38 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Because if you complain and refuse something on the net, you're le ignorant or de troll.

[android654]

Only if you complain about something while admitting you're ignorant of that thing you're complaining about. Also, for those of you complaining about the rematch, it was in Manny's contract for the fight that if he lost they would rematch in November.

[Seifer006]

slimgrin wrote...

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

You know, while the rigging to me isn't nothing new, and well the fact boxing has sucked the last several decades, you know how you can tell its hit a low?

A guy named Pacman is in it.

What? Are you saying boxing is bad because of him? Or that Pacman is corrupt? That's crazy, he's carried the sport for years now.  And the 'bad for several decades nonsense' talk has to stop. The heavyweight division is bad, but there have always been great fights at lower weights. Carl Froch's destruction of Lucian Butte recently is evidence of that.

~edit

I agree with slimgrin. Pacman is one of the reason why I watch boxing. hoping to see the mayweather fight ....but it's over. there's no way. I don't think pacman expected this decision. I did see the look of bradley, wow, no surprise at all that he knew he was going to win.

its nice to know the fans booo'd him and embarrassed him cause everyone knows that Pacman won. just look at the articles all over the internet.

[Yrkoon]

android654 wrote...

I really wonder if any of you are Boxing fans. For the past two fights Manny's form has been dipping. He's been having a lot of issues with his calf muscles and you can tell that that has been affecting hiss performance. There was even talk from Manny's conditioning coach about him retiring soon due to a combination of this medical issue, his age, and his desire to retire with a good record to help bolster his political career. That being said, the count from everyone else watching called the fight for Manny despite the official decision. He landed more than Bradley and missed less.

So no, it's not a question of karma. It seems to be a combination of a serious enough medical problem and a rigged judge panel. If he looks weak enough and has a rumor of a medical problem to help sell the story, then him losing wouldn't seem so outrageous. That's what seems to have happened.
 

Except that Manny  did more than enough last night to win.  Which means whatever health issues he has or doesn't have weren't relevant.  So bringing them up is pointless.

Granted, there would be no controversy today had Pacquio actually KO'ed Bradley.  But oh well.   That just means he didn't bring his power with him when he moved up to Welterweight a couple of years ago.   But  last I checked you don't need  to knock out your opponent to win a fight, so....

Modifié par Yrkoon, 10 juin 2012 - 09:51 .

[Yrkoon]

android654 wrote...

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

You know, while the rigging to me isn't nothing new, and well the fact boxing has sucked the last several decades, you know how you can tell its hit a low?

A guy named Pacman is in it.

Ok, you just proved you don't know the sport. Nicknames have always been central to boxing. Every famous boxer in history has had a ridiculous nickname. No to mention that Manny has one of the best records in the history of the sport, a record that is two fights away of being an exact replica of Ali's record.


Ali

Wins: 56
Losses: 5

Manny:

Wins: 54
Losses: 4

While I agree with your overall  argument (that Manny isn't the "cause" of anything, except for maybe  the gross ignorance that currently infects some boxing fans ) , I  will point out a couple of major things.   First:  Muhammad Ali's greatness isn't because of his  mediocre record lol.  It's because of WHO he beat, How he beat them, and the fact that He won  the undisputed heavyweight championship in 1964....   then again in  1974.... then a record 3rd time in 1979. Thats  3 whole Eras of heavyweights he's dominated.  he's   Beaten 7 Future Hall of famers,   and 15 past, present or Future world champions.  And he accomplished all this  while being  banned from the sport for 3 years of his physical prime.


As for Manny having  one of the best records in the history of the sport...   LOL  that is so demonstraby false, it practically doesn't warrant a response.     Have you ever heard of   Rocky Marciano?  (49-0)  or Julio Cesar Chavez sr. (107-5) or George Foreman? (76-5), or Marvin Hagler? (62-3) or Sugar Ray Robinson?   (173-19), or  Thomas Hearns  (61-5)  or Roberto Duran?  (103-16)  or Joe Louis  (66-3).   Or Barney Ross?  (72-4)  And that's just  a single drop in the ocean.  Archie Moore has almost 200 wins...AS CHAMPION, in a career that spanned 5 decades.  Henry Armstrong had 150 wins (101 KOs), and won the undisputed Featherwight, Lightweight, and Welterweight titles, and defended them simultaneously.

