38 réponses à ce sujet

[MrStoob]

...and he seemed like the nice one in ME2 lol.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I like him. Yes it was pretty crappy of the quarians to go "it thinks it has a soul, quick kill it!" But I don't blame them for trying to take back their homeworld once they had the technology that gave them the chance. In 300 years they hadn't made peace and there was nothing to indicate that the geth wanted peace (considering they attacked the Citadel).

[Abraham_uk]

Before you read on I want you to know that

The Genophage arc and the Geth/Quarian arc were my favourite moments of Mass Effect 3.

Complex moral and political choices. Past decisions in ME 1, 2 and what you've done during the arc actually mattered. And we recieved satisifying conclusions. Well done Bioware (and I actually mean it).




Han'Gerrel is a jerk who has Quarian interests at heart.

He means well. He is trying to save his own people. Goes the wrong way about it.

But you're right.

Some self righteous alien enters the Quarian fleet and says "this is how things are going to be done".

If an alien on Battlestar Galactica docked with the fleet and started telling the humans "you need to make peace with the cylons" they'd be thrown out of space dock.

Fracking alien telling us, a people who were almost exterminated to make peace with some fracking toasters!


Shepard is seen as a pest. Before the Geth/Quarian peace at the end of the story arc, he is the guy who got into bed with a geth and is now possibly ruining the Quarians chance of reclaiming their home world.

Of course Han'Gerrel is going to act like a jerk. So would we in the given situation. Oh look Shepard has now freed some Geth Primes from the Reapers. More enemeis to fight yay!

And Shepard has the audicaty to gut punch me? Snoobish, alien supremacist interfeering in affaires that don't concern them.

[dublin omega 223]

I liked his character overall, better then Daro Xen anyway.

[Abraham_uk]

Admiral Xen was annoying but on the plus side she didn't almost kill me and my squad.

Admiral Xen also designed the Arc Pistol.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 08 juin 2012 - 08:11 .

[gearseffect]

I think the thing with Koris and Gerrel switching around in terms of who's more liked. Is in ME2 we meet the very first non hostel Geth Legion. When I first played ME2 I did Tali's LM before I even thought about setting foot on the derelict Reaper.

So when I went to the Migrant Fleet for the first time and met the Admirals, my option was this,Daro'Xen didn't like her she was a bit of a loon I thought. It didn't help that Tali was right there sort of showing me her opinions of each Admiral and it had a huge effect on my opinions of them. Auntie Raan I loved.

Han'Gerrel I thought was really cool, he seemed like a good dude and knew Tali's dad. Zaal'Koris I hated he was a jerk I thought and the biggest @sshole of the bunch. In the end I told the Quairans to go to War with the Geth because everything I knew of the Geth told me they were all hostel.

However upon activating Legion and getting to know it I discovered that wasn't the case. On my next and every other ME2 playthrough I brought Legion along on Tali's LM, and discovered I was wrong about Han'Gerrel and Zaal'Koris.

Han'Gerrel was a warmongering aging warhorse much like Tali's dad. Zaal'Koris was a smart civil man whom I had been completely wrong about. Daro'Xen was a mad-scientist nutcase.

And Raan was still pretty cool. Reeger was also still awesome and seemed to be in favor of not having a war with the Geth so I'd been hoping he'd become a supporter of Koris inbetween ME2 & ME3, same with Tali once she went back to the fleet. Also had kinda figured Raan would back Tali whatever way she wanted to go. Of course I didn't think Tali would become an Admiral given she can be exiled and all the other things that can be an outcome of her LM.

So Pre-ME3 I already liked Zaal'Koris and didn't like Han'Gerrel. They were always polar opposites. One was gonna be liked and share a view that the Player has either go to War or Peace each one represented one of those choices and depending on what the Player likes wants is the one that they'll be drawn to.

When ME3 came out and I met the Admirals again, Zaal'Koris and Han'Gerrel were still the same people they were in ME2. So was Xen.

Raan lost much of my respect. She could have voted with Tali and Koris and the whole mess would have been avoided, she didn't.

