197 réponses à ce sujet

[greghorvath]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

Consider the following.

It takes one shot to kill a Troop on Gold as an Infiltrator.
It takes two shots to kill a Troop on Gold as an AR Hsol.
It takes three shots for everyone else.

For a sniper rifle... is that truly OP? Is it the gun itself that is OP or is there another force at work in the game (Tactical Cloak) that is pushing the rifle into the realm of "too powerful"?

Consider also that your first point applies to almost every hard hitting weapon... Yes, lets nerf TC! Yay. I think we should just get rid of infiltrator class while we are at it...

My point, exactly.

I understood you were talking about the krysae on the infiltrator, but if you were talking about all weapons, then you are simply wrong. I get one shot kills with most classes (except the ones not specced for weapon damage) with the right weapon (Shotties of course and some snipers) and I am far from being a top player. Better than average: yes. Awesome: no.
Based on your threads and reputation, you must be a better player than I am , so if you are not getting one shot Mook kills on gold there is something very wrong.

Or am I misunderstanding something again?

[Ektogamut]

This was mentioned a couple times so may not be entirely pertinent, but I don't think people should hold up the falcon as an example of an over-nerfed weapon.  Weapons have more variables besides damage.  In the case of the falcon, we lost damage, but it has effective transfer of ammo mods via AOE, excellent CC via stagger, is forgiving about aiming, most of the time, and is lastly the only (?) weapon that has projectiles that bounce.  It is a stunningly effective weapon on many classes and it is referred to as such in many threads, even after the nerf.  The wonderful thing is that there are other weapons that are weak in some of these variables that are strong in others.   The weapons feel different because of their different strengths. Just like the different classes do.  I could pick up the revenant and it could totally change my playstyle just from the weapon itself.  Edit:  For example,  It fires a lot of bullets.  It is forgiving about aiming, but less so then the falcon, yet moreso then a sniper.

Look at some of the variables where the Krysae excels: It does a decent amount of direct damage and damage over an area, which is enhanced by tactical cloak.  It has CC at both close and long range.  Its damage is proximity based, you don't have to hit the 20 on the dartboard to get 20 points.  I am sure there are more that are better examples, but it seems that there are too many weapon parameters that the Krysae excels at compared with most other weapons.  The damage point has been debated, but even if that was not true, the other points are objective and factual (right?). 

On the subjective side, I do think it is probably more in line with other weapons when used on a non infiltrator.
Personally, it simply is NOT fun to NOT have a Krysae when someone else in the lobby does.  I basically end up running around the map, aiming at something, and see it explode violently before I can do anything.  Maybe I suck, maybe I could do better and find enemies faster, but it makes it very hard to contribute.  Compareably, with BEs or other "OP" game items, while powerful I still feel like I can contribute something. Even if I am not playing a biotic myself, I can add something to the team as an engineer.  With the Krysae, I feel like I need to use  one to contribute equally.  Knowing/feeling like I have contributed is an integral part of the joy of the game to me--the Krysae hinders that. 
 

Modifié par Ektogamut, 07 juin 2012 - 09:35 .

[Draining Dragon]

The reason people are content is because they like having something which is so powerful. It's not that hard.

In other words, people who don't think its overpowered are the people who want it to be overpowered.

[cuzIMgood]

Hey op it is called a sample population. Obviously not everyone who plays mass effect is on the Bioware forums posting their opinions. Terrible thread.

[niripas]

InfamousResult wrote...

niripas wrote...

Please, don't change the gun that actually has pretty high "fun factor". I just like to play it. If I'm going for serious match - I'm getting my BW out, but sometimes it feels like work. Krysae just makes me smile when I see Phantom "pew pew, bum bum, dead", or rocket shootout vs geth rocket trooper.

Sorry, man. If you can't have fun by actually trying at the game, and the Krysae gets taken down a few notches- I suggest going to Bronze. And that's not me saying "ohhh dude you suuuuuck you need to go to Brooooonze"; no, I just mean that if trying hard makes the game unfun for you, then you shouldn't just be playing harder difficulties. You don't have to prove anything by playing Gold ( or Silver ) all the time. Go play some easier stuff when you just wanna' let off some steam. Lot of players do it.

Gold, being the hardest difficulty, though- still needs to be hard.

