197 réponses à ce sujet

[GodlessPaladin]

greghorvath wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...
 I don't think anyone here who has been arguing for balance would agree with that definition.  Yet again, this strikes me as yet another disingenuous argument where you attack the absurd position of a nebulous "them" that doesn't seem to actually exist.

If you read my posts carefully (perhaps out loud would help) you would see I am not attacking anything. I am trying to indtroduce some sense to the BSN (pathetic, I know), which in this case does not fall in line with your own opinion.

  Yet another clearly disingenuous statement.  You make a barely veiled jab at my intelligence while saying that you're not attacking anything, even though you are very clearly making an argument opposing a hypothetical position which you attribute to "most people."

And despite you claiming that this view is held by "most people" I've yet to see a single person in the world who actually wanted that.  I've seen people who said other people wanted that but none who actually said that they themselves wanted that, either here on BSN or in any other context, anywhere, ever.

So please, produce for me some examples of these "most people."  Perhaps one of the many "nerfers" in this thread?  Show me even one "nerfer" who actually said that they think that balance means that everything should be equally effective regardless of player skill.  I can easily find several posts where they say the exact opposite, claiming that one of the issues with the Krysae is that it lessens skill as a factor or saying that the Kishock's power was fine because it was difficult to use.  But I can't find even one post that supports the position you attribute to "most people."

I like the word nebulous though. I seriously wish I knew what it meant...

*facedesk*

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 juin 2012 - 02:37 .

[Hypertion]

the Krysae does more damage than the Black Widow over a area of affect with the added bonuses of ignoring Armor Damage reductions and shield gates.

i love the gun and stick it on alot of characters because its useful on classes other than infiltrator.

i personally think it should have been single shot tho. while its damage is not as high as a widow it does do it over a area of effect which increases its effectiveness by well over 100-700% over other weapons when attacking groups. this does give it alot of power over the other sniper rifles. its too late to make it ultra rare tho.

other than that it point for point is the gun i once asked for on the forums, a sniper rifle like one in ME1 with the Explosive ammo Mod. I.e my tank gun.

I have seen people that are terrible with the gun and people who seem to kill everything on the map as easly as i do with it.

that also said.. since its release its the only sniper rifle i have been willing to use. my Black Widow and Javalin and even my Valiant just dont compaire to it. That and its freaking fun to blow enemys to bits!

[Rinzler]

Zhuinden wrote...

Kick In The Door wrote...

I couldn't care less about the Krysae. But the drama if they do nerf it will be absolutely exquisite, I look forward to next week's episode.

I'm still terrible with the Krysae and I have no idea how people can top anything with it.
Seriously, the damage against armor is an outrage.
The reason why it has as much damage ON PAPER as the Black Widow is because it's SPLASH meaning the enemy does NOT receive the full damage of it.

Entirely off topic dude but your forum pic dances in time with the skrillex Remix of sick bubblegum
Just sayin'

[WickedTruth 823]

look we have enough guns for Bronze and Silver... and sometimes those guns are a bit overkill... what we dont have is guns for Gold... if you wanna run Gold your forced to run a heavy claymore or something like it... or pray you can shoot the head off a phantom thats bouncing around giving you the hand so nothing else works... the Krysae true to its color Card is a Gold weapon... it handles its self well in gold... SAME GOES FOR THE REEGAR... the Harrier was a gold gun til it got fat... i cant deal with it at a 1... so ill wait til i get more...

but we need these weapons to actually play legit since geth got soo many buffs...

sometimes i think these "nerfers" only farm gold and cant actually play the game legitimately...

[molecularman]

I'm going to link this to every anti-balance thread from now on!

[Longhammer808]

Holy cats, again with the "you don't know how to read" chestnut.

Let's all agree that the Krysae is a controversial weapon, Bioware has picked up on that notion and now it's really out of "our" hands.

They're going to change it, and some will weep, and others will gloat. For its ardent partisans, use it with a vengeance over the next week. For its detractors, continue not to use it.

