518 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

mass perfection wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
So low EMS and destroying the Collector base makes your willpower strong enough to only give you Destroy?

Yes but your EMS sucks so you're gonna die anyway.

From what Shepard will die, though? acording to the IT, No matter what both control and synthesis will surely make Shepard to submit. But if destroy is going against the reaper's will... Why would Shep die?

Tiny EMS means tiny army, so Shepard has less cover while lying unconcious on Earth.

But harbinger killed them all.

He killed a few.

[Lord Goose]

He said STOP the Reapers not DESTROY them.

Yes, and?
He actually says that he stopped the Sovereign, and he stopped Harbinger and Collectors.

That's mainly because a human cannot destroy a Reaper personally, though.

[llbountyhunter]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

BTW, the fact you have synthesis only at a high EMS should not actually mean the choice is a reward, not a punishment if you picked it?

EMS, along with military power, dictates the complexity of the Crucible.  Having it as an option is its own reward, but it's not indicative of the "best ending". The R&D was just thorough enough to make it possible.

I know it's not the best ending. None of them are. But the fact you have it becuase you were awsome to get a high EMS means that synthesis is a reward choice. It should not be a punishment having the choice if you pick it.

Its lika "good control"

So Its a reward for those who tryed hard but didnt realize it was a trick

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 08 juin 2012 - 09:44 .

[balance5050]

Honstly, if control is a legitimate ending, I'm going to take full advantage and rule the galaxy with an iron fist, non of this "fly them into the sun" pansy stuff, if I choose control I want to control EVERYTHING!

I'll only do this if my dreams are crushed by the E.C. and I turn into a villain.

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Tiny EMS means tiny army, so Shepard has less cover while lying unconcious on Earth.

So why cotrol and synthesis will make you submit to the reapers on low EMS? Wouldn't you also die of being short from cover? 

The choice doesn't affect whether you live or die, the EMS does. Low EMS control probably means you die, even if you were going to be indoctrinated. Low EMS synthesis doesn't exist.

[Ageless Face]

llbountyhunter wrote...


Yeah, its probably a " control" but since you tried hard enough, maybe theres good side to it even though you didnt see past the deception.

What deception? If the catalyst is tricking us about control, he is also tricking us about destroy, as well as synthesis. the only truly correct choice if the IT is true is simply not choose. that way you are proving you don't believe the catalyst no matter what choice he is giving you. 

[KingZayd]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Tiny EMS means tiny army, so Shepard has less cover while lying unconcious on Earth.

So why cotrol and synthesis will make you submit to the reapers on low EMS? Wouldn't you also die of being short from cover? 

One thing I can see on their side is that if Shepard does submit, then there's no need for the Reaper forces to attack him any more.

How do they KNOW if he's given in to indoctrination. It's not like a special light turns on telling them Shepard's indoctrination is complete.

[dreamgazer]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EMS, along with military power, dictates the complexity of the Crucible.  Having it as an option is its own reward, but it's not indicative of the "best ending". The R&D was just thorough enough to make it possible.

I know it's not the best ending. None of them are. But the fact you have it becuase you were awsome to get a high EMS means that synthesis is a reward choice. It should not be a punishment having the choice if you pick it.

In terms of the grand-scale theory, it's only a punishment if you pick it.  The amount of materials and work put into erecting the Crucible establishes how complex it is---nothing more, nothing less---which opens synthesis up as an opportunity.  The "reward" is being able to consider it as a feasibility and projected answer for humanity through the device's construction.

The game also makes The Illusive Man's objective the blue/Paragon option and Anderson's objective the red/Renegade option, so it's pretty obvious that they're throwing traditional paradigms out the window in this sequence---and, quite possibly, manipulating your perception of what you see.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 08 juin 2012 - 09:46 .

[liggy002]

Lord Goose wrote...

He said STOP the Reapers not DESTROY them.

Yes, and?
He actually says that he stopped the Sovereign, and he stopped Harbinger and Collectors.

That's mainly because a human cannot destroy a Reaper personally, though.

And... Stop does not necessarily equal Destroy, that is all I am saying.  Maybe he does have Destroy in his mind but its possible that the  blue only ending is a reflection that Control is the more dominant side of his mind.

Past performance and behavior does not necessarily indicate what will happen in the future with any certainty.

Modifié par liggy002, 08 juin 2012 - 09:46 .

[KingZayd]

mass perfection wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
So low EMS and destroying the Collector base makes your willpower strong enough to only give you Destroy?

Yes but your EMS sucks so you're gonna die anyway.

From what Shepard will die, though? acording to the IT, No matter what both control and synthesis will surely make Shepard to submit. But if destroy is going against the reaper's will... Why would Shep die?

Tiny EMS means tiny army, so Shepard has less cover while lying unconcious on Earth.

But harbinger killed them all.

Not your squaddies, not Anderson, not Coats, obviously there are survivors.....

But they retreated.Also,they're alive in the "dream".Fro all you know they're dead in the real world.

They only retreated according to the dream. For all you know, there was no retreat, and Team Hammer is doing just fine.

[Ageless Face]

balance5050 wrote...

