233 réponses à ce sujet

[Redbelle]

Has no one else read the Enterprise owner's manual?.................Ok, yes, bit of geek but it's a great read in certain aspects. It refers to Bussard Ramscoops. Essentially fuel picker uppers. Not great for short hops but great at extending the range of long range flights.

Also, I think I'm right in saying that once you switch on the engines you accelerate and continue to accelerate. With nothing to counter force the kinetic energy of the ship you just keep getting faster and faster till you either hit light speed or your fuel runs out and you continue on at that speed forever. Point on lightspeed. Lightspeed as a speed to travel at is rubbish. You can not see where you are going as moving at the same speed as the particles of light that inform our eye's of where things are means you are effectively blind. You either have to have precisely measured the distance between where you are and where you want to go and account for anything that might be there when you get there. After all, look into space and you are viewing light from stars that shined millions or years ago. I'm probably wrong on the number of years in some way shape and form but you get the point.

lastly, A clip from ME2 to explain space battle physics.

Modifié par Redbelle, 08 juin 2012 - 06:36 .

[Redbelle]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Gas giants can be used for fuel, IF you construct dedicated orbital stations for this purpose.

Using a fuel station to refuel is rather different than sucking fuel out of a planet

If you have the fuel station on the ship...It would not be a problem.

...................


Why can't you see the problem with that? 

Transporting fuel requires more fuel. 

1. The fuel station is a refinary,
2. Contiued use of fuel to keep momentum is only a case with vichiles in heavier graivties....Space have little gravity so it won't be a problem out side of starting and stopping.

Think of it this way. The more mass you have the more energy you need to expend to get that mass moving. Or......... maybe not, dammit now you've got me trying to remember my physics.

Modifié par Redbelle, 08 juin 2012 - 06:38 .

[dreman9999]

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Gas giants can be used for fuel, IF you construct dedicated orbital stations for this purpose.

Using a fuel station to refuel is rather different than sucking fuel out of a planet

If you have the fuel station on the ship...It would not be a problem.

And when do you plan to arrive? in this century or in the next millennium?

Do you even know how close the sol system is tothe other home worlds? It would take at most a decade for everyone bu the quarians to get home. The krogan and the bartariaan would have the shortest time to get home because of how close the sol system is to their home worlds. Only the quarians whould have a long time to get home....50 years at the least.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The fuel station is a refinary,

Which requires fuel to transport. 

You also said nothing about it being a refinery, you implied it was a massive tanker.

2. Contiued use of fuel to keep momentum is only a case with vichiles in heavier graivties....Space have little gravity so it won't be a problem out side of starting and stopping.

Which shows me you don't understand what you're talking about.

Ships lock their destinations, accelerate to the midpoint, which requires the use constant fuel, and then decelerate to the end, which likewise takes constant fuel consumption.

The FTL effect is maintained by a constant use of fuel to reduce mass. Two problems arise. One, cutting the use of fuel causes the ship to decelerate to sublight speeds, which causes interstellar travel to become impossible. 
Two, this effect also causes lethel Cherenkov's radiation to be released, which would kill everyone on the ship. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 08 juin 2012 - 06:42 .

[dreman9999]

Redbelle wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Gas giants can be used for fuel, IF you construct dedicated orbital stations for this purpose.

Using a fuel station to refuel is rather different than sucking fuel out of a planet

If you have the fuel station on the ship...It would not be a problem.

...................


Why can't you see the problem with that? 

Transporting fuel requires more fuel. 

1. The fuel station is a refinary,
2. Contiued use of fuel to keep momentum is only a case with vichiles in heavier graivties....Space have little gravity so it won't be a problem out side of starting and stopping.

Think of it this way. The more mass you have the more energy you need to expend to get that mass moving.

I understand that. That just means you have a limit to how much mass a ship can carry with it. It doesn't mean it can't work. They need to balance mass with fuel.  That is not even improbable.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Gas giants can be used for fuel, IF you construct dedicated orbital stations for this purpose.

Using a fuel station to refuel is rather different than sucking fuel out of a planet

If you have the fuel station on the ship...It would not be a problem.

And when do you plan to arrive? in this century or in the next millennium?

Do you even know how close the sol system is tothe other home worlds? It would take at most a decade for everyone bu the quarians to get home. The krogan and the bartariaan would have the shortest time to get home because of how close the sol system is to their home worlds. Only the quarians whould have a long time to get home....50 years at the least.

All conjecture. 

There are other problems to solve.

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The fuel station is a refinary,

Which requires fuel to transport. 

You also said nothing about it being a refinery, you implied it was a massive tanker.

2. Contiued use of fuel to keep momentum is only a case with vichiles in heavier graivties....Space have little gravity so it won't be a problem out side of starting and stopping.

Which shows me you don't understand what you're talking about.