[Chealec]

WickedTruth 823 wrote...

look we have enough guns for Bronze and Silver... and sometimes those guns are a bit overkill... what we dont have is guns for Gold... if you wanna run Gold your forced to run a heavy claymore or something like it... or pray you can shoot the head off a phantom thats bouncing around giving you the hand so nothing else works... the Krysae true to its color Card is a Gold weapon... it handles its self well in gold... SAME GOES FOR THE REEGAR... the Harrier was a gold gun til it got fat... i cant deal with it at a 1... so ill wait til i get more...

but we need these weapons to actually play legit since geth got soo many buffs...

sometimes i think these "nerfers" only farm gold and cant actually play the game legitimately...

Funny - from where I'm sitting - what you're saying is that YOU can't play gold legitimately without a hand-cannon...
I do fine with a whole variety of weapons and classes, on all maps, against all enemies (though I'm definitely worst against Geth) thanks.

[deadpixel92]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

Consider the following.

It takes one shot to kill a Troop on Gold as an Infiltrator.
It takes two shots to kill a Troop on Gold as an AR Hsol.
It takes three shots for everyone else.

For a sniper rifle... is that truly OP? Is it the gun itself that is OP or is there another force at work in the game (Tactical Cloak) that is pushing the rifle into the realm of "too powerful"?

Consider also that your first point applies to almost every hard hitting weapon... Yes, lets nerf TC! Yay. I think we should just get rid of infiltrator class while we are at it...

My point, exactly.

Here we go again... 

[1337haxwtg]

When Luke was destroying the Death Star, he should have used a Krysae. That way, he wouldn't have had to aim so carefully to blow it up. He could have gone all MacGruber on that ***** and goten the same results.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Chealec wrote...

WickedTruth 823 wrote...

look we have enough guns for Bronze and Silver... and sometimes those guns are a bit overkill... what we dont have is guns for Gold... if you wanna run Gold your forced to run a heavy claymore or something like it... or pray you can shoot the head off a phantom thats bouncing around giving you the hand so nothing else works... the Krysae true to its color Card is a Gold weapon... it handles its self well in gold... SAME GOES FOR THE REEGAR... the Harrier was a gold gun til it got fat... i cant deal with it at a 1... so ill wait til i get more...

but we need these weapons to actually play legit since geth got soo many buffs...

sometimes i think these "nerfers" only farm gold and cant actually play the game legitimately...

Funny - from where I'm sitting - what you're saying is that YOU can't play gold legitimately without a hand-cannon...
I do fine with a whole variety of weapons and classes, on all maps, against all enemies (though I'm definitely worst against Geth) thanks.

And what about those who play silver or even bronze? Most people don't play on Gold.

Should they have to put up with Krysae users running round destroying spawns in a heartbeat before they can get off a BE/Shot , how much fun is that for everyone else?

Just because you arn't good enough for gold doesn't mean the majority of players should have the fun sucked out of matches. Gold is already seen as too easy for capable teams so I think you should learn to play instead of wanting a gun to do all your work.

Modifié par Rhyfelwyr, 07 juin 2012 - 02:46 .

[Chealec]

Rhyfelwyr wrote...

Chealec wrote...

WickedTruth 823 wrote...

look we have enough guns for Bronze and Silver... and sometimes those guns are a bit overkill... what we dont have is guns for Gold... if you wanna run Gold your forced to run a heavy claymore or something like it... or pray you can shoot the head off a phantom thats bouncing around giving you the hand so nothing else works... the Krysae true to its color Card is a Gold weapon... it handles its self well in gold... SAME GOES FOR THE REEGAR... the Harrier was a gold gun til it got fat... i cant deal with it at a 1... so ill wait til i get more...

but we need these weapons to actually play legit since geth got soo many buffs...

sometimes i think these "nerfers" only farm gold and cant actually play the game legitimately...

Funny - from where I'm sitting - what you're saying is that YOU can't play gold legitimately without a hand-cannon...
I do fine with a whole variety of weapons and classes, on all maps, against all enemies (though I'm definitely worst against Geth) thanks.

And what about those who play silver or even bronze? Most people don't play on Gold.

Should they have to put up with Krysae users running round destroying spawns in a heratbeat before they can get off a BE/Shot , how much fun is that for everyone else?

Just because you arn't good enough for gold doesn't mean the majority of players should have the fun sucked out of matches. Gold is already seen as too easy for capable teams so I think you should learn to play instead of wanting a gun to do all your work.

