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[GR Groe]

I can't seem to find any discussion of the new film anywhere else on the forum, and in any event I wanted to discuss spoilers. I would very much welcome the input of any of the writers/developers, the film raised quite a few questions.

I'll start by saying I enjoyed it. It's not as complex as you would expect from your typical Dragon Age story, but perhaps that's a good thing. If every single Dragon Age tale sent me on a complete ethical rollercoaster, I might get burnt out very quickly. It's a fun little adventure (strike that, it's anything but little) which feels very much like a neat companion backstory put to film, which is not at all unenjoyable. It's also very accessible to non-fans of Dragon Age while still remaining entertaining for a fan like me, an achievement which is very difficult to pull off. I know there are some who will disagree with me; my point: I would recommend watching it at least once. I highly doubt it's necessary to the overall Dragon Age plotline, but it's definitely a fun extra.

That said, for a fan like me, it left quite a few questions. I am a lore buff, or at least a plotline buff, and I like paying attention to little details, so forgive me if this seems nitpicky. Dragon Age: Dawn of the Seeker takes place around the same time period as the novel, Dragon Age: Asunder. Mention is made in the film of Kirkwall (though I grant they don't state exactly what happened in Kirkwall, happening place that it is. Still, it's a little ridiculous to imagine that someone wouldn't assume Kirkwall=Hawke/Meredith/Gallows.)  In the novel, I believe mention is made of the Grand Cathedral coming under dragon attack in the past, an event which occurs in the film. Both media occur (or appear to occur) within the 3-year span of time between the Kirkwall rebellion and Cassandra's interrogation of Varric. It would seem that a lot happens within that 3-year span.

I'll start with the various ranks and titles, and the characters who carry them. This is where the majority of my confusion stems.

*Head of the Seekers (Lord Seeker/High Seeker)
In the film the Seekers are headed by an unnamed High Seeker, who is shown to be a just and honorable man, the type you want leading an organization like the Seekers. He is killed, and the Divine (who I assume is Justinia V/Revered Mother Dorothea) declares Cassandra to be the High Seeker, thereafter handing her the book shown at the end of Dragon Age 2 and presumably starting on her quest to find Hawke (or what will eventually become her quest to find Hawke). Cassandra is also stated to be the head of the Seekers in Felicia Day's Dragon Age: Redemption, which is of course Bioware sanctioned and supported.
In the novel, the Seekers are headed by Lambert van Reese, who holds the title Lord Seeker. He is shown to possess the typical ruthlessness of a high ranking templar, and uses his position to secure control over the Templar Order. He is the one who splits the Templars from the Chantry and declares war on the mages. No mention is made of Cassandra and her Seekers, who are presumably in opposition to Lambert and still supporting the Divine. 
It could be possible that the Divine dispatched Cassandra covertly and installed Lambert in her place, with disastrous results, of course. There's nothing to really suggest that Lambert has held his position for any massive length of time. Still, it bears questioning.

*The Knight-Commander
The Knight-Commander in Dawn of the Seeker is unnamed as well, and conspires with the Blood Mage cult to assassinate the Divine (via dragons. Gotta give 'em credit for style.) He is of course killed by Cassandra, leaving his position open. 
In Asunder, Knight-Commander Eron commands the White Spire. He is relieved of command by Lambert at the beginning of the novel, and never heard from again.   
What makes this curious is that Eron appears to hold to trust and goodwill of the mages of the White Spire, appearing a just and honorable man (rather like the High Seeker). He also appears to have commanded the White Spire for a long time, though again this is mere speculation. A lot of this depends on exactly how far apart Dawn of the Seeker and Asunder truly are timeline wise. One year might not make a big difference, three years might.

*First Enchanter
In Dawn of the Seeker, the First Enchanter is unnamed but does not appear to match the description of Edmonde, the First Enchanter present in Asunder, who is bent, bearded, and wizened with age whereas this First Enchanter at least appears fairly able-bodied (and beardless). This could simply be a difference in artistic portrayals, in which case it's unimportant.

Beyond the ranks and titles, my other major questions regarded the timeline and aspects of the plot. Specifically, what is the timeline? I think it's safe to assume Dawn of the Seeker comes before Asunder, seeing as mages are not only still present in Orlais, they're eager to protect the Chantry. Just the same, is it possible that there's a difference between the mages and templars of the White Spire and those of the Grand Cathedral? That would explain the Knight-Commander difference, at least. Knowing how and where all these events actually fall within this relatively small gap of time would be very helpful.

