Aller au contenu

Photo

I hope DA3 will have multiplayer


154 réponses à ce sujet

#26
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 284 messages

Ihatebadgames wrote...

Hi Allan, just a vote for NO multiplayer in the single player game.How about a nice multiplayer DLC or expansion that people who want it can buy and enjoy?I've very little trust for BioWares statements of what is and is not in the game at this point.Since I'm on the 360 I don't really trust the patchs at this point.I do think BioWare mhas made some fantastic game in the past.Image IPBOtherwise why would I play them?


A MP DLC or expansion would be acceptable.  As long as it's something I could totally ignore while those who might want it could download it themselves.

But like I said waaaaaay back before ME3 was released "If I have to install it, it's not optional enough" :D

Modifié par iakus, 09 juin 2012 - 11:49 .


#27
robertthebard

robertthebard
  • Members
  • 6 108 messages
MP similar to what was done in NWN's yes. Which means, as somebody above mentioned, we'd need a toolset. That could be fun, and extend the life of the product a bit, I'd expect. I played, scripted lightly, and built in NWN's long after the campaigns were shelved. It would especially be appealing to me if I could build w/out cutscene dialogs for shops, etc. as was done in NWN's 2, even though after building a few areas, and goofing off with a few side projects, I never really got into it as much as the original, which was too bad, really, considering how much better areas could look. I never did have much luck with the DA: O toolset, but hey, I'd mess with it sometimes.

#28
MKDAWUSS

MKDAWUSS
  • Members
  • 3 416 messages
If we're talking about PVP MP, how exactly would this work? This side is Mages, this side is Templars? That is, if that's the storyline that's central in DA3. Will we create a generic mage or templar and pick and plug their talents and spells, or just all run around as one of a few carbon-copy, cookie-cutter presets?

#29
wsandista

wsandista
  • Members
  • 2 723 messages
Focus on SP first. Worry about multiplayer once SP is complete.

#30
Cyne

Cyne
  • Members
  • 872 messages

jbrand2002uk wrote...

As far as I'm concerned MP has no place in an RPG, that the territory of an MMO and never the twain should meet


Agreed. No multiplayer in dragon age please. If it has to be there, I hope it doesn't take away from the single player experience.

Modifié par Cyne, 10 juin 2012 - 01:13 .


#31
schalafi

schalafi
  • Members
  • 1 167 messages
Just hearing the word "multiplayer" associated with the DA franchise makes my hair stand on end!

#32
mr_luga

mr_luga
  • Members
  • 666 messages
It would suck balls if it does. ME3 multiplayer was retarded -.- It's such a waste of resources that could get spent into making an epic single player. Bioware is getting left behind here with CD Red project picking up the slack.

#33
Jackums

Jackums
  • Members
  • 1 479 messages
PvP, pl0x.

#34
Raydiva

Raydiva
  • Members
  • 127 messages
No, just no. No multi-player, no co-op, etc. That is just resources (money, time, man hours, etc) wasted that should be spent on the single player RPG story and its ending.

If you want to play a multi-player game with a fantasy like setting, get a MMORPG (ie WoW or Guild Wars 2).

#35
AstraDrakkar

AstraDrakkar
  • Members
  • 1 116 messages
No. No, and NO! Absolutely and positively NO multiplayer cr%p!

Modifié par AstraDrakkar, 10 juin 2012 - 09:06 .


#36
AmstradHero

AmstradHero
  • Members
  • 1 239 messages
I have to confess that I don't understand the desire to put multiplayer into ME3 or DA3. As far as I can see, it's a conflict of design ideals.

On one hand. you've got an ongoing, complex narrative that is (possibly) providing meaningful choices and consequences presented as a cohesive narrative and cinematic experience. BioWare have been increasingly moving toward a more cinematic presentation to augment their traditional narrative.

On the other hand, we have multiplayer. From the few rumours voiced about multiplayer in DA3, it seemed to follow the same concept as ME3 - a standalone arena, with purely combat based gameplay. This lacks any story, choices, consequences, or any narrative, cinematic or otherwise.

The choices, consequences and cinematics, along with the choice of a single voiced protagonist, have made the inclusion of on-going co-operative play a la Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights undesirable. Players don't want to be Hawke's nameless, mute sidekick as she/he is caught up in Kirkwall's strife. Same goes for playing Shepard's protege.

