169 réponses à ce sujet

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

The human adepts are the worst adepts. Which is why people seldom use them after unlocking other adepts. Until singularity and shockwave are improved they will remain at the bottom of the adept family. Singularity-Shockwave-warp is clearly inferior to Stasis-Throw-Warp and to Reave-Pull-Cluster Bomb. There is really no contest.

I'm even liking Singularity-Lash-Smash over the original human adept.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 10 juin 2012 - 02:47 .

[zhk3r]

Aplin wrote...

*snip*

You missed the point of the video. There's no need to re-cast Singularity 20 times. You do it once, shoot their shields down and Shockwave for a 'splosion. It was purely done to show it can be done, nothing more. I don't care what the general consensus might be regarding the Human Adept. You say the AA brings more to the table and is more effective - that totally depends on the player. "Score doesn't matter" < - - I'll still outscore any AA in my lobby with the HA. So your argument is relatively redundant. I play better with the HA than I do AA because I'm more comfortable with him and his skillset. "Oh but Stasis and Throw!" - Both good abilities, but I perform better with Singularity and Shockwave.

[molecularman]

xROLLxTIDEx wrote...

For molecularman..

Warp/shockwave = BE + 115%
Warp/throw = BE + 100%
Reave has no BE multiplyer.

Care to prove me wrong here?

Yeah

+15% dmg is not really an advantage when your BE cycles take some 35% longer.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

^ once again, I give you a fact and you respond with an opinion.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Shockwave is only a 10 meter range if you chose the biotic explosion evolution. Doesn't get much better (15meters) with the range evolution. Human adepts are squishy. Such a short range detonator is not really a good idea.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 10 juin 2012 - 02:50 .

[zhk3r]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

The human adepts are the worst adepts. Which is why people seldom use them after unlocking other adepts. Until singularity and shockwave are improved they will remain at the bottom of the adept family. Singularity-Shockwave-warp is clearly inferior to Stasis-Throw-Warp and to Reave-Pull-Cluster Bomb. There is really no contest.

I'm even liking Singularity-Lash-Smash over the original human adept.

Have fun blowing up 

> Banshees.
> Atlas'
> Primes
> Brutes
> Pyros

with those skills, bro =D

EDIT: Human Adepts are squishy? The Phoenix are even squishier with their broken shield/health gate.

Modifié par zhk3r, 10 juin 2012 - 02:49 .

[molecularman]

xROLLxTIDEx wrote...

^ once again, I give you a fact and you respond with an opinion.

I'm pretty sure it's a fact that shockwave's cooldown is bigger than throw's. Bashing my solid facts as "opinions" isn't the most great argument either.

Sorry, but I just can't help feeling wrong when somebody calls HA the best adept


@zhk3r : AFAIK, fitness on cerb characters works just fine. According to the latest evidence, that is.

Modifié par molecularman, 10 juin 2012 - 02:51 .

[MrScottBear]

zhk3r wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

The human adepts are the worst adepts. Which is why people seldom use them after unlocking other adepts. Until singularity and shockwave are improved they will remain at the bottom of the adept family. Singularity-Shockwave-warp is clearly inferior to Stasis-Throw-Warp and to Reave-Pull-Cluster Bomb. There is really no contest.

I'm even liking Singularity-Lash-Smash over the original human adept.

Have fun blowing up 

> Banshees.
> Atlas'
> Primes
> Brutes
> Pyros

with those skills, bro =D

EDIT: Human Adepts are squishy? The Phoenix are even squishier with their broken shield/health gate.

Pretty sure the Phoenix Fitness tree ended up being our imaginations due to the slooow powers.  

Anyway.  Honey, I like the human Adept.  Shockwaving a brute's skull in is incredibly fun, but....Reave + Cluster Grenade will wreck any of those far better than a human Adpet.

[zhk3r]

molecularman wrote...

I'm pretty sure it's a fact that shockwave's cooldown is bigger than throw's. Bashing my solid facts as "opinions" isn't the most great argument either.

Sorry, but I just can't help feeling wrong when somebody calls HA the best adept

@zhk3r : AFAIK, fitness on cerb characters works just fine. According to the latest evidence, that is.