It's not that I can't have fun trying, gold is easy. I just hate to play hundreds of hours to get next level of BW. I sometimes switch to silver for kicks and giggles, but bronze is just boring, sorry. Gold is currently balanced that you not always win, enemies are tough enough to be challenging, you have to plan ahead. But still - saving teammate's butt which is about to be instakilled by Phantom feels good. Krysae is perfect gun for the job. Or maybe it's just my bias to it, cause I was testing XM25 and absolutely loved it

[Lexa_D]

ol MISAKA lo wrote...

Lexa_D wrote...

WickedTruth 823 wrote...

look we have enough guns for Bronze and Silver... and sometimes those guns are a bit overkill... what we dont have is guns for Gold... if you wanna run Gold your forced to run a heavy claymore or something like it... or pray you can shoot the head off a phantom thats bouncing around giving you the hand so nothing else works... the Krysae true to its color Card is a Gold weapon... it handles its self well in gold... SAME GOES FOR THE REEGAR... the Harrier was a gold gun til it got fat... i cant deal with it at a 1... so ill wait til i get more...

but we need these weapons to actually play legit since geth got soo many buffs...

sometimes i think these "nerfers" only farm gold and cant actually play the game legitimately...

This saturday on gold I used wraith, talon, hornet, hurricane, harrier, falcon, and finished with a super fun 4-engineer run with scorpions. Learn to play.

Learn to be a little more tolerant of others and not be such an elitist. It isn't an attractive quality.

The fun point is that I'm far from being elite. Still would be much better than stupidly claimking there are no "gold-worthy" weapons outside K&R

[ABjerre]

Lexa_D wrote...
Well, since you asked for it...

Anyone assuming that when everyone not vocally protesting against something is fine with it should be not too bright. A simple counterexample: world war II and all the regions occupied by **** - how many were protesting against concentration camps?

Surely you jest. You attack my logic, and when asked to elaborate, the best example for comparison to this scenario is World War II? You really deserve some kind of pointy hat made of paper...

[ABjerre]

cuzIMgood wrote...

Hey op it is called a sample population. Obviously not everyone who plays mass effect is on the Bioware forums posting their opinions. Terrible thread.

Hey cuzIMgood, you know that it goes both ways right? All i am asking for, is that when 99,9% of something is unknown, desicions shouldn't be made based on how the known 0,1% looks. If you would care to read my post and the thread thoroughly, you'd see that.

[WizenSlinky0]

The tactical cloak is hardly overpowered due to its substandard "invisibility" and the fact it's supposed to be a hard-hitting sniper. Infiltrators do more damage with a sniper than other classes? How "surprising". They've always been "the" sniper class. However, I do believe their extra damage should be limited to single-shot or a few choice multi-shot sniper rifles (like the black-widow which is a variation of a single-shot).

The more automatic, or clip-based snipers, should be re-classified as Semi-Auto Snipers and excluded from most of the tactical cloak damage bonus. This keeps them as the boss-hitting damage class without the mob-clearing speed of faster shot snipers.

Or you know sniper damage can come from a sustained ability that substantially increases cloak cool-down thereby forcing infiltrators to switch between damage and survivability.

[Chealec]

ABjerre wrote...

cuzIMgood wrote...

Hey op it is called a sample population. Obviously not everyone who plays mass effect is on the Bioware forums posting their opinions. Terrible thread.

Hey cuzIMgood, you know that it goes both ways right? All i am asking for, is that when 99,9% of something is unknown, desicions shouldn't be made based on how the known 0,1% looks. If you would care to read my post and the thread thoroughly, you'd see that.

... but that's the ONLY way you CAN make decisions, based on the limited sample data available - you have to assume the 0.1% sample data is enough to scale up to the larger population - in statistical analysis a randomly chosen sample set of approximately 2000 people is generally enough to get a reasonable idea of the overall opinion of the rest of the population.

Forums are somewhat scewed however as it's a self-selecting sample set rather than a random one.

[Permafrost27]

"Furthermore, history shows that caving in to the demands of the segment popluarly labeled as "the nerfers" will accomplish nothing, as their lust for nerfs is indeed insatiable. After the Krysae, they will find something else and after that something else again untill the beautyfull creation that is Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer has been twisted into an abomination that suits the 0,1% of the playerbase just fine, while the remaining 99,9% have found something else to do with their time."

That is some intense hyperbole and generalization.

I have never actively sought out and spoke for the nerfing of a weapon / power in this game up until this point, and only do so now because this one gun singlehandedly reduces the difficulty of the Gold setting by a noticeable margin (amplified by # of party members using it). *

If this vast, silent majority are not using the weapon as a crutch, what do they care if it gets a mild and reasonable reduction?

