166 réponses à ce sujet

[Rodrrigoww]

For Krogans , one that should be in their passive skill tree since the very beggining , remember how secure we felt having wrex and grunt in our parties?Yeah , that was greatly due to their health regeneration , I mean , what's the point of being a tanker if you don't have that regen?It only takes one ravager shot to break your shield and another cannibal burst to kill you should your health be on the low , and it will probably be.Not only would this make them much better as it would go with everything we know , or erm , knew about krogans.
edit :Like some of you mentioned this regen should kick in along with shields , and maybe a little bit faster , like 15%( both shields and health , every class can refill their main weapons , be it grenades , deadly sniper ammo , infinite biotics and techs , krogan should refill theirs.

For vangurds : Being able to charge through cover and walls , like , for real , not after three times pressing the button.How many times , after killing our targets , are we left in the open desperately looking for something to charge on while being shot  to death?And oftenly that thing is behind cover and it will be too late until it ducks out so you can charge.
edit:Yeah , hosting definetly may help , my solos on silver would agree with that , but on gold , I'm oftenly rotating the camera in the fastest speed while pressing the BC key.Maybe being able to charge to the nearest target if found without a lock on would help I'll add that to the straightforward bullet points.
These 2 are very realistical and plausible changes that'd drastically improve these 2 capped classes.Both which I love before haters spam on me , it's just that they don't perform as good in gold , and they deserve better.

(Edit ) Summarazing :

Krogans

• Should have a health regen exactly like shield regen , one that kicks in when not in battle.
• Shield regen should be faster , around 15%;After the shield is full the health starts regenerating , a bit slower though.Disclaimer :Not only would this keep their maximum efficency throughout the whole game as it'd go really nice with what we know from them and set them apart from vorchas since the mechanic is different

Vanguards

• When without a locked target , they should be able to charge to the nearest enemy upon the press of the BC key . Disclaimer :That should happen within a dangerous range , 15˜20 m perhaps?Otherwise they could just hunt for everything in the map.
• This charge pass through cover. p.s :On the initial post I said through walls as well , but enemies behind walls are not posing any threat so disregard that.

So , what do you guys think about that?

Modifié par Rodrrigoww, 09 juin 2012 - 07:03 .

[GodlessPaladin]

The number one thing I'd like to see for Vanguards is more offensive reward to for the risk. Some might say "But GP! They already do solid damage!" Well that's true, but you have to compare them to other good choices like the Infiltrator who dishes it out like no tomorrow and is much safer.

[Tokenusername]

I would love to see krogan regen, but balence wise for it to be viable it would have to be so small it wouldn;t even be worth it.

And how is giving vanguards the abilty to pass through solid matter a "realistical and plausible change"?

[Zhuinden]

Vanguards already CAN charge through cover, though not necessarily walls. You just can't charge if you'd end up in a wall.
All Vanguards need is a fix against flying everywhere.

[Qror_pl]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The number one thing I'd like to see for Vanguards is more offensive reward to for the risk. Some might say "But GP! They already do solid damage!" Well that's true, but you have to compare them to other good choices like the Infiltrator who dishes it out like no tomorrow and is much safer.

The problem is, that infiltrators
 are some-what co-oping, by hacking etc., while kroguards are mostly kill stealers or mindless rushers who charge into first banshee/atlas they see. That's why people won't like any buffs for vanguards. Maybe exept for drell vanguard.

[Olaf_de_IJsbeer]

Qror_pl wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The number one thing I'd like to see for Vanguards is more offensive reward to for the risk. Some might say "But GP! They already do solid damage!" Well that's true, but you have to compare them to other good choices like the Infiltrator who dishes it out like no tomorrow and is much safer.

The problem is, that infiltrators
 are some-what co-oping, by hacking etc., while kroguards are mostly kill stealers or mindless rushers who charge into first banshee/atlas they see. That's why people won't like any buffs for vanguards. Maybe exept for drell vanguard.

