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[Cainhurst Crow]

This is going to be a long couple of years.

[ElitePinecone]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Sparbiter wrote...

In regards to that tweet.... Do we know when they started working on me3? like, how long was it from the time they started work, to out first bits of info, to release date in march? I'm trying to get a rough timeline on when we might get our first bit of information.

Maybe I'm wrong (This is very old stuff for me), but pre-production started right after the release of ME2.

With the caveat that I really have no idea what I'm talking about, it's possible the next Mass Effect is being developed in somewhat different circumstances than the transition from ME2 to ME3. 

I mean, they're switching engines, for starters, and the DA: Inquisition team has already (apparently) had some trouble with the technical challenges of developing all the RPG systems for Frostbite. I'd expect it to take longer just because they aren't starting from the familiar engine that they used for ME-ME3. There's also a console transition to consider, and the expectation that the next game will be shinier and have larger environments, which presumably take time to create. They may need to redevelop a lot of assets, considering the graphical power of the new consoles (and depending on whether it's a cross-console game, I guess). 

ME3 was presumably started in early 2010 and was originally slated for release in late 2011 (so, roughly ~18 months in development), but Casey argued for a delay to March 2012 to polish the game - so it ended up being just over two years, give or take a few months. ME3 was announced in late 2010, or ~10 months after ME2's launch (and only a year before it was originally meant to launch).

ME2 was announced ~18 months after ME's launch, and took ~2.5 years to develop assuming it started right after ME released. It was officially revealed about ten months before it was released. 

Edit: typo, I meant ME3 was originally intended to be released in late 2011

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 29 juillet 2013 - 06:56 .

[Sparbiter]

So just over two years for a full development cycle, on average. I get what you're saying about needing extra time for a new console generations and a new engine, but they also don't need time to map out all the various outcomes since there will presumably be no import. I think it might be a wash.

That said, if it's 2 years to 3 years in a development cycle, an educated guess would put the release at the end of 2014/ early 2015.

When did we start to get info on ME3? How long before release?

Sorry, I should really make another thread for this, I'm getting OT.

[shingara]

I think i should bring something up with what people are saying about development time. The one thing you have to remember is that ME next is a shared project, its running on frostbite so its an inhouse engine, DA whatever is next is running the same game type and they are sharing assests and tips etc.

So when thinking of the next mass effect they arnt starting from fresh, so that could slash the dev time down by possibly half as what they do with the none main hubs can be glossed over and the major work is going tobe within coding the player exchanges with other npcs, possibly a co-op mode which they know how todo from DS and mainly the writing of the story and future planning if they do any in how the next one links into the rest of the trilogy.

 Infact the main thing that could be holding them back is waiting for the next gen consoles tobe released and how they are going to release them with it or not. the ports arnt really going to be hard fopr them as the next gens are basically mid range pcs without all the fluff.

Modifié par shingara, 29 juillet 2013 - 07:38 .

[Chala]

Sparbiter wrote...

So just over two years for a full development cycle, on average. I get what you're saying about needing extra time for a new console generations and a new engine, but they also don't need time to map out all the various outcomes since there will presumably be no import. I think it might be a wash.

That said, if it's 2 years to 3 years in a development cycle, an educated guess would put the release at the end of 2014/ early 2015.

When did we start to get info on ME3? How long before release?

Sorry, I should really make another thread for this, I'm getting OT.

- No official/REALLY vague Hints were given a couple of months before VGA 2010.
- Hints/Tweets came after VGA 2010.
- Concrete info (Concept art, in-game pics, etc.) began to appear after Gameinformer's coverage in May 2011... In that same month (I think it was before GI's article) the game was delayed to March 2013.

In other words, BW began to speak loudly eleven/ten months before the game's release.

Modifié par El_Chala_Legalizado, 29 juillet 2013 - 07:39 .

[ElitePinecone]

I think that even with variations in development time, the marketing strategy (do they call it a timeline?) has remained pretty consistent, at least for Mass Effect games - they have generally been revealed somewhere from a year to 10 months before launch.

Things could be slightly different for the next ME if the development period is expected to be longer (they could use a trailer like DAI did, which 'announced' the game roughly 14-18 months before launch), but it's hard to tell.

Yanick Roy did tweet and ask for feedback about what people would like to see in an ME 'announcement' trailer similar to what the Dragon Age team did, so I wouldn't be entirely ruling out seeing something before the end of the year, though it does seem a bit early still.

[ozthegweat]

I don't think it will release next fall. As others have said, there's a new console generation, a new engine and they don't want it to launch too close to DA:I.

There's also a new-ish universe to consider. Sure, the lore stays the same (OR DOES IT), but they need to create a new main character, a new main story, and, if it's again a trilogy, define what should happen over those three games.

