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The Mass Effect Andromeda Twitter Thread


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#27626
Hanako Ikezawa

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Personally, I think this is completely fair. Criticism is one thing--a very good thing, but all the people claiming they're 'sensitive butterflies' or whatever for having a very human reaction to a part of the community that sent them death threats, threatened their families, and demanded that some individuals be thrown into poverty or commit suicide is something that should be taken very seriously and it's uncomfortable to see people are acting like not putting up with that brand of 'criticism' means they don't want criticism at all or that Bioware should put up with it because 'lol internet'. 

 

Especially when fans murdering celebrities and people who were in the lime light is a very real thing. Any threat should be taken seriously and nothing--absolutely nothing--justifies such threats or vile behaviour. It doesn't matter if you didn't like the ending, the direction a game went in, or something that was done to a favourite character. If you take it that far then, to be quite honest, psychiatric help is required. Even if it's 'just talk', because the amount of hate in something like that is kind of frightening. 

Then why not just punish the offenders? Why punish everyone, when the vast majority of people here have done none of these heinous things?


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#27627
Dirgegun

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Then why not just punish the offenders? Why punish everyone, when the vast majority of people here have done none of these heinous things?

 

I think a part of it is that it's gotten away from them and that there's a lot of offenders. At least that I've personally seen.  :unsure:

 

Admittedly, I don't know anything about the mods that are now in place. I hear a lot about outsourcing where it comes to that? I've noticed that the actual toxic threads weren't closed when they should have been, though. I remember one that had someone make demands that his male character should be able to r*pe the female companions to punish them, and that was allowed to go on for... far too many pages.  



#27628
Hanako Ikezawa

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I think a part of it is that it's gotten away from them and that there's a lot of offenders. At least that I've personally seen.  :unsure:

Then make a new official forum and start from scratch, making the issue easier to handle. No need to destroy the official forums and leave the fans with nothing. 

 

Admittedly, I don't know anything about the mods that are now in place. I hear a lot about outsourcing where it comes to that? I've noticed that the actual toxic threads weren't closed when they should have been, though. I remember one that had someone make demands that his male character should be able to r*pe the female companions to punish them, and that was allowed to go on for... far too many pages.  

The issue with threads like that is people figured out there were little to no moderation on the weekends, so would make those threads early in the weekend and due to the controversial nature of it would blow up. So have some moderators be on in the weekend and poof, issue gone. Besides, such threads rarely ever happened even with that discovery. Those kinds of threads had maybe one show up every several months, and never lasted more than a few days. 



#27629
Dirgegun

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Then make a new official forum and start from scratch, making the issue easier to handle. No need to destroy the official forums and leave the fans with nothing. 

 

The issue with threads like that is people figured out there were little to no moderation on the weekends, so would make those threads early in the weekend and due to the controversial nature of it would blow up. So have some moderators be on in the weekend and poof, issue gone. 

 

Oh, I definitely agree that they should start again and work out a better moderation system! I know I'll be sad to see the forums go completely because it was the easiest way to find all the latest info in one place and when you found a good, intelligent discussion it was truly something enjoyable to take part in. 

 

I just mean that I agree that not accepting toxic 'criticism' =/= not accepting criticism at all. I belatedly realise I should have added much more along these lines to my original post. ^^;


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#27630
Sartoz

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That sounds pretty conspiratorial. I know people are upset, but it's not like they're coming around to your house and setting it on fire. 

                                                                                    <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Surely Bio expected the speculation floodgates to open up once this surprising, out of the blue, announcement was made?

 

Conal was prepared for it. Just look at how he earned his salary the other day. I think he deserves a bonus for his exuberant

thread locking. Don't you?

 

There is nothing conspiratorial, imo, about the closing. To me, it's more of a tactical preventive strike. An insulation, if you will,

from potential future criticisms. If so, it shows a lack of confidence in their new properties. Why do I say that? I'll answer by asking,

why is the Star Wars Forum kept open?

 

Or

 

It can be as simple as a cost cutting move.

 

Or

 

Bio saw no further benefits to keep DA + ME open, but do see a benefit for the Star Wars one.


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#27631
Gannayev of Dreams

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Bio saw no further benefits to keep DA + ME open, but do see a benefit for the Star Wars one.

 

Star Wars is an MMO. They continue to add content and people are expected to continually play it, and thus continually talk about it. It's important to their bottom line to have a space for discussion about it, place to air grievances and offer ongoing feedback, etc.

 

Not so much value in having a place to discuss old games that have run their course. I mean, there is for us, the fans who still play them and look forward to the next installment. It just doesn't match dollar value for a still (somewhat) relevant MMO.



