17 réponses à ce sujet

[Blacklash93]

Before I start, I'll note that I'm very much aware other topics exist discussing the comic series, but they're basically dead threads. I'd like to start a fresh discussion where we can talk about how we felt about the comic series, its plot, and its contributions and hints to the lore and history of the Dragon Age world. All spoilers allowed.

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I thought the comic series was pretty good, personally.

Pros: Pacing was decent considering the brevity of the 6 issues and it gave some nice hints to the future of DA. We also learned some new things about Isabela and dragons which is always cool. Art was mostly good.

Cons: The payoff was terrible. We never find out what Maric's ultimate fate was (so they can milk it out in a new comic series, evidently) and that was a low blow seeing as that was a promised revelation in the beginning. Also all the new characters ended up dying... well maybe not Yavana as you never really now what's up with those witches.

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As for the new lore for the purpose of generating discussion, we discover things like:

- Maric was captured and imprisoned by the Antivan crows. Yavana, a daughter of Flemeth, rescued him to bring him to the Silent Grove where he would fufill his promise to Flemeth made in the novel The Stolen Throne.

- Flemeth's intended "posession" ritual DA:O was most likely misunderstood by Morrigan. Yavana laughs at the notion of Flemeth posessing her daughters, calls Morrigan a confused child, and declares "It is a gift."

- Flemeth has an interest in the survival of dragons. Enough to charge one of her daughters with protecting a haven for them.

- The blood of dragons is the "blood of the world". Their survival is somehow essential for life to exist.

- Dragons survived extinction by being "called" to the Silent Grove and being put to sleep in crystal (lyrium?) cocoons. The Silent Grove was built after the fall of the Tevinter Imperium for that very purpose. Their recent reappearance is due to Yavana awakening them.  As a personal observation, the chamber where they sleep was rather small, thus seemingly insufficient to repopulate them to the extent we see in the games, so it's possible other places like the Silent Grove exist (maybe even also under the watch of other daughters of Flemeth). The dragons can only be awakened by "power" and blood magic fits the bill.

- Alistair's bloodline is special and apparently quite potent in blood magic. The bloodline harkens from a time where the Veil did not exist and when dragons ruled the skies of Thedas. Maric's promise was to help Yavana awaken these dragons with his blood. Maric was supposed to revive the "Great Ones" in particular who are likely the most powerful dragons sleeping in the Grove. Maric managed to revive one of them, a seemingly tamed high dragon refered to by Yavana as her "Queen of Dragons", before unforseen circumstances arised.

- Isabela actually did hire Zevran to kill her husband because he wanted her to "entertain" his friends. Her husband's name was Luis.

- A man named Aurelian Titus, probably a magister, kidnapped Maric from Yavana to use his blood for unknown ends. Thus the new comic series coming later this year. He was searching for the Silent Grove using an agent and is interested in the particular high dragon that guards it with Yavana; the "queen" mentioned before.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 07 juin 2012 - 05:09 .

[David Gaider]

Blacklash93 wrote...
Cons: The payoff was terrible. We never find out what Maric's ultimate fate was (so they can milk it out in a new comic series, evidently) and that was a low blow seeing as that was a promised revelation in the beginning. Also all the new characters ended up dying... well maybe not Yavana as you never really now what's up with those witches.

I'll just point out that there was no promised conclusion-- how could there be, considering that Alistair was searching for Maric was not even revealed until the second issue? The story was always planned to take place over multiple series... I get that some people like having self-contained stories that are completely wrapped up by the end, but please don't imply that wanting it and being promised it are the same thing.

Otherwise, I'm moving this thread over to the spoiler forum. Marking a thread as *SPOILERS* when it's specifically a non-spoiler forum is a pretty good indication it doesn't belong there.

Modifié par David Gaider, 07 juin 2012 - 05:50 .

[Blacklash93]

I assumed that it would be okay to put in the Registered Game Owner Forum because this is not DA2 specifically and also because my Dawn of the Seeker thread discussing spoilers was allowed there.

And I distinctly remember some of the comic descriptions mentioning the "true fate of King Maric" but looking back they said things like "learn more" and not "reveal" so I guess that's just my faulty memory again.

[David Gaider]

Blacklash93 wrote...
I assumed that it would be okay to put in the Registered Game Owner Forum because this is not DA2 specifically and also because my Dawn of the Seeker thread discussing spoilers was allowed there.

Understandable.

And I distinctly remember some of the comic descriptions mentioning the "true fate of King Maric" but looking back they said things like "learn more" and not "reveal" so I guess that's just my faulty memory again.

Yeah, I was a little concerned seeing people make the assumption this was a self-contained arc. Not that I'm a big fan of tying up every loose plot thread anyhow (obviously), but I'd rather avoid people being disappointed... especially since this is a story with a planned arc and an ending. It's just not one that will be tied up inside of 72 pages.

[rapscallioness]

So, this thread is still alive, right?

Wow, that is some interesting stuff. I gotta say. So many questions.

