355 réponses à ce sujet

[SwitchN7]

Lovely thread...Just kidding.The game is GOTY material.Stop being so serious.

[lillitheris]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

11. Subjective. And I cant wait to see Extended Cut make all you ending haters eat your words. I've been saying for a long time that you guys ignore the context behind the ending and obsess over similar cinematics like ignorant children.

Wait, I’m sorry, is this the Extended Cut that our baseless whining compelled them to make upon realizing the deep disappointment throughout their playerbase? The one that you wouldn’t get if we hadn’t complained?

…

I should also point out, since it was probably too oblique for the illustrious pro-end cadre to understand, that I don’t really hate the game…

The black-and-white framing of the issue is especially delicious coming from someone who argues that people ‘hate’ the game because they don’t see all of its nuances…

[Robhuzz]

SwitchN7 wrote...

Lovely thread...Just kidding.The game is GOTY material.Stop being so serious.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 08 juin 2012 - 09:23 .

[Rockworm503]

SwitchN7 wrote...

Lovely thread...Just kidding.The game is GOTY material.Stop being so serious.

worst  year for gaming if true.

[ghost9191]

due to the fact people (and by people i mean you(and by you i mean the person reading this))are still on thread talking about the game they did something right, or wrong whichever you feel. but it is close to game of the year but still early , well halfway

[wright1978]

naughty99 wrote...

In contrast, with ME3, I was finally free to select dialogue options I felt my Shepard character would choose regardless of what the silly label was. In ME3, those kinds of "hard to get" dialogue options are based on your total reputation. It was very liberating and for me this was a massive, massive improvement over ME2.

I'll agree that reputation system was an idea that was an improvement in theory. However it boggles my mind that they would make this small improvement but at the same time butcher the dialogue wheel and add tons of auto-dialogued character defining tripe. Also rather than working neutral options into new reputation system they stripped them out lessening freedom to select dilaogue options on those rare occasions the dialogue wheel actually emerges from hiding.

Modifié par wright1978, 08 juin 2012 - 09:42 .

[naughty99]

wright1978 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

In contrast, with ME3, I was finally free to select dialogue options I felt my Shepard character would choose regardless of what the silly label was. In ME3, those kinds of "hard to get" dialogue options are based on your total reputation. It was very liberating and for me this was a massive, massive improvement over ME2.

I'll agree that reputation system was an idea that was an improvement in theory. However it boggles my mind that they would make this small improvement but at the same time butcher the dialogue wheel and add tons of auto-dialogued character defining tripe. Also rather than working neutral options into new reputation system they stripped them out lessening freedom to select dilaogue options on those rare occasions the dialogue wheel actually emerges from hiding.

I can understand what you mean, but for me this was no small improvement.

It was the difference between dialogue as a kind of mini-game without any identification with the character vs. finally being able to play a role and choose what my version of Shepard would say.

As for the cut scenes where Shepard does or says something that goes against the character you want to play, this has been a huge problem in both ME1 and ME2. There's not really any way to resolve that other than either (a) reduce the cut scenes or ( increase the production budget and produce ten times more cut scenes so you can show more variations on everything.

Personally I would not necessarily enjoy option (, even if it were possible, simply because I'd rather the focus be on gameplay than cut scenes. Movies are great, but if I'm playing a game, I don't want to sit there passively watching a long animated movie, even if there are places where you can press buttons.

Modifié par naughty99, 08 juin 2012 - 09:51 .

[ghost9191]

naughty99 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

In contrast, with ME3, I was finally free to select dialogue options I felt my Shepard character would choose regardless of what the silly label was. In ME3, those kinds of "hard to get" dialogue options are based on your total reputation. It was very liberating and for me this was a massive, massive improvement over ME2.

I'll agree that reputation system was an idea that was an improvement in theory. However it boggles my mind that they would make this small improvement but at the same time butcher the dialogue wheel and add tons of auto-dialogued character defining tripe. Also rather than working neutral options into new reputation system they stripped them out lessening freedom to select dilaogue options on those rare occasions the dialogue wheel actually emerges from hiding.

I can understand what you mean, but for me this was no small improvement.

It was the difference between dialogue as a kind of mini-game without any identification with the character vs. finally being able to play a role and choose what my version of Shepard would say.

As for the cut scenes where Shepard does or says something that goes against the character you want to play, this has been a huge problem in both ME1 and ME2. There's not really any way to resolve that other than either (a) reduce the cut scenes or ( increase the production budget and produce ten times more cut scenes so you can show more variations on everything.

