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More human DLC characters? Really BioWare? Really?


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#201
Razhathael

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Cyonan wrote...

Razhathael wrote...

I agree, it's not lazy, it's uninspired. Heck, they could have been lazy and added retextured turians as different classes and that would have been more preferable to most. If this leak is true, it's almost like they wanted to avoid doing what most wanted.


I would argue that it's not any more uninspired when compared to adding 2 Drell, Salarian, and Turian which people would have been happy with. All of them have already been done before, so they're all technically uninspired by the definition of the word.

What people have an issue with is that humans are seen as kind of boring. We're all already human, so when we play a role playing game, we want to play as something different from us. That's kind of the essence of what "role playing" is.

Though people should refrain from saying things like they're lazy or it's uninspired unless they also have issues with them adding in species like Turian, Drell, Krogan, etc. that we already have. It cheapens their argument, imo.


No, it is uninspired. Look at it this way, you're part of the ME3 multiplayer team, you get to decide what the next DLC is going to have inside it. And you decide 6 more n7-humans. It's a bad idea by all means, when you have such a vast universe full of possibilites and stuff the fans would want in front of you, I would call adding 6 more n7 trained humans and nothing else very uninspired. You say adding something like Krogan engineer or a maybe collectors as enemies is just as uninspired since they exist in the lore too and are predictable. But they haven't been in multiplayer, they are a full possibility that people would want. Humans who have had somehow different n7-training isn't original. Earth map or no, I don't remember seeing salarians or asari with the last DLC.

I don't know, maybe I misunderstand the word, I'm not native on english, but even so I would call pulling this kind thing quite stupid.

Modifié par Razhathael, 09 juin 2012 - 09:54 .


#202
dream3873

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Granted Halo has been in the MP community for a while, just look at the way they are developing spartan ops. I'm sure the folks at BW are some smart folks that could have though along those line. I'm inclined to think that perhaps they have budget problems.

#203
Siran

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If those humans are as awesome as the ones they introduced with Rebellion, then HELL YEAH! Especially since every DLC has been themed in a way. And if its about the fight for Earth, then it's all the more reasonable to introduce new human characters.

Dunno why people always complain about free stuff. I'm really looking forward to the DLC, especially the new locations and weapons, they sound interesting :)

Modifié par Siran, 09 juin 2012 - 09:53 .


#204
Sparrow44

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As long as these human characters are pretty unique and all have their own unique powers and skillsets then I really don't mind what race they are.

Also the Fury character needs to borrow the Flamer skill from the Vorcha.

#205
Gamemako

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Siran wrote...

Dunno why people always complain about free stuff.


I offer free feces sandwiches, get them while they last!

#206
Someone With Mass

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Had it been three humans, I would have accepted it, but six?

Wasted potential, be thy name.

#207
CroGamer002

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It smells fake.

#208
dream3873

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If this is true its just insulting that all the suggestions on the forums were never considered. The fans are telling you what will keep them interested and the listener just turns his nose?

#209
S3Plan

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I'd love to see Shadow Broker agents/troops made available as MP characters. I wouldn't particularly care if they were human, but it'd be nice if the asari Vanguards and salarian Engineers from LotSB were available.

#210
Razhathael

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ntrisley wrote...

Razhathael wrote...
I agree, it's not lazy, it's uninspired. Heck, they could have been lazy and added retextured turians as different classes and that would have been more preferable to most. If this leak is true, it's almost like they wanted to avoid doing what most wanted.

Did you ever consider that these DLCs are not being done for "what most wanted"?

BioWare has, from all rational outward viewers, a plan of how they were releasing the DLC for multiplayer.
The fact that certain things have been released which matched community wants/desires is, at best, easy to write off as a coincidence or foresight on BioWare's part. 
The idea of adding the "signature" Asari Justicar and Krogan Battlemaster is likely not one which they thought up of one morning.
The idea of adding the Geth as playable characters is, again, likely not one that they thought up of one morning


You mean have I considered that Bioware doesn't want to listen to it's fanbase? Why of course, it's why we get more humans when it's one of the last things wanted. And don't start with "well they are doing it for the people who do". No, they do it because they feel like it. And because someone REALLY loves humans in scifi inside Bioware.


jaydubs67 wrote...

I actually agree with the
point about all six humans is a bit much, and I prefer playing human
characters.  I'd like to see 2-3 of the classes being human, and the
rest alien.  To be fair though, while I wish the Phoenix characters had
more variety, their animations and backstories (linked with Mass Effect:
Infiltrator) were very good.  And if the new DLC is really about the
invasion of Earth and will introduce missions on Earth, then human
characters make a lot of sense.  