Wait .. what?

I can only assume you're responding to "WickedTruth 823" - quoting me in this context makes little sense unless you're backing me up?

[MinatheBrat]

Because of the Krysae controversy I made a poll. 

I'd like to know if you think the Krysae is OP and should be nerfed or not. I'd like to gather accurate numbers.

http://social.biowar...41/polls/34985/

Please vote!

[Rhyfelwyr]

Chealec wrote...

Rhyfelwyr wrote...

Chealec wrote...

WickedTruth 823 wrote...

look we have enough guns for Bronze and Silver... and sometimes those guns are a bit overkill... what we dont have is guns for Gold... if you wanna run Gold your forced to run a heavy claymore or something like it... or pray you can shoot the head off a phantom thats bouncing around giving you the hand so nothing else works... the Krysae true to its color Card is a Gold weapon... it handles its self well in gold... SAME GOES FOR THE REEGAR... the Harrier was a gold gun til it got fat... i cant deal with it at a 1... so ill wait til i get more...

but we need these weapons to actually play legit since geth got soo many buffs...

sometimes i think these "nerfers" only farm gold and cant actually play the game legitimately...

Funny - from where I'm sitting - what you're saying is that YOU can't play gold legitimately without a hand-cannon...
I do fine with a whole variety of weapons and classes, on all maps, against all enemies (though I'm definitely worst against Geth) thanks.

And what about those who play silver or even bronze? Most people don't play on Gold.

Should they have to put up with Krysae users running round destroying spawns in a heratbeat before they can get off a BE/Shot , how much fun is that for everyone else?

Just because you arn't good enough for gold doesn't mean the majority of players should have the fun sucked out of matches. Gold is already seen as too easy for capable teams so I think you should learn to play instead of wanting a gun to do all your work.

Wait .. what?

I can only assume you're responding to "WickedTruth 823" - quoting me in this context makes little sense unless you're backing me up?

Yes, wanted to expand on the point you made.

Also like to add as well as being OP the Kyrsae requres zero skill, so its not surprising certain people are so desperate to keep it as it is.

[LoboFH]

You guys really don't get it.

Simple and slow for dummies...

Krysae is a noob tube, logically it's loved by the sociologic group called in its name. But experienced players hate noob tubes.

Nobody cares if the Black Widow is a death machine, every game needs the ultimate sniper rifle, Black Widow is the ultimate sniper rifle in this game.

Nobody cares if the Geth shotgun, or Reegar, or Claymore are death machines, every game need killer shooties. John Carmack, the guru of shooters, once said a shooter is so good as good it is its shootie.

Nobody cares if the Carnifex is a death machine, every game needs its .44 magnum.

But everybody but noobs hate noob tubes, with no cons or skill involved.

Now?

Modifié par LoboFH, 07 juin 2012 - 03:00 .

[neteng101]

1337haxwtg wrote...

The Krysae requires zero skill, zero aim, and zero thought on an infiltrator.

That is an ease of use factor is it not?  And the intent was to release an un-sniper that was easy to use was it not?  I don't see the point in complaining about the Krysae, even on an infiltrator.  Now if it does as much damage as a Widow does, then we'd be having a different discussion.

It does not invalidate the BW/Valiant in any way...  headshots or what was weak points (Atlas) is/was a way to inflict more damage with either of these, vs. the Krysae.  So there is/was a reward for skill (less so now though, given other nerfs).  Well, except the stupid boss headshot/weak point nerfs.  Even if these were unintended programming errors of the past, they actually made gameplay a whole lot better (and the Kishook penetration that got nerfed as well).

I find the Krysae rather underwhelming actually...  almost feels like it needs a ROF buff, and all those blanks are super annoying.  As much as I've tried it out to see what people see in it...  I won't use it really because I think its crap, not OP.  And its almost always out of bullets at the wrong times.

[count_4]

ABjerre wrote...

count_4 wrote...
Actually having more fun is exactly why people want things nerfed a lot of times. It's not about being unfair or any kind of advantage, it is about playing with a player rolling one of the (from the nerf-requesters POV) OP classes not being a lot of fun. Not because they get outscored but because the gameplay tends to get boring. And they do have a point here.

