518 réponses à ce sujet

[Ageless Face]

Makrys wrote...

Like I said, something they thought of to throw in ME3. Most of the clues to the IT are in ME3 because that is when the effects really begin to kick in on Shepard. The weapon bobbing thing, I consider to be a result of a tired mind. A clue that Shepard is dizzy, struggling, weak mentally. Something IS going on in his mind, and its hard for him to focus. Thats all I take away from the weapon bob. It doesnt have to be present in Arrival for it to make sense.

And on that I can agree with you. I also think it was because if a tired mind. And at the endgame we needed to be shown in what condition Shepard was. 

My point is that it is not an evidance for the IT. There are a lot of other evidences, but this one is false.

[balance5050]

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


I wish I understood the way your mind works, then I would understand how that makes any sense.... Indoctrination is different for everyone and different indoc methods would yield different results....

You can't understand my mind. It's too subtle and amazing to a mear human to try and comprehend .

Harbinger did a direct contact with Shepard's mind. Wether it affected afterwards is unknown for now. But still while we played, there wasn't any weapon bobing. There should have been if Harby tried to take control of Shepard.

The effects of indoctrination is permanent.

http://masseffect.wi.../Indoctrination 

[nrcrane]

...or by the end or the 3 games Shepard was hit in the head too many times and is suffering from a concussion.

[Ageless Face]

balance5050 wrote...


The effects of indoctrination is permanent.

http://masseffect.wi.../Indoctrination 

So what do you want to say by this? That Shepard was fully indoctrinated at the endgame? Well, that's how I want for my game to end...

[balance5050]

HagarIshay wrote...

Makrys wrote...


You could also say the effects on Shepard were not strong enough until ME3. Hence when he starts hallucinating and dreaming about the child. So, the extreme mental effects did not take a toll on him until ME3.

The main thing about Arrival is that Shepard was in DIRECT contact with a Reaper Artifact. And throughout the lore, this almost definitely means that the subject will slowly be indoctrinated. We saw the same thing with TIM. The end is the Reaper's last chance to reel him in.

That is not important. I don't mean if the artifact actually indoc Shepard or not at the time. I mean that was a direct conact with the artifact and Harby tried to control Shepard. And there was NO weapon bobing.

Indoctrination is a process, obvously the weapon bob comes in at a later stage...

[KingZayd]

balance5050 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

It's strange because most of the "plot-holes" seem to be pointed clues for indoctrination.

As much as I would like IT to be true because it would mean the endings weren't as horrible as they were... there are large fundamental plot holes in ME3 that couldn't be clues for indoctrination.

ME3 has proved that BioWare is simply too inept to pull off something like that.

Like?

The reapers not utilizing the catalyst/citadel in their usual way and attacking the Citadel first, as an example. That's a huge plot hole that has nothing to do with Shepard directly.

The entire point of ME1 was to show why the reapers couldn't do that. Saren's entire purpose was to open up the citadel arm so that Sovereign could reach the presidium tower and let them through.

If the reapers show up we just close the Citadel arms as per usual and then they would be forced to destroy their own creation, which they obviously need.

Well clearly they don't NEED it, (unless you count the Starchild as something they need), but they did make it rather indestructible on the outside when closed up for some reason. 

Modifié par KingZayd, 08 juin 2012 - 07:13 .

[balance5050]

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


The effects of indoctrination is permanent.

http://masseffect.wi.../Indoctrination 

So what do you want to say by this? That Shepard was fully indoctrinated at the endgame? Well, that's how I want for my game to end...

That was just a reply to when you said this just now:

"Wether it affected afterwards is unknown for now."

EDIT: Also you're not ever fully indoctrinated until they talk you out of wanting to destroy the reapers.

Modifié par balance5050, 08 juin 2012 - 07:18 .

[balance5050]

KingZayd wrote...

Well clearly they don't NEED it, (unless you count the Starchild as something they need), but they did make it rather indestructible on the outside when closed up for some reason. 

They could need it for the next cycle. It is like the greatest trap ever. I doub't they want to use resources to make another (Some think that the crucible itself is a reaper trap.)

Modifié par balance5050, 08 juin 2012 - 07:16 .

[Ageless Face]

balance5050 wrote...


That was just a reply when you said this just now:

Wether it affected afterwards is unknown for now. 

Oh, OK. Sorry for the confusion.

