207 réponses à ce sujet

[Ektogamut]

ANother comment on the class. Last night I was rolling with a team of biotics, and it feels like much more of a vanguard/adept hybrid then other vanguards I have played a bit (Krogan, Drell). At some points I was sitting back detonating things with lash, and then a few seconds later I would be up in a Boss' grill pounding smash. Thinking of him that way was sort of helpful to me, at least.

And again, smash is (more) incredible now.

[Nicla Karsavina]

I tried a few silver matches with random teammates/enemy/map with this character and tried the "glass cannon" build first, but, well, without any special equipment I was dying a lot. So after a humiliating and depressive match against Geth on Condor, I went for the 66066 build - accepting with good grace that Arelex despises a player like me for not being man enough to go into battle with 0 points spent in fitness, but I gladly renounce the right of adding bass to my voice and hair on my chest -, choosing the more precautionary radius evolution of the smash power and carrying my friendly Paladin V. 
This build fits very well on me, but I still think this character has some fragility. The main weakness is the pattern charge/smash/charge, as the class doesn't have any power to get out of trouble in difficult situations: Drell and Asari have grenades, the Novaguard has Nova and Nova cancelling, the Krogan has his shields. I'm always careful when I charge, but the point is that charging has an inherent riskiness that cannot be prevented, as it teleports you in other parts of the map where the enemy placing is at least partially unknown. So if you get in a difficult position after a charge it's a disaster, because all you want to do is to charge again as soon as possible to regain shields and doing so you miss the opportunity to use smash, which is where true power lies in this character. I think that sometimes running towards a group of enemies, taking cover, than smash and charge could be a better strategy instead of charging in the first place. 
Another weakness is related to different kinds of map: this class is better on cramped maps with choke points like White and Glacier, he's still good on maps that offer protection for close combat, like Reactor, Ghost, Giant, maybe Goddess, but in open maps like Condor or Hydra he's too exposed and doesn't shine, in my opinion. Anyway this character is powerful and definitely gold viable, providing that you choose the location in advance; smash is great stuff and after the buff is even too much powerful. I'm not sure that playing this class is all about "finesse", aesthetically this circus director with neon whips obviously lacks in elegance, his matter-of-fact, quiet and resigned tone when he loses his shields or dies is really annoying, while from a tactical point of view using smash every second against a wall or a cover does not make me feel an intelligent player, let alone a player with tactical "finesse"; but it's true it requires skill to play a vanguard with no "emergency escape button" if you happen to be in the thick of things.

-Jared- wrote...

What do you think about 6/6/4/4/6 ?

So you got full Health/Shields. and IMO you dont need the Lash at Rank 6, cause the recharge time is pretty low, though.

And Lash against Barriers and Shields? Hmm, don't know if it's neccesary .. other opinions? =)

I tried the 66446 build, but lash is quite useless without rank 6, and you can't miss the 5 rank evolution of Phoenix training. In my opinion you should better leave lash out and become a specialist in close combat; after the buff casting smash every second or so is just too good to lose time throwing enemies almost unharmed at your back or side. 

AreleX wrote...
 i'm never impolite to anyone who hasn't first done something to warrant it.

No, I was just referring to foul language. It's like watching a beautiful and elegant woman who starts loudly ruminating a chewing gum with her mouth open. It quite ruins the effect, doesn't it? I don't master english perfectly and the word "impolite" was not what I had in mind, so I apologise for the strength of the sentence.

Modifié par Nicla Karsavina, 14 juin 2012 - 07:31 .

[Nicla Karsavina]

ehm... no, double post. 

Modifié par Nicla Karsavina, 14 juin 2012 - 07:33 .

[AreleX]

the class is all about finesse because you don't have a get out of jail free card when you make a mistake. the finesse is in the positioning, the timing, and the tactics. playing the class requires good foresight. if you're (as in anyone) having trouble with the class, i guarantee the problem is linked to one of those three areas. try your best to be aware of them so you can self-improve and accurately assess your gameplay to see where you're going wrong.

[WaffleCrab]

I prefer my whiplash guard fitness maxed for melee. no lash. Smash+heavymelee(360 degree Aoe Stagger) then charge.

[Black Phantom]

Nicla Karsavina wrote...
I still think this character has some fragility. The main weakness is the pattern charge/smash/charge, as the class doesn't have any power to get out of trouble in difficult situations: Drell and Asari have grenades, the Novaguard has Nova and Nova cancelling, the Krogan has his shields.