I agree that charging Banshees is stupid, except when it's warranted (biotic explosion, for example), but charging an Atlas is totally justified. We take enemy fire so you don't have to. It's our way of helping.

Modifié par Olaf_de_IJsbeer, 09 juin 2012 - 09:52 .

[THE NOOBIE NOOB WHO TYPES IN CAPS]

The eternal flying is a LAG issue. Just don't mash the key like there's no tomorrow and you shouldn't fly as much.
Agreed on the charge marathon issue, I do believe that Krogans need health regen, their whole point is to tank (Sentinel) and the Vanguard is waaay too slow and gets mashed on Gold (usually)

[Binary_Helix 1]

Agreed.

However the vanguard buff you're proposing would make them unkillable on silver. Only the bosses would be able to take them down. The Geth would be at a major disadvantage against them.

[Rodrrigoww]

Tokenusername wrote...

I would love to see krogan regen, but balence wise for it to be viable it would have to be so small it wouldn;t even be worth it.

And how is giving vanguards the abilty to pass through solid matter a "realistical and plausible change"?

In the sense you can already do that after a couple of tries , and if you consider that smash and shockwave passes through wall and they're all biotics , it would make sense , in the ME universe , that biotic charge would let you pass through them.

edit: as for krogans , yeah , definetly way less than vorchas , just enough to get back into action after a while , maybe 1/3 of vorcha's speed.An injured krogan , with kroguard being exception is too fragile , I don't think it'd break balance , i mean , it's not like they're nowhere near the verge of being overpowered , not being able to roll , getting staggered like everyone else and having their shields destroyed in a single hit.

Modifié par Rodrrigoww, 09 juin 2012 - 09:58 .

[TeamLexana]

Krogans and Vangaurds already are viable classes as is, though I necasarily wouldn't take a vangaurd into gold but I would and have taken a Krogan Sentinal and Solider many a time into gold and did just fine.... just stay away from Geth, I don't know what it is but my Krogans seem to always get stun locked agaist Geth.

[molecularman]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The number one thing I'd like to see for Vanguards is more offensive reward to for the risk. Some might say "But GP! They already do solid damage!" Well that's true, but you have to compare them to other good choices like the Infiltrator who dishes it out like no tomorrow and is much saer.

i remember making a theead about this a long while ago and everybody seemed to disagree. including you, i thinkr

[Nitrocuban]

First fix permastuntodeath vs Geth please

[Binary_Helix 1]

molecularman wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The number one thing I'd like to see for Vanguards is more offensive reward to for the risk. Some might say "But GP! They already do solid damage!" Well that's true, but you have to compare them to other good choices like the Infiltrator who dishes it out like no tomorrow and is much saer.

i remember making a theead about this a long while ago and everybody seemed to disagree. including you, i thinkr

The tide turns slowly around here but it does move.

[Rodrrigoww]

TeamLexana wrote...

Krogans and Vangaurds already are viable classes as is, though I necasarily wouldn't take a vangaurd into gold but I would and have taken a Krogan Sentinal and Solider many a time into gold and did just fine.... just stay away from Geth, I don't know what it is but my Krogans seem to always get stun locked agaist Geth.

Yeah , they sure are , and i love me some soldier every now and then (human and turian) , but I'd much rather be an engie , an infi an adept or a sentinel and do better damage from a safer distance.And yeah krogan vs. geth is suicide , I don't even consider it anyore , actually I'd only use them against cerberus , if i'm really tired of playing other races.

[molecularman]

^ About time, then! Novaguard has one of the lowest dps among all classes

[Rodrrigoww]

Zhuinden wrote...

Vanguards already CAN charge through cover, though not necessarily walls. You just can't charge if you'd end up in a wall.
All Vanguards need is a fix against flying everywhere.

Yeah i know , but oftenly , perhaps randomly ,  I'll try to pay attention to a pattern, you are not able to do so , like the ability th charge through cover wasn't intended or something.