That isn't a rhetorical argument-inducing question, it's me being legitimately confused about other players' disinterest in game challenge + balance.

*Obviously I can't speak for everyone, I recognize that there absolutely is a contingent of irrational and whiny people among "us nerfers", but to make a blanket statement claiming we are all insatiably nerf hungry? wtf?

[taomang]

Atheosis wrote...

The Krysae on non-Infiltrators is borderline overpowered (much like the GPS).

The Krysae on Infiltrators is absurdly broken.

Anyone who claims otherwise is nuts or is lying.

i dont really see how this is a bad thing when it just saved your sorry butt from a banshee or brute or phantom or ravager or basically anything out there.

Solution? Use a krysae too.
You dont have it? Too bad, so sad.

[Mindlog]

ABjerre wrote...
Furthermore, history shows that caving in to the demands of the segment popluarly labeled as "the nerfers" will accomplish nothing, as their lust for nerfs is indeed insatiable.

I am unfamiliar with this history, but I would like to know more. Can you elaborate upon this claim?

I am absolutely certain that many of the players asking for an adjustment to the Krysae are similarly asking for a buff to rapid fire weapons vs enemy shields.

I can provide citations if necessary.

Modifié par Mindlog, 08 juin 2012 - 12:00 .

[molecularman]

taomang wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

The Krysae on non-Infiltrators is borderline overpowered (much like the GPS).

The Krysae on Infiltrators is absurdly broken.

Anyone who claims otherwise is nuts or is lying.

i dont really see how this is a bad thing when it just saved your sorry butt from a banshee or brute or phantom or ravager or basically anything out there.

Solution? Use a krysae too.
You dont have it? Too bad, so sad.

Yet another genius just not giving a cr*p about game balance

[Chealec]

taomang wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

The Krysae on non-Infiltrators is borderline overpowered (much like the GPS).

The Krysae on Infiltrators is absurdly broken.

Anyone who claims otherwise is nuts or is lying.

i dont really see how this is a bad thing when it just saved your sorry butt from a banshee or brute or phantom or ravager or basically anything out there.

Solution? Use a krysae too.
You dont have it? Too bad, so sad.

Yeah because 4 GIs with Krysae X makes for such an interesting game - it turns gold into a points rush, you may as well play bronze.

[niripas]

Chealec wrote...

Yeah because 4 GIs with Krysae X makes for such an interesting game - it turns gold into a points rush, you may as well play bronze.

Solution: create a private match with your friends. Agree no Krysae and no GI. Profit.

and, BTW - 4 GIs with Krysae means you are playing GI as well...

[GodlessPaladin]

greghorvath wrote...
I don't even know the meaning of all words in my own language, let alone English... I have to say in my defense that I did google it...

Ah, well I suppose that explains the miscommunications re: what you think "nerfers" are asking for.

[Chealec]

niripas wrote...

Chealec wrote...

Yeah because 4 GIs with Krysae X makes for such an interesting game - it turns gold into a points rush, you may as well play bronze.

Solution: create a private match with your friends. Agree no Krysae and no GI. Profit.

and, BTW - 4 GIs with Krysae means you are playing GI as well...

TBH I've never been in a match with 4 GIs with Krysaes - 3 Infiltrators with Krysaes (2x GI + 1xHI) when 2 Infil/Krysaes joined my lobby and I decided to be silly and go GI/Krysae to see if I could beat their points - which I did by about 50k - the game was so ridiculously easy, we had to chase things down to kill them, it really was almost like playing bronze.

After that game the 4th player switched to GI/Krysae and it would have been 3xGI/Krysae + 1xHI/Krysae had I not decided that would be beyond silly and switched to Vorcha Soldier.

4 games we played in a row, public/unknown/unknown/gold, 4 extractions, no real hitches - only used rockets on assassination missions just for speed.

My friends list in ME3 has dropped massively recently though so private matches aren't really an option very often - I think almost everyone on it got bored after Rebellion and stopped playing.

[Star fury]

Chealec wrote...

taomang wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

The Krysae on non-Infiltrators is borderline overpowered (much like the GPS).

The Krysae on Infiltrators is absurdly broken.

Anyone who claims otherwise is nuts or is lying.

i dont really see how this is a bad thing when it just saved your sorry butt from a banshee or brute or phantom or ravager or basically anything out there.

Solution? Use a krysae too.
You dont have it? Too bad, so sad.

Yeah because 4 GIs with Krysae X makes for such an interesting game - it turns gold into a points rush, you may as well play bronze.

Who forced you to play with Krysae?