Ships lock their destinations, accelerate to the midpoint, which requires the use constant fuel, and then decelerate to the end, which likewise takes constant fuel consumption.

The FTL effect is maintained by a constant use of fuel to reduce mass. Two problems arise. One, accelerating to FTL then stopping the fuel input causes the ship to slow down to sub-light speeds, which makes interstellar travel impossible. Two, accelerating to FTL and then using the effect of momentum to conserve fuel, causes lethal Cherenkov's radiation to be released.

Do you even understand how mometum is space even works? You don't need to maintain mometum inspace because it's vastly low gravity. Only starting and stoping is an issue.

[mauro2222]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

All conjecture. 

There are other problems to solve.

He likes to ignore the last 3 pages.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...
Do you even understand how mometum is space even works? You don't need to maintain mometum inspace because it's vastly low gravity. Only starting and stoping is an issue.

It's nice to see you ignore everything I just said. 

I KNOW HOW F*CKING MOMENTUM WORKS. 

Using it as a means of travel is not possible for the two reasons I stated previously. Read them again. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 08 juin 2012 - 06:43 .

[Jostle]

In the novels, Saren states ominously that he is very patient. The same exact thing is said about TIM. It's clear that neither can touch the level of patience the Reapers have. A war of attrition gives them a massive advantage. Sovereign was a huge defeat for them. The technology, morale, and general readiness (though not as high as it should have been) that organics gained by its failure were great, and Reapers started to die because of it.

I think if you're going to presume things about the Catalyst, like that it was a shackled AI and didnt have access to these options until the Crucible docked, or that its control was blocked or that it realized the error of its ways, you cannot completely discount other speculations. We aren't given a whole lot to work with from the game itself.

Personally, I can't imagine that a being with the wherewithal and power to create and control the Reapers would have any trouble at all just having them build the Crucible in the first place. If any of the options you are afforded at the end actually coincide with its goals, and are a more elegant solution to the problem (assuming it is a problem, personally I think it's an inane conflict given the content we just played through) than it would have just created the Crucible instead of the Reapers and Synthesized everyone (whatever the he'll that even means).

Some of the options you are provided with in the end are completely counter indicative of the Catalyst's expressed goals and objectives. It could be argued that all of them are counter indicative of Shepard's goals and objectives. Why would the creator of the Reapers even give Shepard a choice in the matter? Put on your speculation hats, ladies and gents.

The Reapers are not fond of casualties on their side. A war of attrition favors them greatly. Unfortunately, they already have all this tech lying all over the galaxy in the form of Mass Relays. It is very easy for their enemies to zip around and disturb all their work, thanks to Sovereign's failure against that damnable Commander Shepard. Luckily for the Reapers, this ain't their first rodeo. They've had countless cycles of harvests to get good at killing organics, and it shows.

As soon as Shepard's home planet is invaded, they unlocked some oh-so tempting new data from the huge cache of Prothean work on Mars. It's amazing how easy it is to control something you laid the groundwork for. This new data lead to the conveniently timed discovery of some sort of supersomething that can beat the Reapers! How cute, they really think they're going to do it.

The Crucible is a fail safe. It is a Reaper-designed device in a sea of Reaper-designed devices. Its purpose is to overload the Mass Relays without them going supernova so the Reapers can harvest in peace without having to worry about the organics out maneuvering them. All under the guise of the organics actually winning the war.

It's perfect: Shepard sacrifices his or her life in vain, the galaxy thinks it has won and that the Reapers conflict is over, and nearly the entire galactic military is in one central location. Yes, some Reapers in the immediate area may need to be sacrificed, but now they have the whole galaxy in their grasp. Perhaps their losses would have been greater in a toe to toe brawl. Apparently even a Thrasher Maw can take down a Reaper.

It's true, I'd rather believe all that (meaning we just lost the war in a really bad way) than trust the Catalyst. Nothing leads me to believe it is trustworthy. To me, that seemed to be the intent. If it wasn't, I don't know what they were thinking.

[LiarasShield]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The fuel station is a refinary,

Which requires fuel to transport. 

You also said nothing about it being a refinery, you implied it was a massive tanker.

2. Contiued use of fuel to keep momentum is only a case with vichiles in heavier graivties....Space have little gravity so it won't be a problem out side of starting and stopping.

Which shows me you don't understand what you're talking about.

Ships lock their destinations, accelerate to the midpoint, which requires the use constant fuel, and then decelerate to the end, which likewise takes constant fuel consumption.

The FTL effect is maintained by a constant use of fuel to reduce mass. Two problems arise. One, accelerating to FTL then stopping the fuel input causes the ship to slow down to sub-light speeds, which makes interstellar travel impossible. Two, accelerating to FTL and then using the effect of momentum to conserve fuel, causes lethal Cherenkov's radiation to be released.