This means that whenever players cry "we want multiplayer", the only choice is for developers/designers to take the existing ruleset and shovel it into a standalone experience. Typically, BioWare's mechanics haven't been balanced for PvP, which means that's off the table. This means the only choice is a PvE experience, and given that it has to fit into budget contraints and timeframe of the single player game (which is the "main" drawcard), it will be small in scope by necessity.  It's a single AAA title, and thus has the budget of one. Putting resources into one takes away resources that would be used for the other. That's simple business.

Yes, you can say "but ME3's MP was done by a different team", but it won't change the facts. A game sells for a set price. The money put into any given game will have a set budget because it needs to sell enough copies to turn a profit. Resources/money put into one aspect (SP or MP) will be taken out of the budget allocated to the title as a whole.

ME3's main sin with it's multiplayer is effectively requiring players to play multiplayer to achieve the game's "optimal" ending. I'm glad that DA's dev team recognise this, but that doesn't excuse the mistake of ME3.

The core problem is that a story driven cinematic single player experience and a "game-based" pure gameplay multiplayer experience don't fit well together. It's an attempt to get different player sets to buy one game, and is likely to not deliver sufficiently to either group. Yes, there is going to be some overlap in the audiences, but I know more than a few people that would have never touched ME3's multiplayer had they not needed it in order to get the best ending.

If the producers/publishers demand that multiplayer be included (and I only say that because of EA's policy that "every game will have multiplayer"), then sell it as a separate product for a substantially reduced price. Sure, piggyback on the engine and assets of the core game, but don't include as part of the same game. This will serve not to alienate fans of the single player experience, and let's be honest, when we're talking about BioWare, that is the core and dedicated audience.

Spend a little longer on making gameplay with a little more depth, and release an associated multiplayer game. Offer a voucher to people who bought the "core" game to reduce the price. So, DA3 sells for $50-60. DA3: Arena sells for $20, but $10 if you bought DA3. A reward to players, if you will. People spend $20 on map packs for Call of Duty, so $10-20 for a multiplayer game (even one a little more shallow) would be fairly palatable for most people.

If such a multiplayer experience doesn't sell, then this either says:
a) This isn't a viable market, (i.e people buy BioWare games for story/narrative) or;
B) The product isn't good enough.

Shoehorning a conflicting multiplayer experience into a singleplayer game isn't satisfying for the consumer. Don't attempt to appeal to everyone with a single product by adding in popular gameplay elements from everywhere.  If you do that... you end up with Darksiders. Its attempts to cater to everyone detracted from the game rather than adding to it.

TLDR
BioWare's cinematic singleplayer and isolated multiplayer don't fit together.

Sell multiplayer as a separate product for a reduced price ($10-20), preferably with a price reduction for those who bought the single player game.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 10 juin 2012 - 09:17 .


#37
KDD-0063

KDD-0063
  • Members
  • 544 messages

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If multiplayer is included, which I don't really have a problem with, please don't make it necessary to play to get a certain ending (good or bad).


IMO, for the record I'm 99.9999% sure that the ME3 issue wasn't actually intended (not that that excuses it. It sucks and I do sympathize) and is actually a bug.

Regardless, I do know for a fact that it's something we're very aware of on the DA team and we understand that it was frustrating for fans. If any sort of multiplayer does manifest, I would be very surprised if it had a tie back into the single player experience.


It's not about intended or not. The difference of playing MP or not on SP is too huge, MP decides if getting to a certain ending is ridiculously easy or impossibly difficult. Now if it is a bug, just add 'near' before impossible, which doesn't really make much of a difference.

Maybe if MP has a limited influence is fine, such as it can replace a few side quests, or giving a chance for people who really screwed up in previous games to grind up, not a huge difference like 50% vs 100%.

In fact it's better for MP to not affect SP at all. Your decisions being represented by a number already cheapens everything. MP is fine, it's cool but it's for people who like to play MP.

Modifié par KDD-0063, 10 juin 2012 - 10:04 .


#38
Midnightpain

Midnightpain
  • Members
  • 23 messages
mission co-op only and online horde style play sandbox

NO to mmo.. kills the rpg

thread over

#39
KDD-0063

KDD-0063
  • Members
  • 544 messages

AmstradHero wrote...

I have to confess that I don't understand the desire to put multiplayer into ME3 or DA3. As far as I can see, it's a conflict of design ideals.

On one hand. you've got an ongoing, complex narrative that is (possibly) providing meaningful choices and consequences presented as a cohesive narrative and cinematic experience. BioWare have been increasingly moving toward a more cinematic presentation to augment their traditional narrative.