Yavana is awakening them. In a "pure" way I'm guessing. Since being awakened by the darkspawn/corruption basically tortures and taints the old god dragons.

I would think,( if you did dark ritual), that it would be strange for an old god who is accustomed to being in dragon form, to be in the body of a human child.

I need to step away. I'm still processing all this. And whatever implications. I do love this story. I hope BW really goes into this in their next installment. Simply because I think it's fascinating.

And I'm still trying to figure out Flemeth's interest in Warden and Hawke. Maybe it just served a purpose for her? But still odd that she saves both of them. And now they're gone.

And why is Yavana awakening them now? Is it for good? A time when dragons ruled the skies...is that something we really want to go back to?

Is the Maker really the Trickster god of elven lore? I read something in the codex that reminded of Merrill's story. It was a very similar story. One faction was imprisoned under ground...but then what about the other faction of gods?

And what makes Marric's blood so special? Because it comes from a time when there was no Veil? Were they the only humans then? That tells me that Alistair's bloodline is old, but not why it's special. And not why Yavana would need it to awaken these old gods.

And the dragon's being "called" reminds me of the little girl in Dawn of the Seeker. Her powers...though augmented by dragon's blood...to call the dragon's.

Hmm..I guess we'll just have to see.

Such a juicy story.

[Dave of Canada]

My curiosity about whether or not TSG's events occur with or without Alistair bothers me, I'm having trouble imagining Drunk Alistair going around and possibly stabbing Yavana and looking for Maric for example.

I mean, I doubt we'd hear about Yavana being alive if you didn't do King Alistair but the story only really works with the specific backstory. Just like how Wynne being dead should alter the events of Asunder pretty drastically, though chances are the world-state will be the same.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 juin 2012 - 09:27 .

[HiroVoid]

If there's one character that has an excuse for having appeared dead and coming back, it would be Wynne.

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

My curiosity about whether or not TSG's events occur with or without Alistair bothers me, I'm having trouble imagining Drunk Alistair going around and possibly stabbing Yavana and looking for Maric for example.

I can see Drunk Alistair doing all that. Especially if throughout the entire thing, he was consistently drunk. Well.... the stabbing part anyway.

But I do wonder how the Silent Grove -- and its followup comic -- would play out in a dead Alistair canon. Is Yavana still alive? Did Varric and Isabela go there anyway?

Warden Alistair and Drunk Alistair can be explained away... sort of. But Dead Alistair is going to be hard to have work.

This is even more reason why I hope Bioware abandons killing off companions as a means to get rid of them. It just seems to create more trouble then it's worth when they want to expand on the story of DA in non-game related media.

I'd much prefer they explore and continue to do other avenues -- some of which have been done in the past 2 games: Betrayal, fit of anger causing them to leave, etc.

But I really want killing them as a means to get rid of them to stop, so that if Bioware says "You know, this companion would work well for this story if they were a main character" they won't have to come up with some (possibly) convoluted alternate scenario as to how those events play out if that companion was killed.

The Silent Grove seems like it's going to have happened, anyway -- the general plot I mean -- so how it'd play out for other Alistair paths if we heard about things from it in the next game is beyond me.

Just like how Asunder -- though it was written with a Wynne is alive world-state -- happens anyway because of its critical importance to the story, circumstances within it being slightly different.

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There is another thing I'm curious about. Having not actually read the comics, I only have a basic understanding of the plot. I'm waiting for it to not be digital and be released in paper form.

What I do want to know though is this: Was Alistair (partially) seeking out Maric in the beginning of the comic so that Maric could take over the throne and Alistair wouldn't have to deal with it anymore? Or just because Maric's his father and he wants to rescue him? Or a combination of the two?

Aside from having gained information on where Maric was that would allow Alistair to rescue Maric, what were Alistair's motives for going through with it?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 juin 2012 - 10:25 .

[HiroVoid]

Yeah. It was a bit disappointing in Mass Effect 3 that it seems like all of the big choices simply revolved around trying to work around what companions died rather than what choices you made.

[Estelindis]

David Gaider wrote...
The story was always planned to take place over multiple series.

This pleases me.  I enjoyed the comics very much and would like to read more.

(As a side-note: I didn't think much of the Mass Effect comics, but I loved the ME DLC.  Conversely, I found Dragon Age DLC to be rather disappointing, but the DA comics are stunning.  I wonder if there's some way to distill the awesomeness in each case and apply it to the other!  Assuming, for no apparent reason, that my subjective tastes are the best possible standard of excellence...)

I feel a bit divided about the end of the comic, where Alistair killed Yavana.  (Second side-note: is her name a Silmarillion reference?)  On the one hand, it seemed like a rather brutal response to someone who had helped him.  On the other hand, I, like Alistair, am thoroughly sick of witches being mysterious and aloof, seeking help but never trusting enough to explain their ultimate goal.  Not being willing to explain something generally means, to me, that the person doubts I'd help them if I really understood what's at stake... and that, in turn, disinclines me to help them.  I felt that way about Morrigan, so I can understand why Alistair felt that way about Yavana.