So I'm gonna predict fall 2015 release, VGA 2014 announcement with the slight possibility of a spring 2015 release/E3 2014 announcement.

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

ozthegweat wrote...

I don't think it will release next fall. As others have said, there's a new console generation, a new engine and they don't want it to launch too close to DA:I.

There's also a new-ish universe to consider. Sure, the lore stays the same (OR DOES IT), but they need to create a new main character, a new main story, and, if it's again a trilogy, define what should happen over those three games.

So I'm gonna predict fall 2015 release, VGA 2014 announcement with the slight possibility of a spring 2015 release/E3 2014 announcement.

That sounds like such a long time from now. Thankfully, we have the tweets to keep us speculating until then

And I have to say - I am impressed at how good a job they are doing at keeping people talking about it, only if a relatively small group. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think that we have gone 14 days without ME being mentioned in one way or another - there are tweets, vague hints and, more recently, concept art - you cannot say their PR department are not earning their keep. Do I have a problem with that? Not even remotely.

Modifié par Phoenix_Also_Rises, 29 juillet 2013 - 01:17 .

[Shermos]

For the record, the link I post below contains the posts Yanick Roy made about NME (over several pages. It's worth reading through). I found it while going through my book marks and while not a tweet, I thought it would be appreciated.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/15702171/2

Based on everything he said, I'm going to stick to my guns in predicting NME will occur after ME3.

[ElitePinecone]

I think Yanick Roy's analogy about World War I and II shouldn't be too closely analysed in terms of its relevance to the timeline question, especially when he went out of his way to point out that analogies are pretty flawed devices to get a point across.

Before reading that thread I'd forgotten his other points about taking the opportunity to rethink a few of the gameplay conventions from the ME trilogy, which is interesting - clearly the game won't play as a carbon copy of Shepard's style.

Yanick said: "the words prequel / midquel / sequel come loaded with a bunch of other assumptions that don't necessarily all apply to the next ME game", which I think refers to the gap between this game's story and Shepard's trilogy. It's nonsensical to describe a game set before Shepard as a prequel if its story has nothing at all to do with Shepard or any of the major plot arcs from that trilogy, apart from just happening to be set in the same universe. It might even be unhelpful to call something a prequel/midquel/sequel, in this case, because people could assume things like the presence of characters from Shepard's trilogy that might never actually be delivered in the game.

It may even be better if the BSN itself stopped using prequel/midquel/sequel, because that *does* seem to tie MEN too closely to Shepard's trilogy, but I can't think of any other term that succinctly describes "something that's chronologically set before/during/after something else in the same universe".

[aznjoez]

ElitePinecone wrote...

I think Yanick Roy's analogy about World War I and II shouldn't be too closely analysed in terms of its relevance to the timeline question, especially when he went out of his way to point out that analogies are pretty flawed devices to get a point across.

Before reading that thread I'd forgotten his other points about taking the opportunity to rethink a few of the gameplay conventions from the ME trilogy, which is interesting - clearly the game won't play as a carbon copy of Shepard's style.

Yanick said: "the words prequel / midquel / sequel come loaded with a bunch of other assumptions that don't necessarily all apply to the next ME game", which I think refers to the gap between this game's story and Shepard's trilogy. It's nonsensical to describe a game set before Shepard as a prequel if its story has nothing at all to do with Shepard or any of the major plot arcs from that trilogy, apart from just happening to be set in the same universe. It might even be unhelpful to call something a prequel/midquel/sequel, in this case, because people could assume things like the presence of characters from Shepard's trilogy that might never actually be delivered in the game.

It may even be better if the BSN itself stopped using prequel/midquel/sequel, because that *does* seem to tie MEN too closely to Shepard's trilogy, but I can't think of any other term that succinctly describes "something that's chronologically set before/during/after something else in the same universe".

Very interesting post by Roy, didn't see that.  I agree that using prequel/midquel/sequel in this case does imply it will have a lot to do with the "previous" story arc being Shepards when it, as they are saying, doesn't. But it may and still can contain lore and "hints" from the events of ME 1 - 3. 

I personally hope for another trilogy and not 3 independent games set in the ME universe so we can get more appropriately attached once again to another hero and other side characters. But I wouldn't mind a garrus or other major side character spin off before the fully develop the next trilogy.

[EatChildren]

RE: development start date. It depends what you define as "start", because games dont suddenly enter production out of nothing. Early conceptualisation and pre-production work would have happened, I suspect, before Mass Effect 3 even shipped. And by this I mean Montreal would have very, very early talking about the simple fact they're making the next game. Though nothing concrete, remember that Montreal was built primarily with the goal of taking on the Mass Effect mantel. Throughout the development of Mass Effect 3, they'd always have in their mind that the next game would be theirs, even if they'd be doing DLC first.

The real question is: how much pre-production was completely before Omega launched?

