166 réponses à ce sujet

[xcrunr1647]

Tokenusername wrote...

I would love to see krogan regen, but balence wise for it to be viable it would have to be so small it wouldn;t even be worth it.

I disagree with you here. Everyone has those times where you get hit and only have half a pube of health left...take cover, let your shields regenerate, and let your health slowly regenerate. Idc how slow it is, it would be a game changer...not to mention lore-appropriate. 

I wouldn't expect the regeneration to be even close to as radical as the vorcha's...but perhaps 25% of the Vorcha's base regeneration rate. Just enough to top your health off after getting low. 

[Zkyire]

You know what I'd take for my Vanguard?

To be able to charge without running the risk of flying up into the sky, getting stuck and having to quit the mission.

(Your proposals are also good).

[Rodrrigoww]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Rodrrigoww wrote...

Ok guys I'm aware of the discussion going on , also , I've modified the initial post to some of the things you guys mentioned , two specifically , one being more specific about krogan's regen , and another being more realistical while making it actually a more efficent regarding vanguard's charge.Maybe we can get the attention of Bioware!

I don't think any of your problems would do much to address the primary issues Vanguards have in the current metagame.

Well , they mostly regard the issue of biotic charge not properly working.
If you buff nova and make them immune to stagger , i think it'd be too OP.
Two things kill my novaguards : lack of visible targets to charge on and instakills.You can't address the instakill problem , I think all of them , except banshee's are kinda predictable
And yeah , the dps is ridiculous indeed so a buff to nova as well, how does it sound?

[drmoose00]

TeamLexana wrote...

Krogans and Vangaurds already are viable classes as is, though I necasarily wouldn't take a vangaurd into gold but I would and have taken a Krogan Sentinal and Solider many a time into gold and did just fine.... just stay away from Geth, I don't know what it is but my Krogans seem to always get stun locked agaist Geth.

I cannot speak for the other vanguards, but I have been taing my Kroguard into gold and doing pretty well. He's got full shield/health, and I use a level V shield booster, and maybe even a cyclonic mod or shield regen consunable, so with well over 2000 shileds, I am pretty hardy. The only time I die is if I mischarge and end up in the middle of two bosses surrounded by a trash mob and I can't get out. Of course, I am using the reegar, so that helps... And I don't charge across the map without my team, I stay close and take the fire. Its pretty fun standing in ront of a GI or GE, taking the fire while he does some task, or rushing a warped enemy to boom it. Being able to recharge the shields up to 2000+ every 3-4 sec makes this character extrememly gold viable.

But I have to host......

Modifié par lemon00, 09 juin 2012 - 06:45 .

[vivanto]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Uhh, you were the one who was saying that the Novaguard was overpowered compared to everything.  The GI is a part of everything.  The Drell Adept is part of everything.  Male Quarians are part of everything.

Yes, in the context that it doesn't need a buff because that will not solve anything to those who need it but will overpower those who don't, something you keep missing since post #1.

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Again, where are you getting this "x3" from?  Pretty sure you just made that part up.

From the same place you pulled out your x3 mod for 3 shots. As estabilished by one of your friends some pages back, Nova hits up to 3 targets, which is a shame really.

GodlessPaladin wrote... 

vivanto wrote...
I'm curious however how your wonderful Geth fares in the shield department with hunter mode, spamming heavy melee and constantly cloaking. It trades even that little survivability it had to damage, which is fair. The novaguard is - bare bugs - invincible if played well while still dishing out a significant damage at any point on the map.

Except it's not.  The Novaguard is, if anything, more vulnerable to actually being taken out of a wave permanently than most other classes due to the threat of sync kills (at least from Cerberus and Reapers.  Geth compensate with staggers and sneaky turrets which will down Vanguards).  Even the very best players, as shown in videos of players like Zhhk doing speedruns and getting grabbed.   Or maybe you just think they're all "bad vanguards" too.  <_<

The Novaguard will die quickly from rapid fire attacks that sneak in hits between invincibility frames, from anything that staggers them (such as melee attacks), or from magnetic extending clown hand sync kills.  The hosting Vanguard is not invincible.

Evading the question as usual eh?

Except, they are. The novaguard is only vulnerable to banshees, crazy players and bugs, nothing else. With recharge buff on nova, your cooldown is less than 3 seconds, most of it you spend in the charge and nova animations. There's nothing that can take you down with only a fraction of a second of vulnerability, not cerberus turrets, not geth.

You did however indirectly make me convince myself that they shouldn't get a proper fix, that indeed would make them unkillable.

[GodlessPaladin]

vivanto wrote...
Yes, in the context that it doesn't need a buff because that will not solve anything to those who need it but will overpower those who don't, something you keep missing since post #1.