Another question I have pertains to the Seekers themselves. David Gaider has said (or suggested postulation) that the Seekers do not have a uniform, hence Leliana is not one of them. I accept that Leliana might simply have been wearing Seeker colors without actually being part of the organization, but c'mon. In Asunder, Lambert is described wearing Seeker armor. That black sunburst is all over Dawn of the Seeker. The Seekers have a uniform. Even if it's not official, it's the one they're known for, and that's good enough to warrant calling it "their threads." (Again, I concede Cassandra's Seekers might be different from Lambert's. Time will tell, I suppose.)

I might be forgetting or overlooking more, but I believe that's the meat of it. For the record, I believe that "The Chantry had a hell of a three years" is a perfectly reasonable answer, especially considering it really did. I mean, think about it. First a dragon attack from rogue Blood Mages in cahoots with both a Knight-Commander and a Grand Cleric, and then both the White Spire and the templars rebel, sparking what's projected as the most devastating war in Thedosian history. This has been the most awful three years in the history of the Chantry, I imagine. Say whatever you like about religious oppression, it seems like the Chantry is getting its just rewards (and right when it gets a decent Divine too). Let's not even talk about the property and personnel damage (how many templars did Hawke kill, exactly? The Order can't be recruiting that fast.)

And if the answer from the devs is, "We got some retconnin' to do," that's fine too. We never did find out what happened to the poor Knight-Vigilant, did we? With all this other stuff happening, I get the feeling that concept's been scrapped. But if that's the case, let's hear about it. Thoughts?

[Ausstig]

I just saw it today so here goes:

on Head of the Seekers (Lord Seeker/High Seeker);

Lord Seeker sounds like a political title where as High Seeker sounds like an exemplar of what they do. The high Seeker may be a figure head, or in charge of the Divines personal guard/enforces, since there are only like 10ish Seekers in the entire film.

The Knight-Commander
The other Asunder KC may have been in charge of the White tower and then took over as Supreme Commander of the Templars after the events of Film.

There is at most a 3 year gap between the Film and DA2 as the KC mentions Kirkwall

Off topic I loved how one of the last lines in the Film is also one of the first in Dragon Age ads

"The Righteous stand before the darkness and the Maker guide their hand"

[Augustei]

Cassandra isn't made head of the seekers is she? I remember he being named right hand of the divine but don't remember her being named head of the seekers. Dragon Age: Redemption had a vast amount of inaccuracies and I wouldn't really use it as a basis for anything or source for lore related stuff.

If i remember right the novel took place in 9:40 dragon and dawn of the seeker took place in 9:38 dragon (same year as end of DA2 and same year as the events of Dragon Age: The Silent Grove) so they are 2 years apart

The First Enchanter in Dawn of the Seeker is Edmonde.

The Knight-Commander in Dawn of the Seeker I doubt would be the same as the one from the novel, the one from the novel probably being the one from the movies replacement and having been Knight-Commander for 2 years by the time of the novel.

High/Lord seeker thing I have no idea about, Maybe they are meant to be the same position? or maybe Lord Seeker means he is the acting / temporary leader of the seekers until a new one is chosen.. I don't know how the High / Lord Seeker would be chosen though maybe from a vote among their ranks and not chosen by the divine since they would have had to have appointed leaders back during the inquisition before they were part of the chantry and this is why the divine wouldn't choose who lead them - but this is just speculation on my part.
If true however im guessing Lambert just sort of assumed full control of the Seekers when he broke them away from the chantry

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 09 juin 2012 - 11:03 .

[Blacklash93]

Deception, Redemption, and now DotS.

See, Bioware? This is what happens when you let others write stories in your worlds. I'd like to think you care about consistency.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 09 juin 2012 - 12:22 .

[thats1evildude]

It could be that "High Seeker" and "Lord Seeker" are two different titles, like Knight-Captain and Knight-Commander.

The First Enchanter from the film is the same as the First Enchanter in Asunder. Also, depending on how much time passed between Dawn of the Seeker and Asunder, he could have grown a beard and become considerably more frail.

[HiroVoid]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Deception, Redemption, and now DotS.

See, Bioware? This is what happens when you let others write stories in your worlds. I'd like to think you care about consistency.