The title is to draw you in. And it worked, obviously. 

Fitness works. That doesn't mean the shield/health gate isn't broken. A character with 800/800 isn't supposed to die from a Ravager breaking it's sack - The Phoenix Vanguard does.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Calling any class better than another class is a matter of opinion. Even if the majority holds the same opinion, it doesnt make it fact.

Which is better? faster? Killing an enemy with 1 warp/shockwave or 2 warp/throw cycles?

Here's a kicker... There is no definitive factual answer. It is whichever you prefer, your opinion man.

[zhk3r]

MrScottBear wrote...

Pretty sure the Phoenix Fitness tree ended up being our imaginations due to the slooow powers.  

Anyway.  Honey, I like the human Adept.  Shockwaving a brute's skull in is incredibly fun, but....Reave + Cluster Grenade will wreck any of those far better than a human Adpet.

Yes, and Cloak + Arc Grenades will wreck Reave + Cluster Grenades .. Comparing combos like that isn't viable, IMO. Of course grenades are better than any actual ability - They're grenades! 

[D.Shepard]

Just a quick question:
I don't have a Talon X, mine is just III, what weapon do you suggest for the Human Adept?

[molecularman]

zhk3r wrote...

The title is to draw you in. And it worked, obviously. 

Fitness works. That doesn't mean the shield/health gate isn't broken. A character with 800/800 isn't supposed to die from a Ravager breaking it's sack - The Phoenix Vanguard does.

I'm not really the expert on those cerberus people as I stopped playing them a long while ago, so yeah. To be honest, I kinda felt something was a bit off so I won't say anything else about that.

I've watched most of that vid earlier but when people here started praising human adepts a bit too much, I couldn't help myself

@xROLLxTIDEx : Keep it real, still. This is not the most balanced game and some classes are better than others. I doubt you'd disagree about krogan soldier being worse than geth infiltrator, efficiency-wise. The same thing applies to all classes, there isn't perfect balance.

Modifié par molecularman, 10 juin 2012 - 03:00 .

[zhk3r]

D.Shepard wrote...

Just a quick question:
I don't have a Talon X, mine is just III, what weapon do you suggest for the Human Adept?

Carnifex/Paladin
Scimitar/Katana
Hornet/Hurricane

[zhk3r]

molecularman wrote...

I'm not really the expert on those cerberus people as I stopped playing them a long while ago, so yeah. To be honest, I kinda felt something was a bit off so I won't say anything else about that.

I've watched most of that vid earlier but when people here started praising human adepts a bit too much, I couldn't help myself

I put them down myself. I'm sick of swarmers and Ravager goo being the biggest threat on the map. It's good people are praising them. They've been called the sh*ttiest class in the game for far too long. Just because Humans don't have a skillset that screams "SCRUB!" like the Asari does, does not make it a bad class.

[D.Shepard]

zhk3r wrote...

D.Shepard wrote...

Just a quick question:
I don't have a Talon X, mine is just III, what weapon do you suggest for the Human Adept?

Carnifex/Paladin
Scimitar/Katana
Hornet/Hurricane

Thanks. Which is the optimal CD bonus? Should I look for a neat +200%, like I always do on biotic classes, or trading few "points" for a better gun is acceptable?

[zhk3r]

D.Shepard wrote...

Thanks. Which is the optimal CD bonus? Should I look for a neat +200%, like I always do on biotic classes, or trading few "points" for a better gun is acceptable?

Try to keep your CD above 170 % - Works out good, for me at least.

[molecularman]

zhk3r wrote...

I put them down myself. I'm sick of swarmers and Ravager goo being the biggest threat on the map. It's good people are praising them. They've been called the sh*ttiest class in the game for far too long. Just because Humans don't have a skillset that screams "SCRUB!" like the Asari does, does not make it a bad class.

Well, definitely not a bad class, I never even said that. I'd always take a HA over 2 AAs with identical power sets in any all-biotic team.

[Diablerist666]

He doesn't need to recast Singularity, he's just playing around. Unless the Marauder dodges the initial projectile he'll be stuck there for up to 25 seconds. They can sometimes attempt to dodge out of it after about 5-8 seconds. Seem to happen less often if you have Expand.