The pattern should be: charge/shoot/ heavy melee/smash

If you're running a 200% CD bonus, there should be little to no idle time between attacks, and the melee will keep enemies staggered long enough to use Smash. (It's AoE, like Nova)

The damage gets even more ridiculous if you're specced for melee damage, using melee boosting consumables, and a melee mod on your weapon. It also helps to know how to cancel the Smash animation halfway through with a heavy melee (using melee and Smash at the same time). Ever since the power was buffed, you can actually combine those attacks indefinitely if your CD is near 200%.

Or you can biotic charge right afterwards for biotic explosions.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 14 juin 2012 - 08:32 .

[Ektogamut]

Nicla Karsavina wrote...

I think that sometimes running towards a group of enemies, taking cover, than smash and charge could be a better strategy instead of charging in the first place. 

I think this was mentioned on another PV thread as well.  This is a good idea and should be practiced and cultivated while playing the class.    I am still figuring out the right way to do that without getting killed.

[jezym108]

Apologies if this has been discussed before but does the final rank of smash (armor damage) apply the extra 75% effectiveness to shields as well?

I'm guessing it doesn't because it isn't specifically mentioned but it doesn't hurt to ask right?

[Arppis]

AreleX wrote...

the class is all about finesse because you don't have a get out of jail free card when you make a mistake. the finesse is in the positioning, the timing, and the tactics. playing the class requires good foresight. if you're (as in anyone) having trouble with the class, i guarantee the problem is linked to one of those three areas. try your best to be aware of them so you can self-improve and accurately assess your gameplay to see where you're going wrong.

Dunno, being a reckless like with Novaguard works here too!

I actualy use a funny build myself. I think it's... 6/6/3/6/5. If I recall right.

I just wanted the base Lash for myself and see what the smash was about. Works like charm for me. Too bad I don't get to use the Smash much. I'm having too much fun with the Lash!

[Arppis]

jezym108 wrote...

Apologies if this has been discussed before but does the final rank of smash (armor damage) apply the extra 75% effectiveness to shields as well?

I'm guessing it doesn't because it isn't specifically mentioned but it doesn't hurt to ask right?

I guess it's only armor... I mean from what the tooltip said. I tried it, but I actualy like more AOE personaly, makes more pay-off for the long animation.

[jezym108]

Arppis wrote...

jezym108 wrote...

Apologies if this has been discussed before but does the final rank of smash (armor damage) apply the extra 75% effectiveness to shields as well?

I'm guessing it doesn't because it isn't specifically mentioned but it doesn't hurt to ask right?

I guess it's only armor... I mean from what the tooltip said. I tried it, but I actualy like more AOE personaly, makes more pay-off for the long animation.

Even though the rank is called armor damage this is what the description says:
Increase effectiveness against armor and barriers by 75%.

So I was thinking that it's a bit like disruptor ammo (which sounds like it damages shields but actually does the same extra damage against both shields and barriers).

It should be easy enough to check against a gold marauder or centurion because if it does extra damage against shields it will completely remove their shields and some of their health but if it doesn't work both should have some of their shields left (1292 damage smash with no power amplifying gear). 

I would do it myself but I don't have access to the game.

Modifié par jezym108, 15 juin 2012 - 11:06 .

[Pekkan]

Smash isn't the only power that has -  Armor + barrier damage bonus but no shield damage bonus  - evolution. Reave Rank 6 also has the same option,

Increase effectiveness against armor and barriers by 75%.

So it's not like shield and barrier damage bonuses always come together.

Modifié par Pekkan, 15 juin 2012 - 11:27 .

[jezym108]

Very good point, I totally forgot about reave having the same option.
Thanks Pekkan

[AreleX]

with the right spec and equips, the armor evo will two-shot brutes and ravagers. you can't beat that

[Amano Kazumi]

AreleX wrote...

with the right spec and equips, the armor evo will two-shot brutes and ravagers. you can't beat that

Yep. And even without Power damage Gear and Equipment, you can Smash -> shoot your shotgun during the downtime -> Smash to essentially 2 shot them regardless.

Smash <33333 XOXOXOXO

[-Jared-]

Some experience reports from me:

I tried all 3 Builds which are in the OP and one other I use for myself now.

6/6/0/6/6 - Build, all focused on Melee and Smash. It is quite a really good build and you do massive damage. But I personally think this has not enough "tactical" options (cause no Lash). If you're looking for a extreme damage dealer (with low health) - this is the build you want

6/6/0/6/6 - Build too, but survivability. not my style .. no Lash .. yes you have 825 Health and you can wait till your enemy dies of hunger

6/6/6/6/0 - Build,best so far, but too less Health for my taste. I really don't know why, but I take ONE single shot from a Geth Prime at Gold and I am ALWAYS down ... even with Shield-Gear (Rank II).

