151 réponses à ce sujet

[wsandista]

Ryzaki wrote...

Did you mention how they were overly dark and you couldn't stand it and you made them beautiful? Because if not then no I don't care. But if you did yes I'd say you had questionable motives for doing so.

It's not like the mod creator mentioned Izzy's blotchy skin. He said she was overly dark. I'm sorry but there's no way to make that look pleasant. There's just not.

That is ONE guy though. Not everyone who changes Isabela's skin tone is like that though.

[Sabariel]

If Leliana and Morrigan were women of color and you made them white, yes, that would be tasteless and gross and racist.

Yes, it is tasteless and gross and racist if you white-mod Isabela for ANY reason.

WHY is this concept so damned hard to grasp?

[Ryzaki]

wsandista wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Did you mention how they were overly dark and you couldn't stand it and you made them beautiful? Because if not then no I don't care. But if you did yes I'd say you had questionable motives for doing so.

It's not like the mod creator mentioned Izzy's blotchy skin. He said she was overly dark. I'm sorry but there's no way to make that look pleasant. There's just not.

That is ONE guy though. Not everyone who changes Isabela's skin tone is like that though.

That was the mod creator!

That's who I feel disgusted towards. Him and everyone who follows that logic.

[wsandista]

Filament wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Filament wrote...

There's a lot more to racism than direct hatred. For instance, low expectations. For instance, everything after and before "(just not my type)."

I'm not attracted to very skinny girls, does that make me prejudiced against them?

If that were the case, wouldn't I have said "everything after and before and within"?

I didn't say that, did I?

You can still have the label if you want it, though.

Can you clarify your point then?

[wsandista]

Ryzaki wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Did you mention how they were overly dark and you couldn't stand it and you made them beautiful? Because if not then no I don't care. But if you did yes I'd say you had questionable motives for doing so.

It's not like the mod creator mentioned Izzy's blotchy skin. He said she was overly dark. I'm sorry but there's no way to make that look pleasant. There's just not.

That is ONE guy though. Not everyone who changes Isabela's skin tone is like that though.

That was the mod creator!

That's who I feel disgusted towards. Him and everyone who follows that logic.

I used a similar mod.



I liked it better than vanilla. I didn't use it because I thought Isabela was disgustingly dark, I used it because I like the way she looks with red hair and pale skin more.

Realmzmaster wrote...

What also made me wonder was that it was one of the most download mods on dragon nexus. So I can only assume that it is the preference of a great many people. Makes me go hmmm.

*shrug* The blond haired, blue-eyed, busty woman is one of the most featured types in a certain industry. I guess people simply like the look.

Modifié par wsandista, 12 juin 2012 - 05:13 .

[Realmzmaster]

wsandista wrote...

Snip

The fact that you change them to suit your taste is fine, but did you write a description that says I did not like her overly dark everything? That is what people on this fourm are pointing out and saying he made a new kind of beauty when all he did was make her white, blonde and blue eyed. Like something was wrong with the dark skinned, dark hair and brown eyes. Well I guess  in his eyesight maybe it was. What a person does in their personal game I could care less. It is the description I take issue with.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 12 juin 2012 - 05:15 .

[Sabariel]

wsandista wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Did you mention how they were overly dark and you couldn't stand it and you made them beautiful? Because if not then no I don't care. But if you did yes I'd say you had questionable motives for doing so.

It's not like the mod creator mentioned Izzy's blotchy skin. He said she was overly dark. I'm sorry but there's no way to make that look pleasant. There's just not.

That is ONE guy though. Not everyone who changes Isabela's skin tone is like that though.

That was the mod creator!

That's who I feel disgusted towards. Him and everyone who follows that logic.

I used a similar mod.



I liked it better than vanilla. I didn't use it because I thought Isabela was disgustingly dark, I used it because I like the way she looks with red hair and pale skin more.

.......And that is tasteless and gross and racist.

[Flashflame58]

Sabariel wrote...

wsandista wrote...
I like the way she looks with red hair and pale skin more.

.......And that is tasteless and gross and racist.

Would it be "tasteless and gross and racist" if someone modded Aveline to be dark-skinned and dark-haired?

Modifié par Flashflame58, 12 juin 2012 - 05:20 .

[Ryzaki]

Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Snip

The fact that you change them to suit your taste is fine, but did you write a description that says I did not like her overly dark everything? That is what people on this fourm are pointing out and saying he made a new kind of beauty when all he did was make her white, blonde and blue eyed. Like something was wrong with the dark skinned, dark hair and brown eyes. Well I guess  in his eyesight maybe it was. What a person does in their personal game I could care less. It is the description I take issue with.

This by god. If you can't tell the difference man just stop. The description is to me anyway disgusting.

[wsandista]

Filament wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Can you clarify your point then?

There's nothing necessarily wrong with having a certain "type." There is something wrong with saying, "I can't stand [someone who's not my type]'s [racial characteristic]." With being disgusted by it and wanting to change it to a more appealing racial characteristic. It seems pretty obvious.

Skinny girls aren't exactly the same thing, either, since people's actions determine their weight (at least, if they have food security). But it'd still be a little bit douchey to speak of skinny girls with disgust and suggest fattening them up.

I agree, his description was pretty dickish. I just don't like having everyone who changes Isabela to look paler be called racist.

Ryzaki wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Snip

The fact that you change them to suit your taste is fine, but did you write a description that says I did not like her overly dark everything? That is what people on this fourm are pointing out and saying he made a new kind of beauty when all he did was make her white, blonde and blue eyed. Like something was wrong with the dark skinned, dark hair and brown eyes. Well I guess  in his eyesight maybe it was. What a person does in their personal game I could care less. It is the description I take issue with.