  You keep claiming that and it is still, as I and others have pointed out, disingenuous of you.  We disagree that a hosting Vanguard is overpowered or will become overpowered by any positive change to the Vanguard class.  At no point was anything you said "ignored," "missed," or anything of the sort.

vivanto wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Again, where are you getting this "x3" from?  Pretty sure you just made that part up.

From
the same place you pulled out your x3 mod for 3 shots. As estabilished by one of your friends some pages back, Nova hits up to 3 targets, which is a shame really.

  Okay, so you're not actually doing 3000 damage, you're doing around 1100 damage per target to a small group, which isn't actually very good, as established by the extensive posts presenting hard math prior to yours.

Evading the question as usual eh?

   You are the only one here who can't see that I'm doing the answering and you're doing the evading.  As I've said before, I'm actually at less risk of dying with the Geth Infiltrator and honestly, it shouldn't be hard for you to see why since you yourself are arguing that a class with one of the lowest total effective health/shield values in the game is invincible.  Simply looking at the health/shield stat is not a terribly useful benchmark for determining a class's survivability.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 07:04 .

[vivanto]

Ohh, so you keep using that word to actually only describe you disagree or that I'm wrong instead of accusing me of lying? That changes things.

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Okay, so you're not actually doing 3000 damage, you're doing around 1100 damage per target to a small group, which isn't actually very good, as established by the extensive posts presenting hard math prior to yours.

Same way you're not doing 3000 AOE damage with a sniper save the Krysae, which has been beaten to death since the DLC release.

GodlessPaladin wrote...
you yourself are arguing that a class with one of the lowest total effective health/shield values in the game is invincible

Excuse me?

Modifié par vivanto, 09 juin 2012 - 07:06 .

[Rodrrigoww]

Hey GodlessPaladin , what do you think about a Nova that could set biotic explosions?

[GodlessPaladin]

vivanto wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Okay, so you're not actually doing 3000 damage, you're doing around 1100 damage per target to a small group, which isn't actually very good, as established by the extensive posts presenting hard math prior to yours.

Same way you're not doing 3000 AOE damage with a sniper save the Krysae, which has been beaten to death since the DLC release.

Again with the disingenuous arguments.  Nobody ever said you were doing 3000 AoE damage with other sniper rifles.  Heck, this is in the context of me already establishing that the GI does around 3000 AoE damage in the same radius as Nova hitting an unlimited number of targets *per melee* in addition to proximity mine and usefully debuffing the enemy for everyone.

If we want to look at other sniper rifles though... first I'd ask "Why are you using these things on a Geth Infiltrator instead of a Claymore?"

On a Salarian Infiltrator, a Black Widow is essentially 2 guaranteed kills per cloak cycle... at least.  More often, I get a free tech burst, get extra hits from target penetration, and sometimes even get some extra collateral damage from energy drain or proximity mine kills.

Energy Drain immediately removes the shields of most enemies and a single shot will instantly kill any shieldless enemy in the Cerberus faction other than an Atlas.  While plugging away at Atlasses, of course, I get to kill everything within a goodly radius of it as I plug it with tech bursts and proximity mines.

On top of that, the Salarian Infiltrator is extremely resilient.  He's got above average shields, an ability which recharges them, and can even get 40% DR if he feels like it.  All while staying at a very safe range and having Cloak.  If you want to talk about guys who are really hard to kill...

With a Geth Infiltrator, I suppose I'd be using an Indra and a VI instead, in which case I'm doing about 750-900 damage per shot and have 25 shots in a clip and can get most of those shots off in a cloak window along with a proximity mine.  But maybe you think with that much damage output I can't take out 3 different targets in 3 seconds...?

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 07:25 .

[vivanto]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
If we want to look at other sniper rifles though... first I'd ask "Why are you using these things on a Geth Infiltrator instead of a Claymore?"

I'm not using any of them. You were the one to post a GI breakdown with the Krysae. You can do that or the melee. With the melee there is the obvious tradeoff for the insane damage potential, but then you lose one of your argument points being survivability via snipers.

[GodlessPaladin]

vivanto wrote...  but then you lose one of your argument points being survivability via snipers.

Uhhh, no I don't.  First off because I never said that SNIPER RIFLES were the reason the GI was survivable, you just made that silly assumption yourself. 

Second off, look how often I die as a melee GI in games with completely unhelpful pubs.  Got plenty of videos up.  Moreover, I sacrifice next to no claymore weapon damage on my GI melee build.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 07:20 .