[SmawgSS]

+1 Nerf Krysae....

50% less AOE damage,

or make it require a charge effect... or single shot... something....

[ABjerre]

Permafrost27 wrote...
"Furthermore, history shows that caving in to the demands of the segment popluarly labeled as "the nerfers" will accomplish nothing, as their lust for nerfs is indeed insatiable. After the Krysae, they will find something else and after that something else again untill the beautyfull creation that is Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer has been twisted into an abomination that suits the 0,1% of the playerbase just fine, while the remaining 99,9% have found something else to do with their time."

That is some intense hyperbole and generalization.

Mindlog wrote...
I am unfamiliar with this history, but I would like to know more. Can you elaborate upon this claim?

Yes, it is a very broard generalization. It is based on my professional experience having worked in customer support (not with BioWare), my academical experience through companies i've worked with in my studies, as well as my personal experience having been a long timer player, and active forum participant of many online games.

There are no guarantees when it comes to peoples reactions, but the pattern does seem to be repeating. Generally 90% of complaints are made by less than 10% of the consumers of any given product, and these 10% seem to be near impossible to satisfy. Prusuing this segment will likely result in the given product over time being warped into something that still doesn't satisfy the 10% complaining customers, while the remaning 90% that wasn't complaining in the first place may think the products new form unappealing and find something else to replace it.

During numerous case studies, i've found that it is not industry dependant, but it is very noticable when working with products that have an online forum, as it gives customers a place to voice their frustrations. I have seen products that have close to 95% approval rating amongst the customer base when asked directly, yet the forums related to the very same products are full of people complaining about this and that. Forums simply put, are no where near an accurate representation of the customer base, and thus one would be a fool to make desicions based upon oppinions voiced in them.

Modifié par ABjerre, 08 juin 2012 - 01:17 .

[Virazhides]

I just got it to X so naturally I had to try it out. Most boring match I ever played, everything melted into red mist. I'm not using it again.

[Permafrost27]

ABjerre wrote...

Permafrost27 wrote...
"Furthermore, history shows that caving in to the demands of the segment popluarly labeled as "the nerfers" will accomplish nothing, as their lust for nerfs is indeed insatiable. After the Krysae, they will find something else and after that something else again untill the beautyfull creation that is Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer has been twisted into an abomination that suits the 0,1% of the playerbase just fine, while the remaining 99,9% have found something else to do with their time."

That is some intense hyperbole and generalization.

Mindlog wrote...
I am unfamiliar with this history, but I would like to know more. Can you elaborate upon this claim?

Yes, it is a very broard generalization. It is based on my professional experience having worked in customer support (not with BioWare), my academical experience through companies i've worked with in my studies, as well as my personal experience having been a long timer player, and active forum participant of many online games.

There are no guarantees when it comes to peoples reactions, but the pattern does seem to be repeating. Generally 90% of complaints are made by less than 10% of the consumers of any given product, and these 10% seem to be near impossible to satisfy. Prusuing this segment will likely result in the given product over time being warped into something that still doesn't satisfy the 10% complaining customers, while the remaning 90% that wasn't complaining in the first place may think the products new form unappealing and find something else to replace it.

During numerous case studies, i've found that it is not industry dependant, but it is very noticable when working with products that have an online forum, as it gives customers a place to voice their frustrations. I have seen products that have close to 95% approval rating amongst the customer base when asked directly, yet the forums related to the very same products are full of people complaining about this and that. Forums simply put, are no where near an accurate representation of the customer base, and thus one would be a fool to make desicions based upon oppinions voiced in them.

I don't doubt any of this, and I won't say anything else on that matter because it would only come off flippant.

But none of that refutes the undeniable fact that there is a broken weapon currently in the game that is invalidating 9/10 of the other weapons and effectively reducing challenge and competitive balance.

As an alternative, introducing a Platinum level difficulty would mostly alleviate this- but a single weapon stat tweak seems a far more pragmatic and timely solution.

Modifié par Permafrost27, 08 juin 2012 - 01:57 .

[greghorvath]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

greghorvath wrote...
I don't even know the meaning of all words in my own language, let alone English... I have to say in my defense that I did google it...

Ah, well I suppose that explains the miscommunications re: what you think "nerfers" are asking for.

lol. You actually managed to make that jab against your own intelligence with that comment.

I am done with this conversation.

Modifié par greghorvath, 08 juin 2012 - 04:33 .

[King Ptolemy IV]

It doesn't need a nerf. Every other weapon *cough* assault rifles *cough* needs to be buffed.