Sadly all most anti-nerfers do is claiming the nerfers are simply jealous and not 'wasting' any kind of thought to why these players might actually request a nerf. They want a class/power/weapon to be weaker, therefore they are bad players who want to take away others toys. That's about the only argument I usually see from the anti-faction.

Many argumentations presented by "nerfers" assume the perspective of them being "beaten" by someone else, and thus their case instead of "i want to have more fun with X, please nerf X" becomes "i want to have more fun with X, please nerf Y". Do you see the difference?

Well, argumentations based on the feeling to have been 'beaten' by someone with the class/weapon/power in question are indeed nonsense.
If you only have a problem with the argumentation itself instead of the case of "i want to have more fun with X, please nerf Y" per se, I agree.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Rick__D wrote...

Its the vocal minority. Content people are quiet.

Then due to the gamer feedback the devs should also see that it is OP.

[Schneidend]

WickedTruth 823 wrote...

look we have enough guns for Bronze and Silver... and sometimes those guns are a bit overkill... what we dont have is guns for Gold... if you wanna run Gold your forced to run a heavy claymore or something like it... or pray you can shoot the head off a phantom thats bouncing around giving you the hand so nothing else works... the Krysae true to its color Card is a Gold weapon... it handles its self well in gold... SAME GOES FOR THE REEGAR... the Harrier was a gold gun til it got fat... i cant deal with it at a 1... so ill wait til i get more...

but we need these weapons to actually play legit since geth got soo many buffs...

sometimes i think these "nerfers" only farm gold and cant actually play the game legitimately...

Not even a "Gold weapon" should be able to be fired randomly at the floor of a room and kill the entire spawn in that room on Gold difficulty in 1-2 shots.

[kr3g]

This thing sucks without cloak. What point of nerfing it?

[mijames1]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

Consider the following.

It takes one shot to kill a Troop on Gold as an Infiltrator.
It takes two shots to kill a Troop on Gold as an AR Hsol.
It takes three shots for everyone else.

For a sniper rifle... is that truly OP? Is it the gun itself that is OP or is there another force at work in the game (Tactical Cloak) that is pushing the rifle into the realm of "too powerful"?

It is because the Krysae can shoot in the middle of 3 Troops and take out all 3 where as other sniper rifles must shoot each troop individually.

[We Tigers]

I don't have this gun and I've only seen it in action twice, so my frame of reference here is limited. Many of the suggested changes--particularly reducing AOE--seem a little silly to me. If you reduce the AOE significantly, how is it different from any other sniper rifle, except that it does less damage, has a slow projectile, and can't get headshots? If you reduce AOE *and* damage significantly, why would anyone use it at all?

[Pitznik]

If all weapons from given cathegory can achieve similar results on paper, the player's ability to use it is the main deciding factor. Balance means that everyone CAN pick a weapon and contribute as much as others, not that everyone will. That way player's skill become the most important factor, not only what weapon he equips. Also, it will not be boring - shotguns will still perform better up close, opposed to sniper rifles, so gameplay with different weapons would be very different.

Balance doesn't mean uniformity, because uniformity, while balanced, is boring. That kills fun even more than some weapons being OP.

WickedTruth 823 wrote...
... the Harrier was a gold gun til it got fat... i cant deal with it at a 1... so ill wait til i get more...

Level I Harrier's weight didn't change.

[Lexa_D]

ABjerre wrote...

Lexa_D wrote...
There, fixed it for you.

I'm impressed with the alternative views you presented, as well as the reason and logic in your argumentation for them. A valuable contribution indeed.

Well, since you asked for it...

Anyone assuming that when everyone not vocally protesting against something is fine with it should be not too bright. A simple counterexample: world war II and all the regions occupied by **** - how many were protesting against concentration camps?

[kira28]

yeah krysae on the infiltrators is definitely not overpowered it takes alot of skill to blow up enemies with this gun especially since it has a low rate of fire. Before this gun came out i actually wanted to upgrade by black widow and javelin but theres no need now this gun is the best.
Dont be hating on the infiltrator krysaes cause you cant get any kills. Just join us it goes must faster.