Honstly, if control is a legitimate ending, I'm going to take full advantage and rule the galaxy with an iron fist, non of this "fly them into the sun" pansy stuff, if I choose control I want to control EVERYTHING!

I'll only do this if my dreams are crushed by the E.C. and I turn into a villain.

It's legitimate as any other ending. If the catalyst is lying, he is lying about them all. 

[llbountyhunter]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...


Yeah, its probably a " control" but since you tried hard enough, maybe theres good side to it even though you didnt see past the deception.

What deception? If the catalyst is tricking us about control, he is also tricking us about destroy, as well as synthesis. the only truly correct choice if the IT is true is simply not choose. that way you are proving you don't believe the catalyst no matter what choice he is giving you. 

No because shepard put destroy in there not the catalyst/ reapers.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 08 juin 2012 - 09:49 .

[Taboo]

Yes.

I'd believe it if this was Inland Empire. This is not Inland Empire.

Id, Ego and Super Ego mean nothing here.

Who knows though. They may make into Inland Empire.

AS LONG AS THE RABBITS STAY AWAY.

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Honstly, if control is a legitimate ending, I'm going to take full advantage and rule the galaxy with an iron fist, non of this "fly them into the sun" pansy stuff, if I choose control I want to control EVERYTHING!

I'll only do this if my dreams are crushed by the E.C. and I turn into a villain.

It's legitimate as any other ending. If the catalyst is lying, he is lying about them all. 

All he says about the destroy ending is that the peace won't last, the Geth will die etc.
I'm fine with that all being a lie

[Ageless Face]

dreamgazer wrote...


In terms of the grand-scale theory, it's only a punishment if you pick it.  The amount of materials and work put into erecting the Crucible establishes how complex it is---nothing more, nothing less---which opens synthesis up as an opportunity.  The "reward" is being able to consider it as a feasibility and projected answer for humanity through the device's construction.

The game also makes The Illusive Man's objective the blue/Paragon option and Anderson's objective the red/Renegade option, so it's pretty obvious that they're throwing traditional paradigms out the window in this sequence---and, quite possibly, manipulating your perception of what you see.

What's the point giving us something to consider becuase we did a good job- if it will only result in Shepard's submission? Wouldn't be more smart to make the destroy option as the good one, then the catalyst will just mock the choice? 

And if they wanted to go full manipulative, woudn't they put TIM in destroy and Anderson in control? Just to make the manipulation more clear?

Modifié par HagarIshay, 08 juin 2012 - 09:54 .

[Lord Goose]

Maybe he does have Destroy in his mind but its possible that blue only ending is a reflection that Control is the more dominant side of his mind.

I don't see how "using Collectors technology against Reapers" means that he wants to control them.

Mind if I propose alternative explanation?

If the base is saved you will have that War Asset.

Military Strength: 110

Reaper brain.
The Illusive Man salvaged the most valuable part of the human proto-Reaper under construction by the Collectors: its central processor. This "brain" has been reactivated for use as a computational device, crunching unheard amounts of data in nanoseconds. The Crucible's engineers are dissecting the processor, working in strictly supervised, drone-assisted shifts. While direct contact with Reapers is dangerous, the engineers feel the risk is worth the potential discovery of vulnerabilities in Reaper construction.

If you destroy the base

After Commander Shepard destroyed the Collector base, Cerberus spent months picking through irradiated rubble for anything useful. The human proto-Reaper the Collectors were building lay in pieces. But its incomplete core survived. The power cell would have been capable of fueling a full-fledged Reaper. After studying the device, Cerberus modified it to fuel the Illusive Man's base. Alliance engineers believe they can use the core similarly to power the Crucible.

You see? It is easier to control the Reapers if you have brain of one of them installed on Crucible. And it is easier to destroy them if Crucible is powered by reapers heart.

And, actually "Reapers technology is a sin" goes out of the window anyway.

Modifié par Lord Goose, 08 juin 2012 - 09:51 .

[Ageless Face]

llbountyhunter wrote...


No because shepard put destroy in there not the catalyst/ reapers.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

[balance5050]

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Honstly, if control is a legitimate ending, I'm going to take full advantage and rule the galaxy with an iron fist, non of this "fly them into the sun" pansy stuff, if I choose control I want to control EVERYTHING!

I'll only do this if my dreams are crushed by the E.C. and I turn into a villain.

It's legitimate as any other ending. If the catalyst is lying, he is lying about them all. 

Sigh... acording to your opinion man, it hasn't been a legitimate option for millions of years and a tiny little ghost boy isn't going to convince me otherwise....

Modifié par balance5050, 08 juin 2012 - 09:54 .

[llbountyhunter]

Lord Goose wrote...

Maybe he does have Destroy in his mind but its possible that blue only ending is a reflection that Control is the more dominant side of his mind.

I don't see how "using Collectors technology against Reapers" means that he wants to control them.

Mind if I propose alternative explanation?

If the base is saved you will have that War Asset.

