19 réponses à ce sujet

[Rolo Kipp]

 <getting a...>

This is a call to people who are good with getting their heads together :-)

What I would like is a set of PC reference heads to be used with head-aligned effects to allow more player customization options. The heads would be bald (not even eye-brows) and totally bland. There should be one for each race and gender and basic pheno (24 heads?).

If we have a set of reference heads to work from then all our individual efforts at custom VFX will *fit* properly together. One person might build a set of Pippi Longstocking red-headed pig-tails <uggh. boss, i'm eating here!>
Someone else (like cestus) might work on a full-bent briar with multiple types of smoke emitters. Or a stogie. ;-) <boss, come on...>
You're eating snails and you complain about *my* taste? <they're rainbow snails, old man. from the bay of stones>
What ev. I'd also like to see scars, earrings, headbands, "big eyes", vampire fangs... <oh, just stop. save it for the challenge, wizard>
Well. Forgive me for being enthusiastic! <maybe. later...>
Grrrr.
So what about it? Big C? S-H? Anyone? Want to put up a "Reference Head Pack"? 

Edit: Oh! And make them higher poly than the old BW heads. Modern machines can handle it for the few PCs in a game and the PCs *should* look better. We are l33t, after all. Right?

<...head start)

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 09 juin 2012 - 06:15 .

[Rolo Kipp]

<bumping...>

Ok, I've started putting together some low-poly reference heads from the default bioware heads.

When I get them together, I'll put up the zip on the Reference Head project ;-)

<...into things>

[OldTimeRadio]

I meant to mention this yesterday, Rolo but I must have forgotten.  If you run into big problems finding good higher poly base heads to work on, you should really consider rooting through the converted KOTOR heads by Estelindis.  There might be some minor oddities with them, nothing a player would probably notice (independent eyelid models, IIRC), but they fit the criteria of what you're looking for.

One of the best features of the pack is it contains a number of bald heads, which might make reference creation a little easier.

[Rolo Kipp]

<dancing like...>

WooHOO! I love that woman :-)

Thanks, OTR. Perhaps I should have done more research, but I was hoping someone would step up and I am *sooooo* busy :-P

But that fits the bill nicely :-)

<...a fool>

[henesua]

Yes, I am using those heads in Arnheim too. They are good quality.

Oddly some of those heads crash my dev computer (a 6 year old laptop with integrated graphics) when I am using the toolset making NPCs, but only when I go back and edit them and change things like color, not when I create them. The work around has been to edit the appearance and clothing without the head, then put the head on last.

I am almost certain that it is not a problem with the models, but the way the toolset suddenly requires a redraw of the model when you make a color change of an NPC or change the clothing. And probably only affects people like me running "ancient" hardware with a crappy gfx card.

[OldTimeRadio]

Maybe...but models shouldn't crash NWN under any circumstance.  There have been things attached to models like light sources which have been claimed to cause intermittant crashes and that's sort of a different animal.  I would make sure those models are compiled.  I can't ever think of a precompiled model that ever caused an intermittant crash- that didn't have something weird on it like a light source or basically something that caused a crash for another reason.

I've taken render quality models and got them to work fine in NWN.  Last Sunday I did these (1,2) and they worked fine, and they're far below some of the models I've done.  Also, NWN does shadows horribly.  IMO, people should never use shadows.  They're broken as hell in NWN and it could be the shadows causing them to get tweaky.

[WebShaman]

You might wish to speak with AD on this - he has done some of this work already for head VFXs and bald heads for the races...

[Rubies]

What I would like is a set of PC reference heads to be used with head-aligned effects to allow more player customization options. The heads would be bald (not even eye-brows) and totally bland. There should be one for each race and gender and basic pheno (24 heads?).

If you need those I can PM you some head models based on the KotOR ones, but with about 1/4 of the poly count and less intensive shadows. I think they're about 460 polys each, and I can probably map/texture them in a few hours. Unfortunately I don't have one for each race, though, just humans. :x

EDIT: Really should've read the rest of the thread first. /hides

Modifié par Rubies, 14 juin 2012 - 02:25 .