#27632
Sartoz

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Star Wars is an MMO. They continue to add content and people are expected to continually play it, and thus continually talk about it. It's important to their bottom line to have a space for discussion about it, place to air grievances and offer ongoing feedback, etc.

 

Not so much value in having a place to discuss old games that have run their course. I mean, there is for us, the fans who still play them and look forward to the next installment. It just doesn't match dollar value for a still (somewhat) relevant MMO.

                                                                                    <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

If MMOs are cash cows, I suspect that ME:A multiplayer is also designed to be one. If, successful, maybe there will be a ME:A forum


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#27633
Gannayev of Dreams

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                                                                                    <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

If MMOs are cash cows, I suspect that ME:A multiplayer is also designed to be one. If, successful, maybe there will be a ME:A forum

 

Seems unlikely to reach "cash cow" status. ME:A multiplayer will probably receive a few DLC updates over the game's lifecycle. Also come with microtransactions. But, unlike an MMO, there will be no subscription based services or any continual development of content.

 

I'm sure some people still spend money on ME:3's multiplayer, but it is a meager trickle of revenue compared to other things. Especially their SW MMO.



#27634
Darth_Atreyu

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The amount of conspiracy theories and tinfoil-hatism I read here on this usually sound twitter thread, further proves the point on why this forum had to go.

The amount of hatred, vile, toxicity, insanity that has gone on in this place is beyond acceptable really. It's amazing that the so-called "fans" have driven away developers from their own forums. Closing this hellhole is the right decision. I only hope that they keep it archived, so that people can get technical and bug fixing issues help.


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#27635
Rascoth

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I only hope that they keep it archived, so that people can get technical and bug fixing issues help.

Well...

Because we know there is a lot of information on there you may want to keep, the public boards will remain in a read-only state until October 25, 2016. After that date, they will be taken down.



#27636
Dubozz

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The amount of hatred, vile, toxicity, insanity that has gone on in this place is beyond acceptable really.

So you are fighting toxicity by spreading it? job well done
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#27637
FirstBlood XL

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I can't help but laugh at all these BW Zealots blaming their fellow forum members for the forum closure.  It's pretty hilarious.

 

Vile, toxic, hatred... these words keep getting thrown around a VIDEO GAME FORUM.  Where the main thread is for Twitter updates... and 3/4 of the threads are about what clothes characters will wear, their hair quality, and how they'll be 'romanced'.  Holy hell, it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.  

 

You might as well cover your ears and yell 'They don't like my favorite video game! They're vile, toxic, hate filled bigots!!  Shut it down!'.  Start running around in circles while you're at it.  Maybe invest in some sound-proof earmuffs, so you're hands will be free to wave erratically above your heads.

 

Oh, the drama!  Sip your kook-aid, find your safe-space, and calm down. LOL.


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#27638
FireAndBlood

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Twitter thread people, remember.


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#27639
CronoDragoon

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So you are fighting toxicity by spreading it? job well done

 

Is this the ol' "intolerant of intolerance" argument?


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#27640
ModernAcademic

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I doubt it was EA. This has a feeling of vengeance about it not corporate streamlining.

But ME3 was a typical EA product, not a Bioware creation. Which is why so many writers quit BW after its release. Even Casey Hudson, creator of Mass Effect, heavily criticized the writing of ME3.

The devs must've actually loved the fact that ME3 was received poorly by the players. The feedback was solid evidence to backup the devs' insatisfaction at EA's decisions. Their interference in the creative process is what caused so many writers to quit. So who do you think is left at Bioware to make decisions for the company from now on?

Trust me. Shutting down the forums doesn't hurt BioWare. BW was already imploded by EA. It only hurts EA itself.

#27641
CronoDragoon

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But ME3 was a typical EA product, not a Bioware creation. Which is why so many writers quit BW after its release.

 

Such as? Dombrow left and then came back, which makes his departure irreconcilable with your larger point. Who else left after ME3?



#27642
AtreiyaN7

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Oh, their poor little butterfly hearts!

 

Negativity seems like a supremely lame excuse. This is the Internet. You're going to find negativity wherever you go, here and everywhere else, in this gaming forum and in every other.

 

Frankly, I found their excuse hard to believe, not only because it is blatant corporate speak, but also because they rarely used these forums for feedback all that much anyway, even in the halcyon days before ME3.

 

How incredibly mature and understanding of you. *sarcasm*

 

Apparently, some people just can't get it through their heads that deaths threats, threats of violence, name-calling, and abuse are completely unacceptable and that no one should have to just sit there and take it - especially not when people occasionally do act on those threats.