So we know Shepard had indoctrinated effects. Then why didn't we see half of them? Where are the noises, or headaches, or Shepard starting to speak nonesence?

EDIT:

 
EDIT: Also you're not ever fully indoctrinated until they talk you out of wanting to destroy the reapers. 

LOL you just had to add it, didn't you? 

There could also be a trap in destroy, you know... You can only really get out of this mess by not choosing at all.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 08 juin 2012 - 07:23 .

[MaximizedAction]

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


That was just a reply when you said this just now:

Wether it affected afterwards is unknown for now. 

Oh, OK. Sorry for the confusion.

So we know Shepard had indoctrinated effects. Then why didn't we see half of them? Where are the noises, or headaches, or Shepard starting to speak nonesence?

We do hear noises and headaches: www.youtube.com/watch Listen closely!

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Why can't the weapon bob just be an indicator that Shepard is entering the final battle, and that he is just battle weary from having spent so much time (except for when he was dead) constantly fighting against the Reapers and their agents? Why does it have to mean anything at all?

IT has produced some lovely ideas and every now and then it's enough to make me take a second, more serious look at the Theory, but this isn't one of them. It seems like trying to find the slightest bit of 'evidence' for a fan theory.

[spirosz]

It could be IT or it could be the man's tired from all that **** he's been through. Either way, pretty cool find.

[GFOX7]

balance5050 wrote...

GFOX7 wrote...

Wow we're really getting desperate now.

Who's desperate? We're getting an announcement between July 12-15.

Yes we are. Your point?

I was referring to pointing out a very menial thing such as "weapon bob" as proof towards IT. I mean what's next?
"Wait! Shepard's nails were a different color in the last cutscene! It's indoctrination!!!" 

[KingZayd]

balance5050 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Well clearly they don't NEED it, (unless you count the Starchild as something they need), but they did make it rather indestructible on the outside when closed up for some reason. 

They could need it for the next cycle. It is like the greatest trap ever. I doub't they want to use resources to make another (Some think that the crucible itself is a reaper trap.)

Yeah it's definitely useful for them, but clearly they're capable of entering the Milky Way without it.

[balance5050]

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


That was just a reply when you said this just now:

Wether it affected afterwards is unknown for now. 

Oh, OK. Sorry for the confusion.

So we know Shepard had indoctrinated effects. Then why didn't we see half of them? Where are the noises, or headaches, or Shepard starting to speak nonesence?

Shepard hears footsteps in his cabin, certain areas of the ship DO have ultrasonic and infrasonic noise.

Most importantly the dreams, which we learn from the scientists on the derelict reaper is a HUGE indicator. In London your crewmates ask if you're ok because "you don't look so good"

And to be fair the final citadel scenes has pretty much all the effects described including headpains.

EDIT: They are trying to balance this all while attempting to indoctrinate THE PLAYER, the balance between real and dream is actually quite astonishing. Even in RL we don't know we're in a dream until we "wake up".

Modifié par balance5050, 08 juin 2012 - 07:29 .

[balance5050]

KingZayd wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Well clearly they don't NEED it, (unless you count the Starchild as something they need), but they did make it rather indestructible on the outside when closed up for some reason. 

They could need it for the next cycle. It is like the greatest trap ever. I doub't they want to use resources to make another (Some think that the crucible itself is a reaper trap.)

Yeah it's definitely useful for them, but clearly they're capable of entering the Milky Way without it.

You're right about that, I guess they don't NEED it but I think it's still valuable to them.

[balance5050]

GFOX7 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

GFOX7 wrote...

Wow we're really getting desperate now.

Who's desperate? We're getting an announcement between July 12-15.

Yes we are. Your point?

I was referring to pointing out a very menial thing such as "weapon bob" as proof towards IT. I mean what's next?
"Wait! Shepard's nails were a different color in the last cutscene! It's indoctrination!!!" 

Uhm... I play ARGs for fun, not because of desperation.

[SubAstris]

MaximizedAction wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


That was just a reply when you said this just now:

Wether it affected afterwards is unknown for now. 

Oh, OK. Sorry for the confusion.

So we know Shepard had indoctrinated effects. Then why didn't we see half of them? Where are the noises, or headaches, or Shepard starting to speak nonesence?

We do hear noises and headaches: www.youtube.com/watch Listen closely!

Do you honestly think that Shepard feels this because of indoctrination or the massive explosion that nearly killed him?

[Ageless Face]

MaximizedAction wrote...