Just keep in mind that telling
someone to "focus on the gameplay" is perfectly reasonable when they
post things like this.  I highlighted the important bits.  You can't use
an argument one day, and be upset if people use the exact same argument
against you tomorrow.  And yes, this is literally from yesterday. 


I don't remember the last DLC having any salarians of asari dispite we getting their planets. Infact, we get completely unrelated vorcha and quarians. The DLC before that too. And everyone was happy. Why start now? Also I never denied that guy could say something like it, I just said I agree six is too much.

#211
Maeson

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Yagh Soldier and Vanguard. Nuff said.

#212
darthnick427

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Exactly my reaction.....The only Humans worth playing are the Vanguard and Engineer and I barely play as those. Aliens all the way

#213
Cyonan

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Razhathael wrote...

No, it is uninspired. Look at it this way, you're part of the ME3 multiplayer team, you get to decide what the next DLC is going to have inside it. And you decide 6 more n7-humans. It's a bad idea by all means, when you have such a vast universe full of possibilites and stuff the fans would want in front of you, I would call adding 6 more n7 trained humans and nothing else very uninspired. You say adding something like Krogan engineer or a maybe collectors as enemies is just as uninspired since they exist in the lore too and are predictable. But they haven't been in multiplayer, they are a full possibility that people would want. Humans who have had somehow different n7-training isn't original. Earth map or no, I don't remember seeing salarians or asari with the last DLC.

I don't know, maybe I misunderstand the word, I'm not native on english, but even so I would call pulling this kind thing quite stupid.


I wouldn't say that it isn't uninspired, however I would also argue that 2 of each Turian, Drell, and Salarian(Which people would probably be okay with) is also uninspired since all of those species have already been done. Adding in Collectors wouldn't be uninspired because they haven't been done in the MP yet, but adding in another Geth enemy faction with slightly different functions would be, because they have been.

I can think of plenty of words to describe the reactions I've had to the rumors of the DLC. Calling it uninspired when you wouldn't have an issue with them adding 6 of other existing species is using the wrong words though, and I can objectively say that lazy(for the people calling it that, not you) is not something this DLC can be described as, at least until we know more information about it.

Though I think at this point I can say that I get what you're saying, and I'm just being kind of picky about the wording being used. Uninspired can kind of imply laziness as well(as in they just couldn't be bothered to think of anything but humans). Calling it a bad idea works, since it's a rather opinion oriented combination of words =P

#214
jaydubs67

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Razhathael wrote...

I don't remember the last DLC having any salarians of asari dispite we getting their planets. Infact, we get completely unrelated vorcha and quarians. The DLC before that too. And everyone was happy. Why start now? Also I never denied that guy could say something like it, I just said I agree six is too much.


Not trying to pick a fight.  Like I said, I wouldn't mind having 3-4 out of the 6 being aliens.  I prefer humans, but alien characters are fun and can be interesting.  

I'd personally like to see a:
-Turian infiltrator
-Salarian soldier
-Asari sentinel 

#215
ntrisley

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[quote]Razhathael wrote...

[quote]Cyonan wrote...

[quote]Razhathael wrote...

I agree, it's not lazy, it's uninspired. Heck, they could have been lazy and added retextured turians as different classes and that would have been more preferable to most. If this leak is true, it's almost like they wanted to avoid doing what most wanted.

[/quote]

I would argue that it's not any more uninspired when compared to adding 2 Drell, Salarian, and Turian which people would have been happy with. All of them have already been done before, so they're all technically uninspired by the definition of the word.

What people have an issue with is that humans are seen as kind of boring. We're all already human, so when we play a role playing game, we want to play as something different from us. That's kind of the essence of what "role playing" is.

Though people should refrain from saying things like they're lazy or it's uninspired unless they also have issues with them adding in species like Turian, Drell, Krogan, etc. that we already have. It cheapens their argument, imo.[/quote]

No, it is uninspired.[/quote]
You're off to a bad start here.
[quote]Look at it this way, you're part of the ME3 multiplayer team, you get to decide what the next DLC is going to have inside it.[/quote]
With you so far.
[quote]And you decide 6 more n7-humans.[/quote]
Mhm...
[quote]It's a bad idea by all means, when you have such a vast universe full of possibilites and stuff the fans would want in front of you, I would call adding 6 more n7 trained humans and nothing else very uninspired.[/quote]
Hold up hold up hold up hold up.
You're saying that adding 6 "more N7 trained humans and nothing else is very uninspired" as though you've already seen the ability lists. As though the current humans available are "N7 trained"(hint: they're not).