Worse for Raan is from what I hear is if Tali dead in ME Raan takes her place and votes for whatever Tali would have, or what you told the Quarians to do in ME2 after Tali's LM.

And everything I saw of Raan in ME3 seemed to point to a character who would have been more likely to go for the peace vote than war route. What I saw of Raan and Gerrel's interactions in ME3 and how their relationship seemed to me, was it felt much like an abusive husband and wife.

Raan was constantly caving and giving in to Gerrel and if she wasn't it was because I (my Shep) stepped in and intervened taking Raan's side. It was like Raan didn't like what Gerrel was doing and when she tried to speak up Gerrel shut her down. She'd then cave and go along with Han'Gerrel or let Han go about doing what he wanted.

It reminded me of an abusive husband and wife. Gerrel being the abusive husband and Raan knows it's not right and don't like it, yet she never gets away, never leaves or changes, because she's been beaten so much she thinks god knows what.

Raan lost much of my respect in ME3 because of that. Gerrel showed that he was an even bigger @sshole then I'd ever thought he was. I mean he was one trigger happy warmongering loon that made me uneasy being around him.

The main reason I saved Koris and not his crew had less to do with the fact that he was an Admiral in charge of the civilian fleets and loosing him Xen seemed to think would end up with the civilian ships leaving. It had less to do with that and more to do with Koris threw his ship at that giant gun defended the fleet and Gerrel was up there refusing to pull back and just being a Warmongering jerk. Gerrel kept calling Koris a coward, sniveling twit, and all sorts of other insults same with Xen, and I wanted to bing back Koris alive because he was anything but a coward he had a pair to stand up for what he felt was right and he was willing to throw his life away not for a cause he didn't want but for the well being of the Quarian People. Bringing Koris back alive was sort of my rubbing it in Gerrel's face that Koris was a better man than Gerrel would ever be. If it had been Gerrel I would have let him die.

Sorry for that long @ssed thing. Hope you all enjoy it and all.

[comrade gando]

I liked him for the role he played (my shepard certainly didn't lol). He was the ignorant reckless commander that would have gotten himself and and his entire species wiped out if shepard didn't beat some sense into him (literally).

[CHALET]

How do you dislike Simon Templeman?

[MegaBadExample]

No, he's an idiot.

[seireikhaan]

MegaBadExample wrote...

No, he's an idiot.

Thank you so much for your deep and thought-provoking analysis.

@Abraham_uk - How fascinating, someone else evaluating character actions within the frame of said character's existence as opposed to armchair moralizing from a comfortable la-z-boy. 

@gearseffect - That's an interesting comparison with Raan and Gerrel.  It's not entirely inaccurate.  Raan did get oddly passive when things got to crunch time.  They didn't do nearly as good of a job with her as they did with the rest of the admiralty board in showing her motives.  She was obviously intended to be the 'on the fence' admiral, but she ended up basically with no real clear motivation.  And I fully agree that Gerrel was a jerk- however, I don't feel like you can deny that he was acting entirely in the best interests of the fleet(from his position).  I feel like I've already explained why he would want to go to war in the first place, so I'll skip to Rannoch specifically.

I assume you're familiar with the idea of tunnel vision?  Again, consider it from Gerrel's position, particularly at around the point Shepard enters the fray.  The flotilla swept the Geth from every other system.   They only had one planet left- his home.  And just as they were ready to reclaim it, a reaper signal ramps the geth up to 11.  Just imagine the feeling of being that close to something you've dedicated your entire life to.  He can't just give up when he's so close.  It's just within his grasp!  His home's right there!  He needs to reach just a bit farther!  If he'd just given up the attack at Shepard's first word, the whole arc would've been entirely lame, and Shepard would've basically become even more of a mary sue than (s)he already is.

Modifié par seireikhaan, 09 juin 2012 - 04:32 .

[Abraham_uk]

The big trouble with the Admiralty board is that it was far too cramed in Mass Effect 2 for me to fully comprehend the characters.