We do hear noises and headaches: www.youtube.com/watch Listen closely!

We only hear those noises near the reapers and the dreams, no ? Why don't Shepard hear those noices just while s/he is walking in the streets of the citadel or at the Normandy? Indoctrination suppose to always be there in the backround.

And there are no headcaches that were mentioned.

[GFOX7]

balance5050 wrote...

GFOX7 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

GFOX7 wrote...

Wow we're really getting desperate now.

Who's desperate? We're getting an announcement between July 12-15.

Yes we are. Your point?

I was referring to pointing out a very menial thing such as "weapon bob" as proof towards IT. I mean what's next?
"Wait! Shepard's nails were a different color in the last cutscene! It's indoctrination!!!" 

Uhm... I play ARGs for fun, not because of desperation.

What?

You really have no idea what I'm talking about do you?

[MaximizedAction]

SubAstris wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


That was just a reply when you said this just now:

Wether it affected afterwards is unknown for now. 

Oh, OK. Sorry for the confusion.

So we know Shepard had indoctrinated effects. Then why didn't we see half of them? Where are the noises, or headaches, or Shepard starting to speak nonesence?

We do hear noises and headaches: www.youtube.com/watch Listen closely!

Do you honestly think that Shepard feels this because of indoctrination or the massive explosion that nearly killed him?

Of course the headache is not an unique indocator for indoc attemps. But the wispering voice is. No matter how much Shepard is knocked on the head, that deep voice is nothing Shepard has heard before.

[balance5050]

GFOX7 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

GFOX7 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

GFOX7 wrote...

Wow we're really getting desperate now.

Who's desperate? We're getting an announcement between July 12-15.

Yes we are. Your point?

I was referring to pointing out a very menial thing such as "weapon bob" as proof towards IT. I mean what's next?
"Wait! Shepard's nails were a different color in the last cutscene! It's indoctrination!!!" 

Uhm... I play ARGs for fun, not because of desperation.

What?

You really have no idea what I'm talking about do you?

Trust me, I hear of "desperate fans" more than I care to talk about. But this is an ARG, Actual Reality Game.....

[SubAstris]

MaximizedAction wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


That was just a reply when you said this just now:

Wether it affected afterwards is unknown for now. 

Oh, OK. Sorry for the confusion.

So we know Shepard had indoctrinated effects. Then why didn't we see half of them? Where are the noises, or headaches, or Shepard starting to speak nonesence?

We do hear noises and headaches: www.youtube.com/watch Listen closely!

Do you honestly think that Shepard feels this because of indoctrination or the massive explosion that nearly killed him?

Of course the headache is not an unique indocator for indoc attemps. But the wispering voice is. No matter how much Shepard is knocked on the head, that deep voice is nothing Shepard has heard before.

To be honest, we don't always see him hit like that anyway. The voices could be anything potentially, esp as sound of Anderson is distorted

[Ageless Face]

balance5050 wrote...


Shepard hears footsteps in his cabin, certain areas of the ship DO have ultrasonic and infrasonic noise.

Most importantly the dreams, which we learn from the scientists on the derelict reaper is a HUGE indicator. In London your crewmates ask if you're ok because "you don't look so good"

And to be fair the final citadel scenes has pretty much all the effects described including headpains.

Footseteps?  Where and when? Any footseteps are not indoctrination noises. And the only noices I hear in the rest of the Normandy is of the crew and their use of their terminals or something. Using the tech stuff on the ship.

you know, people tend to have bad dreams when they are in stress. In ME1, Shepard is can remark for Liara s/he had bad bad dreams. 

And of course Shepard doesn't look good. From the same reason the squad themselves don't look good (or not sounding good, at least). They know the end battle is about to come. And besides, Shepard is seeing Earth again, after raging about it for the hole game (didn't had a problem about it myself though, don't get me wrong).

And the final citadel scene had TIM control you. He didn't do it through indoctrination.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 08 juin 2012 - 07:37 .

[llbountyhunter]

GFOX7 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

GFOX7 wrote...

Wow we're really getting desperate now.

Who's desperate? We're getting an announcement between July 12-15.

Yes we are. Your point?

I was referring to pointing out a very menial thing such as "weapon bob" as proof towards IT. I mean what's next?
"Wait! Shepard's nails were a different color in the last cutscene! It's indoctrination!!!" 

There is a differene between simple nail change and a complete loss of apparent reality.