On the other hand, we have multiplayer. From the few rumours voiced about multiplayer in DA3, it seemed to follow the same concept as ME3 - a standalone arena, with purely combat based gameplay. This lacks any story, choices, consequences, or any narrative, cinematic or otherwise.

The choices, consequences and cinematics, along with the choice of a single voiced protagonist, have made the inclusion of on-going co-operative play a la Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights undesirable. Players don't want to be Hawke's nameless, mute sidekick as she/he is caught up in Kirkwall's strife. Same goes for playing Shepard's protege.

This means that whenever players cry "we want multiplayer", the only choice is for developers/designers to take the existing ruleset and shovel it into a standalone experience. Typically, BioWare's mechanics haven't been balanced for PvP, which means that's off the table. This means the only choice is a PvE experience, and given that it has to fit into budget contraints and timeframe of the single player game (which is the "main" drawcard), it will be small in scope by necessity.  It's a single AAA title, and thus has the budget of one. Putting resources into one takes away resources that would be used for the other. That's simple business.

Yes, you can say "but ME3's MP was done by a different team", but it won't change the facts. A game sells for a set price. The money put into any given game will have a set budget because it needs to sell enough copies to turn a profit. Resources/money put into one aspect (SP or MP) will be taken out of the budget allocated to the title as a whole.

ME3's main sin with it's multiplayer is effectively requiring players to play multiplayer to achieve the game's "optimal" ending. I'm glad that DA's dev team recognise this, but that doesn't excuse the mistake of ME3.

The core problem is that a story driven cinematic single player experience and a "game-based" pure gameplay multiplayer experience don't fit well together. It's an attempt to get different player sets to buy one game, and is likely to not deliver sufficiently to either group. Yes, there is going to be some overlap in the audiences, but I know more than a few people that would have never touched ME3's multiplayer had they not needed it in order to get the best ending.

If the producers/publishers demand that multiplayer be included (and I only say that because of EA's policy that "every game will have multiplayer"), then sell it as a separate product for a substantially reduced price. Sure, piggyback on the engine and assets of the core game, but don't include as part of the same game. This will serve not to alienate fans of the single player experience, and let's be honest, when we're talking about BioWare, that is the core and dedicated audience.

Spend a little longer on making gameplay with a little more depth, and release an associated multiplayer game. Offer a voucher to people who bought the "core" game to reduce the price. So, DA3 sells for $50-60. DA3: Arena sells for $20, but $10 if you bought DA3. A reward to players, if you will. People spend $20 on map packs for Call of Duty, so $10-20 for a multiplayer game (even one a little more shallow) would be fairly palatable for most people.

If such a multiplayer experience doesn't sell, then this either says:
a) This isn't a viable market, (i.e people buy BioWare games for story/narrative) or;
B) The product isn't good enough.

Shoehorning a conflicting multiplayer experience into a singleplayer game isn't satisfying for the consumer. Don't attempt to appeal to everyone with a single product by adding in popular gameplay elements from everywhere.  If you do that... you end up with Darksiders. Its attempts to cater to everyone detracted from the game rather than adding to it.

TLDR
BioWare's cinematic singleplayer and isolated multiplayer don't fit together.

Sell multiplayer as a separate product for a reduced price ($10-20), preferably with a price reduction for those who bought the single player game.


ME3's MP is okay because the previous story is built up to a point: we are fighting an all out war with the reaper forces. A horde mode MP makes sense because there's conflict with the reaper forces breaking out everywhere on the galaxy all the time.

DA3...I don't think horde mode MP will fit at all. DA world attracts with its rich lore, political conflicts and etc. There is little room for such a mode unless there's another blight, which, judging from DA3's setting isn't really likely to happen.

#40
FaWa

FaWa
  • Members
  • 1 288 messages

jbrand2002uk wrote...

As far as I'm concerned MP has no place in an RPG, that the territory of an MMO and never the twain should meet


As much as I hate everything this man has to say 99% of the time, he is correct here. 

#41
FieryDove

FieryDove
  • Members
  • 2 634 messages

KDD-0063 wrote...


ME3's MP is okay because the previous story is built up to a point: we are fighting an all out war with the reaper forces. A horde mode MP makes sense because there's conflict with the reaper forces breaking out everywhere on the galaxy all the time.

DA3...I don't think horde mode MP will fit at all. DA world attracts with its rich lore, political conflicts and etc. There is little room for such a mode unless there's another blight, which, judging from DA3's setting isn't really likely to happen.