It's not unreasonable to think Mass Effect Next is surprisingly further in development than some would think. Mass Effect 3 is almost eighteen months old, and by the end of the year it will have been three years since it was announced. It was over a year, about fifteen month, between CGI teaser announcement and retail release. If Montreal went head on into Mass Effect Next development and haven't hit a snag, I don't think a a CGI teaser at the end of this year (eg: VGA 2013) is totally out of the question, with a target release date of holiday 2014 or early 2015 (similar to ME3's date for that year).

Montreal has been active for quite some time, and Mass Effect Next is being built alongside Dragon Age: Inquisition, sharing toolsets and engine pipeline to ensure they don't have to start totally from scratch. By March 2015 Mas Effect 3 will be three years old, which relative to Mass Effect Next would actually be the longest wait between any two major Mass Effect projects.

I often hear the argument that BioWare is focusing on Dragon Age: Inquisition, and so it's not possible for Mass Effect Next to be in the limelight, and I don't buy it. BioWare is friggen huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge. They're a massive developer that has traditionally always had two-to-three projects in the works. The original Dragon Age launched only two months before Mass Effect 2, and the Awakening expansion pack hit shelves another two months later. There was a year between Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3, which isn't that long, and it was only a year because the latter got delayed, otherwise the two were projected to release within about eight months of each other. And this is in addition to The Old Republic, which launched three months before Mass Effect 3. I think it's also worth considering that Dragon Age: Inquisition probably would have been out sooner than Q3 2014 if the game hadn't been delayed and transferred to next generation systems on Frostbite 3, an engine it was not originally running on. Changes like that, even with much of the game intact, chew up a lot of time.

My ultimate point is that BioWare is a very, very big company that has traditionally worked on multiple big games alongside one another. I don't really buy into the belief that they're only able to work on Dragon Age: Inquisition in full capacity, while a company like Montreal was founded explicitely to handle Mass Effect Next while other parts of the company were busy on other projects. Though moving to a new generation and making a new direction for the series takes time, I also doubt EA and BioWare want to sit on a Mass Effect crockpot for too long. They'd want to get production rolling, while the series is still popular, otherwise (again) they wouldn't have founded a company like Montreal in the first place. What matters is when Montreal started pre-production and how much pre-production they completed when Mass Effect Next was formally announced. And given the time it takes to make games and Montreal's age, along with all the twitter buzz and goss, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe Mass Effect Next isn't a hundred year pipe-dream PR sometimes makes you believe.

NOTE: I know BW is also working on a new IP, but from the E3 buzz and general silence I'm under the belief that project is further away than both Mass Effect Next and Inquisition.

ElitePinecone wrote...

Yanick said: "the words prequel / midquel / sequel come loaded with a bunch of other assumptions that don't necessarily all apply to the next ME game", which I think refers to the gap between this game's story and Shepard's trilogy.

Indeed. As I said earlier, more than anything the BioWare Montreal team (and even Edmonton, where relevant) has stressed how the Shepard trilogy is over, and whatever the next Mass Effect is it will be something relatively self contained in narrative, themes, characters, and lore. I think some people here (and elswhere) are still tied to the belief that Mass Effect Next will use our trilogy save import, expand the lore around Shepard, return characters, and so on, but it really, truly wont.

The Shepard arc and everything about it has come to a close, and with Mass Effect Next the writers will be exploring a new  direction, and rightly so. This is what Yanick means by loaded assumptions. If we call Mass Effect Next a sequel/prequel/midquel we're imply direct continuity to the Shepard trilogy. It's obviously going to have some connection to the Mass Effect lore simply by being in the Mass Effect universe, but those tethers need not be strong. Mass Effect NExt will not be related to the Shepard arc, but instead it's own thing.

[The Hunter of Legends]

ElitePinecone wrote...

I think Yanick Roy's analogy about World War I and II shouldn't be too closely analysed in terms of its relevance to the timeline question, especially when he went out of his way to point out that analogies are pretty flawed devices to get a point across.

Before reading that thread I'd forgotten his other points about taking the opportunity to rethink a few of the gameplay conventions from the ME trilogy, which is interesting - clearly the game won't play as a carbon copy of Shepard's style.

Yanick said: "the words prequel / midquel / sequel come loaded with a bunch of other assumptions that don't necessarily all apply to the next ME game", which I think refers to the gap between this game's story and Shepard's trilogy. It's nonsensical to describe a game set before Shepard as a prequel if its story has nothing at all to do with Shepard or any of the major plot arcs from that trilogy, apart from just happening to be set in the same universe. It might even be unhelpful to call something a prequel/midquel/sequel, in this case, because people could assume things like the presence of characters from Shepard's trilogy that might never actually be delivered in the game.