Hell, even the  disgustingly boring, terribly forgettable, current Heavyweight Champion of the world,  Vladamir Klitchko (57-3) has a better record than Manny Pacquiao.

Records mean very little. 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 10 juin 2012 - 09:54 .

[slimgrin]

Manny's record is littered with great names. If anyone is a throwback to the good ol' days, it's him. And I'm sick of hearing about the golden days of boxing. It's as if Roy Jones, Joe Calzaghe, Chris Byrd, Barerra, Morales, Lewis, Holyfield, James Tony...these guys weren't great? They didn't make great fights and face the best competition? The nostalgia has to die. It's only hurting the sport.

Oh...and Vitaly Klitschko is the best heavy since Lewis. I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

Modifié par slimgrin, 10 juin 2012 - 09:57 .

[.shea.]

slimgrin wrote...
If anyone is a throwback to the good ol' days, it's him.

My favorite has to be Froch (attitude-wise), not the most skilled guy but tough as nails, doesn't duck anyone and isn't afraid of fighting on the road (this description also fits Glen Johnson). Froch's last 8 fights: Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell, Kessler, AA, Johnson, Ward, Bute...

[Yrkoon]

slimgrin wrote...

Manny's record is littered with great names. If anyone is a throwback to the good ol' days, it's him. And I'm sick of hearing about the golden days of boxing. It's as if Roy Jones, Joe Calzaghe, Chris Byrd, Barerra, Morales, Lewis, Holyfield, James Tony...these guys weren't great? They didn't make great fights and face the best competition? The nostalgia has to die. It's only hurting the sport.

 
Chris Byrd  wasn't great.  At all.     But  wait... You're tired of hearing about the good old days, yet you cite 5 fighters who made their marks on boxing at least 2 decades ago.

And I've yet to hear of anyone who'd rank the Current heavyweight champions (The Klitchko Brothers) above Lennex Lewis or Evander Holyfield. And that has nothing to do with Nostalgia. Any 5 year old can watch these fighters in action and tell you straight up who's better.


That said, In my Opinon there WAS a "Golden Era" in Boxing in the 90s. Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Michael Moorer, Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins, Julio Cesar Chavez, Arturo Gatti, Oscar Dela Hoya, Pernell Whitaker, Felix Trinidad. These were all Houshold names, Hall of famers who made millions upon millions of dollars in the ring

Manny Pacquiao belongs among them, but the problem is that his current elite stature does not see him ranked on equal terms. it sees him *higher*. And the reason is because of the current vacuum of talent in the sport. Today, there are only 2 fighters in the world who can  generate  more than 1 million buys in a pay per view fight: 1) Manny Pacquiao and 2) Floyd Mayweather. Because of this, those two will enjoy the lion's share of popularity and everything that comes with it (like the claim that they're teh greatest ever!). But just a couple of decades ago, there were more superstars. You had at least 6 fighters at any given time who could sell PPV to at least 1 million homes.  So Yes,  Boxing in the 90s WAS better than  it is today.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 10 juin 2012 - 10:43 .

[slimgrin]

Froch is top 10 material after his win over Bute. Most experts considered Bute the best in the division by a wide margin and Froch just steam rolled him.

[.shea.]

Ward is the most skilled guy @ 168, but man is he boring to watch (I'm a big fan of defensive boxing ála Mayweather, Whitaker, Toney, Locche, Pep etc., but Wards style is just plain ugly and boring). Doesn't help that Wards next fight is against Dawson...who isn't exactly the most charismatic or exciting boxer either.

[slimgrin]

Yrkoon wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Manny's record is littered with great names. If anyone is a throwback to the good ol' days, it's him. And I'm sick of hearing about the golden days of boxing. It's as if Roy Jones, Joe Calzaghe, Chris Byrd, Barerra, Morales, Lewis, Holyfield, James Tony...these guys weren't great? They didn't make great fights and face the best competition? The nostalgia has to die. It's only hurting the sport.

 
Chris Byrd  wasn't great.  At all.     But  wait... You're tired of hearing about the good old days, yet you cite 5 fighters who made their marks on boxing at least 2 decades ago.

And I've yet to hear of anyone who'd rank the Current heavyweight champions (The Klitchko Brothers) above Lennex Lewis or Evander Holyfield. And that has nothing to do with Nostalgia. Any 5 year old can watch these fighters in action and tell you straight up who's better.