Personally I would not necessarily enjoy option (, even if it were possible, simply because I'd rather the focus be on gameplay than cut scenes. Movies are great, but if I'm playing a game, I don't want to sit there passively watching a long animated movie, even if there are places where you can press buttons.

i hear fps are great for that, oh and they are shiny too so that will help keep your attention   sorry been up for awhile, feel like being a dbag

leaving now

Modifié par ghost9191, 08 juin 2012 - 09:54 .

[naughty99]

ghost9191 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

In contrast, with ME3, I was finally free to select dialogue options I felt my Shepard character would choose regardless of what the silly label was. In ME3, those kinds of "hard to get" dialogue options are based on your total reputation. It was very liberating and for me this was a massive, massive improvement over ME2.

I'll agree that reputation system was an idea that was an improvement in theory. However it boggles my mind that they would make this small improvement but at the same time butcher the dialogue wheel and add tons of auto-dialogued character defining tripe. Also rather than working neutral options into new reputation system they stripped them out lessening freedom to select dilaogue options on those rare occasions the dialogue wheel actually emerges from hiding.

I can understand what you mean, but for me this was no small improvement.

It was the difference between dialogue as a kind of mini-game without any identification with the character vs. finally being able to play a role and choose what my version of Shepard would say.

As for the cut scenes where Shepard does or says something that goes against the character you want to play, this has been a huge problem in both ME1 and ME2. There's not really any way to resolve that other than either (a) reduce the cut scenes or ( increase the production budget and produce ten times more cut scenes so you can show more variations on everything.

Personally I would not necessarily enjoy option (, even if it were possible, simply because I'd rather the focus be on gameplay than cut scenes. Movies are great, but if I'm playing a game, I don't want to sit there passively watching a long animated movie, even if there are places where you can press buttons.

i hear fps are great for that

 great for what, exactly?

[ghost9191]

naughty99 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

In contrast, with ME3, I was finally free to select dialogue options I felt my Shepard character would choose regardless of what the silly label was. In ME3, those kinds of "hard to get" dialogue options are based on your total reputation. It was very liberating and for me this was a massive, massive improvement over ME2.

I'll agree that reputation system was an idea that was an improvement in theory. However it boggles my mind that they would make this small improvement but at the same time butcher the dialogue wheel and add tons of auto-dialogued character defining tripe. Also rather than working neutral options into new reputation system they stripped them out lessening freedom to select dilaogue options on those rare occasions the dialogue wheel actually emerges from hiding.

I can understand what you mean, but for me this was no small improvement.

It was the difference between dialogue as a kind of mini-game without any identification with the character vs. finally being able to play a role and choose what my version of Shepard would say.

As for the cut scenes where Shepard does or says something that goes against the character you want to play, this has been a huge problem in both ME1 and ME2. There's not really any way to resolve that other than either (a) reduce the cut scenes or ( increase the production budget and produce ten times more cut scenes so you can show more variations on everything.

Personally I would not necessarily enjoy option (, even if it were possible, simply because I'd rather the focus be on gameplay than cut scenes. Movies are great, but if I'm playing a game, I don't want to sit there passively watching a long animated movie, even if there are places where you can press buttons.

i hear fps are great for that

 great for what, exactly?

it was partly a joke, but from what i got you were saying you would like them to focus more on combat and such instead of story, but it is a rpg, well was and mostly, basicly it is heavy on the story, whereas fps focus more on combat. like i said, tired and probably miss read what you put

[naughty99]

ghost9191 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

In contrast, with ME3, I was finally free to select dialogue options I felt my Shepard character would choose regardless of what the silly label was. In ME3, those kinds of "hard to get" dialogue options are based on your total reputation. It was very liberating and for me this was a massive, massive improvement over ME2.

I'll agree that reputation system was an idea that was an improvement in theory. However it boggles my mind that they would make this small improvement but at the same time butcher the dialogue wheel and add tons of auto-dialogued character defining tripe. Also rather than working neutral options into new reputation system they stripped them out lessening freedom to select dilaogue options on those rare occasions the dialogue wheel actually emerges from hiding.

I can understand what you mean, but for me this was no small improvement.

It was the difference between dialogue as a kind of mini-game without any identification with the character vs. finally being able to play a role and choose what my version of Shepard would say.

As for the cut scenes where Shepard does or says something that goes against the character you want to play, this has been a huge problem in both ME1 and ME2. There's not really any way to resolve that other than either (a) reduce the cut scenes or ( increase the production budget and produce ten times more cut scenes so you can show more variations on everything.