 

I suppose you'd be perfectly fine with constantly receiving death threats from random strangers on the internet or having them threaten to beat you up because they didn't like something that you wrote or created? Is that okay to you? Is that acceptable to you? My opinion is that it's not okay and that it's not acceptable behavior. I wouldn't wish that sort of thing on anyone even if I had paid $200 for a game and the game (or its ending) sucked. Saying "this is the internet" is literally the STUPIDEST cop-out ever and is the lamest justification that I've ever seen used for excusing away bad online behavior.

 

Let me tell you that on my job, I've had to deal with authors who are just as egotistical, self-entitled and delusional as some of the worst people that I have seen here or on the internet in general - the ones who think that they have a right to say literally anything because they ponied up $60 for a game that they didn't enjoy (or some other product) and who feel that that they're entitled to spew expletives, to scream at people, and to stomp their feet and throw verbal tantrums.

 

I'll tell you a story about one sorry author that I had to work with who ended up blacklisted over his abusive behavior - a man who proclaimed himself the greatest writer in the world on every page of front matter and/or back matter written by him about himself (lololol - that's literally the only thing about that whole horrible situation that can still make me laugh). A little background first:

 

  1. This author...let's call him Captain Ego...literally wrote a page of quotes with quotes entirely devoted to himself and how great he was, how talented he was (lol). He more or less constantly stated that he was God's gift to writing (lol).
    • Please keep in mind that this was/is an author who can't write decent dialogue, who doesn't understand grammar at all, and who completely fails at punctuation and spelling way too many times for my taste. His edits weren't great either when I got them.
  2. He even had a friend write an introduction that included a line that went something like: "His mom gave birth to a legend."
  3. And finally, Captain Ego also lied and said he was a best-selling author (so not true) and claimed that he was going to be a billionaire one day (he was/is completely delusional as far as that goes),

 

I put up with all of his crap and all of his ego for several of his (bad urban fiction) novels, including a revised version of one of his early novels - right up until things finally came to a head on his final novel. I will break down exactly what happened here:

 

  1. It was around the time of his fourth novel or so, and I was told that Captain Ego had more post-pub edits to do on his latest title (EDIT: that or the post-pub edits in question were for his third title - it's been a while).
  2. I didn't like that news at all, because Captain Ego was a complete failure as a writer as stated above. I inevitably ended up having to fix multiple errors whenever he submitted edits, even though it's not actually my job to do that.
    • I have to take a moment to explain that the policy for authors during the editing rounds is that all their edits will be inserted exactly as-is, including any mistakes that they make (which is why they're supposed to go over their edits carefully before submitting them for insertion).
    • It's solely because I actually CARE about trying to put out a respectable product that I so often take it upon myself to fix the ten million mistakes that the really bad authors make.
  3. I proceeded to dutifully do my job and inserted all of Captain Ego's post-pub edits, despite the fact that I intensely disliked him (I didn't hate him at the time - it was only after what happened next that dislike turned into outright hate).
  4. After Captain Ego finally got around to reviewing the new galley proof, he came back and suddenly claimed that I had messed up and that I had not inserted the edits correctly.
  5. I pointed out in an e-mail that I had inserted exactly what was on his edit form.
  6. He started screaming and threatening the company with a lawsuit and shouting about how he's the greatest, blah blah blah. This was all happening via e-mail (consider it the equivalent of toxic posts on the forums).
  7. I was like, I've had enough of Captain Ego and his craziness, and I told my superior that I wasn't going to deal with this guy's crap anymore.
  8. You know what happened shortly thereafter? Well, this giant, egotistical jerk finally told us that, woops, he didn't even actually know what was on his edit form!!!!!
  9. He then admitted that he had had someone ELSE enter his freaking edits for him and that he, genius that he was, had NOT bothered to review the form to make sure that everything was okay before the form got passed on to my company!!!!
  10. My response to all of this was that this jerk had abused my good graces for YEARS and had inflicted so much stress on me by that point with his crap that I would NEVER agree to format one of his manuscripts again after what he had just done.
    • He had actually threatened to sue us and to tell everyone that he knew about how terrible we were...over a screwup that he later admitted was ENTIRELY his fault. It was extremely stressful at the time.
  11. Captain Ego then came crawling back to us and pleaded to be taken back. All of a sudden, he was so terribly contrite about it all once he'd been informed that he would no longer be allowed to publish with us.
  12. Though the company decided to blacklist him, we agreed to finish up his current projects (and to do post-pub edits on existing titles if absolutely necessary).
  13. Because I'm reasonably nice most of the time and actually like my direct superior, I agreed to ride out the post-pub edits even though I hated Captain Ego.

