233 réponses à ce sujet

[WhiteKnyght]

General User wrote...

Given everything the Catalyst has done, you should approach everything it says with an attitude a deepest suspicion.

And, if you choose to completely disregard part or all of what it says, doing so would not be unreasonable.

Garrus became a glorified serial killer on Omega. His reason for going there to do it was because there were no rules and laws to get in his way, when he's condemning others who operate there for the same exact reason. Then plots to murder his former ally in a place that DOES have laws, that he has no regard for anymore.

Liara became a glorified organized criminal after ME1. Stalking people and selling information to the highest bidder, and intimidating anyone who tried to get in her way(flaying someone alive isn't nice) and got so obsessed with hunting down and murdering the Shadow Broker that she completely disregarded Shepard's well being at one point. And when she does get him, what does she do? She takes over his resources and goes back to business as usual. Still invading privacy and selling secrets, except now she has more to devote to you when the Reapers come.

Miranda, despite her charms, is the second in command to the Illusive Man. every horrible thing Cerberus did, she knew about completely and didn't give a damn, until TIM wanted to mess around with Reaper tech, which was apparently too dangerous/dirty for her.

Jacob Taylor is revealed by one of the guards in the Normandy in ME3 to have been a Cat 6 discharge after Eden Prime. Mr. Taylor lied to you about leaving the Alliance because of the BS. He was kicked out for having a mental breakdown.

Mordin's whole story stems from the fact that he's responsible for the in-utero deaths of billions of Krogan. 1 billion females on Tuchanka, 1000 eggs in a clutch, 1 in 1000 brith rate, and it was about ten years or so since he did it. You do the math. That's 9,999,999 baby Krogan's per year.

Samara may claim to be a holy warrior, but in reality she'll kill anyone over the slightest indiscretion. Maybe even children if she believed they had violated her code.

Thane was a hitman for several years.

Zaeed is like Thane, except he's more direct.

Kasumi's thieving ways go without saying.

Jack is a serial killer too. She even admits she gets warm feelings when she kills.

Legion talks up the Geth and condemns the Heretics, but when their back was against the wall, they said yes to the reapers faster than you can say Creator.

Tali is a bigot for 90% of Mass Effect.

The point of this long statement of the obvious is that Shepard trusts and allows each of these people to trust him when there is every reason not to. So why not the Star Child? Shepard's the first organic person to make it to his home and meet him, is it so unbelievable that he might be impressed by you and be willing to listen?

[Vigilant111]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

General User wrote...

Given everything the Catalyst has done, you should approach everything it says with an attitude a deepest suspicion.

And, if you choose to completely disregard part or all of what it says, doing so would not be unreasonable.

Garrus became a glorified serial killer on Omega. His reason for going there to do it was because there were no rules and laws to get in his way, when he's condemning others who operate there for the same exact reason. Then plots to murder his former ally in a place that DOES have laws, that he has no regard for anymore.

Liara became a glorified organized criminal after ME1. Stalking people and selling information to the highest bidder, and intimidating anyone who tried to get in her way(flaying someone alive isn't nice) and got so obsessed with hunting down and murdering the Shadow Broker that she completely disregarded Shepard's well being at one point. And when she does get him, what does she do? She takes over his resources and goes back to business as usual. Still invading privacy and selling secrets, except now she has more to devote to you when the Reapers come.

Miranda, despite her charms, is the second in command to the Illusive Man. every horrible thing Cerberus did, she knew about completely and didn't give a damn, until TIM wanted to mess around with Reaper tech, which was apparently too dangerous/dirty for her.

Jacob Taylor is revealed by one of the guards in the Normandy in ME3 to have been a Cat 6 discharge after Eden Prime. Mr. Taylor lied to you about leaving the Alliance because of the BS. He was kicked out for having a mental breakdown.

Mordin's whole story stems from the fact that he's responsible for the in-utero deaths of billions of Krogan. 1 billion females on Tuchanka, 1000 eggs in a clutch, 1 in 1000 brith rate, and it was about ten years or so since he did it. You do the math. That's 9,999,999 baby Krogan's per year.

Samara may claim to be a holy warrior, but in reality she'll kill anyone over the slightest indiscretion. Maybe even children if she believed they had violated her code.

Thane was a hitman for several years.

Zaeed is like Thane, except he's more direct.

Kasumi's thieving ways go without saying.

Jack is a serial killer too. She even admits she gets warm feelings when she kills.

Legion talks up the Geth and condemns the Heretics, but when their back was against the wall, they said yes to the reapers faster than you can say Creator.

Tali is a bigot for 90% of Mass Effect.

The point of this long statement of the obvious is that Shepard trusts and allows each of these people to trust him when there is every reason not to. So why not the Star Child? Shepard's the first organic person to make it to his home and meet him, is it so unbelievable that he might be impressed by you and be willing to listen?