Personally I would not necessarily enjoy option (, even if it were possible, simply because I'd rather the focus be on gameplay than cut scenes. Movies are great, but if I'm playing a game, I don't want to sit there passively watching a long animated movie, even if there are places where you can press buttons.

i hear fps are great for that

 great for what, exactly?

it was partly a joke, but from what i got you were saying you would like them to focus more on combat and such instead of story, but it is a rpg, well was and mostly, basicly it is heavy on the story, whereas fps focus more on combat. like i said, tired and probably miss read what you put

I enjoy RPGs most when the narrative is told through the course of gameplay, where you are still actively in control of your character, talking with NPCs, interacting with the world, solving mysteries, etc.

There's no reason we have to go into a ten minute animated movie every time we talk to somebody. 

If I'm passively watching a cut scene, I'm not controlling that character on the screen, what he/she says, what he/she does. It's very unlikely that a cut scene is going to reflect exactly the way you would have your character interact. Usually a cut scene results in a break with the role playing.

Cut scenes can also reduce the replay value of any game, especially if it's unskippable. Once I've seen it, I don't want to watch the same movie again.

Modifié par naughty99, 08 juin 2012 - 10:14 .

[wright1978]

naughty99 wrote...

I enjoy RPGs most when the narrative is told through the course of gameplay, where you are still actively in control of your character, talking with NPCs, interacting with the world, solving mysteries, etc.

There's no reason we have to go into a ten minute animated movie every time we talk to somebody. 

If I'm passively watching a cut scene, I'm not controlling that character on the screen, what he/she says, what he/she does. It's very unlikely that a cut scene is going to reflect exactly the way you would have your character interact. Usually a cut scene results in a break with the role playing.

Cut scenes can also reduce the replay value of any game, especially if it's unskippable. Once I've seen it, I don't want to watch the same movie again.

I don't mind cutscenes when they are designed like ME2's, where the basis of the cutscene is that player characterisation is key and cutscenes are built around this premise. Me3 seems to have discared this notion and built from the premise of making huge sprawling epic cutascenes and that running roughshod over player characterisation is an acceptable casualty. I love re-watching ME2's cutscenes because i know the cutscene will finish and the dialogue wheel will emerge, whereas i hate ME3's cutscenes as they are 10 minute scenes where the dialogue wheel never emerges.

[naughty99]

wright1978 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

I enjoy RPGs most when the narrative is told through the course of gameplay, where you are still actively in control of your character, talking with NPCs, interacting with the world, solving mysteries, etc.

There's no reason we have to go into a ten minute animated movie every time we talk to somebody. 

If I'm passively watching a cut scene, I'm not controlling that character on the screen, what he/she says, what he/she does. It's very unlikely that a cut scene is going to reflect exactly the way you would have your character interact. Usually a cut scene results in a break with the role playing.

Cut scenes can also reduce the replay value of any game, especially if it's unskippable. Once I've seen it, I don't want to watch the same movie again.

I don't mind cutscenes when they are designed like ME2's, where the basis of the cutscene is that player characterisation is key and cutscenes are built around this premise. Me3 seems to have discared this notion and built from the premise of making huge sprawling epic cutascenes and that running roughshod over player characterisation is an acceptable casualty. I love re-watching ME2's cutscenes because i know the cutscene will finish and the dialogue wheel will emerge, whereas i hate ME3's cutscenes as they are 10 minute scenes where the dialogue wheel never emerges.

In my case, I had the opposite experience.

I never felt any connection with Shepard during many of the cutscenes in ME2, especially related to dialogue, because most of the time I had to click choices to get the paragon or renegade points instead of being able to choose whatever I felt my character would say. As a result the cut scene was, of course, the stock "renegade points" cut scene during every interaction, or the stock paragon points cut scene during every interaction. And half the time, what was renegade and what was paragon didn't make sense, or it was counter intuitive.

With ME3, yes there were certainly some long cut scenes. On average, I don't recall them being any longer than ME2's cut scenes, but I'll take your word for it. However, at least in the case of the dialogue cut scenes, I was much more engaged with Shepard on a player characterization level, because for the very first time in the entire history of the Mass Effect series, I could finally select any dialogue options I felt my character would choose, without worrying about collecting enough Rene/Par points. As a result, for the very first time, I saw a lot of dialogue cut scenes that reflected more closely the role I wanted to play, and it felt closer to actually playing a role. 

Modifié par naughty99, 08 juin 2012 - 10:51 .

[lillitheris]

There’s way too little hate going on, guys, with this nonsense about agreeing that there are good things and bad things about ME3.