This by god. If you can't tell the difference man just stop. The description is to me anyway disgusting.

I agree his description was quite dickish, but i disagree that ANYONE who mods Isabela is automatically a racist.

Modifié par wsandista, 12 juin 2012 - 05:22 .

[Realmzmaster]

Flashflame58 wrote...


Would it be "tasteless and gross and racist" if someone modded Aveline to be dark-skinned and dark-haired?

I do not think it is tasteless, gross or racist what a person does in their own playthrough. What I do take issue with is the description that goes with the mod. That is what most of people on the thread are pointing out. It would be equally offensive to me if someone modded Aveline and gave as a description. I did not like her overall fair everything so I darken her up, gave her silky black hair, beautiful brown eyes and  raised her to a whole new level of ebony beauty.

[Sabariel]

Flashflame58 wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

wsandista wrote...
I like the way she looks with red hair and pale skin more.

.......And that is tasteless and gross and racist.

Would it be "tasteless and gross and racist" if someone modded Aveline to be dark-skinned and dark-haired?

Uh, no. Because white women are not constantly erased and disregarded and modded to be more "acceptable".

[Flashflame58]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Flashflame58 wrote...


Would it be "tasteless and gross and racist" if someone modded Aveline to be dark-skinned and dark-haired?

I do not think it is tasteless, gross or racist what a person does in their own playthrough. What I do take issue with is the description that goes with the mod. That is what most of people on the thread are pointing out. It would be equally offensive to me if someone modded Aveline and gave as a description. I did not like her overall fair everything so I darken her up, gave her silky black hair, beautiful brown eyes and  raised her to a whole new level of ebony beauty.

I don't take issue with anything you're saying, and I agree. People have the right to mod their characters however they desire. But yes, that description is racist.

But the user I quoted, I do take issue with their comments.

"
If Leliana and Morrigan were women of color and you made them white, yes, that would be tasteless and gross and racist.

Yes, it is tasteless and gross and racist if you white-mod Isabela for ANY reason.

WHY is this concept so damned hard to grasp? "

S/he clearly does grasp the idea that certain people have personal preferences, and that does not brand them a racist. Like my example above, if someone were to mod Aveline to be dark skinned, eyed, and have dark hair, I'm sure s/he would take no issue with that.

[wsandista]

Sabariel wrote...

Flashflame58 wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

wsandista wrote...
I like the way she looks with red hair and pale skin more.

.......And that is tasteless and gross and racist.

Would it be "tasteless and gross and racist" if someone modded Aveline to be dark-skinned and dark-haired?

Uh, no. Because white women are not constantly erased and disregarded and modded to be more "acceptable".

So you admit you have a double standard?

Actually, if anyone here is a racist, I'd say it would be you.

Modifié par wsandista, 12 juin 2012 - 05:33 .

[Flashflame58]

Sabariel wrote...

Flashflame58 wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

wsandista wrote...
I like the way she looks with red hair and pale skin more.

.......And that is tasteless and gross and racist.

Would it be "tasteless and gross and racist" if someone modded Aveline to be dark-skinned and dark-haired?

Uh, no. Because white women are not constantly erased and disregarded and modded to be more "acceptable".

So what you're basically saying is that it is okay to be racist against fair-skinned people because it doesn't happen to them as often as it does to dark-skinned people. Am I right?

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Racists, racists everywhere.

[Realmzmaster]

If you belong to certain ethnic groups that has long had a supposed and imposed standard of beauty thrown in their face and had to adhere to that standard to get hired or noticed then yes you may develop (rightly or wrongly) a double standard. People reflect the experiences that they have had in their lives. It colors their opinion and judgement.

Everybody looks at issues through the lens of their own life and experience.

[Flashflame58]

Realmzmaster wrote...

If you belong to certain ethnic groups that has long had a supposed and imposed standard of beauty thrown in their face and had to adhere to that standard to get hired or noticed then yes you may develop (rightly or wrongly) a double standard. People reflect the experiences that they have had in their lives. It colors their opinion and judgement.

Everybody looks at issues through the lens of their own life and experience.

But I don't think that justifies racism.

[wsandista]

Flashflame58 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

If you belong to certain ethnic groups that has long had a supposed and imposed standard of beauty thrown in their face and had to adhere to that standard to get hired or noticed then yes you may develop (rightly or wrongly) a double standard. People reflect the experiences that they have had in their lives. It colors their opinion and judgement.

Everybody looks at issues through the lens of their own life and experience.

But I don't think that justifies racism.

Exactly. If I change Isabela to look pale and I am racist, anyone who changes Aveline to look dark is a racist.

It is exactly the same concept.

[AndrahilAdrian]

If not being attracted to a particular race makes you racist, then being gay makes you sexist.
lack of physical attraction does not equal prejudice.

Modifié par AndrahilAdrian, 12 juin 2012 - 05:56 .

[Realmzmaster]

Flashflame58 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

If you belong to certain ethnic groups that has long had a supposed and imposed standard of beauty thrown in their face and had to adhere to that standard to get hired or noticed then yes you may develop (rightly or wrongly) a double standard. People reflect the experiences that they have had in their lives. It colors their opinion and judgement.

Everybody looks at issues through the lens of their own life and experience.

But I don't think that justifies racism.

I never said it justified racism, but somewhere in their life experience that person was taught or learn  to hate a particular ethnic group for whatever reason. It could be a bad experience or experiences with that ethnic group. Does it make it right? No.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 12 juin 2012 - 05:57 .

[Flashflame58]

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

If not being attracted to a particular race makes you racist, then being gay makes you sexist.

+1