That said, In my Opinon there WAS a "Golden Era" in Boxing in the 90s. Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Michael Moorer, Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins, Julio Cesar Chavez, Arturo Gatti, Oscar Dela Hoya, Pernell Whitaker, Felix Trinidad. These were all Houshold names, Hall of famers who made millions upon millions of dollars in the ring

You are forgetting that the zeal of sports media toward boxing is gone. That's a separate issue. There are quality fighters at lighter wweights, always have been. But if they don't hail from the good ol' USA, they don't get coverage and sometimes they don't get a shot at the fights they should. Boxing is no longer America's sport, and that's part of the problem.

Vitaly K. took a fight with Lennox years ago on short notice and almost won. His only 'loss' other than that was due to injury. Every other fight he has dominated. He has one of the best records in heavyweight history. Blame his competition if you want, but he keeps winning.

Modifié par slimgrin, 10 juin 2012 - 10:48 .

[Yrkoon]

slimgrin wrote...
You are forgetting that the zeal of sports media toward boxing is gone. That's a separate issue. There are quality fighters at lighter wweights, always have been. But if they don't hail from the good ol' USA, they don't get coverage and sometimes they don't get a shot at the fights they should. Boxing is no longer America's sport, and that's part of the problem.

I don't see how anyone can seperate popularity  and media coverage from Boxer accomplishment.  or that any of this matters with regards to a boxer's nationality.    Boxing has 4 major sanctioning bodies  (WBA. IBF, WBC, WBO)  Only one of them (IBF) is American, all the others are foreign based.  Which means that YES, a mexican  fighter will not be stiffed of a WBC title shot in favor of a less worthy American or whatever) 

 And  American media  (and every other country's media)  generally don't pay attention to any fighter until he wins  one of these titles.  And even then,  general interest increases with weight, and after that, with style.   That is to say, a boring, safety first, flyweight contender, will never  get the same amount of ink   than an explosive heavyweight champion will. no matter what country either fighter is from.

slimgrin wrote...Vitaly took a fight with Lennox years ago on short notice and almost won.

You mean he lost, by  TKO in 6 rounds,  in a bore-snore fight against a  38 year old Lennox Lewis.  yeah, not impressive.   And I say this as an American, who doesn't share a nationality with either of these fighters.

His only 'loss' other than that was due to injury. Every other fight he has dominated. He has one of the best records in heavyweight history. Blame his compettion if you want, but he keeps winning.

LOL  he doesn't even have the best record in his own family, let alone Heavyweight history.  WTF is wrong with you people?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 10 juin 2012 - 11:16 .

[slimgrin]

Nothing. You seem to discount boxing after the year 1990 and that's your loss not mine. I'm not going to sit here and recount history to convince you otherwise. If modern boxers aren't good enough for you I don't really care. You sound like the 60 something sports broadcasters who can do nothing but opine about Ali and Marciano. The sport has moved on and they live in the past.

And Vitaly has the second best KO percentage in heavyweight history. He's been dominant for years and faced all comers. Has he ducked anyone? No. He's way better than his brother. Don't confuse the two.

http://en.wikipedia....itali_Klitschko

Modifié par slimgrin, 10 juin 2012 - 11:27 .

[Yrkoon]

slimgrin wrote...

Nothing. You seem to discount boxing after the year 1990

 
Really?  So I didn't mention Mike Tyson, Oscar Dela Hoya,  Evander Holyfield, Arturo Gatti, Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao,  Pernell Whitaker, Michael Moorer, George Foreman,  Juan Marquez and about 10 other  current fighters in my multiple posts on this thread?  Or are you just dismissing what you can't counter?

And Vitaly has the second best KO percentage in heavyweight history.

Then just say THAT.  Instead of making the much broader and much more  relevant    (and totally false) claim that he's got one of the best records period.

 

 Has he ducked anyone? No.

Yes.  he has.   The entire boxing world  has wanted  to see him fight his Brother for about a decade now.  But that fight will never happen, despite the fact that it's the ONLY Heavyweight Fight today that makes sense.


As for his accomplishments vs. his brother.   Lets see.   His brother:

1) Has won, (and currently holds) more world titles
2) Has been champion longer
3) Has made more defenses of his titles
4) Has more wins
5) Has more knockouts

Yeah, it's not close.  Again, what's wrong with you?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 10 juin 2012 - 11:44 .