Do you even understand how mometum is space even works? You don't need to maintain mometum inspace because it's vastly low gravity. Only starting and stoping is an issue.

The runing out of food and resources would ultimately end up being a issue espically for the quarians since they usually send their young on piligrmages to get resources for the flotilla because they don't have that much and have been able to barely survive as it is with the reapers devastating mostly the entire galaxy it will make it extremely hard to find good resources or any real decent resources that have been damaged to keep them going or keep up food supplies

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Gas giants can be used for fuel, IF you construct dedicated orbital stations for this purpose.

Using a fuel station to refuel is rather different than sucking fuel out of a planet

If you have the fuel station on the ship...It would not be a problem.

And when do you plan to arrive? in this century or in the next millennium?

Do you even know how close the sol system is tothe other home worlds? It would take at most a decade for everyone bu the quarians to get home. The krogan and the bartariaan would have the shortest time to get home because of how close the sol system is to their home worlds. Only the quarians whould have a long time to get home....50 years at the least.

All conjecture. 

There are other problems to solve.

1. Build the live ships.
2. Set a system of growing food.
3. Plan the flight paths via qec.
4.Lauch ships and matating speed with mometum.
5.refuel on  flight paths with ship refinery and gas giants.
6. Get home in a decade with the majority of the races.(Qurians taking way longer and may not even try to go home.)

[mauro2222]

This guy doesn't get it. There is no such thing as FTL engines, the eezo core reduces the mass of the ship allowing it to go at FTL speeds, the eezo core needs to be running during all the trip.

The eezo core and the engines consume the fuel. If you turn off the eezo core, the ship will automatically have a higher mass, reducing the speed and killing everybody aboard.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. Build the live ships.

Sure. 

2. Set a system of growing food.

That's what Mass Effect live-ships are for, nice one, your absolute theoretical and non-reasoned solution is actually relatively sane for now. 

3. Plan the flight paths via qec.

QEC with who? 

People along the way? 

There aren't any. Clusters are months and years apart. 

4.Lauch ships and matating speed with mometum.

So you like the prospect of the journey taking tens of thousands of years? 

Providing everyone doesn't die in the attempt by exposure to the afore mentioned radiation. 

5.refuel on  flight paths with ship refinery and gas giants.

Possible. 

6. Get home in a decade with the majority of the races.(Qurians taking way longer and may not even try to go home.)

Conjecture. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 08 juin 2012 - 06:50 .

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Do you even understand how mometum is space even works? You don't need to maintain mometum inspace because it's vastly low gravity. Only starting and stoping is an issue.

It's nice to see you ignore everything I just said. 

I KNOW HOW F*CKING MOMENTUM WORKS. 

Using it as a means of travel is not possible for the two reasons I stated previously. Read them again. 

You complety missed the fact the flt don't need to be mantain constatly. Your in space. Only the start and stop is an issue..
A ship can go into flt, drop it's feild and stay at ftl. It need no constant use of fuel.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The fuel station is a refinary,

Which requires fuel to transport. 

You also said nothing about it being a refinery, you implied it was a massive tanker.

2. Contiued use of fuel to keep momentum is only a case with vichiles in heavier graivties....Space have little gravity so it won't be a problem out side of starting and stopping.

Which shows me you don't understand what you're talking about.

Ships lock their destinations, accelerate to the midpoint, which requires the use constant fuel, and then decelerate to the end, which likewise takes constant fuel consumption.

The FTL effect is maintained by a constant use of fuel to reduce mass. Two problems arise. One, accelerating to FTL then stopping the fuel input causes the ship to slow down to sub-light speeds, which makes interstellar travel impossible. Two, accelerating to FTL and then using the effect of momentum to conserve fuel, causes lethal Cherenkov's radiation to be released.

Do you even understand how mometum is space even works? You don't need to maintain mometum inspace because it's vastly low gravity. Only starting and stoping is an issue.

Do you not understand the concept of drag? the dust provides a frictional force proportional to velocity^2, which seeing as you're travelling at FTL gets pretty damn big.
The power required to overcome this drag is then proportional to velocity^3, which again at FTL is huge. This power requires the constant burning of fuel, which is limited.

[Redbelle]

wright1978 wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

The first cycle. How did Reapers come into being. If we take the Cat's mission statement as an indicator then the Reapers were a response to some Rise of The Machine day of reckoning.

Still doesn't explain how the Reapers came about, I mean, they are the harvested goo sacks of an extinct species and who's going to join the goo queue for that? Certanly not willingly. But hang on. Hasn't there been a plot device in 3 games that shows ppl doing things that they would not normally do? Indoctrination, I think you may have alot to answer for.

Maybe not. Maybe everyone in the first cycle thought being a Reaper would come with a huge benefits package, but I personally doubt it. Anyway, in the first cycle advanced races come up with Synth's, who go a bit nuts, and utterly outclass the orgs leading to Reapers being designed. Maybe as a hail mary saving throw, or the Orgs were on their way out and it was a last ditch effort revenge thing.....