While they could get some better editors, I really don't think its that big of a deal.  When you go in to watch something like Dawn of the Seeker, you should go in knowing its not going to be completely lore accurate, and probably more campy then most other media.  I think only hardcore fans or lore-nitpickers will really get THAT upset about it.  I can understand how it could be annoying when someone tries to reference events from other media like this as ways to back up their arguments though.

[Blacklash93]

GR Groe wrote...
 I believe mention is made of the Grand Cathedral coming under dragon attack in the past, an event which occurs in the film. Both media occur (or appear to occur) within the 3-year span of time between the Kirkwall rebellion and Cassandra's interrogation of Varric. It would seem that a lot happens within that 3-year span.

Actually the book gives an exact date of the dragon attack and although I can't remember that particular date I do recall it being quite a bit earlier than 9:38. That's why I was assuming DotS took place earlier in the timeline before I watched it.

While they could get some better editors, I really don't think its that big of a deal. When you go in to watch something like Dawn of the Seeker, you should go in knowing its not going to be completely lore accurate, and probably more campy then most other media. I think only hardcore fans or lore-nitpickers will really get THAT upset about it. I can understand how it could be annoying when someone tries to reference events from other media like this as ways to back up their arguments though.

Fans should encourage Bioware to strive for better storytelling and consistency across all media. Consistency errors like these make the world feel less believable and authentic. If you're going to do it, do it right.

The First Enchanter from the film is the same as the First Enchanter in Asunder. Also, depending on how much time passed between Dawn of the Seeker and Asunder, he could have grown a beard and become considerably more frail.

Unless he got hit by something like a rapid-aging spell that is very implausable.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 09 juin 2012 - 10:07 .

[jbrand2002uk]

XxDeonxX is right Cassandra is made right hand of the divine no Lord/High Seeker it takes place after Anders blows up Kirkwall's Chantry but before Cassandra meets Varrick the Knight Commander role was created mainly for Gackt as he provides the Theme Music as well as the Characters Voice in the Japanese dub

[thats1evildude]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Unless he got hit by something like a rapid-aging spell that is very implausable.

Eh … I've seen older folks disintegrate very quickly. Metaphorically speaking, my dad aged about 30 years in the year before he died.

Having watched the movie now, it's fairly faithful to the lore. There are slight differences I put down to the film being adapted for a Japanese audience.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 10 juin 2012 - 05:11 .

[Tommyspa]

According to the official site we have. Divine Justinia V, Knight Commander Martel, High Seeker Aldred, Grand Cleric Callista, First Enchanter Edmonde, and thats1evildude is right, my grandpa did the same over the two years he spent dying. I'd be willing to bet Lord Seeker and High Seeker are different like Knight Commander being below Knight Divine.

[Gervaise]

My Dad also went from looking about 30 years younger than he really was to an old man in the space of 6 months because of cancer, so Edmonde could deteriorate very quickly. May be the prolonged use of lyrium finally takes its toll of mages in rapid mental and physical aging.

Lambert had originally served in the Tevinter Chantry under the Black Divine. It is not clear what rank he had risen to prior to leaving but it is at least possible that he was raised to Lord Seeker there by his former friend and when he moved to Orlais, he kept his title, since that would have been under the previous Divine Beatrix, who was in her dotage but would no doubt have approved of his zeal. In DA2 the questions is posed "who watches the watchers". May be the answer was Lambert.

[WhiteKnyght]

Simple.

Dawn of the Seeker was in development before Asunder was even being written. Lord and High Seeker are the same position, just an error in naming.

The Kirkwall event that Knight Commander Martel mentioned in DotS was probably the Qunari uprising, not the incident at the Gallows. The Templars were expected to be the first defense should the Qunari try anything after all, yet a completely unrelated person gets involved and saves the day.

Dorothea/Justinia V rose to power in 9:34 Dragon. This movie is in between Acts 2 and 3 of Dragon Age II as the White Spire had not been cracked down upon. Also page 288 of Asunder, which takes place in 9:38 Dragon mentions Frenic's dragon attack and that it took years to recover from.

Knight-Commander Eron was promoted to the position after Martel got killed.

Edmonde probably contracted an illness which caused him to deteriorate.

Also Cassandra probably became head of the Seekers of Truth after Lambert's death. She was wearing completely black armor in the last scene, just like Aldren and Lambert are described as, when Justinia gives her the book and gives her the mission that leads her to interrogate Varric.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 10 juin 2012 - 08:50 .

[Emzamination]

Why were there massive numbers of ogres and golems? Lore wise both of them should be really few in number especially the golems who aren't even manufactured anymore.

