310 réponses à ce sujet

[HulkSmashU]

HULK Forgot:

i believe in god and know spiritual.but as to religions HULK SAYS NO

personally Hulk respects those who believe or dont..those who wait for facts or it to jump out like that fool thor and say it dos/dosnt exist annoy me.make a choice or go and play with thor

[RAF1940]

Para-Medic wrote...

Modifié par RAF1940, 07 juin 2012 - 08:10 .

[billy the squid]

HulkSmashU wrote...

HULK Forgot:

i believe in god and know spiritual.but as to religions HULK SAYS NO

personally Hulk respects those who believe or dont..those who wait for facts or it to jump out like that fool thor and say it dos/dosnt exist annoy me.make a choice or go and play with thor

*facpalm* yeah because everything in life is black and white and we have to commit oneway or another. Who cares really.... other than you.

[HulkSmashU]

billy the squid wrote...

HulkSmashU wrote...

HULK Forgot:

i believe in god and know spiritual.but as to religions HULK SAYS NO

personally Hulk respects those who believe or dont..those who wait for facts or it to jump out like that fool thor and say it dos/dosnt exist annoy me.make a choice or go and play with thor

*facpalm* yeah because everything in life is black and white and we have to commit oneway or another. Who cares really.... other than you.

I know i faceplam to when i see thor, im like that guy ahh *hulk punch ground* hes just so sooo thor you know?
humans make things gray and the end of life it is black and white.i know this because i am hulk and hulk knows all

[Volus Warlord]

DuckSoup wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

DuckSoup wrote...

Does it matter what Erik is? He says he doesn't know what to believe in and doesn't want to. That should pretty much be the end of the matter.

Yes, it does matter and at the same time it doesn't. It matters in a discussion or debate about the subject of God or other supernatural subjects. But it doesn't matter in everyday life.

Not knowing what to believe and not caring either way is labeled as Apatheism, so that's what he is and that's fine. Everyone can be what he/she wants to be.

"Gay, straight, retarded... Why do we have to put labels on everything?"

"If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything."

[HulkSmashU]

This thread has become

*hulk leaves....for now*

[Siansonea]

For me, the religion question is pretty simple. If you presuppose gods exist, then okay, which ones? All of them? Because they all have competing claims, they can't all be real. Okay, so maybe just one or two or three of them? Okay, well then why are there all these other rival claimants? The fact is that the one factor that determines your religious affiliation more than anything else is the country your parents were born in. If you're from Iran, you're more than likely a follower of Islam. If you're from Israel, you're more than likely a follower of Judaism. If you're from China, you're probably Buddhist. If you're European, you're probably Christian or atheist. And if you're from the American South, you're even more likely to be Christian.

But let's look at Christianity, for example. Christianity presupposes that the Hebrew God of Judaism is the One True God, but because he had created this system of punishment for the Jews, he couldn't renege on that deal without changing the rules somehow. So how does he change the rules? Through a blood sacrifice. And not just any blood sacrifice, a blood sacrifice of a divine entity, a god, in human form, his "son". A human that is also himself, somehow. And then there's something called the Holy Spirit in the mix somewhere. I don't pretend to understand that one.

Well, unfortunately, for all its rebranding and deregulation of Judaism, Christianity still suffers from the baggage that Judaism brings with it, namely impossibly absurd claims like the earth being made in seven days, women being made from the rib of a man, etc. And then there's the problem of the morality of the god of Judaism. This is an entity that created humans in a quasi-mindless state, "without knowledge of good and evil", then placed the means to acquire that knowledge within their grasp, even though he/it says he/it didn't want them to have it. Was there nowhere else in Creation the trees of Eternal Life and Knowledge Of Good And Evil could be placed, did they have to be growing smack dab in the middle of Adam and Eve's glorified hamster cage?

Whatever. In any case, Yahweh decides to threaten A&E with DEATH if they eat from either of those two trees. I don't know about you, but if I'm one of the first two humans ever, and I don't know the difference between good and evil, and I'm running around naked like it's 1968 and I'm in Haight-Ashbury, I might be a little unclear on the concept of what "death" is. So yeah, obey Yahweh why? And then, lo and behold, along comes a talking snake and says "he is so trolling you right now, that fruit is SO not poisonous OMG you will SO not die like he said, trussssst meeeee." And sure enough, after Evie snacks on some Knowledge, she doesn't die, and neither does Adam. Don't forget, Yahweh said they would DIE if they ate the fruit. They didn't. The fruit didn't kill them, and neither did Mr. Snittypants himself through lightning or whatever. They were banished from their hamster cage, so they wouldn't eat Eternal Life Fruit, but otherwise they were pretty much unharmed.