The Catalyst is NOT a person, if u are asking me to choose where to place my trust, I would place it on my allies, rather than something that is unknown to me

Modifié par Vigilant111, 09 juin 2012 - 07:17 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Vigilant111 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

General User wrote...

Given everything the Catalyst has done, you should approach everything it says with an attitude a deepest suspicion.

And, if you choose to completely disregard part or all of what it says, doing so would not be unreasonable.

Garrus became a glorified serial killer on Omega. His reason for going there to do it was because there were no rules and laws to get in his way, when he's condemning others who operate there for the same exact reason. Then plots to murder his former ally in a place that DOES have laws, that he has no regard for anymore.

Liara became a glorified organized criminal after ME1. Stalking people and selling information to the highest bidder, and intimidating anyone who tried to get in her way(flaying someone alive isn't nice) and got so obsessed with hunting down and murdering the Shadow Broker that she completely disregarded Shepard's well being at one point. And when she does get him, what does she do? She takes over his resources and goes back to business as usual. Still invading privacy and selling secrets, except now she has more to devote to you when the Reapers come.

Miranda, despite her charms, is the second in command to the Illusive Man. every horrible thing Cerberus did, she knew about completely and didn't give a damn, until TIM wanted to mess around with Reaper tech, which was apparently too dangerous/dirty for her.

Jacob Taylor is revealed by one of the guards in the Normandy in ME3 to have been a Cat 6 discharge after Eden Prime. Mr. Taylor lied to you about leaving the Alliance because of the BS. He was kicked out for having a mental breakdown.

Mordin's whole story stems from the fact that he's responsible for the in-utero deaths of billions of Krogan. 1 billion females on Tuchanka, 1000 eggs in a clutch, 1 in 1000 brith rate, and it was about ten years or so since he did it. You do the math. That's 9,999,999 baby Krogan's per year.

Samara may claim to be a holy warrior, but in reality she'll kill anyone over the slightest indiscretion. Maybe even children if she believed they had violated her code.

Thane was a hitman for several years.

Zaeed is like Thane, except he's more direct.

Kasumi's thieving ways go without saying.

Jack is a serial killer too. She even admits she gets warm feelings when she kills.

Legion talks up the Geth and condemns the Heretics, but when their back was against the wall, they said yes to the reapers faster than you can say Creator.

Tali is a bigot for 90% of Mass Effect.

The point of this long statement of the obvious is that Shepard trusts and allows each of these people to trust him when there is every reason not to. So why not the Star Child? Shepard's the first organic person to make it to his home and meet him, is it so unbelievable that he might be impressed by you and be willing to listen?

The Catalyst is NOT a person, if u are asking me to choose where to place my trust, I would place it on my allies, rather than something that is unknown to me

Look up the description for Planet Klencory. It gives you a pretty good hint at what Starboy really is.

Also Legion isn't a person either. The Geth are code, a simulation of life. No more alive than the video game you're playing.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 09 juin 2012 - 07:30 .

[Vigilant111]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Look up the description for Planet Klencory. It gives you a pretty good hint at what Starboy really is.

Also Legion isn't a person either. The Geth are code, a simulation of life. No more alive than the video game you're playing.

Futile way to say:"hey guys, its not that u haven't met the Catalyst before, u just didn't pay enough attention to the story..." and how exactly is killing organics "protecting" them? one could argue that we should kill all reapers to "protect" what very little sympathy we have for them, if there is any

Oh? so you are saying cos synthetics are not alive, therefore we should trust them? are u negating the fact that they are sentient?

Modifié par Vigilant111, 09 juin 2012 - 07:55 .

[KingZayd]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

ardias89 wrote...

I actually think the Catalyst reveals its true intention when it says the part about making ways for new life. But it doesnt matter neither pro-enders or anti-enders know what to take as bad writing or truth. The moment we have to speculate and assume is the moment that ending failed.

Not true, plenty of things have endings which are open for interpretation.

The ending of an anime called Code Geass was a lot like that. You saw Lelouch be killed, but the last moment  before it cut out implied a lot and left people wondering. Rather than rant and b!tch about it, people speculated and apparently had fun doing so.

The ending of Tales of the Abyss, they didn't reveal whether it was Luke, Asch, or some amalgam of the two, leaving people to speculate.

That might be the reason so many people hate ME3's ending. It's almost anime-like in its approach. The fact that I'm an anime fan might be part of the reason I'm not b1tching like all of you. Context means a lot in any genre of anime. You ignore context and you're just left going "wtf."

I like anime, but the problem I have with the literal interpretation of the ME3 ending is the amount of plot holes introduced, particularly concerning the events in ME1.

I haven't watched much sci-fi anime though.. only Cowboy Bebop and Noein.

