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The Mass Effect Andromeda Twitter Thread


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#23151
Awkward Octopus

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You know, these Twitter accounts are personal accounts. They're not Bioware marketing. They're normal people expressing thoughts about their days in 140 characters. Because that's how Twitter works. Yes, it's true, they're known Bioware employees and they have a lot of followers because of it, and sometimes they pass on really interesting tidbits and that's why these threads exist. 

 

But there's no need to get salty about people using their own personal social media accounts however they like. Those tweets have context to the people they're meant for.


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#23152
goishen

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The key difference between your example and our work here is that we are also customers, and we use the "product" in the context of "consumption" as well as development.
My personal approach to building missions, given the things that have to happen within a mission from a narrative, technical, and gameplay standpoint, what would be a cool thing to play, see, do in a mission? I play a ton of games. I see a ton of what other games do, and in playing with friends who don't do this for a living I get a pretty good sense of what people enjoy.

That aside, our peer review process exists for others to tell us where something is not good or fun or compelling, and where it happens people really aren't afraid to speak up about it.

And even that aside, we have people who play the game who aren't working on it in a level design capacity, and we all play games here. We're not developing a system that we don't see the end user experience of ourselves.

 

 

Just to play devil's advocate here...   

 

What happens when the entire staff is divided?  In other words, one part hates it, one part loves it?  50/50 split.  I completely understand if you can't answer, I'm just wondering.

 

EDIT :  Actually scratch that.   It was a dense question.   I'm thinking more of a Casey Hudson's quote about the naming of Mass Effect.  "Well, I don't hate it."  Just kind'a "meh". 

 

Ugh, so many edits.    



#23153
Hrungr

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Aaryn Flynn @AarynFlynn

March 11, 2016 - The day when I did NOT, in fact, break @tibermoon's heart!

 

Michael Gamble @GambleMike

I feel that this came at the expense of someone else's heart.

 

Barrett Rodych @ForgedPixels

This sounds like something a heart-breaker would say.



#23154
Gago

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Jennifer Hale and Mark Meer are down for an AMA!


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#23155
Lebanese Dude

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when you have to edit the text data file of a level to fix a level bug (-‸ლ)

 

o God this is just hell



#23156
ZipZap2000

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The key difference between your example and our work here is that we are also customers, and we use the "product" in the context of "consumption" as well as development.
My personal approach to building missions, given the things that have to happen within a mission from a narrative, technical, and gameplay standpoint, what would be a cool thing to play, see, do in a mission? I play a ton of games. I see a ton of what other games do, and in playing with friends who don't do this for a living I get a pretty good sense of what people enjoy.

That aside, our peer review process exists for others to tell us where something is not good or fun or compelling, and where it happens people really aren't afraid to speak up about it.

And even that aside, we have people who play the game who aren't working on it in a level design capacity, and we all play games here. We're not developing a system that we don't see the end user experience of ourselves.


Sounds like a solid working environment.

*sips happy sauce*

#23157
Sartoz

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The key difference between your example and our work here is that we are also customers, and we use the "product" in the context of "consumption" as well as development.
My personal approach to building missions, given the things that have to happen within a mission from a narrative, technical, and gameplay standpoint, what would be a cool thing to play, see, do in a mission? I play a ton of games. I see a ton of what other games do, and in playing with friends who don't do this for a living I get a pretty good sense of what people enjoy.

That aside, our peer review process exists for others to tell us where something is not good or fun or compelling, and where it happens people really aren't afraid to speak up about it.

And even that aside, we have people who play the game who aren't working on it in a level design capacity, and we all play games here. We're not developing a system that we don't see the end user experience of ourselves.

                                                                                        <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Thank you for the response.

Excellent clarification on how things are done/developed from a level design perspective.



#23158
kalikilic

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The key difference between your example and our work here is that we are also customers, and we use the "product" in the context of "consumption" as well as development.
My personal approach to building missions, given the things that have to happen within a mission from a narrative, technical, and gameplay standpoint, what would be a cool thing to play, see, do in a mission? I play a ton of games. I see a ton of what other games do, and in playing with friends who don't do this for a living I get a pretty good sense of what people enjoy.

That aside, our peer review process exists for others to tell us where something is not good or fun or compelling, and where it happens people really aren't afraid to speak up about it.

And even that aside, we have people who play the game who aren't working on it in a level design capacity, and we all play games here. We're not developing a system that we don't see the end user experience of ourselves.

You and, I think alot of us here, would understand of course, that we don't expect to hear anything different from you because, as a developer and like many other developers, this is what you will say, under any circumstance.

 

"as much as I'm a developer of the game, I'm a gamer also and I want it to be great." This is not the first time we've heard this and it won't be the last. I don't have any premise to insinuate that you aren't telling the truth; I doubt you'd be in a video game career if you didn't like to play the darn things.

 

But only a developer know his/her priorities. and only they know how their priorities have changed over the years.

 

a person can pursue a pharmacology career because she/he initially has such a passion to develop cures and medicine that can treat diseases and/or save lives. 20-30 years down the road and that passion is gone. Or maybe it hasnt. and in an indefinite situation such as the example i just stated you'd only really know if the passion is lost based on facts; real things that happen that can be quantified and qualified based on what was done and what was said.