[GODzilla]

I like the idea, but for balance reason I'd say that the barrier should either stay as it is, or regenerate even slower. To be honest, having ones health regenerate is a HUGE advantage. How often did a new round start, with my shield still down due to the last attack of the round before, leaving my health at just one point. -.-

I accept it because that's how the game works for most of the races. Krogans are different, so it should reflect that in MP, too.

[vivanto]

@GodlessPaladin
Claymore/Melee is still within sync-kill range, which is about the only point you can make against the novaguard's vulnerability.

I've seen a GI go down way more often than novaguards, granted whenever we have a HV in our group, it's the host. Neither of them were just random pugs.

edit

Uhhh, no I don't. First off because I never said that SNIPER RIFLES were the reason the GI was survivable, you just made that silly assumption yourself.

Read back. Wasn't you, you went straight for the broken krysae, but more sensible arguments were made that infiltrators do the same or more damage with better survivability via snipers. Hence the assertion that while snipers indeed can do a lot of single-target damage, novaguard is comparable via AoE.

Modifié par vivanto, 09 juin 2012 - 07:28 .

[GodlessPaladin]

vivanto wrote... Read back. Wasn't you.

How about you read back?  This was you:

but then you lose one of your argument points being survivability via snipers.

Could you be any more disingenuous?

vivanto wrote...

@GodlessPaladin
Claymore/Melee is still within sync-kill range, which is about the only point you can make against the novaguard's vulnerability.

  First, I have no need to get within sync-kill range... I can just rely on Claymore DPS which is MORE EFFECTIVE than melee on the big guys.  The melee is for mook groups and Phantoms.

Second, sync kills are not the only thing I mentioned when pointing out that the Vanguard is not invincible.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 07:34 .

[vivanto]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Second, sync kills are not the only thing I mentioned when pointing out that the Vanguard is not invincible.

Except that not everything you mention is correct.

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Could you be any more dishonest?

Ever heard of the term general you, or you're going to pull a grammar nazi on me?

Modifié par vivanto, 09 juin 2012 - 07:37 .

[Stance Punk]

Slower than the Vorcha's for sure. Maybe kinda like how the shields recharge but not as fast. Regenerates after a moment of no damage taken.

[GodlessPaladin]

Let's do this again. Here's CLAYMORE DAMAGE:

Base damage: 1648
+90%+25%+25%+35%+30%+15%+22.5% = 3.425x 2.525x
5644.4 damage, or 6773.28 with proximity mine and it mows down an entire row of enemies from medium range and pierces cover.

In one cloak cycle, I get two of those shots, except one without the cloak bonus. I ALSO get a proximity mine. Potentially, I'm looking at 4993.44 + 6773.28 + 1972 damage to a single target and portions of that spread out to multiple targets. I can also sneak a melee attack into that cycle if I feel like it. I could also get headshots but why bother?

13,738.72 damage, 1972 damage (or more if you proxied before) plus a debuff to everything in 4.5m, all the rest in a cone of death.  And the whole process doesn't actually take me 3 whole seconds.

While doing this the threat to me is very small.  Enemies cannot react during the amount of time it takes me to fire my gun, and I'm in next to zero danger of being hit while maneuvering.  I can't even be surprised by anything because I have a bloody wallhack.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 07:53 .

[GodlessPaladin]

(Double post)

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 07:45 .

[molecularman]

If comparing to infiltrators and drells is not enough... How about the ordinary asari adept? She can do a biotic explosion in roughly the same time as vanguard does one charge-nova cycle. The difference happens to be that she will do some 3000 damage as opposed to novaguard's 1500 something (assuming all the damage/recharge bonuses you WON'T have active continuosly). Her BE also has (a lot) larger radius. And she can crowd control just fine with that BE. And she doesn't expose herself at all, being a lot less risky.

What this basically means, is that while this adept and novaguard are very similar there's virtually no reason to pick vanguard over adept. I can't see how the vanguard is OP then.

[GodlessPaladin]

molecularman wrote... I can't see how the vanguard is OP then.

Well obviously you just must be "ignoring the point." 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 09 juin 2012 - 07:48 .

[molecularman]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Well obviously you just must be "ignoring the point" 

That must be it!

[Rodrrigoww]

Nova should set up biotic explosions , now that would be worth the risk , i mean , adepts can do it from a far and safely and warm behind their covers and team mates.

[molecularman]

Rodrrigoww wrote...

Nova should set up biotic explosions , now that would be worth the risk , i mean , adepts can do it from a far and safely and warm behind their covers and team mates.

Well, it definitely isn't too great currently.

[vivanto]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Well obviously you just must be "ignoring the point." 

Amusingly, you are.  

I already acknowledged the damage potential of the novaguard - even if I was generous by not using any equipments.

Yet you still keep beating on the same damn thing while all you have to say about survivability is that the vanguard has less health/shield than your geth?