I disagree on ME3. IF I wanted to play MP I would play Sheploo not grunt #433. Not to mention the *bug* hasn't been patched does not endear me to MP in any form. Blarg

I can see MP working in DA3. Hawke vs THE Warden vs DA3 new Protag. Let's take bets now who would win. Image IPB

#42
Reznore57

Reznore57
  • Members
  • 6 144 messages
I like ME3 multiplayer , but i don't feel like it has anything to do with ME3 solo game.
I could have live without , and when i see ME3 , I think they should have put those ressource for multiplayer into the main game.
Now I guess they had a whole other team and budget for multiplayer and in the end ,multiplayer cash in a lot...

I don't really want a multiplayer for DA , I don't see the point , besides it's obviously an easy way to make money via the store.But it's not my problem .And i don't want a stupid system that mix multiplayer and solo game .There are two different things , and it's pretty insulting to force multiplayer down our throat.
When i'm going to buy DA3 , it's for the solo experience , If the multiplayer is good , great.If it's not , i won't care.

#43
kaymarierose

kaymarierose
  • Members
  • 593 messages
No, absolutely not. That is a horrible idea. Those resources need to be spent on the single player game and the single player game only. Multiplayer ruined ME3 for me, don't let it ruin DA3 too. It has been a single player game since the beginning, it needs to stay that way.

#44
Hurbster

Hurbster
  • Members
  • 772 messages
I am strongly opposed to multiplayer in DA3, I do not see how it can work - apart from a Shogun/Risk sort of game. If EA insist it's included (Project 10dollar) it MUST be kept separate and not affect single-player in the slightest. It should be very much a side project and not a detriment to the SP campaign (as in ME3 - maybe less stuff would have been cut from the ending had this been true).

#45
KDD-0063

KDD-0063
  • Members
  • 544 messages

FieryDove wrote...

KDD-0063 wrote...


ME3's MP is okay because the previous story is built up to a point: we are fighting an all out war with the reaper forces. A horde mode MP makes sense because there's conflict with the reaper forces breaking out everywhere on the galaxy all the time.

DA3...I don't think horde mode MP will fit at all. DA world attracts with its rich lore, political conflicts and etc. There is little room for such a mode unless there's another blight, which, judging from DA3's setting isn't really likely to happen.


I disagree on ME3. IF I wanted to play MP I would play Sheploo not grunt #433. Not to mention the *bug* hasn't been patched does not endear me to MP in any form. Blarg

I can see MP working in DA3. Hawke vs THE Warden vs DA3 new Protag. Let's take bets now who would win. Image IPB


Sure not everybody likes horde mode. What I meant was that horde mode makes sense in ME3, but probably won't make any sense in DA3.

As for your ideas...if you are playing Shep in ME MP, who should your friends play? Everyone wants to play Shep. Unless you mean adding co-op as a campaign option.

And, an arena mode will be even more ridiculous and probably can only serve as a spin-off.

#46
Maria Caliban

Maria Caliban
  • Members
  • 26 094 messages

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Anything more specific about what you'd look for from multiplayer?

Like ME 3 MP, but with swords and spells instead of guns and powers.

#47
Withidread

Withidread
  • Members
  • 471 messages
I hated the single player tie in of ME3's MP with a passion, but the MP implementation itself wasn't bad. But I don't see myself having any desire to play a Dragon Age version of such an implementation, tie in or not.

I'd much rather see Bioware go back to the old style of MP that they've got more experience with. The style seen in the BG/IWD/NWN series. These were very successfull, especially NWN with the addition of the toolset.

#48
iheartbob

iheartbob
  • Members
  • 583 messages
I had absolutely no interest in the MP for ME3 and now I play it more than the single player campaign. So I wouldn't mind it, unless it effects the single player campaign the way that ME3's MP did. I see that his issue has already been in discussion though, so that's good to know.

DA for me is still about the player's campaign, so the SP would still be more important to me than any MP tie in. But I'm open to it.

Oh. And I'd prefer Co-op too.

#49
Sinuphro

Sinuphro
  • Members
  • 244 messages
dunno about you guys but...how the heck do you make a multiplayer game with no pvp?? is the flop known as me 3 not enough for bioware to leearn a lesson from?? how much screw ups must bioware have before it learns its lesson??
Look; multiplayer is useless if you cannot pvp. Look at the game called Killzone 3. It came out almost 2 years ago yet...people are still playing the multiplayer despite the poor short story. Bioware, you ppl need to go back to the drawing board to realize why killzone 3 and dragon age origins are better than dragon age 2 and mass effect 3

#50
Zanallen

Zanallen
  • Members
  • 4 425 messages
I want a Gauntlet style multiplayer. That's it.