In Mass Effect 3 we aren't bombarded with characters and movitations in quite the same way. The Quarian/Geth arc happens over 4 missions. You have people on the Normandy who you can talk to about it. You have heated discussions where you feel like you're in control.

I've played through Mass Effect 2 four times and I still get confused over what on Earth was going on with Tali's trial. Yes I know that she has been accused of being a traitor. Yes I know that Tali has a complicated history with her father. Yes I know that her father's actions would have made Tali an exile.

This is one of the reasons why I prefered the Krogan story arc. The Krogan were wronged by the Salarians and Turians. They were used and they were stereilsed. They have become violent and aggressive and have destroyed their own society. Their clans have turned on one another. Everything I needed to know about the Krogans and their situation was spelled out to me. Delivered on a plate. Eve's perspective provided further enlightenment, showing that the Krogan played a big part in their own demise.

In Mass Effect 2, I didn't feel like I was in control till the end of Tali's mission where I could choose whether or not to inform the Admiralty Board. The thing is, the Admiralty Board is the most interesting established part of the Quarian situation. Here are a bunch of complicated individuals who obviously don't get along. They can't agree on how to resolve the Geth/Quarian problem. The Geth as bizzare as it sounds were a lot easier to understand. Unlike the Quarians, they always reached a Consensus.
 
In Mass Effect 3 I got a better understanding into how the morning war started. I finally understood Admiral Koris and Admiral Han'Gerrel. I understood how Tali had grown from a racist jerk to someone who had some actual insight into the people she once hated. Finally I had some idea what on Earth was going on. It is because of Mass Effect 3 actually explaining, stuff in bite size chunks that I could finally appreciate the situation for all it's complexity.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 09 juin 2012 - 06:15 .

[Abraham_uk]

Mass Effect 3 fully explained and resolved both Krogan and Quarian story arcs.

Both arcs were handled very well with sensitivity and clever plot writing.
Each and very scene was packed with emotion and a sense of both hope and dread.
The character were not only well developed but actually explained everything you needed to know properly.
Mass Effect 2's approach was crammed and a complete mess. I only understood a little bit of what there was to know from both arcs.
Mass Effect 3 actually made it clear.


So my views of the Admiralty board come from talking to the Admirals in Mass Effect 3.
You know what? I can actually sympathise with all of them.
Though I did punch Admiral Han'Gerrel in the gut. He almsot killed me. It would have aggrivated me in real life had that happened.

[DirtySHISN0]

The admiralty board are basically the 5 representations of the Quarian character.
Xen curious
Koris cautious
Gerrel ambitious
Raan ambivalent
and Tali loyal

If you combine them together you essentially have a rational person.
Each time you take one out of the mix they make stupid decisions
Example they fire on shepard when Tali isn't there to influence them with loyalty and they attack when koris isn't there to stop them.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 09 juin 2012 - 07:28 .

[justafan]

While I am pissed at Gerrel for doing it, even firing on the dreadnought while you are on it makes a certain amount of sense.

The Dreadnought was the source of the reaper code (as far as they knew) so destroying it would have allowed them to use their countermeasures and turn the tide heavily in their favor. Furthermore, every time you were dodging that shield destroying electric wave, a shot was being taken at Quarian ships by the main gun, likely causing countless casualties. Also, no one could know how long it would take for the geth to overcome whatever Legion did.

With that in mind, the decision to take the dreadnought out at the first possible chance would be worth the loss of an admiral (or exile) and a couple aliens, since as far as he knew, the ships destruction could end the war.


From the outside, I can almost appreciate his intentions.  He truly thinks the best route for the Quarian people is to destroy the Geth and retake Ranoch.  All the evidence points to this considering only the Normandy crew really knows there are peaceful Geth.  The reason I don't like him though is that he is just so stubborn about it.  He refuses to back down when the war has obviously gotten out of hand and this almost costs the Quarians their species.  Luckily, he can be made to see reason if the other admirals gang up on him.

Modifié par justafan, 09 juin 2012 - 08:00 .