I saw no plot holes. Only an open conclusion to a game that was nothing but an ending. Cure or Sabotage, Quarians, Geth, or Peace, and Control, Destroy, or Merge are all drastically different outcomes for each scenario.

Leaving an ending open for player imagination is a stroke of genius. It's not Bioware's fault that players misunderstood the context behind it and jumped to the conclusion that the destruction of the relays blows up the galaxy no matter what, or that choosing anything but destroy is going to indoctrinate Shepard just because his half synthetic eyes glowed when they've done that more than once before.

It would have been worse if the game had ended with no reason for the Reaper's actions given. Preventing technological singularity from destroying all organic life is a geniune concern that had been in the galaxy for some time already. And the fact that the Reapers' master could realize there were more peaceful solutions than slaughter is a good way of showing that the Reapers aren't one dimensional villains. They can change too.

Also you should check out the Ghost in the Shell franchise. It's awesome.

Why does the Catalyst (of whom the Citadel is part of) need a reaper that it controls to stay behind and tell  it when the Harvest is ready [the organic races are on the Citadel (part of the Catalyst)], so that it can send a signal to the Keepers so that they can open the Citadel relay (part of the Catalyst)? How do the Protheans sneak onto the Citadel (part of the Catalyst) and change it without alerting the Catalyst? When the Citadel receives Sovereign's signal, and the keepers aren't activated, why doesn't it let Sovereign know what's going on? Why does Sovereign have to spend thousands of years figuring out by himself, and eventually using Saren to discover the truth. Why does the Citadel (part of the catalyst) have a master control console that organics can use? Why hasn't the Catalyst made the other reapers it controls who can enter the Milky Way using FTL drives, do so in all that time? 



And thanks for the recommendation. I'll certainly check it out.

[KingZayd]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

General User wrote...

Given everything the Catalyst has done, you should approach everything it says with an attitude a deepest suspicion.

And, if you choose to completely disregard part or all of what it says, doing so would not be unreasonable.

Garrus became a glorified serial killer on Omega. His reason for going there to do it was because there were no rules and laws to get in his way, when he's condemning others who operate there for the same exact reason. Then plots to murder his former ally in a place that DOES have laws, that he has no regard for anymore.

Liara became a glorified organized criminal after ME1. Stalking people and selling information to the highest bidder, and intimidating anyone who tried to get in her way(flaying someone alive isn't nice) and got so obsessed with hunting down and murdering the Shadow Broker that she completely disregarded Shepard's well being at one point. And when she does get him, what does she do? She takes over his resources and goes back to business as usual. Still invading privacy and selling secrets, except now she has more to devote to you when the Reapers come.

Miranda, despite her charms, is the second in command to the Illusive Man. every horrible thing Cerberus did, she knew about completely and didn't give a damn, until TIM wanted to mess around with Reaper tech, which was apparently too dangerous/dirty for her.

Jacob Taylor is revealed by one of the guards in the Normandy in ME3 to have been a Cat 6 discharge after Eden Prime. Mr. Taylor lied to you about leaving the Alliance because of the BS. He was kicked out for having a mental breakdown.

Mordin's whole story stems from the fact that he's responsible for the in-utero deaths of billions of Krogan. 1 billion females on Tuchanka, 1000 eggs in a clutch, 1 in 1000 brith rate, and it was about ten years or so since he did it. You do the math. That's 9,999,999 baby Krogan's per year.

Samara may claim to be a holy warrior, but in reality she'll kill anyone over the slightest indiscretion. Maybe even children if she believed they had violated her code.

Thane was a hitman for several years.

Zaeed is like Thane, except he's more direct.

Kasumi's thieving ways go without saying.

Jack is a serial killer too. She even admits she gets warm feelings when she kills.

Legion talks up the Geth and condemns the Heretics, but when their back was against the wall, they said yes to the reapers faster than you can say Creator.

Tali is a bigot for 90% of Mass Effect.

The point of this long statement of the obvious is that Shepard trusts and allows each of these people to trust him when there is every reason not to. So why not the Star Child? Shepard's the first organic person to make it to his home and meet him, is it so unbelievable that he might be impressed by you and be willing to listen?

They've also had many opportunities to prove their loyalty and worth, and they have done so.

The Starchild? You tell him that we'd rather be left alone and he says "No". 

[Erield]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Not true, plenty of things have endings which are open for interpretation.

That might be the reason so many people hate ME3's ending. It's almost anime-like in its approach. The fact that I'm an anime fan might be part of the reason I'm not b1tching like all of you. Context means a lot in any genre of anime. You ignore context and you're just left going "wtf."

One of the (many) problems I have with the endings is that you have no context.  You are asked to make a moral choice, with little or no information on what the results of that choice will entail.  The context we have for Control is TIM--he failed, became Indoctrinated, and then died.  The context we have for Synthesis is Saren--he failed, became Indoctrinated, and then died.  Destroy, well, that's more clear-cut--it's simple genocide and murder of close allies and squadmate to achieve.