[abaris]

naughty99 wrote...

I never felt any connection with Shepard during many of the cutscenes in ME2, especially related to dialogue, because most of the time I had to click choices to get the paragon or renegade points instead of being able to choose whatever I felt my character would say.

But that's you own fault or choice then. I always choose what I feel my character would say, regardless of Paragon or Renegade. With ME3 that's nearly gone and you follow a railroad to what the developers want you character to be like.

[lillitheris]

Oh, good, there we go.

[naughty99]

abaris wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

I never felt any connection with Shepard during many of the cutscenes in ME2, especially related to dialogue, because most of the time I had to click choices to get the paragon or renegade points instead of being able to choose whatever I felt my character would say.

As a result the cut scene was, of course, the stock "renegade points" cut scene during every interaction, or the stock paragon points cut scene during every interaction. And half the time, what was renegade and what was paragon didn't make sense, or it was counter intuitive.

But that's you own fault or choice then. I always choose what I feel my character would say, regardless of Paragon or Renegade. With ME3 that's nearly gone and you follow a railroad to what the developers want you character to be like.

The Shepard I played in ME2 was always a smartass, always siding with the Illusive Man and Cerberus, and also did a lot of other stuff that didn't make sense, just because those were the dialogue choices I needed in order to get the renegade points.

In ME3, on the other hand, I got to finally discover what the Shepard I really wanted to play was like. I started out a little similar, she was often aggressive, but I learned she has a softer side. For example, when Liara asked if I was having trouble sleeeping or dealing with the stress of seeing Earth destroyed, I actually had to think, Hmm...how do I feel about it? And I was able to pick whatever I thought Shepard would really say, which was, to be honest with Liara. 

If this was ME2, I would have had to be a hardass and say some rude comment in order to get the renegade points. 

In case after case, I actually had to ask myself, what would (my) Shepard say or do. Never had that experience with ME2, because it was always "pick the renegade option."  ME3 has flaws, certainly, but as far as role playing goes, it is head and shoulders above ME2. In ME2, the dialogue is more like a mini-game, in fact the game penalizes you for attempting to role play.

Modifié par naughty99, 08 juin 2012 - 10:56 .

[Icemix]

Seboist wrote...

Icemix wrote...

Lol if ME 3 is a mediocore game, what is a superb game?

A game that succeeds in fulfilling what it set out to do gameplay and narrative-wise unlike this POS.

How about you name a game?

[Aurora313]

I miss the depth of conversations that I could haev in 1. I could ask about everything, even if the character was seemingly unimportant. And I had the 'investigate' option. I missed that, shockingly. Sure, fourth of fifth playthrough its completely ignored, but it doesn't change the fact that I still liked the option to inquire into things.

[wright1978]

abaris wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

I never felt any connection with Shepard during many of the cutscenes in ME2, especially related to dialogue, because most of the time I had to click choices to get the paragon or renegade points instead of being able to choose whatever I felt my character would say.

But that's you own fault or choice then. I always choose what I feel my character would say, regardless of Paragon or Renegade. With ME3 that's nearly gone and you follow a railroad to what the developers want you character to be like.

Same here. Always chose dialogue that i thought suited my character in previous games regardless of para/rene points. Unfortunately as you say that opportunity is nearly gone in ME3 due to the railroading through heaps and heaps of auto-dialogue. Sure they removed the paragon-renegade dialogue restrictions but then there so little presence of the dialogue wheel in relation to the amount of auto-dialogue shep speaks and when it does appear the choices are cut down, that that doesn't matter a hill of beans imo. Character railroading is everywhere the eye can see in ME3.

[Harorrd]

I came for the dialogue wheel, left when i was given 3 choices how to destroy the universe with magic

[naughty99]

wright1978 wrote...

abaris wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

I never felt any connection with Shepard during many of the cutscenes in ME2, especially related to dialogue, because most of the time I had to click choices to get the paragon or renegade points instead of being able to choose whatever I felt my character would say.

As a result the cut scene was, of course, the stock "renegade points" cut scene during every interaction, or the stock paragon points cut scene during every interaction. And half the time, what was renegade and what was paragon didn't make sense, or it was counter intuitive.

But that's you own fault or choice then. I always choose what I feel my character would say, regardless of Paragon or Renegade. With ME3 that's nearly gone and you follow a railroad to what the developers want you character to be like.

Same here. Always chose dialogue that i thought suited my character in previous games regardless of para/rene points. 