So I tried the following: 6/6/6/4/4

Charge, Smash and Lash are like the class Cannon.
Rank 4 of Phoenix Training is "Damage & Capacity"
Rank 4 of Fitness is "Durability"

This really really works fine for me. You're gonna deal massive damage, got a "tactical" touch through the Lash at Rank 6 (which is amazing against any enemies without armor! Lash --> Charge --> BOOM ), and you're not gonna die at the first shot (700 Health at least, Glas Cannon hast 500)

Just my 2 cents =)

Modifié par -Jared-, 16 juin 2012 - 03:36 .

[AreleX]

fitness all depends on your comfort levels. i tried to make options for players of varying degrees of skill/comfort. you can take none if you so please, and you can max it out, if you feel you need it. what matters is that a. you're staying alive, b. you're contributing to the team, and c. you're having fun.

for an 'intermediate' build between glass cannon and survivor, i'd suggest 6/6/6/4/4 or 6/6/6/5/3.

[AreleX]

i have updated the builds with a new one, and posted up a new tactic in the smash section - check it out!

[Kev87]

6/6/6/4/4 is build i use quite effectively on gold

[AreleX]

i think that the smash buff is so strong that skipping power 5 in phoenix training to get melee damage doesn't hurt AS much now. throw on a mental focuser v and power amp III and you'll be just fine.

[AreleX]

i am highly considering removing the entire guide and replacing it with this image

[o0WicKeT0o]

My appologies if this has been discussed already. I've searched but keep getting mixed answers. And it wasnt clear on that list of Detonations & Bursts. I know lash can detonate smash. But is it only possible against enemies with out armor? I believe I've done it to Phantoms with barriers up and other enemies with just health. I can't say I've seen it on straight up shields though. Seems to fail against straight up armor like Brutes. Can someone confirm exactly how this works cause I'm confused... Also this might be stupid, but Ive been wondering. Is it the same amount of damage as lash->smash explosions? Cause smash->lash seem bigger to me somehow.

Awesome guide by the way man. Smash-> Heavy Melee cancel is so bad ass!!! I don't see how people can say this class sucks when it clearly beasts through bosses like no other. Im deciding on wether to respec for glass cannon or joat. I'm running 3/6/6/5/6 specced for melee. Which kicked ass on silver getting power bonus from heavymelee. But lvl 3 charge doesn't seem to cut it since ive started playing on gold. I find myself being forced to play more like an adept with out singularity. Glass cannon seems to be most effective with biotic teammates. And seeing as how none of my friends play this game, and my mom told me never to trust strangers. Joat seems to fit someone who ends up with random teams mostly consisting of tech players. Usually like 3 infiltrators... everytime... Would you agree with that assessment?

One last thing. You said in the video that you would explain lash else where. The other video you posted has no commentary. However it does seem to demonstrate lash a lot. Is that the video you were refering to?

[Dorje Sylas]

Smash adds a floating effect to valid targets. Armored foes are not those. Just like Pull and other Lift style biotic Shields and Armor negate the effect. Personally I don't bank on getting biotic explosions off this class anyways, at least not without another biotic on the team. Smash itself is a fairly powerful move

Biotic Explosions are based on the level to the two powers, any bonuses those powers may have, and the health of the target. The reason why Smash -> Lash seems bigger is because Smash is bigger. Smash is kinda hiding the effect of the explosion from you when you Lash -> Smash. No, there should not be any damage difference in the explosion.

I also use a 3/6/6/5/6 but spec for shields. I play a fair amount of Gold as the Smashguard. It's one of the few classes I feel comfortable with on gold. 3 biotic charge is just if you're playing smart and keeping your distance. You never, ever want to take on hords of guys direct, even with Smash. Troopers on gold will strip your shields in a few heartbeats. Don't give them a target. Smash through cover, not around. I'll often just stand behind tall cover instead of actually taking cover.

Likewise with Lash you can take cover part way through the animation. I'll break cover (spacebar), throw the Lash, and then immediately mash spacebar again as soon as its away. That way I'm back in cover ASAP and not getting shot.

On Gold I try to Lash away the cannon fodder (Troopers and Shield w/ Health). Only once the majority of those are gone will I start moving up on bigger foes, if they haven't reach my position yet.

I use Charge as a close range, quick shield gate re-up. Not an attack method. This is slightly better IMO then the Adept as shield gate is your life in Gold. Not necessarily how much shield you have. Again it's not an attack method. It is a heal/transportation tool and should not be use to take you to a pack of enemies.

[AreleX]

lash can only detonate on enemies without armor, yes

[ulaish]

Falcon X is a great weapon for this class. It staggers the group of enemies so you have time to smash without getting shot.

Modifié par ulaish, 02 juillet 2012 - 12:32 .