[henesua]

OldTimeRadio wrote...

Maybe...but models shouldn't crash NWN under any circumstance. 

It is only in the toolset, when editing NPC appearance. Under no other circumstances do these heads cause a crash. And they don't just crash NWN but my machine locks up and goes down.

I suspect its a problem with my GFX card and Windows XP together. I also notice other visual artifacts with that combo. Trasparencies in NWN don't always work being one of the most obvious and common problems. These problems go away when I run OS X or Ubutu on the same machine (although I have not run NWN in Ubuntu). My other machine - desktop and server - never has these difficulties. It has a much better GFX card, and never runs windows.

[Rolo Kipp]

<holding a wish in one hand...>

WebShaman wrote...
You might wish to speak with AD on this - he has done some of this work already for head VFXs and bald heads for the races...

I *do* wish to speak with AD :-) Actually, I wish he was in the Bay Area and we could sit down over coffee and chat <gossip> whatever.

But I am also very conscious of bumping his elbow and I know he reads my posts ;-) Complicating that is that I do not feel comfortable targeting specific people (like those fine gentlemen doing so much head-goodness lately) to pony up. :-P So I make it an open request. Not just for head models, BTW. I'd like to see quality hair textures in at least the common shades (as VFX don't use PLTs and most hair in NwN is mediocre) - blonde, brunette, black, red & grey/silver. 

TADis incredibly generous with what he does release for use but there is premium content he reserves for Aenea and I totally respect that. 

I only spew that bit forth so you understand both that I listen to your advice and that I'm not jumping on this bit.<jeez, you're pompous this morning, boss>
It's my job. I'm good at it. <no arguement  there, wizard>

<...and wishing it hadn't already been used>

[Rolo Kipp]

<looking surprised...>

Rubies! I love you, woman! Or at least your stuff :-)
That female human head is *exactly* the sort of thing I want. More faces than bioware, with the greatest improvement focused on the features. Yes! Yes! <suppose you're going to smoke now?>
Oh hush, bird.

<...when his wish is answered>

[Rolo Kipp]

<edging into..>

henesua wrote...
I suspect its a problem with my GFX card and Windows XP together. I also notice other visual artifacts with that combo. Trasparencies in NWN don't always work being one of the most obvious and common problems. These problems go away when I run OS X or Ubutu on the same machine (although I have not run NWN in Ubuntu). My other machine - desktop and server - never has these difficulties. It has a much better GFX card, and never runs windows.

Very likely it is how your gfx card interacts with how poorly the (different) tooleset engine handles shadows. Those dense heads quite probably have at least one pair of shadowcasting faces that point at each other (concave). That *really* causes problems in both graphics engines, but, as we know, the toolset engine was never brought up to the same level as the game engine - just the fact that reflective armor & placeables are transparent in the toolset shows that. I suspect the toolset shadow handling is in even worse shape than the game engine. <rambling..>

Right. What I mean to point out is that models really need to avoid concave *shadow-casters*. If necessary, remove all shadows and add on a non-rendering blob to cast the shadow. <blob?>
Heh. Hush.

<...concave shadows>

[henesua]

Good points, Rolo. Thanks!

[The Amethyst Dragon]

It would be cool to meet other NWNers in person, but family commitments as a stay at home dad and monetary costs prevent travel.

It's been a long time since I had time to work on head VFX.  I have ambitions of making many more such VFX than I currently have in my PW, but time constraints are really starting to get in my way.  I figure I've got at least 2 years worth of things to do on my list (if I was able to work 40 hours a week on them).

If I get more than a couple minutes of free time, I'll see if I can dig out the bald heads and reference models I use.  They aren't higher poly than the default models, since I just modified the basic models to remove most of the hair.  I do recall that dwarves at least still have their eyebrows on my models.

Modifié par The Amethyst Dragon, 14 juin 2012 - 06:12 .

