ElitePinecone wrote...
Fast Jimmy wrote...
snip
No need to be snarky. 
And yes, I'm serious. What's the point in persistent gameworlds if the writers don't think ahead? I'd hope they planned at least a rough guide of where major plot points are headed at the series-level (*not* every decision, because that's impossible), rather than being trapped in a corner and having to resort to hand-waving or convenient substitution.
Why could Leliana do that thing she does in the Sacred Ashes quest if she was turning up in DA2 as a major character, central to the continuing storyline? Are we meant to conclude that it was only decided afterwards that she was important as a functionary to the Divine, and she'd be present, player actions be damned?
Why could Anders possibly have that thing happen in Awakening if he was going to be a companion (and, arguably, one of the most important characters) in DA2? He only sparks what we've been consistently told is the most important event in Thedas' history, and Awakening was released when DA2 was apparently well underway.
I'd question the point of save file-transfer when developers seem to love giving huge, setting-altering choices that are enormously difficult (and expensive) to provide payoff for in later games. I'm fine with cameos, dialogue references and small investments of resources (it was immensely satisfying and charming when Conrad Verner was linked to a handful of tiny ME sidequests) - but resurrecting characters because they were killed off before the writers realised they needed them, or negating a player's decision through sheer creative fiat makes me pretty cynical.
A dev or three have said that a resolution to Morrigan and the OGB in The Next Thing was a significant thing that fans asked for in the May 'discussion and exploration' blog, or whatever it was (for the record, moar inter-Thedas politics pl0x).
Okay, fine. Does that necessitate making OGB canon, because fans asked for it in large enough numbers and with enough vehemence, and because it'd be difficult to do it justice unless it entered the main storyline? How do we handwave that Morrigan performed the ritual without the Warden or any of the other existing Grey Wardens, if players chose that? How do we explain any of the sacrifice endings, which (clearly) couldn't have happened if Morrigan stealthily did the ritual? Wouldn't a canon OGB completely devalue the sacrifice of the Warden (or other characters), especially if the player chose that option *specifically* to prevent Morrigan's performing of the ritual?
I'm just... not convinced that it could be done without an enormous suspension of disbelief. It feels like deference to fans for the sake of it, and I'd question the point of making any decisions at all if developers are willing to overturn them for convenience's sake.
You are confusing two terms here. Railroading and making canon.
For The Next Big Thing to look at your DA:O save file, see that you made the US, did not perform the DR and then use that flag to prompt dialogue that says "Yes, the Warden refused Morrigan's offer, but in the end her back up plan was Blah Blah Blah and the OGB is still here anyway!" This is railroading. The game would detect the choice, and then have dialogue or content that basically says "Yeah, we see you did this, but HANDWAVE!"
When you make something canon, you state that an event happened. In this example, the event that the Warden performed the DR is canon. There would be no handwaving, no side stepping, no tap dancing of story to explain why a Warden who did the US would still have a world wiht the OGB... the choice is canonized. The Hero of Ferelden survived because they agreed to a blood-magic ceremony to save their life. Period.
Railroading, where the game sees your choices and says "well, we see what you did here, but it doesn't really fit in with our ideas, so we're going to make it like it didn't happen anyway with this pitiful excuse" is weak. However, if DA3 imported no choices whatsoever and decided what events happened, what characters survived and what endings were true, THAT is establishing canon. Its law. Its truth. It is The Story of What Really Happened.
With choices being imported, game after game, these choices will continue to be diminished and have no impact. In addition, things will be retconned and railroaded anyway (as seen by Leliana and Anders, to point out a few... and that's JUST the sequel, one game). If it is already this hard to manage choices and what the player can do, how much worse will it be in trying to make the sequel to DA3? Or DA4?
Let's say in DA3 we get to choose a side in the Mage/Templar War. Your side wins, by your courageous and hard work. How will that be handled in DA4? How can you make a game where mages could be free and roam around the world in one game, but be locked in a tower in another game... and have it still be the same game?
They don't have an overall story fleshed out. Its not the case. Delude yourself if you want to, the reality is that ME3 is a perfect example of how these things work. They were working on re-writing the ending, the whole pinacle of a trilogy, right up until November of last year, less than 3 months before the game went Gold (industry speak for nothing more is done for it while it is being manufactured and distributed) and less than four months before it was released. They were still working on what the Reapers were and how Shepherd was going to stop (or not stop) them. Less than 90 days before the game was out of their hands, they were doing script rewrites! Scripts that would require cutscenes, and character models, and recorded lines of texts, not to mention possibly combat or level design to account for...
I am not saying that DA is ME. But the DA series is even LESS focused in its purpose than ME. There is no over-arching threat right now, no clearly defined enemy. ME had that from game one - the Repears had eradicated all life in the galaxy and had to be stopped... and they didn't even know why until weeks before the final game in the trilogy was released!
If you are expecting better or more from the DA guys, then I'm sorry, its just not possible. Writers can have the best, most detailed idea for a story in the world and it could get completely scrapped because it involves having Dwarven females and resources can't be found to create them. Or it involves going to Nevara, which isn't in the location developement budget. Or it turns out the whole series is scrapped anyway.
Video game design has all the headaches of software releases, all the expected action/animation of a big budget movie and can have its plot dictated on whim like a TV series. I don't envy anyone the task of trying to make all the pieces fit together. But accounting and acknowledging plot choice for every game in the series from now to eternity will only result in there being no choices offered, since they are so expensive to manage.
If they offer us a ton of choices, but establish a canon (not a RAILROAD of previous choices, but a true CANON) and get rid of import flags, they will be able to tell a real story while at the same time giving us a lot of choices about how we want that story to play out. Granted, our control over the story spanning ALL the games would be somewhat diminished... but in the end it is going to be diminished anyway. So I say we go with the option that lets us play better games, rather than sacrifice game quality to account for imaginary games in the future.
Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 09 juin 2012 - 04:31 .
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didn't make Allistair king or C) have Anora marry Allistair. But it would be a cool story possibly. One that could NEVER be told as long as Bioware has their hands tied trying to respect the choices of everyone's different playthrough choices.