Aplin wrote...

Speaking of multiples, you may find HA more usable when playing with just one friend, as you don't have many spawns, and hence, can fight 1vs1 quite often, stunlocking them and looking at their stun animation. When you play in the whole team of 4, there are way more mobs, and:
a) the problem above, with inability to shoot in between casts, becomes more serious than ever
stunlocking one target with Singularity does no good, as another 6 (or 9?) are approaching you steadily, and have to be dealt with.

Getting back to the point of my post a page ago: can you play HA at all? Yes, of course. Can you be more useful for the team as HA compared to AA? No, you can't. (NB! I didn't say you will be useless, I said that bringing AA would be better for the team) So the title of the thread is, let's say, "not precisely correct", as it's based on a wrong assumption.

Lolwut? It doesn't matter how many people are in the game. You get the same amount of enemies. I got no problem shooting inbetween casts.
I'm gonna repeat something I wrote a couple of weeks ago: never ever have I been outscored or outperformed by an AA or HSent against Reapers on any map. Geth is probably a tie, I rarely play them. Cerberus, a decent player will probably perform better because of Phantoms. I can still do fine by taking GPS or the Falcon.

[StarStruck010]

Personally, I find the human adept to be the worst adept because of the high skillcap, followed closely by the pheonix. It really doesn't take much skill to go warp-throw-throw, and the only two skills the drell needs to learn are "don't miss with grenades" and "don't get shot you squishy drell".

Setup with warp, detonate with shockwave means you have to be close and aim. And that is difficult and dangerous with most squishies. I think singularity needs some love (like make its damage cause a rank1 biotic effect that can be detonated to remove shields).

Edit: also, as always thanks for the video and advice Zhk. It's always good to see people trying to help the community learn to be effective.

Modifié par StarStruck010, 10 juin 2012 - 04:35 .

[vironblood]

Generally speaking, the HA is ok and doesn't deserve it's current reputation. However the CQ style enforced by Shockwave requires esoteric gameplay. Zhhk and Diablerist are more than adept at CQC (pun intended).

Looking at the other Adepts, the HA is unpopular because:
- AA is more versatile and easier to use
- DA has a huge damage spike
- offensive AJ might have similar gameplay but the increased survivability is less taxing on the player's skill

HA excels when used against Reapers and on CQC maps (Glacier being the pinnacle). Everything goes downhill from here.

Zhhk I hope you continue the "How to play <race/class>" videos, you should have quite a few candidates for them.

[genomandril]

I'm rediscovering singularity since letting it at 3 from the beginning. It's like redicosvering *long time forgotten* parts of the body. Playing with phantoms has never been funnier. Thank you, for some reason I would never have thought of this.

Definitely, one of the most rewarding classes.

[Aplin]

zhk3r wrote...

Aplin wrote...
*snip*

You missed the point of the video. ... ... I don't care what the general consensus might be regarding the Human Adept. ... ... "Score doesn't matter" < - - I'll still outscore any AA in my lobby with the HA. ... ... I play better with the HA than I do AA because I'm more comfortable with him and his skillset. "Oh but Stasis and Throw!" - Both good abilities, but I perform better with Singularity and Shockwave.

[... ... are in place of omitted statements, if you think they add to the topic below, please let me know and I will quote the whole post]

That's all cool, and I can fine/agree with every point:
- "you don't care what the consensus is" - that's your right
- "you outscore every AA adept in your lobbies" - good, do it!
- "you play better with HA because you are more comfortable with it" - good, play with it then, noone forces you to play AA.
- "you perform better with 
Singularity and Shockwave" - good to know, keep up a good work.