Yeah my personal theory is that  Catalyst is a religious cult leader. He came up with the nutty idealogical theory that created will destroy creators. Gained a following and then massacred the rest of the galaxy that didn't follow him to create first reapers. So basically a madman who has gained ability to commit galactic genocide.

A cult leader is certainly possible. But then again it could also be a plan to save the lesser species who were not advanced enough to make synths that got out of hand.

Redbelle wrote...

....The Reaper mandate however is clear. Save the Orgs, destroy the Synth's,
destroy anything that may result in more Synth's. Waaaaait a minute!!!
Synth's originate from Orgs, therefore to stop Synths Reapers must kill Orgs and Reapers are supposed to save the Org's!?!?
This is starting to sound like the 3 rules of robotics which were
designed to protect humans from robots till the robots figured out that
by taking control of us would save more of us by preventing wars and
stuff!

I think the Reaper rules of saving Org's from Synth's may
be like the logic used for the 3 rules. It was designed to do one thing.
But creative reinterpretation to achieve a better result by breaking
the letter of those rules and following the spirit of those rules via a
different methodology is a viable alternative to the 'Cat is lying'
argument.

Anyway, I'm just throwing this idea into the pool to see if it has the legs to sink or swim.

I've got a feeling that this line of logic is missing an important key that could either make it or break it. Damned if I can figure it out right now. Think I'll just go and shoot things in MP instead.

[MisterJB]

LiarasShield wrote...
The Catalyst says that he is supposedly protecting us from synthetics yet they use the reaper code to take control over the geth to kill us instead of not simply shutting the geth down and if they're trying to save us why keep using the reapers who are essentially organic synthetics beings to keep killing us all the time if they're ment to save us from synthetics wouldn't make more sense to destroy the synthetics or to give organics warning of the danger of synthetics instead of constantly destroying them that isn't saving anybody

We have proven time and time again that we will pick what is benefitial on a short term even if it has terrible long term consequences. Shutting the geth would just mean these particular synthetics are no longer a threat but we can, and will because they are extremely useful, build more. And not even the Reapers have the capacity to constantly police the galaxy to make sure we can't build more.
The only way to prevent this is to destroy advanced civilizations before they can build synthetics. Note that I said "civilizations", not "species".

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Do you even understand how mometum is space even works? You don't need to maintain mometum inspace because it's vastly low gravity. Only starting and stoping is an issue.

It's nice to see you ignore everything I just said. 

I KNOW HOW F*CKING MOMENTUM WORKS. 

Using it as a means of travel is not possible for the two reasons I stated previously. Read them again. 

You complety missed the fact the flt don't need to be mantain constatly.

DERP. 

You do need to maintain it, that's my point.

Your in space. Only the start and stop is an issue..
A ship can go into flt, drop it's feild and stay at ftl. It need no constant use of fuel.

FTL DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.

GOODNIGHT. 

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Do you even understand how mometum is space even works? You don't need to maintain mometum inspace because it's vastly low gravity. Only starting and stoping is an issue.

It's nice to see you ignore everything I just said. 

I KNOW HOW F*CKING MOMENTUM WORKS. 

Using it as a means of travel is not possible for the two reasons I stated previously. Read them again. 

You complety missed the fact the flt don't need to be mantain constatly. Your in space. Only the start and stop is an issue..
A ship can go into flt, drop it's feild and stay at ftl. It need no constant use of fuel.

No it can't. Travelling at FTL outside an FTL field causes deadly Cerenkov radiation as we are told in the games.

[Wulfram]

mauro2222 wrote...

It's used for fighter crafts... bigger ships don't have Helios engines.

The Normandy does.  I don't see any reason why any ship shouldn't.  It's just a question of providing thrust.

Or they could look into Ion drives.  Trading slow acceleration for endurance starts to look attractive when you're going for weeks or months.

Modifié par Wulfram, 08 juin 2012 - 06:54 .

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1. Build the live ships.

Sure. 

2. Set a system of growing food.

That's what Mass Effect live-ships are for, nice one, your absolute theoretical and non-reasoned solution is actually relatively sane for now. 

3. Plan the flight paths via qec.

QEC with who? 

People along the way? 

There aren't any. Clusters are months and years apart. 

4.Lauch ships and matating speed with mometum.

So you like the prospect of the journey taking tens of thousands of years? 

Providing everyone doesn't die in the attempt by exposure to the afore mentioned radiation. 

5.refuel on  flight paths with ship refinery and gas giants.

Possible. 

6. Get home in a decade with the majority of the races.(Qurians taking way longer and may not even try to go home.)

Conjecture. 

The Night Mammoth...Look at a star map. The home worlds are way closer then you think...It will not take a any were near 1000 years.