try to decypher what the director was trying to tell us about the game.

Well, there are only two themes in this trailer: Sex, and violence. There are NO other themes in it (if you think there are, pelase tell me). Did he try to contrast these two themes? If so, why did he bring them together, in the same setting, the same individual, the same action? That isn't contrasting them. 
So, the director wanted us to, what, link these two together? That seems to be the only interpretation left, but...tThat is sick, and disgusting, and exactly the kind of reaction most people have with this trailer.  

I think it's easy to understand.

Director: So what do you want this trailer to be about?
Marketing VP: We need to to sell a lot of units to males who are 18-30. 
Director: That's doable.  We include a lot of really hot, hyper-sexual women and a lot of explosions and blood.
Marketing VP: Yes!  That's what I'm talking about.  You rock!
Director: Do you mind if I make it a little artistic, you know for my creative integrity?
Marketing VP: Will it still have hot women, blood, and explosions?
Direcor: I was thinking about using nuns, that strip down to high heels and fetish outfits before the blood and explosions.
Marketing VP: Are the nuns young and cute?
Director: Yes.
Marketing VP: Ship it.

Yeah, as I said earlier. It ain't the nun costumes; it's what's underneath. I have no problem with the idea of the hit girls being sexy, but why do they also have to be dressed like a crew of fetish porn stars? They were more sexed up than the hookers in Sin City, and those were supposed to be call girls selling their bodies. As far as I can tell, these were just supposed to be bad @ss hit girls. So, why dress them like fetish girls for a snuff film? That's what offends me; not the nun outfits which would actually be a good way for a gal to get close enough to make a hit. Who's going to look twice at a nun?

[Ninja Stan]

Not ME3 related.

End of line.