The only thing I don't understand is why after all of that you call the thread "Why is the Human Adept the best Adept?". It should've been called "Human Adept is the best adept for zhk3r" or "
zhk3r plays best with Human Adept". These could be facts, you can show how do you do that - and everyone's happy. [or even call it "playing effectively with HA" - and how how to do that, disregarding race selection] However, you decided to generalize your experience to the whole community. This is a very bold move, and thread's subject is very bold statement. Yes, we read that you "don't care what the general consensus might be", but please avoid false generalizations, it doesn't make you a favor. It just confuses and misleads casual players like me and others who read these forums. Misleading, and false generalizations are things which I dislike here, while I'm quite happy that someone (you) have a good experience doing whatever they (you) do [playing HA in ME3 in this case].


As an example, I remember here was a post from two lvl1 Krogan Soldiers who have done Gold Reapers run together. Their point that it was doable, and that krogans are playable. They have shown that it's true. And they have shown that skill means more than the choice of class, or race, for example. It really is true (monkeys won't beat reapers even with HA). But (as far as I read them) they never tried to generalize that "Krogans are the best race" or "Krogans >> all" or anything like that. Don't mislead, clearly separate personal experience and facts, and you will be very welcome, even by old and grumpy dudes like me.

[Kenadian]

I would think you'd have fun with the Phoenix classes if you like being up close. Smash and Charge.

[zhk3r]

Aplin wrote...

[... ... are in place of omitted statements, if you think they add to the topic below, please let me know and I will quote the whole post]

That's all cool, and I can fine/agree with every point:
- "you don't care what the consensus is" - that's your right
- "you outscore every AA adept in your lobbies" - good, do it!
- "you play better with HA because you are more comfortable with it" - good, play with it then, noone forces you to play AA.
- "you perform better with 
Singularity and Shockwave" - good to know, keep up a good work.

The only thing I don't understand is why after all of that you call the thread "Why is the Human Adept the best Adept?". It should've been called "Human Adept is the best adept for zhk3r" or "
zhk3r plays best with Human Adept". These could be facts, you can show how do you do that - and everyone's happy. [or even call it "playing effectively with HA" - and how how to do that, disregarding race selection] However, you decided to generalize your experience to the whole community. This is a very bold move, and thread's subject is very bold statement. Yes, we read that you "don't care what the general consensus might be", but please avoid false generalizations, it doesn't make you a favor. It just confuses and misleads casual players like me and others who read these forums. Misleading, and false generalizations are things which I dislike here, while I'm quite happy that someone (you) have a good experience doing whatever they (you) do [playing HA in ME3 in this case].

As an example, I remember here was a post from two lvl1 Krogan Soldiers who have done Gold Reapers run together. Their point that it was doable, and that krogans are playable. They have shown that it's true. And they have shown that skill means more than the choice of class, or race, for example. It really is true (monkeys won't beat reapers even with HA). But (as far as I read them) they never tried to generalize that "Krogans are the best race" or "Krogans >> all" or anything like that. Don't mislead, clearly separate personal experience and facts, and you will be very welcome, even by old and grumpy dudes like me.

The title of the topic is simply to draw you in. The thread text is rather sarcastic also. 

You can't possibly say one class is better than another because it's all based on personal experience. Saying that a team benefits more from having an Asari Adept than having a Human Adept depends on the player. The actual skillset is pretty much redundant if the player is bad. But if the player has a good handle on the class he/she is playing it won't matter if it's a close or long range class. It's not false generalization - It's personal taste. If you deem this false generalization you might as well go and add your two cents to any thread not Infiltrator specific because all classes are "bad", "lacking" and "slow" compared to the Infiltrator.

You can generalize the classes and skillsets all you want. Saying that Stasis, Warp and Throw is a better combination of skills than Singularity, Warp and Shockwave is. Hell, 90 % of the forum could agree on it. But it wouldn't make it true simply because every class caters to different types of players. If all of us were the same, there'd be 

> Claymore Infiltrator
> Widow/BW Infiltrator.
> Carnifex Asari Adepts

all around. You wouldn't rarely see anything else. And as for your problem with the thread title; Just leave the thread if it wasn't what you expected. It's not like reading the six lines of text took more time out of your life than your two replies that would be considered an essay on a college level. That said; At least 50 % of the threads you enter aren't what you expected. This one might have hurt some of the members of the forum because the Human Adept is without a doubt the most hated class in the game. 

Modifié par zhk3r, 11 juin 2012 - 12:23 .