You're relying upon definitive statements to prop up your argument that the BioWare MP team should look only at "what the fans would want".
They shouldn't. They really shouldn't.
[quote]You say adding something like Krogan engineer or a maybe collectors as enemies is just as uninspired since they exist in the lore too and are predictable.[/quote]
Uh, actually...
The reason The Collectors as enemies is "uninspired" is because The Collectors, as a galactic power and a threat, are dead. We destroyed their homeworld in ME2 courtesy of the assault through the Omega Relay.
The mention of "Collector swarms" during the "Miracle at Palaven" is likely a reference to the Reapers having some remnants of the Collectors and their Seeker Swarms in reserve to use.

Now of course, someone's going to say "But we killed/saved the Geth in ME3!" or "I defeated Cerberus, why am I fighting them?!" or "I beat the Reapers!" and try to use it as an argument...

So to head that off, it's as simple as the fact that the random enemies are those who were around at the time of the Reaper War. There's no specific dates that our squads are inserting into these zones. When I and my friends are playing Firebase: Hydra, we could very well be fighting Geth during the timeframe that Shepherd is fighting that Reaper on the other side of the dam. Or we could be defending Firebase: Condor against a Cerberus strikeforce while Shepherd and his crew are on the other side of that mountain line fighting the Reapers.

It's purposely left open so that we have a "sandbox" to play in.

Also: Krogan Engineers would be neat, but less likely simply because they're not really a technologically inclined race. Their turret would be a turret that throws sharp things at you.
If we're going to see Collectors in ME3, it will likely be as an addition to the Reaper forces, with Geth and Cerberus getting additional forces as well.
[quote]
But they haven't been in multiplayer, they are a full possibility that people would want.[/quote]
Sure. People want to fight actual Reapers in multiplayer too, do you think that should happen?
[quote]Humans who have had somehow different n7-training isn't original. [/quote]
Once again:
The individuals that we play, now, as humans?
They're not "N7s". They're Alliance military.
[quote]Earth map or no, I don't remember seeing salarians or asari with the last DLC.[/quote]
Asari Justicars were released in "Resurgence".
The release of "Firebase Goddess" ties in to the outcome of Operation: Silencer.

[quote]Re: Operation SILENCER
Confidentiality classification: XB-PRIME
Distribution: N7 Forces Only
Soldiers of the Milky Way –
It is with great regret that I must announce the withdrawal of forces
from several colonies in asari space. Reinforcing them proved
untenable. While Operation SILENCER inflicted substantial casualties,
the Reapers learned from our victories against the brutes, and they now
know how to protect their own.
Rest assured that we too are learning from this conflict. Already, we
are implementing plans to supply our forces with a better arsenal so
that, when we next meet the enemy, they are ours. Until your next
deployment, keep calm and carry on. We will pay the Reapers back soon
enough.
–Admiral Hackett[/quote]

[quote]
I don't know, maybe I misunderstand the word, I'm not native on english, but even so I would call pulling this kind thing quite stupid.
[/quote]
You're confusing the idea of "listening to the fanbase" with "intelligent" and "releasing things on your own perogative" as "stupid".

Listening to the fanbase can be a good thing, but isn't always. If they listened to the fanbase, we'd have Makos cruising around with Protheans at the wheel and shooting fireballs out of their bums.

#216
Razhathael

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Cyonan wrote...

Razhathael wrote...

No, it is uninspired. Look at it this way, you're part of the ME3 multiplayer team, you get to decide what the next DLC is going to have inside it. And you decide 6 more n7-humans. It's a bad idea by all means, when you have such a vast universe full of possibilites and stuff the fans would want in front of you, I would call adding 6 more n7 trained humans and nothing else very uninspired. You say adding something like Krogan engineer or a maybe collectors as enemies is just as uninspired since they exist in the lore too and are predictable. But they haven't been in multiplayer, they are a full possibility that people would want. Humans who have had somehow different n7-training isn't original. Earth map or no, I don't remember seeing salarians or asari with the last DLC.

I don't know, maybe I misunderstand the word, I'm not native on english, but even so I would call pulling this kind thing quite stupid.


I wouldn't say that it isn't uninspired, however I would also argue that 2 of each Turian, Drell, and Salarian(Which people would probably be okay with) is also uninspired since all of those species have already been done. Adding in Collectors wouldn't be uninspired because they haven't been done in the MP yet, but adding in another Geth enemy faction with slightly different functions would be, because they have been.

I can think of plenty of words to describe the reactions I've had to the rumors of the DLC. Calling it uninspired when you wouldn't have an issue with them adding 6 of other existing species is using the wrong words though, and I can objectively say that lazy(for the people calling it that, not you) is not something this DLC can be described as, at least until we know more information about it.