 

When something has to be debated, you can only rely on facts. And in the case of company reputations in the videogame industry, its historical facts that the fanbase relies on. So when that forum member questions whether or not the developers are getting substantial, meaningful external feedback, you should consider what exactly is he drawing on from Bioware's history that would make him question that.

 

We all know the answer to that. and this basis is unforgettable. I can speculate that, had more "external feedback" been sought, we'd have less angry fans, less suspicious fans, less speculative fans, and generally, less fans questioning the company. prior to 2012 that would have been only speculation. based on what actually happened in 2012 though, it becomes much more than just speculation. with facts from 2012, it is one of a variety of viable and plausible explanations, for many things.

 

As stakeholders, as clients, we are more than qualified to exact such questioning. You are the business. We are the clients. Our feedback matters since we are the end users. It would be totally fine if the company developed the game only for the company employees to play.

 

That however, is not the case. Happy days.



#23159
CircusDragon

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^^

I'm completely confused.

Some people didn't like the ending to ME3 and suddenly Bioware is tanking and living in it's own fishbowl world with no contact or feedback from people outside? Or you don't agree with a design choice and they're suddenly not passionate anymore...?

People love and hate different things. You will NEVER completely satisfy every consumer. Get over yourself.

 

 

 

Let's get back to the light hearted teaser tweets that we hate to love :P

(where's that bird..?)


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#23160
pdusen

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snip.

I'm sure there's nothing a game developer enjoys more about participating in discussions with fans than passive-aggressive lectures about how they don't listen to enough consumer feedback from an outsider with no inkling of how much consumer feedback they actually listen to.

Bravo.
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#23161
goishen

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He must think fun is a fact. 

 

 

 

When something has to be debated, you can only rely on facts. And in the case of company reputations in the videogame industry, its historical facts that the fanbase relies on. So when that forum member questions whether or not the developers are getting substantial, meaningful external feedback, you should consider what exactly is he drawing on from Bioware's history that would make him question that.



#23162
Jos Hendriks

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Snip


I think your post suggests your take-away from my post was that we don't get external feedback. We do.

I'll let this topic meander back to its topic now, though, which is tweets.
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#23163
Altair_ShepardN7

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I think your post suggests your take-away from my post was that we don't get external feedback. We do.

I'll let this topic meander back to its topic now, though, which is tweets.

Quickly Jos, throw a random tweet so that we may get back on topic!! 


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#23164
Hrungr

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Michael Gamble @GambleMike

If you're going, have a wonderful GDC! San Francisco is beautiful, but most of us here will be in Andromeda ;)


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#23165
Beerfish

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^^

I'm completely confused.

Some people didn't like the ending to ME3 and suddenly Bioware is tanking and living in it's own fishbowl world with no contact or feedback from people outside? Or you don't agree with a design choice and they're suddenly not passionate anymore...?

People love and hate different things. You will NEVER completely satisfy every consumer. Get over yourself.

 

 

 

Let's get back to the light hearted teaser tweets that we hate to love :P

(where's that bird..?)

I find it 100% totally unfathomable that if they had wide ranging peer reviews on the endings within the company that at least some people did not come out and tell them it stunk to high heaven.  I also think the level of real critique and the amount of honesty from peers comes down to whose work is being reviewed.  Level designer A?  Yes probably some very good and critical reviews.  Casey Hudson and Mac Walters?  Well they were the big wigs and people that helped create two games that were smash hits for almost every one.

 

It's the same for just about every organization.  The bigger the boss the less critical the review process.


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#23166
ElitePinecone

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snip

 

By all accounts, if one believes the scuttlebutt, there was no review process for that part of ME3, at least when it came to the writers doing peer review. But even if that were the case in 2012, and Mac and Casey basically sat down and wrote that with no feedback, there's no way in hell something similar would happen in 2016.

 

Bioware devs have said multiple times in the last few years that the reaction to the endings motivated them to change some processes internally. I'm 100% sure that they've made changes specifically designed to stop that sort of thing happening again - perhaps things like brainstorming how fans would react to certain plot points, having playtesters give feedback on the story early under NDA, and allowing a more rigorous review process. Mike Gamble has said a couple of times now that one of his jobs on Andromeda is to look at things from the player's perspective and make sure that the game is on the right track. "Don't ****** off the players" was probably written in size 72 bright pink font on ME Andromeda's design document. To put it another way, I'm pretty sure Bioware were just as consumed with discussing the endings internally (and how it happened, and how to prevent it in the future) as we were externally. 

 

When we think about it, the ME3 situation was quite unprecedented when it comes to the games industry - who knew it would be as big of an issue as it was? I'm not excusing the developers for what happened, but I don't think anyone could've imagined that the feedback would be as passionate (and angry, and loud, etc) as it was. The silver lining, I suppose, is that everyone involved will know what not to do next time. One could suggest that Casey and Mac wildly missed the mark in terms of writing a satisfying, coherent, plausible and understandable finale (I do), but this was, after all, the first time anybody had made a trilogy of interconnected stories with as much personal investment as players gave the Mass Effect universe. 