[GodlessPaladin]

molecularman wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The number one thing I'd like to see for Vanguards is more offensive reward to for the risk. Some might say "But GP! They already do solid damage!" Well that's true, but you have to compare them to other good choices like the Infiltrator who dishes it out like no tomorrow and is much saer.

i remember making a theead about this a long while ago and everybody seemed to disagree. including you, i thinkr

Really?  Are you sure?  Regardless, I think it's needed more now than before, because several other classes have gotten a lot of love from the DLC/Patch whereas all the Vanguard got was, well... an objective at which they are worse than most due to it preventing them from charging.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 10:11 .

[Rodrrigoww]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The number one thing I'd like to see for Vanguards is more offensive reward to for the risk. Some might say "But GP! They already do solid damage!" Well that's true, but you have to compare them to other good choices like the Infiltrator who dishes it out like no tomorrow and is much safer.

Finally someone gets me.Where's the balance when there are much better choices , like that infi as you stated?It's not about nerfing the infi , but buffing some others, sure I can complete gold , granted I'm in a decent team , with any class/race of the game , it's only that i'd rather do it as quickly and efficently as possible .So classe who are in the front lines , like krogans and vanguards should be rewarded for that , or at least do that AS efficently as an infi/adept does from afar.

[molecularman]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

molecularman wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The number one thing I'd like to see for Vanguards is more offensive reward to for the risk. Some might say "But GP! They already do solid damage!" Well that's true, but you have to compare them to other good choices like the Infiltrator who dishes it out like no tomorrow and is much saer.

i remember making a theead about this a long while ago and everybody seemed to disagree. including you, i thinkr

Really?  Are you sure?  Regardless, I think it's needed more now than before, because several other classes have gotten a lot of love from the DLC/Patch whereas all the Vanguard got was, well... an objective at which they are worse than most due to it preventing them from charging.

'kay, I found that thing. My thoughts about vanguards are pretty much the same, still  http://social.biowar.../index/11335437

[LULZferBAKON]

First suggestion I'd love, but can live without. Second one would be absolutely amazing.

[Drussius]

Rodrrigoww wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

I would love to see krogan regen, but balence wise for it to be viable it would have to be so small it wouldn;t even be worth it.

And how is giving vanguards the abilty to pass through solid matter a "realistical and plausible change"?

In the sense you can already do that after a couple of tries , and if you consider that smash and shockwave passes through wall and they're all biotics , it would make sense , in the ME universe , that biotic charge would let you pass through them.

edit: as for krogans , yeah , definetly way less than vorchas , just enough to get back into action after a while , maybe 1/3 of vorcha's speed.An injured krogan , with kroguard being exception is too fragile , I don't think it'd break balance , i mean , it's not like they're nowhere near the verge of being overpowered , not being able to roll , getting staggered like everyone else and having their shields destroyed in a single hit.

For Krogan regen, rather than see it working all the time like the Vorcha, I'd just like to see it work so that if you take cover long enough for your shields to recharge, your health recharges too. But if they are taking shield or health damage while in cover, their health wouldn't regen, just like shields don't.

[GodlessPaladin]

molecularman wrote...
'kay, I found that thing. My thoughts about vanguards are pretty much the same, still  http://social.biowar.../index/11335437

I don't want to just buff Nova.  My suggested change does a few things...

-It makes melee do more damage.
-It makes melee synergy give a slightly bigger bonus and last 30 seconds.
-It buffs the synergy evolutions of Biotic Charge a bit.
-It buffs the chance of not triggering a cooldown evolution (rank 6) to 50% chance.
-It also makes a small adjustment to Nova.
-Buffed Carnage and Pull offensive capabilities and radius.