So yeah, looks like Yahweh either out-and-out LIED, or he/it changed his mind. Neither of those are the actions of a "perfect" being, but then neither is destroying almost all life on the planet in a fit of rage because of some vaguely-specified "wickedness" that humans were getting up to. And telling one of your faithful servants to kill his own son as a sacrifice isn't exactly Perfect Good Being behavior either. And there are numerous examples of downright evil behavior by the Christian/Jewish god in the Bible, forcing his own son to be slaughtered in order to change the rules that he made in the first place being only one of the most recent ones.

So yeah, can't really bring myself to lend credence to such an entity. If he was somehow proved to be real, I STILL wouldn't worship him, because he's demonstrably evil.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 07 juin 2012 - 08:21 .

[C9316]

They see me mowin' my front lawn, and they're all thinkin' I'm so white and nerdy...
*Hums song*

[Volus Warlord]

Siansonea II wrote...

For me, the religion question is pretty simple. If you presuppose gods exist, then okay, which ones? All of them? Because they all have competing claims, they can't all be real. Okay, so maybe just one or two or three of them? Okay, well then why are there all these other rival claimants? The fact is that the one factor that determines your religious affiliation more than anything else is the country your parents were born in. If you're from Iran, you're more than likely a follower of Islam. If you're from Israel, you're more than likely a follower of Judaism. If you're from China, you're probably Buddhist. If you're European, you're probably Christian or atheist. And if you're from the American South, you're even more likely to be Christian.

But let's look at Christianity, for example. Christianity presupposes that the Hebrew God of Judaism is the One True God, but because he had created this system of punishment for the Jews, he couldn't renege on that deal without changing the rules somehow. So how does he change the rules? Through a blood sacrifice. And not just any blood sacrifice, a blood sacrifice of a divine entity, a god, in human form, his "son". A human that is also himself, somehow. And then there's something called the Holy Spirit in the mix somewhere. I don't pretend to understand that one.

Well, unfortunately, for all its rebranding and deregulation of Judaism, Christianity still suffers from the baggage that Judaism brings with it, namely impossibly absurd claims like the earth being made in seven days, women being made from the rib of a man, etc. And then there's the problem of the morality of the god of Judaism. This is an entity that created humans in a quasi-mindless state, "without knowledge of good and evil", then placed the means to acquire that knowledge within their grasp, even though he/it says he/it didn't want them to have it. Was there nowhere else in Creation the trees of Eternal Life and Knowledge Of Good And Evil could be placed, did they have to be growing smack dab in the middle of Adam and Eve's glorified hamster cage?

Whatever. In any case, Yahweh decides to threaten A&E with DEATH if they eat from either of those two trees. I don't know about you, but if I'm one of the first two humans ever, and I don't know the difference between good and evil, and I'm running around naked like it's 1968 and I'm in Haight-Ashbury, I might be a little unclear on the concept of what "death" is. So yeah, obey Yahweh why? And then, lo and behold, along comes a talking snake and says "he is so trolling you right now, that fruit is SO not poisonous OMG you will SO not die like he said, trussssst meeeee." And sure enough, after Evie snacks on some Knowledge, she doesn't die, and neither does Adam. Don't forget, Yahweh said they would DIE if they ate the fruit. They didn't. The fruit didn't kill them, and neither did Mr. Snittypants himself through lightning or whatever. They were banished from their hamster cage, so they wouldn't eat Eternal Life Fruit, but otherwise they were unharmed.

So yeah, looks like Yahweh either out-and-out LIED, or he/it changed his mind. Neither of those are the actions of a "perfect" being, but then neither is destroying almost all life on the planet in a fit of rage because of some vaguely-specified "wickedness" that humans were getting up to. And telling one of your faithful servants to kill his own son as a sacrifice isn't exactly Perfect Good Being behavior either. And there are numerous examples of downright evil behavior by the Christian/Jewish god in the Bible, forcing his own son to be slaughtered in order to change the rules that he made in the first place being only one of the most recent ones.

So yeah, can't really bring myself to lend credence to such an entity. If he was somehow proved to be real, I STILL wouldn't worship him, because he's demonstrably evil.

 That's good. 

[Blacklash93]

Volus Warlord wrote...
"If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything."

Not how I would put it. Labels don't mean you "stand" for anything. I can consider myself or someone something but that doesn't put anyone under any banner.

Rather, labels are part of language and we use them to distinguish things from each other and recognize what things mean. How would you like going to a grocery store with nothing labeled?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 07 juin 2012 - 08:25 .

[RAF1940]

C9316 wrote...

They see me mowin' my front lawn, and they're all thinkin' I'm so white and nerdy...
*Hums song*

First in my class here at MIT, got skills, I'm a champion of D&D...

MC Escher, that's my favorite MC, keep your 40, I'll just have an Earl Grey tea...

[RAF1940]

greengoron89 wrote...

"Wise-sounding quotes, the truth does not make."

Win.