 

tl;dr - I think that now they get heaps of internal and external feedback, and a lot of the push to get that feedback probably came from being blindsided by the anger over ME3.


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#23167
Hrungr

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Barrett Rodych @ForgedPixels

"So this thing you did-it has no core tech setup so it's not working"

"But it never had it and was working before..how??"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ #QACurse


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#23168
chris2365

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By all accounts, if one believes the scuttlebutt, there was no review process for that part of ME3, at least when it came to the writers doing peer review. But even if that were the case in 2012, and Mac and Casey basically sat down and wrote that with no feedback, there's no way in hell something similar would happen in 2016.

Bioware devs have said multiple times in the last few years that the reaction to the endings motivated them to change some processes internally. I'm 100% sure that they've made changes specifically designed to stop that sort of thing happening again - perhaps things like brainstorming how fans would react to certain plot points, having playtesters give feedback on the story early under NDA, and allowing a more rigorous review process. Mike Gamble has said a couple of times now that one of his jobs on Andromeda is to look at things from the player's perspective and make sure that the game is on the right track. "Don't ****** off the players" was probably written in size 72 bright pink font on ME Andromeda's design document. To put it another way, I'm pretty sure Bioware were just as consumed with discussing the endings internally (and how it happened, and how to prevent it in the future) as we were externally.

When we think about it, the ME3 situation was quite unprecedented when it comes to the games industry - who knew it would be as big of an issue as it was? I'm not excusing the developers for what happened, but I don't think anyone could've imagined that the feedback would be as passionate (and angry, and loud, etc) as it was. The silver lining, I suppose, is that everyone involved will know what not to do next time. One could suggest that Casey and Mac wildly missed the mark in terms of writing a satisfying, coherent, plausible and understandable finale (I do), but this was, after all, the first time anybody had made a trilogy of interconnected stories with as much personal investment as players gave the Mass Effect universe.

tl;dr - I think that now they get heaps of internal and external feedback, and a lot of the push to get that feedback probably came from being blindsided by the anger over ME3.


Perfectly agree with all of this. And the worst part is that the idea of the ending in itself wasn't bad. It just lacked execution and proper reviewing.
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#23169
Hrungr

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Jess Hara Campbell @jharacampbell

When you lose your hat at work, and your office happens to be a game studio #biowarelostandfound

 

CdhffipUYAAosPU.jpg
 
 

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#23170
Jewellzify

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https://twitter.com/...458494206910466

 

Just noticed on Mike Laidlaw's Twitter feed that they have a new assistant writer joining them in Edmonton! Not sure if she will be working on Andromeda at all, but thought I would share regardless :D


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#23171
Chroptus

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Its crazy to think that ive almost stalked this thread for 927 pages. Lets hope for some cool news at 1000.


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#23172
SimonTheFrog

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snip

 

Well... hearing angry fans is one thing, making sense of the cacophony is something different entirely. It's easy to only see and hear what you want to hear. On both sides of the story. In 2014 Mac Walters used the N7 round-table to once again remind everyone that one of the (or THE? it's the only one he mentions) central themes of the trilogy was organics vs synthetics (link to youtube), which to me sounds like self-assurance. Like a late: "this is why you guys were all wrong back then".

I didn't get the impression back in that time that there was an awareness as to why this all happened as it did. Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't. BioWare, as a whole, didn't acknowledge much. And the leads, the responsible ones, certainly did nothing that would re-assure me that it really has sunk in.

 

Btw a reminder: this wasn't "some people" that didn't like what happened. This was a very significant portion of the audience.

 

Anyhow, i like the focus on exploration as far as we can tell, i like the enthusiasm of the devs, which is why i keep lurking around here. I do like to hear that "internal processes" have been adapted. But I'm 100% unsure what that really means!? Like i said, I didn't get to see acknowledgement, only silence for years. So, yes, I'd be silly not to be very sceptical.


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#23173
ElitePinecone

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I think they may start talking about it a bit more when the interviews and marketing for Andromeda start properly. To some extent it's also probably easier now that four years have passed and one of the prominent people involved has left the company. 

 

It's also pretty natural for someone to want to defend their own work, so of course Mac would want to downplay the criticism that the themes of the endings came out of nowhere. I don't think that necessarily means nothing changed internally - especially if the processes that did change will allow other writers to give feedback on that sort of stuff in the future. 

 

https://twitter.com/...458494206910466

 

Just noticed on Mike Laidlaw's Twitter feed that they have a new assistant writer joining them in Edmonton! Not sure if she will be working on Andromeda at all, but thought I would share regardless :D

 

Sam Maggs also wrote this article "What we want from Mass Effect Andromeda" back in August 2015  :P

 

http://www.pcgamer.c...fect-andromeda/


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#23174
NKnight7

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Its crazy to think that ive almost stalked this thread for 927 pages. Lets hope for some cool news at 1000.

 

If not news I'm sure there will be some type of celebration. Either way, something to look forward to.



#23175
Andrew Lucas

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Shut it about the endings, no one cares anymore.