166 réponses à ce sujet

[Olaf_de_IJsbeer]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Also worth considering:  The Human Vanguard may be a great "tank" but it's a tank that requires skill (for all that some people may BS about "two buttons" situational awareness, movement, and dodging are key and there's a reason there aren't that many successful Human Vanguards).

I like you.

It would indeed be swell if Vanguards in general got more love from the developers.

[molecularman]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Some things that have made Vanguards a bit worse for wear:

• -Pizza objectives prevent biotic charge, which Vanguards are reliant on for survival and offensive presence.
• -Increased sync kill rates makes their nature even more risky.
• -The new and improved Drell Adept, Male Quarians, and Inferno Grenadiers makes the role of the Human Vanguard as a continuous combo trigger less meaningful.
• -The new thermal clip packs / gear benefit grenadiers and infiltrators more than anyone else, and they weren't exactly slouches before.  Also, most classes can recharge their shields much faster with the Shield Recharge Cells / Stronghold Package combo (which of course isn't really helping the Biotic Charge types).  By contrast, the new gear does little for Human Vanguards.
• -Infiltrators can do massive area damage across the map all on their own with tools like the Krysae.  And they can rush into enemy spawns and nuke them outright with Geth Melee.  All the while, Cloak and movement speed keeps them pretty safe.
• -Human Vanguards STILL have the frequently deadly "mash Y to not charge" bug.  And they are still at risk of flying off the map.

Also worth considering:  The Human Vanguard may be a great "tank" but it's a tank that requires skill (for all that some people may BS about "two buttons" situational awareness, movement, and dodging are key and there's a reason there aren't that many successful Human Vanguards).  That said, when you've got a team of skilled players, a tank isn't really necessary for much of anything. 

The Salarian Engineer, by contrast, also loses much of its value as a "tank" on skilled teams that just steamroll through Gold... but takes very little skill to use, so is useful for less skilled teams.

Pretty spot on. Tanking really ain't worth the loss of damage output. Especially when you need skill and even then you aren't a real thank because charge bug gets you killed once in a minute (well, almost )

[GodlessPaladin]

Edited my previous posts to add a few more points.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 11:05 .

[vivanto]

Both krogan and vanguards are mostly alright.

The only regen I could see working without getting OP is applying the shield regen to health. That is, outside of combat your health regens fully, not just to the Nth health bar you currently have.

Novaguards are already OP, they're just hindered by the non-host glitches. Anything short of a complete and proper fix to that bug will not solve their issue while any buff on a host will make them ridiculously powerful.

For the other vanguards, an improved weapon synergy, and maybe a 50% bonus power chance as suggested above would be enough.

[GodlessPaladin]

vivanto wrote...
Novaguards are already OP.

OP compared to what?  Geth?  Male Quarians?  Drell Adepts?  No.

[vivanto]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

vivanto wrote...
Novaguards are already OP.

OP compared to what?  Geth?  Male Quarians?  Drell Adepts?  No.

To everything. You just have to be the host, hence why you don't see a lot of rage threads wanting a nerf on them.

[Kronner]

I'd be content if they just fixed the ****ing bug that makes the Vanguard unplayable most of the time.

[GodlessPaladin]

vivanto wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

vivanto wrote...
Novaguards are already OP.

OP compared to what?  Geth?  Male Quarians?  Drell Adepts?  No.

To everything. You just have to be the host, hence why you don't see a lot of rage threads wanting a nerf on them.

Everything, huh?   Yeeeah I'm not even going to bother here.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 11:13 .

[molecularman]

vivanto wrote...
Novaguards are already OP.

...And this is why we'll never get a buff.

Honestly, how many vanguards have you seen dominating infiltrators and adepts on gold?

Modifié par molecularman, 09 juin 2012 - 11:11 .

[vivanto]

Keep quoting me out of context just to pick a fight? Not helping your case.

[GodlessPaladin]

vivanto wrote...

Keep quoting me out of context just to pick a fight? Not helping your case.

Nobody has "quoted you out of context."  There is no magical context that can justify your statement of calling Novaguards overpowered compared to everything.  In fact, the context actually makes you look worse, since the context establishes the benchmark of the modern day buffed Drell Adepts, Male Quarians, and Geth Infiltrators which clearly dominate the most successful run videos now, with or without missiles.

Or do you plan to show us some way a Human Vanguard can compete with this?
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 11:21 .

[vivanto]

Wrong, the context establishes that you need to be the host to utilize the vanguard's full potential. That doesn't change game balance, only shows poor implementation.

You suck at novaguards, that's fine. Fact remains, a good player hosting the game can easily score highest, even against any infiltrator while it even enhances your petty little Drell Adept's efficiency.

The only thing that makes you look worse is the fact that after 3 posts you still fail to notice the magical word host.

[GodlessPaladin]

vivanto wrote...
You suck at novaguards, that's fine.

Uh huh.  Tell me more. 

www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

vivanto wrote... The only thing that makes you look worse is the fact that after 3 posts you still fail to notice the magical word host.