Why were the golems being controlled by blood magic when they have no blood?

Why were there huge numbers of dragons when they are suppose to be near extinct?

Why did cassandra put my warden to shame in dragon killing and in so short a time as well?

Why is cassandra in trainee gear and treated like one when the events of kirkwall are said to be in the past?

Why is cassandra given her black book we see her interrogating varric with at the end when the events of kirkwall were said to have already happened

Why did cassandra have such hatred for mages when in da2 she respected mage hawke and wanted to avoid war?

Why is cassandra named the right hand of the divine? That's leliana's title or is she the left?

Why was that mage kissing cassandra when she may be the seeker party member hinted at during pax?

I have far more but this'll have to do for now.

[Tommyspa]

Emzamination wrote...

Why were there massive numbers of ogres and golems? Lore wise both of them should be really few in number especially the golems who aren't even manufactured anymore.

The only thing I can come up with is they were the same blood mages that killed Cassandra's brother and they've been hunting them for a long time as cannon fodder, or it just looks beasty, either or.

Why were the golems being controlled by blood magic when they have no blood?

Dunno, I know we couldn't during Origins due to gameplay. Could we use BM on golems in DA2, I don't recall. Also, the plot dictates it because it looks beasty for her to fight ogres and golems.

Why were there huge numbers of dragons when they are suppose to be near extinct?

Misconception, they have been harping recently that it is called dragon age because the dragons are coming back to the world. The comic by Gaider calls them the "blood of the world."

Why did cassandra put my warden to shame in dragon killing and in so short a time as well?

Come on now, you know they could not go several minutes of her climbing all over the dragon to kill them in a 90 minute movie.

Why is cassandra in trainee gear and treated like one when the events of kirkwall are said to be in the past?

It was practice armor, not trainee armor, If you noticed that is what she was doing before she had to flee the seekers after following Byron. Byron was wearing the same set, he certainly wasn't a trainee. I got the impression she was the 3rd most respected seeker there behind Aldren and Byron.

Why is cassandra given her black book we see her interrogating varric with at the end when the events of kirkwall were said to have already happened

Misconception again, she does not interrogate Varric 'til three years after the events of The Last Straw, that gives her a solid three years to investigate everything before capturing Varric given that the movie can take place just after the last straw.

Why did cassandra have such hatred for mages when in da2 she respected mage hawke and wanted to avoid war?

She hates blood mages for killing some of her family right in front of her, she lumped all other mages in that category until she met Galyan and was proven, I might just be a ****. Other part can easily be character development over the course of a few years.

Why is cassandra named the right hand of the divine? That's leliana's title or is she the left?

I think Leliana is offically left. Though I think there is some overlap here. Really small nitpick though.

Why was that mage kissing cassandra when she may be the seeker party member hinted at during pax?

Same reason Anders banged Karl or Leliana was with Marjolaine. People have emotions before they meet the PC of a game, haha. Technically she kissed him on the cheek, and to me it was a thank you for being awesome kiss  not a get in my pants kiss.

Modifié par Tommyspa, 10 juin 2012 - 11:19 .

[Emzamination]

Tommyspa wrote...

Why did cassandra put my warden to shame in dragon killing and in so short a time as well?

Come on now, you know they could not go several minutes of her climbing all over the dragon to kill them in a 90 minute movie.

Why was that mage kissing cassandra when she may be the seeker party member hinted at during pax?

Same reason Anders banged Karl or Leliana was with Marjolaine. People have emotions before they meet the PC of a game, haha. Technically she kissed him on the cheek, and to me it was a thank you for being awesome kiss  not a get in my pants kiss.

Yeah but she took out 2/3 if you want to count the high dragon in less than 10 minutes.Well I guess the warden did take out a demonic dragon which would be equal to 5 of those

But there was chemistry there He rolled on top of her in the forest,rubbed her inner thigh and made her blush and when he told her she was a beautiful woman she didn't stop his advances, she just said "now isn't the time" but then again since she didn't interrogate varric till 3 years later and expressed an attraction to male hawke I guess they didn't go anywhere I think

Thanks for answering all my questions tommy :happy:

Modifié par Emzamination, 11 juin 2012 - 12:07 .

[Tommyspa]

I think she is just impressionable by epic men. She did spend her life in the chantry, I assume. Not much opportunity for emotional growth. Cassandra LI for DA3 is an absolute must.