That was basically the end of it, except for me having to make a few minor post-pub changes that I agreed to take on.

 

See, abusive behavior - after years of an employee or a company as a whole putting up with it - can actually result in a whole company saying that person <x> or group <x> is causing so much trouble and stress for everyone that they're just not worth the headaches that they're causing. That's why Captain Ego is no longer a giant, bloody thorn in my side (or the sides of the author representatives who had to deal with him), and I suspect that it's for similar reasons that these forums are being shut down.

 

As for me, as a contractor with my company, I am entitled to request reassignment (or to refuse an assignment) if I so choose. Because of Captain Ego (and a few other authors like him), these days I will simply request reassignment at the first hint of major trouble/nuttiness/bad attitude. I found that I don't particularly enjoy spending my days with my stomach constantly twisted into knots or feeling like acid is burning its way through my guts because I'm dreading opening my inbox, and no amount of money can convince me to work with people who are abusive jerks anymore.

 

I did feel sorry for the author reps who worked with Captain Ego, because they actually had to work with him directly. They were the ones who actually had to talk to him on the phone and deal with all of his e-mails, his demands, etc. He caused me a ton of stress, and I was just working on the design end with limited communication (basically, when he threw a tantrum, his tantrum did get forwarded to me if it was something that I could address on my end). I can only imagine that it was so much worse for them (I do know from talking to the reps that they didn't like this guy at all).


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#27643
frex98

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Twitter thread people, remember.


chv64zfde1l0.gif

To bring this slightly (but not really) back on topic, Twitter thread god Hrungr has appeared here
http://bsn.boards.net/
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#27644
Hanako Ikezawa

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How incredibly mature and understanding of you. *sarcasm*

 

Apparently, some people just can't get it through their heads that deaths threats, threats of violence, name-calling, and abuse are completely unacceptable and that no one should have to just sit there and take it - especially not when people occasionally do act on those threats.

 

I suppose you'd be perfectly fine with constantly receiving death threats from random strangers on the internet or having them threaten to beat you up because they didn't like something that you wrote or created? Is that okay to you? Is that acceptable to you? My opinion is that it's not okay and that it's not acceptable behavior. I wouldn't wish that sort of thing on anyone even if I had paid $200 for a game and the game (or its ending) sucked. Saying "this is the internet" is literally the STUPIDEST cop-out ever and is the lamest justification that I've ever seen used for excusing away bad online behavior.

Of course such things isn't okay. But again, why not just punish those individuals rather than everyone here, most of whom have done nothing close to those kinds of things? Punishing all for the actions of a few is completely unacceptable as well. 


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#27645
pdusen

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Of course such things isn't okay. But again, why not just punish those individuals rather than everyone here, most of whom have done nothing close to those kinds of things? Punishing all for the actions of a few is completely unacceptable as well. 

 

Because, as many people have pointed out repeatedly, the problem is too widespread and singling out and punishing all of the individuals responsible is simply not worth what it would cost to do so.

 

And shutting down the forum is not a punishment. It's equivalent to ceasing to provide a service.



#27646
ModernAcademic

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Such as? Dombrow left and then came back, which makes his departure irreconcilable with your larger point. Who else left after ME3?

 

Watch the If Bioware was 100% Honest With Us video.



#27647
Hanako Ikezawa

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Because, as many people have pointed out repeatedly, the problem is too widespread and singling out and punishing all of the individuals responsible is simply not worth what it would cost to do so.

 

And shutting down the forum is not a punishment. It's equivalent to ceasing to provide a service.

Then start a new official forum when this one is locked, rather than locking this one and leaving fans with nothing. 

 

It is if the reason for it is what you and the others are saying it is. Those few posters caused an offense to Bioware. 

Punishment: the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense.



#27648
Saberchic

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chv64zfde1l0.gif

To bring this slightly (but not really) back on topic, Twitter thread god Hrungr has appeared here
http://bsn.boards.net/

Seconded.

 

Can we please take the hostilities back to the other threads? This is supposed to be for twitter.

 

Kthxbai



#27649
Darth_Atreyu

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So you are fighting toxicity by spreading it? job well done

What toxicity am I spreading by saying I understand a decision, and where did I say I was fighting any such toxicity?.



#27650
SofaJockey

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To bring this slightly (but not really) back on topic, Twitter thread god Hrungr has appeared here
http://bsn.boards.net/

 

This is true.

  1. A discussion thread so people can yap in between the threads, and
  2. An archive thread that only includes the tweets

Hrungr's suggestion  ;)


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