If you guys managed to always choose dialogue that suited your character in ME2, either your character was a delusional smartass sociopath, or a sniveling pushover, or you can never get enough points to unlock some important dialogue options later in the game.

The whole concept of making bonuses unlocked by constantly picking "rude" or "nice" dialogue choices is anathema to the essence of role playing. It's like converting any possiblity of engaging or identifying with your character into a mindless mini-game progression mechanic.

Getting rid of that was a huge improvement IMO, and made ME3 actually feel like a role-playing game, in stark contrast to how dialogue worked in the previous games in the series.

 

Modifié par naughty99, 08 juin 2012 - 11:24 .

[NedPepper]

I don't hate the game. But ignoring discontentment and a generalized apathy from many of the players is probably a bad move on Bioware's part. The endings seem to be the major point that has drawn all this venom and ire, but as someone said earlier, I do believe for most of the fans here that it comes from a place of CARING. And then there are just trolls who never liked the franchise to begin with or feel that it was dumbed down after the first one. Those people should have probably moved on a long time ago.

Bioware, namely the faces of this game, Casey and Mac, need to explain and TALK about their artisitic choices. They need to find some common ground. Because being silent is just making things worse. The result being threads like these.

For the record, in my own personal opinion, it's a really great game with a strange ending. And it's not that it's ambiguous or bitter sweet....but that it feels kind of unfinished. Hopefully the EC will take care of that. There really isn't a lot of replay value, but that first time through was a great ride. And I won't get at angry at Bioware for taking chances. I just wish they would actually talk about taking those chances.

Modifié par nedpepper, 08 juin 2012 - 03:08 .

[abaris]

naughty99 wrote...


In ME3, on the other hand, I got to finally discover what the Shepard I really wanted to play was like. I started out a little similar, she was often aggressive, but I learned she has a softer side. For example, when Liara asked if I was having trouble sleeeping or dealing with the stress of seeing Earth destroyed, I actually had to think, Hmm...how do I feel about it? And I was able to pick whatever I thought Shepard would really say, which was, to be honest with Liara.

Yeah, but that's your preference and it happens to coincide with what the devs wrote up. It's not about choice or even the illusion of choice anymore, it's about some canon character they needed to fit their story. Worst example is the kid, rubbed in your face every now and then. My Shepard, with all that's happening, wouldn't dream or talk about him at every given opportunity.

naughty99 wrote...

The whole concept of making bonuses
unlocked by constantly picking "rude" or "nice" dialogue choices is
anathema to the essence of role playing. It's like converting any
possiblity of engaging or identifying with your character into a
mindless mini-game progression mechanic.

I couldn't care less about unlocking bonusses. I picked what I felt was most fitting. And in most playthroughs I had Miranda or Jack turn on me because of that. That's fine, since obviously my character wasn't strong enough to make a difference.

Modifié par abaris, 08 juin 2012 - 11:29 .

[naughty99]

abaris wrote...

naughty99 wrote...


In ME3, on the other hand, I got to finally discover what the Shepard I really wanted to play was like. I started out a little similar, she was often aggressive, but I learned she has a softer side. For example, when Liara asked if I was having trouble sleeeping or dealing with the stress of seeing Earth destroyed, I actually had to think, Hmm...how do I feel about it? And I was able to pick whatever I thought Shepard would really say, which was, to be honest with Liara.

Yeah, but that's your preference and it happens to coincide with what the devs wrote up. It's not about choice or even the illusion of choice anymore, it's about some canon character they needed to fit their story. Worst example is the kid, rubbed in your face every now and then. My Shepard, with all that's happening, wouldn't dream or talk about him at every given opportunity.

naughty99 wrote...

The whole concept of making bonuses
unlocked by constantly picking "rude" or "nice" dialogue choices is
anathema to the essence of role playing. It's like converting any
possiblity of engaging or identifying with your character into a
mindless mini-game progression mechanic.

I couldn't care less about unlocking bonusses. I picked what I felt was most fitting. And in most playthroughs I had Miranda or Jack turn on me because of that. That's fine, since obviously my character wasn't strong enough to make a difference.

It's not only having Miranda and Jack turn on you, but there is important content, the Morinth companion character, that you can only unlock if you are mindlessly clicking "nice guy" or "rude" all the way through the game up to that point.

In other words, the reputation system, which should be designed or intended to enhance the roleplaying aspect of the game, actually functioned in a perverse way in ME2, so that the only way you can unlock this companion character is by not roleplaying at all, but instead clicking the stock responses all the time like a mini-game .

Modifié par naughty99, 08 juin 2012 - 11:38 .