Military Strength: 110

Reaper brain.
The Illusive Man salvaged the most valuable part of the human proto-Reaper under construction by the Collectors: its central processor. This "brain" has been reactivated for use as a computational device, crunching unheard amounts of data in nanoseconds. The Crucible's engineers are dissecting the processor, working in strictly supervised, drone-assisted shifts. While direct contact with Reapers is dangerous, the engineers feel the risk is worth the potential discovery of vulnerabilities in Reaper construction.

If you destroy the base

After Commander Shepard destroyed the Collector base, Cerberus spent months picking through irradiated rubble for anything useful. The human proto-Reaper the Collectors were building lay in pieces. But its incomplete core survived. The power cell would have been capable of fueling a full-fledged Reaper. After studying the device, Cerberus modified it to fuel the Illusive Man's base. Alliance engineers believe they can use the core similarly to power the Crucible.

You see? It is easier to control the Reapers if you have brain of one of them installed on Crucible. And it is easier to destroy them if Crucible is powered by reapers heart.

And, actually "Reapers technology is a sin" goes out of the window anyway.

Also helps solidy the belief (seperate  of IT) the crucible being a reaper trap.


I mean really, you want to a reaper heart in there!?

[Taboo]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...


No because shepard put destroy in there not the catalyst/ reapers.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

Isn't THAT the truth.

[balance5050]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...


No because shepard put destroy in there not the catalyst/ reapers.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

Destroy is Shepard's doctrine, control and synthesis are the reapers doctrine, the destroy option was already there in sheps head, control and synthesis are the new options that Shepard wasn't thinking about before. 

Modifié par balance5050, 08 juin 2012 - 09:56 .

[llbountyhunter]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...


No because shepard put destroy in there not the catalyst/ reapers.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

They choices scene is not real. its a mental battle between shepard and harbinger (I'm my view) 

The end part is shepar and the reapers pushings there own sides on this. 

Shepard want destroy the reapers want control/synthesis. 

All shepard does is choose.

[Ageless Face]

balance5050 wrote...


Sigh... acording to your opinion woman, it hasn't been a legitimate option for millions of years and a tiny little ghost boy isn't going to convince me otherwise....

First, the bolded part- important.......Or not.

second, destroying all the reapers by shooting a tube was also not very legit up until the little ghost by told us. So there still no reason to believe him.

Besides, why would he tell you about destroy at all? Why not let you accidentally stumble into it?

[Ageless Face]

llbountyhunter wrote...


They choices scene is not real. its a mental battle between shepard and harbinger (I'm my view) 

The end part is shepar and the reapers pushings there own sides on this. 

Shepard want destroy the reapers want control/synthesis. 

All shepard does is choose.

That's funny, cause my Shep wanted to save lives more than destroy the reapers. Does that mean my Shep is answering to the reapers becuase of it? No. It's just mean that my Shepard can learn to compromise. My Shep chose control. And it wasn't because the reapers wanted to. It's beucase SHE wanted to. And becuase I, as a player, wanted to.


And just for the record, I don't think the reapers will want anyone to control them. They destroyed TIM's sanctuary.

[dreamgazer]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...


In terms of the grand-scale theory, it's only a punishment if you pick it.  The amount of materials and work put into erecting the Crucible establishes how complex it is---nothing more, nothing less---which opens synthesis up as an opportunity.  The "reward" is being able to consider it as a feasibility and projected answer for humanity through the device's construction.

The game also makes The Illusive Man's objective the blue/Paragon option and Anderson's objective the red/Renegade option, so it's pretty obvious that they're throwing traditional paradigms out the window in this sequence---and, quite possibly, manipulating your perception of what you see.

What's the point giving us something to consider becuase we did a good job- if it will only result in Shepard's submission? Wouldn't be more smart to make the destroy option as the good one, then the catalyst will just mock the choice? 

And if they wanted to go full menipulative, woudn't they put TIM in destroy and Anderson in control? Just to make the menipulation more clear?

Here, I was writing out a reply to another of your comments, which applies:

HagarIshay wrote...

It's legitimate as any other ending. If the catalyst is lying, he is lying about them all. 

You're approaching a shift in the conversation that will take it far, far off-track. 

From my perception of a literal interpretation: no, the catalyst isn't lying, per se.  He's just not being forthright about the exact conditions in which they'll happen, and relying on implications.  Anything you pick will happen the way it's supposed to happen---destroy destroys, control controls, and synthesis synthesizes.  The parameters in which they happen, however, are not defined, and could end up better ... or a hell of a lot worse.  I'll leave it at that.

The catalyst wants the situation to feel neutral, yet immediate.  He doesn't want things to seem completely unhinged from reality, because Shepard will reject everything and just choose to destroy.  If it seems like a (mostly) nonpartisan playing field, Shepard might be inclined to choose the pacifistic options.  You can look at the benefits of control and synthesis all you want; I'll leave them out of the conversation.  The big thing to remember is: choosing either blue or green keeps the Reapers alive, and the catalyst---who is inextricably linked to the Reapers---wants that. 

Why give us synthesis to contemplate from a story standpoint? I'll rely on BSN's new favorite dismissive lingo: BECAUSE, ART!  Thinking about synthesis and its implications is thought-provoking.  That's a reward.