Except I, you know, didn't.  Nowhere did I say anything like "non-host Vanguards aren't as good as Geth Infiltrators, Drell Adepts, and Male Quarians."  No, I'm pretty sure my position is that Vanguards under any circumstances aren't overpowered compared to Geth Infiltrators, Drell Adepts, and Male Quarians.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 11:27 .

[molecularman]

vivanto wrote...

Wrong, the context establishes that you need to be the host to utilize the vanguard's full potential. That doesn't change game balance, only shows poor implementation.

You suck at novaguards, that's fine. Fact remains, a good player hosting the game can easily score highest, even against any infiltrator while it even enhances your petty little Drell Adept's efficiency.

The only thing that makes you look worse is the fact that after 3 posts you still fail to notice the magical word host.

So GP is a bad novaguard, eh?

I think we all know that hosting part. That's just making vanguards even more rare than they are currently

[XenirAhlen]

Didn't the Krogan have health Regen in the demo? What happened to that?

[GodlessPaladin]

molecularman wrote...
So GP is a bad novaguard, eh?

  So bad. 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 11:28 .

[vivanto]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Or do you plan to show us some way a Human Vanguard can compete with this?
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

Nice, so you still insist on completely ignoring what I just said?

For the bajjilionth and last time, vanguards are hindered by being non-host. Now you show me something with 4 players? A full squad of novaguards could fully utilize only 1 of their memebers while you want to compare it to 4?

I always took you for one of the more sensible posters here but you keep ignoring something that's right in front of you.

[GodlessPaladin]

vivanto wrote...
For the bajjilionth and last time, vanguards are hindered by being non-host. Now you show me something with 4 players? A full squad of novaguards could fully utilize only 1 of their memebers while you want to compare it to 4?

I always took you for one of the more sensible posters here but you keep ignoring something that's right in front of you.

I'm not ignoring anything.  Where did I say you had to have 4 Vanguards on the team?  Nowhere.  Cut the dishonest BS. 

If you don't want me to point to a game with four players (oh no how unreasonable of me!), then I could point you to a 20 minute SOLO run with a Geth Infiltrator too.  Or doing just as well with my very first try with the Male Quarian Engineer as I was doing in my Novaguard solos.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 11:33 .

[Farmtech-Ru]

Did not read the whole thread, just reminding to try vanguard with reegar 10 before talking about offensive buff. Not sure if he needs one.

[vivanto]

Looking at your vids.. heavy weapon (relatively) , xbox, half-blast, boring-ass gameplay. Yeah, you're doing something wrong with that vanguard.

Wasn't dishonest, but if you insist, suit yourself.

[Xerorei]

vivanto wrote...

Looking at your vids.. heavy weapon (relatively) , xbox, half-blast, boring-ass gameplay. Yeah, you're doing something wrong with that vanguard.

Wasn't dishonest, but if you insist, suit yourself.

Sorry man I'm with GP here, you accused him of picking a fight when in reality YOU picked the fight, and took everything he said entirely out context, as well as fishing for someting to insult/argue with him for.  


Give It A Rest.

Having to HOST to play vanguard is not really a benefit, at all, because not everyone wants to host, so that means they shouldn't be able to play vanguard, but can play EVERY OTHER class, get outta here, no really get out, and take your BS with you.

[vivanto]

@Xerorei
Lots of crap you managed to gather, but this one takes the prize.

Xerorei wrote...
as well as fishing for someting to insult/argue with him for.

Xerorei wrote... 
get outta here, no really get out, and take your BS with you.

At least read your hypocritic nonsense before trying to give a lecture.

My initial point stands, just ignored and destroyed by quoting parts out of context while nobody really bothered to try and refute any of it properly.

Modifié par vivanto, 09 juin 2012 - 11:47 .

[GodlessPaladin]

vivanto wrote...
My initial point stands

  Your initial point never even had a single piece of supporting argumentation.  You just stated a conclusion that a hosting Vanguard is more powerful than everything.  Your initial point never stood on anything to begin with.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 11:49 .

[molecularman]

vivanto wrote...

@Xerorei
Lots of crap you managed to gather, but this one takes the prize.

Xerorei wrote...
as well as fishing for someting to insult/argue with him for.

Xerorei wrote... 
get outta here, no really get out, and take your BS with you.

At least read your hypocritic nonsense before trying to give a lecture.

My initial point stands, just ignored and destroyed by quoting parts out of context while nobody really bothered to try and refute any of it properly.

So, what exactly is your point? Vanguards don't work non-host and therefore are OP? Seriously, I didn't get it.

[vivanto]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

vivanto wrote...
My initial point stands

  Your initial point never even had a single piece of supporting argumentation.  You just stated a conclusion that a hosting Vanguard is more powerful than everything.  Your initial point never stood on anything to begin with.

I apologize for assumming logic from the forums then.

Yes, I stated and still stand by that a novaguard - when hosting - is OP. While that alone does not make the class too powerful since 3:4 will be inferior to that standard, buffing it will not solve the problem for the other three players. Non-host vanguards will still suck while the buff will only benefit a hosting vanguard, which doesn't need it.

So fix the bug (for real), then we can see if they still need a buff - likely not.