The context we have for Relays exploding is from Arrival.  The Codex entry in ME3 says that rupturing the power source of a Relay results in a release of energy approximately equal to a sun going super-nova.  We clearly see the Relays exploding in Synthesis and Destroy; the context we have for that would imply that each system with a Relay gets wiped out from the energy discharge.

I could go on, and on, and on, but I've hit the major themes, I think.  An open ending can be fine, and good, and done well.  I'm willing to put a lot of work into being receptive to a story.  I love stories, in all shapes, flavors, and varieties.  I love boring stories, and exciting stories; horror stories and love stories.  I love stories with happy endings, stories with sad endings, and even stories with no ending at all.  I'm the guy who'll sit all day and listen to the random mutterings of the crazy guy on the bus, the drunk at the bar, or the retired vet at the VA.

The only kind of story that pisses me off is one that's told badly, and then gets angry or defensive when I call them on it.  ME3's ending is bad.  There are other elements that are equally bad (Crucible...so much bad.)  There are also parts that are as good as anything I've ever experienced (Rannoch and Tuchanka) and some that are just good (Thessia, Grissom Station, Ardat Yakshi monastary.) 

There's a lot of potential good in ME3, but the endings....no.  Just...so much terrible.

[General User]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

General User wrote...

Given everything the Catalyst has done, you should approach everything it says with an attitude a deepest suspicion.

And, if you choose to completely disregard part or all of what it says, doing so would not be unreasonable.

Garrus became a glorified serial killer on Omega. His reason for going there to do it was because there were no rules and laws to get in his way, when he's condemning others who operate there for the same exact reason. Then plots to murder his former ally in a place that DOES have laws, that he has no regard for anymore.

Liara became a glorified organized criminal after ME1. Stalking people and selling information to the highest bidder, and intimidating anyone who tried to get in her way(flaying someone alive isn't nice) and got so obsessed with hunting down and murdering the Shadow Broker that she completely disregarded Shepard's well being at one point. And when she does get him, what does she do? She takes over his resources and goes back to business as usual. Still invading privacy and selling secrets, except now she has more to devote to you when the Reapers come.

Miranda, despite her charms, is the second in command to the Illusive Man. every horrible thing Cerberus did, she knew about completely and didn't give a damn, until TIM wanted to mess around with Reaper tech, which was apparently too dangerous/dirty for her.

Jacob Taylor is revealed by one of the guards in the Normandy in ME3 to have been a Cat 6 discharge after Eden Prime. Mr. Taylor lied to you about leaving the Alliance because of the BS. He was kicked out for having a mental breakdown.

Mordin's whole story stems from the fact that he's responsible for the in-utero deaths of billions of Krogan. 1 billion females on Tuchanka, 1000 eggs in a clutch, 1 in 1000 brith rate, and it was about ten years or so since he did it. You do the math. That's 9,999,999 baby Krogan's per year.

Samara may claim to be a holy warrior, but in reality she'll kill anyone over the slightest indiscretion. Maybe even children if she believed they had violated her code.

Thane was a hitman for several years.

Zaeed is like Thane, except he's more direct.

Kasumi's thieving ways go without saying.

Jack is a serial killer too. She even admits she gets warm feelings when she kills.

Legion talks up the Geth and condemns the Heretics, but when their back was against the wall, they said yes to the reapers faster than you can say Creator.

Tali is a bigot for 90% of Mass Effect.

Rather than parse through your mischaracterizations and inaccuracies, I'll just say this: Your ME2 crew was a bunch of goofy weirdos with daddy-issues.  If you weren't suspicious of them, you were playing the game wrong.

The Grey Nayr wrote...
The point of this long statement of the obvious is that Shepard trusts and allows each of these people to trust him when there is every reason not to. So why not the Star Child? Shepard's the first organic person to make it to his home and meet him, is it so unbelievable that he might be impressed by you and be willing to listen?

The Catalyst wants to talk?  Fine.  It can order it's Fleet to standown.  I'll request the same of Admiral Hackett.  Then we can talk.

Modifié par General User, 09 juin 2012 - 11:58 .

[LiarasShield]

well I didn't see a really a ending what I saw from my perspective is shepard giving into the person whos been controling the reapers to destroy earth and the galaxy and is still killing your forces while you have this conversation with him and ultimately after picking his said three choices what ultimately helps any I mean most of earth and the galaxy is pretty much destroyed that doesn't change the fact that our planet is in ruins and our forces may be trapt and either starve to death or end up killing each other till no one is left just him controling the reapers is a major turn off

let alone the reprecussions of any choice that you pick but since you are forced into these three options against your will it is pretty much the illusion of choice


Still character performance and decisions that mattered at the collector base I wish they would've mattered here