Though I think at this point I can say that I get what you're saying, and I'm just being kind of picky about the wording being used. Uninspired can kind of imply laziness as well(as in they just couldn't be bothered to think of anything but humans). Calling it a bad idea works, since it's a rather opinion oriented combination of words =P


But that argument doesn't work when, say, turians have 2 classes, soldier and sentinel. Humans have all classes + another vanguard/adept. Now they are about to get (most likely) all classes again. As long as there are about 20 humans and 2 of other races, I wouldn't say the other races "have been done". But I would say the humans are overdone.

Still, I think I'll go with boring/bad idea instead of uninspired. I guess my biggest point was this wouldn't be a very smart move considering the previous fan feedback on humans. And it would be boring. But I guess that is opinion related.

#217
Rip504

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Humans>Protheans

Any whom consider this a bad idea etc. That is only your opinion. Not all share it,it is not fact.

I WANT 6 MORE HUMANS!

Modifié par Rip504, 09 juin 2012 - 10:14 .


#218
Cyonan

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Razhathael wrote...

But that argument doesn't work when, say, turians have 2 classes, soldier and sentinel. Humans have all classes + another vanguard/adept. Now they are about to get (most likely) all classes again. As long as there are about 20 humans and 2 of other races, I wouldn't say the other races "have been done". But I would say the humans are overdone.

Still, I think I'll go with boring/bad idea instead of uninspired. I guess my biggest point was this wouldn't be a very smart move considering the previous fan feedback on humans. And it would be boring. But I guess that is opinion related.


I can agree that I think it's boring to have more humans, but that's also my personal opinion. I get into it a little bit more than some players. I'm like half way between someone just playing a game, and someone doing full blown RPing in these types of games, so I tend to enjoy playing characters that don't resemble myself IRL.

#219
AresKeith

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the only problem I have with human classes is that their armors aren't unique

#220
Abraham_uk

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Humans are cool. There is nothing boring about humans.
It's just we have 15 human characters.

Would rather have aliens though.
That would be better.

We still have a lot of aliens that don't have a single class.


Mechs
Hanar
Elcor
Volus
Prothean
Yahg
Eloi
Not to mention creating new races from scratch. Races Shepard never encountered.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 09 juin 2012 - 10:22 .


#221
ntrisley

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AresKeith wrote...

the only problem I have with human classes is that their armors aren't unique

This right here is the crux of the reason why I'm okay with more humans.

When we saw the Asari Justicar released, they were different to the "other" Asari Adept. They had a unique ability, they had a unique look, and they had a unique place in the lore.

If humans were fully customizable, down to their armor and could pick and choose from a bigger list of abilities than the other races?

Yeah. I'd think more human classes is excessive then.

As it stands, in order to add "different" character types to the game, BioWare has to add entirely new characters. As a result, there is inevitably going to be some overcrowding or repeats of race/class combinations.
As long as the skill sets aren't the same, and when it is applicable a gender toggle is enabled, I'm fine with it.

#222
NobleVigilante

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Abraham_uk wrote...

Humans are cool. There is nothing boring about humans.
It's just we have 15 human characters.

Would rather have aliens though.
That would be better.

We still have a lot of aliens that don't have a single class.


Mechs
Hanar
Elcor
Volus
Prothean
Yahg
Eloi
Not to mention creating new races from scratch. Races Shepard never encountered.


None of these fit except mechs, most would require seperate game mechanics an protheans, well you know why as for Eloi, you mean Raloi who are hiding and no ong have space transport, so their a no too.

Modifié par NobleVigilante, 09 juin 2012 - 10:25 .


#223
jaydubs67

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Abraham_uk wrote...

Humans are cool. There is nothing boring about humans.
It's just we have 15 human characters.

Would rather have aliens though.
That would be better.

We still have a lot of aliens that don't have a single class.


Mechs
Hanar
Elcor
Volus
Prothean
Yahg
Eloi
Not to mention creating new races from scratch. Races Shepard never encountered.


Mechs - definitely want.  
Hanar - can't fight on land.  
Elcor - would be awesome.  No ladders for you!  
Volus - lol.  
Prothean - with a suitable SP mission explaining how they appeared.  
Yahg - want.  
Eloi - do you mean the Raloi?  The bird people?  Because I've never heard of Eloi.  

#224
Typhoniel

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I love humans so I don't really have a problem with it. There will be enough Drell, Asari, Geth, Krogans and other Aliens in future. But this looks like an EARTH DLC. And I think on EARTH are primarily HUMANS so it fits very well. As long as they are made all different I don't see any problems.

#225
RobotMilk

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I don't know about six, but I like it. Most of the human characters now are pretty outclassed.