Then again, a part of me knows that the audience has to be kept in suspense about the mystery at the heart of the series in order to build up anticipation.  So is this really the witches' fault or the writers'...?  ;-D

[Ausstig]

I really hope Yavana isn't dead, dress code aside, she was a new character, a neutralish character.

But sigh,

Alistair, you ****, why kill her? She was offering you what you most wanted!

[Blacklash93]

rapscallioness wrote...
Yavana is awakening them. In a "pure" way I'm guessing. Since being awakened by the darkspawn/corruption basically tortures and taints the old god dragons.

That makes me wonder about Alistair. He has the darkspawn corruption in his blood. Wouldn't that make him unfit to awaken them?

Though I suppose Yavana may just need the "power" of his blood and not put the dragon in direct contact with it. I don't think magic/spells change in nature no matter what kind of blood they are fueled by.

I really hope Yavana isn't dead, dress code aside, she was a new character, a neutralish character.

If it offers any hope there's a pinkish-purple snake in the foreground in the second-to-last panel that just happens to be the exact same color of Yavana's attire and we know how these shapeshifters work. Also the high dragon chose to attend to Yavana when Alistair killed her instead of attack him and that dragon is stated to be special somehow. Maybe it revived her.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 09 juin 2012 - 12:36 .

[TEWR]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I don't think magic/spells change in nature no matter what kind of blood they are fueled by.

Not all the time. Remember that Legacy's seals could only be reinforced with non-Warden blood. To that end, the Wardens always sought out non-Warden Mages to perform the required blood magic spells on the seals.

[Fallstar]

To the OP, thanks for the summary of the plot, it seems these comics are actually quite important to the overall story of the DA universe. It has got me wondering about that part with Yavana and the posession ritual; does it imply that Yavana has already received Flemeth's 'gift', or that she is simply going along with what Flemeth told her?

If the first, it seems a bit odd that Flemeth didn't mention anything about that when you 'kill' her. Even though she survives, it would still have been less of an inconvenience to her if she didn't have to sit around twiddling her thumbs in an amulet waiting for Hawke to bring her back, so to speak.

It also seems that Flemeth has taken it upon herself to protect these dragons then, and thus ensure the safety of the world. She seems somewhat more concerned with the wellbeing of Thedas than you'd expect from a Demon-Dragon-Maleficar-Thing.

[Fallstar]

I also still think Maric is dead. Whilst this comic reveals that he didn't die at sea, there is still that quest in the Denerim Alienage in Origins where you have to take that Templar through a demon infested orphanage, and at one point you hear this child's voice singing what sounds like a nursery rhyme that begins with "One Two, Maric's run through".

[Gervaise]

A couple of points I'd like clarification on because I hadn't picked up on them before:
a) What is this about at one time there was no veil? According to one codex, a mage explains that the veil is no so much a physical barrier as a mental one. Mages can enter it in waking state, whilst everyone else can only do so in their dreams. However, we are also told that the elves claim that at one time they could all do magic - so effectively there was no veil as they could all be simultaneously in the material world and the spiritual one. Is this is what is meant?
In what way is the blood of the dragons the blood of the world? Does their blood flow with lyrium? It has previously been hinted that lyrium is in some way linked to the essence of life.

Was the above information supplied by Yavana? Is it reliable?

[Fallstar]

Gervaise wrote...

A couple of points I'd like clarification on because I hadn't picked up on them before:
a) What is this about at one time there was no veil? According to one codex, a mage explains that the veil is no so much a physical barrier as a mental one. Mages can enter it in waking state, whilst everyone else can only do so in their dreams. However, we are also told that the elves claim that at one time they could all do magic - so effectively there was no veil as they could all be simultaneously in the material world and the spiritual one. Is this is what is meant?
In what way is the blood of the dragons the blood of the world? Does their blood flow with lyrium? It has previously been hinted that lyrium is in some way linked to the essence of life.

Was the above information supplied by Yavana? Is it reliable?

That info is given by Yavana. Since she is a brand new character with about 100 words of dialogue so far, kind of hard to say how trustworthy she is.

[Blacklash93]

Anyone else think this might tell us something about Dragon Cults? You think after repeatedly ingesting dragon blood they've picked up on this "blood of the world" thing albeit in a deluded way? Dragons, at least some, don't seem to be the simple animals they're commonly viewed as. That high dragon guarding the grove acted pretty intelligently and was completely cooperative with Yavana.

I'm convinced dragons are Cthulhu. Yavana calls the "blood of the world" nature to them something incomprehensible to the Alistair and co. Insane cults. Old Gods.

The Reapers and Dragons should totally go out on a dinner date. They can talk about how no one can understand their destructive tendencies and how fun it is to drive people insane and how they preserve life. They were made for each other.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 12 juin 2012 - 11:47 .