[Rolo Kipp]

<wheeling...>

Now, if we can *start* with those low-poly reference heads, I'll rig up some default scenes (unless you have them handy...) with the head models located so the head-node would be at 0,0,0. That way, when we go to create a new head-aligned VFX, we can just import the VFX model into the reference scene, adjust it to fit the gender-race head and export it.

Then we get "someone" to write a tutorial on how to use the scenes to create head-aligned VFX ... <getting ahead of ourselves, are we?>
Heh.

Later on, we can upgrade the heads to higher poly/textures and increase the variety.
I mean the ones that Rubies hasn't already started =)

Now, for the hair, who do we know who is a professional photographer and has offered to make quality textures...<I wonder...> ;-)

Edit: Eyebrows aren't a deal-breaker. I just envision creating angry/surprised/sleeping VFX that would raise/quirk/lower eyebrows, over-write eyes and mouth. A little animation for PCs... way down the road.

Edit 2: I'm hoping to have something put together before the "PC Customization" theme is voted in to help people try their hand at VFX. So the CCC Reference Head Pack would be a special, non-monthly upload to the vault. That's the idea, anyway. There is just so much potential in head & impact aligned VFX to *not* push its content.

<...and dealing>

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 14 juin 2012 - 04:42 .

[Rolo Kipp]

<watching the egg hatch...>

The Amethyst Dragon wrote...
It would be cool to meet other NWNers in person, but family commitments as a stay at home dad and monetary costs prevent travel.

How did your sticker work at Pheonix Comicon? Meet anyone who knew the Amethyst Dragon?

<...in its bed of ashes

[The Amethyst Dragon]

Rolo Kipp wrote...
How did your sticker work at Pheonix Comicon? Meet anyone who knew the Amethyst Dragon

Not a bite.  Comicon seems much more geared toward comics/anime/constuming than general scifi stuff or gaming. Wish I could get to Gencon again...

As far as the working models go, they are gmax scenes with the aurora bases and heads properly (painstakingly, ugh) positioned already.  Some head nodes are off-center, others farther forward or back, others higher or lower than that of humans.  A long time back I actually made up a high-poly positioning VFX to get things to line up right.  I just need to find out what I did with the files...I don't remember the file names off-hand and it's been long enough to push them off the "recent scenes" list.

[Rolo Kipp]

<whistling...>

No pressure :-) It's enough to know you care =) <puh-*leeze*>

Besides, I decided <silly wizard> to upgrade to Max 2012... 3GB+ and my connection is *crawling* :-( Too many people @ *B.
Probably wont finish the DL until Sat. :-/ But it means I'm working on <*gasp*> work today and tomorrow... <twiddling your thumbs is working?>
Someone speaking to you? <grumpy, much?>
*Any*-way...

Sad to hear about Comicon. Was hoping *someone* from the NwN community would wander by there.

<...and fidgeting>

[WebShaman]

Oh, I was at a Gencon! Met Gary Gygax there, got DMed by him in an event!

That brings back memories...there was a HUUUUUUGE Empire of the Petal Throne event.

And I got to play a neat version of Warhammer with lone heroes...I was a Wraith! W00t!

We went as Troubleshooters from Paranoia...hehe. We had red overalls and Laser Tag gear on!

[Rolo Kipp]

 <trying to explain things...>

I've created the "CC Maker's" project on the Vault and uploaded the very basics of the Head-aligned VFX scenes for 3DS Max 2010.

All the base pheno 0 heads are in one scene. All the heads are aligned so that VFX models fitted to them will be in the correct position on the PC when the Effect is added.

The idea is to open the scene (which should open with only the Human Female head visible) and hide the heads you are not working on, revealing the head you are. TAD has provided an Aurora base that each head is attached to with a logical naming convention already in place (just replace the "xxxxx" part ;-).

So you sculpt your VFX, link it to that base, unlink the head geometry and export it.

As always, work with copies of the template scene, do not save the battle-scarred scene when you are done hacking and slashing to the template :-P

<...to himself>