The end result is...
-A Vanguard that can be played more aggressively at the expense of durability (Consider the Krogan Vanguard being able to charge/Carnage or detonate Barrier or even re-charge 50% of the time, for example, trading off invincibility for some teeth).  Lash/Smash/Shockwave also benefit from this (though Shockwave is probably still not a very solid choice)
-Potentially 82.5% weapon damage bonus if you finish off enemies with melee occasionally and take weapon damage biotic charge evolution and full training. 
-Vanguards have even more pressure to keep up their offensive flow if they want to maximize their damage potential, and are encouraged to intersperse spam with varied attacks and melee.
-Asari Vanguards can actually kill things with their "nova melee" at the cost of it still being quite risky and vulnerable.
-Pull will basically destroy anything without shields.  (Not much else I could make it do without getting away from Fagnanesque changes)

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 10:43 .

[molecularman]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

molecularman wrote...
'kay, I found that thing. My thoughts about vanguards are pretty much the same, still  http://social.biowar.../index/11335437

I don't want to just buff Nova.  My suggested change does a few things...

-It makes melee do more damage.
-It makes melee synergy give a slightly bigger bonus and last 30 seconds.
-It buffs the synergy evolutions of Biotic Charge a bit.
-It buffs the chance of not triggering a cooldown evolution (rank 6) to 50% chance.
-It also makes a small adjustment to Nova.
-Buffed Carnage and Pull offensive capabilities and radius.

The end result is...
-A Vanguard that can be played more aggressively at the expense of durability (Consider the Krogan Vanguard being able to charge/Carnage or detonate Barrier or even re-charge 50% of the time, for example, trading off invincibility for some teeth).  Lash/Smash/Shockwave also benefit from this.
-Potentially 82.5% weapon damage bonus if you finish off enemies with melee occasionally and take weapon damage biotic charge evolution and full training.  Gives even more pressure to keep up the offensive flow for a Vanguard.
-Asari Vanguards can actually kill things with their "nova melee" at the cost of it still being quite risky and vulnerable.
-Pull will basically destroy anything without shields.  (Not much else I could make it do without getting away from Fagnanesque changes)

You're right, but I didn't want to go that far back then when even the slightest nova buff seemed to be too much for everybody.

I guess nobody would disagree with some vanguard buffs anymore

[GodlessPaladin]

Some things that have made Vanguards a bit worse for wear:

• -Pizza objectives prevent biotic charge, which Vanguards are reliant on for survival and offensive presence.
• -Increased sync kill rates makes their nature even more risky.
• -The new and improved Drell Adept, Male Quarians, and Inferno Grenadiers makes the role of the Human Vanguard as a continuous combo trigger less meaningful.
• -The new thermal clip packs / gear benefit grenadiers and infiltrators more than anyone else, and they weren't exactly slouches before.  Also, most classes can recharge their shields much faster with the Shield Recharge Cells / Stronghold Package combo (which of course isn't really helping the Biotic Charge types).  By contrast, the new gear does little for Human Vanguards.
• -Infiltrators can do massive area damage across the map all on their own with tools like the Krysae and their buffed up Proximity Mine support.  And they can rush into enemy spawns and nuke them outright with Geth Melee.  All the while, Cloak and movement speed keeps them pretty safe.
• -Human Vanguards STILL have the frequently deadly "mash Y to not charge" bug.  And they are still at risk of flying off the map.

Also worth considering:  The Human Vanguard may be a great "tank" but it's a tank that requires skill (for all that some people may BS about "two buttons" situational awareness, movement, and dodging are key and there's a reason there aren't that many successful Human Vanguards on Gold).  That said, when you've got a team of skilled players, a tank isn't really necessary for much of anything. 

The Salarian Engineer, by contrast, also loses much of its value as a "tank" on skilled teams that just steamroll through Gold... but takes very little skill to use, so is useful for less skilled teams.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 11:04 .

[molecularman]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Some things that have made Vanguards a bit worse for wear:
-Pizza objectives prevent biotic charge, which Vanguards are reliant on for survival and offensive presence.
-Increased sync kill rates makes their nature even more risky.
-The new and improved Drell Adept, Male Quarians, and Inferno Grenadiers makes the role of the Human Vanguard as a continuous combo trigger less meaningful.

-The "I'm not charging that" bug, especially lethal for human vanguards