It may even be better if the BSN itself stopped using prequel/midquel/sequel, because that *does* seem to tie MEN too closely to Shepard's trilogy, but I can't think of any other term that succinctly describes "something that's chronologically set before/during/after something else in the same universe".

It's kinda gonna be like the next Transformers series, set in the same universe as Prime but not necessarily a sequal even though it's to be set after the Prime storyline.

[mass perfection]

Will the next Mass Effect be on next gen consoles or an even later gen?

[Ajensis]

mass perfection wrote...

Will the next Mass Effect be on next gen consoles or an even later gen?

I think it's a bit complicated to develop for technology that doesn't exist yet plus, there's no point to plan that far ahead when the next generation will be around for who knows how many years.

[Arcian]

mass perfection wrote...

Will the next Mass Effect be on next gen consoles or an even later gen?

A generation lasts at least a good 5 years. Since the 8th gen started in November last year and ME4 definitely not having a 6 year dev cycle, it's not coming out in the 9th gen.

[aznjoez]

ME7 Confirmed on PS5... preordering now!

Modifié par aznjoez, 30 juillet 2013 - 01:36 .

[rapscallioness]

ElitePinecone wrote...

snip
[user]
@YanickRRoy Is it possible for ME4 to take place in the same time span as the ME trilogy? I think it would avoid many narratice issues!

Yanick Roy ‏@YanickRRoy
@[user] Possible? Yes. But we'll pick the timeline we think is the best, not necessarily the easiest. We have great writers :-)

Who are these writers? I heard Mac was back, and Anne LeMay, but Idk who else is on the writing team.

[Lieber]

I hope Patrick Weekes will come back.

[Arcian]

rapscallioness wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

snip
[user]
@YanickRRoy Is it possible for ME4 to take place in the same time span as the ME trilogy? I think it would avoid many narratice issues!

Yanick Roy ‏@YanickRRoy
@[user] Possible? Yes. But we'll pick the timeline we think is the best, not necessarily the easiest. We have great writers :-)

Who are these writers? I heard Mac was back, and Anne LeMay, but Idk who else is on the writing team.

If John Dombrow isn't back on the writing team, I'm probably not even going to borrow or even blackbeard the game.

That guy wrote pretty much every good part of ME3.

[rapscallioness]

Well, Weekes is working on DAI right now. Although, who knows how he might get juggled in the future?

I, too, like Dombrow. But is there a list somewhere of who's on the writing team? Didn't Casey say somewhere recently that the "core" team of the ME series was back and working on the new game? I'm assuming that also means lvl designers and whatnot.

I really would like to know what writers are working on this game, and what they've worked on before.

[chris2365]

Arcian wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

snip
[user]
@YanickRRoy Is it possible for ME4 to take place in the same time span as the ME trilogy? I think it would avoid many narratice issues!

Yanick Roy ‏@YanickRRoy
@[user] Possible? Yes. But we'll pick the timeline we think is the best, not necessarily the easiest. We have great writers :-)

Who are these writers? I heard Mac was back, and Anne LeMay, but Idk who else is on the writing team.

If John Dombrow isn't back on the writing team, I'm probably not even going to borrow or even blackbeard the game.

That guy wrote pretty much every good part of ME3.

Well, Weekes also wrote good segments (like Mordin), but he's moved on to Dragon Age: Inquisition. I wouldn't expect many writers from the trilogy to write the next ME, since they mostly come from Edmonton and are probably working on the new IP. Keeping a few writers with experience like Mac makes sense to ensure it follows lore and keeps it's identity as a Mass Effect game.

[ElitePinecone]

Jay Watamaniuk also writes for Mass Effect, he handled Miranda, Grunt and Ashley in ME3.

AFAIK they've also hired some new writers in Montreal, and there are others at Edmonton who have been writing for ME for ages but don't do much media and aren't as well known.

[Argentoid]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Sparbiter wrote...

In regards to that tweet.... Do we know when they started working on me3? like, how long was it from the time they started work, to out first bits of info, to release date in march? I'm trying to get a rough timeline on when we might get our first bit of information.

Maybe I'm wrong (This is very old stuff for me), but pre-production started right after the release of ME2.

BioWare Edmonton has been working for Mass Effect 3 since they somewhat announced it in CES 2010... so, my guess is that they started working on it by Winter 2009.

CES 2010: BioWare Talks Mass Effect 3

Modifié par Argentoid, 31 juillet 2013 - 02:20 .

[rapscallioness]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Jay Watamaniuk also writes for Mass Effect, he handled Miranda, Grunt and Ashley in ME3.

AFAIK they've also hired some new writers in Montreal, and there are others at Edmonton who have been writing for ME for ages but don't do much media and aren't as well known.

Ah, okay. Thnx, Elite.

Hmm, I'm gonna have to rummage around and Try to find out. Just so I have sum idea.