The step I think Bioware will take with the IT Theory and the endings.
#1
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:25
#2
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:29
But they have 3 ways to apply IT...It doesn't have to be a dream.
There 3 theories for IT.
Modifié par dreman9999, 10 juin 2012 - 04:30 .
#3
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:30
But I'm 100% certain the catalyst and RGB are real and canon.
#4
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:33
That still is IT. IT doesn't say the destuction of the mass relays won't happen..BW is gunning for that. It's just that there n proof any of the ending is real. There not even proof for the catalyst being real. It's not any where near a 100% certainty.filetemo wrote...
Bioware will maybe throw an olive branch to IT'ers, like for example, switching Anderson for TIM, making you think you are shooting TIM, but when you resist indoctrination you see who's who, and end up shooting the real TIM instead.
But I'm 100% certain the catalyst and RGB are real and canon.
#5
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:36
Stopped right there. It does matter. The only way the IT will be true is if the IT was planned. I'm getting tired of people thinking the IT is just a fun fan-fiction people made up out of no where and screamed at Bioware, "Hey, use this!". It is a collection of clues and in game EVIDENCE (yes I said it) that leads to an interpretation of the ending that implies Shepard was undergoing an indoctrination attempt in London.
It is not some made up idea from the fans. The fans simply found the evidence and clues left for a reason. Bioware themselves said that they wanted the fans to speculate about the endings, and use their past knowledge of the lore to piece things together and make sense of what they saw. The IT does that. Bioware also said they were going for a Matrix/Inception ending. What are Matrix and Inception both about? Alternate realities.
If the EC included IT is would not be because Bioware adopted a fan idea, it would be because it was planned. The evidence didn't accidently get there. And there are far too many coincidences for it to not be intended. Now, one can doubt that the IT is true, but be damn sure that if it is, it was Bioware's plan. There's no getting around that.
#6
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:37
#7
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:41
You say evidence, I say horrible writing and coincedence. But again you said BW wanted people to speculate about the ending, and that's my opinion it wasn't originally included, the reason I say that is because I doubt they would take all this backlash, even if they ran out of time for Gods sake ME3 is 40$ on Amazon.Makrys wrote...
"First things first, I don't believe that IT was originally planned by BW, but that doesn't matter."
Stopped right there. It does matter. The only way the IT will be true is if the IT was planned. I'm getting tired of people thinking the IT is just a fun fan-fiction people made up out of no where and screamed at Bioware, "Hey, use this!". It is a collection of clues and in game EVIDENCE (yes I said it) that leads to an interpretation of the ending that implies Shepard was undergoing an indoctrination attempt in London.
It is not some made up idea from the fans. The fans simply found the evidence and clues left for a reason. Bioware themselves said that they wanted the fans to speculate about the endings, and use their past knowledge of the lore to piece things together and make sense of what they saw. The IT does that. Bioware also said they were going for a Matrix/Inception ending. What are Matrix and Inception both about? Alternate realities.
If the EC included IT is would not be because Bioware adopted a fan idea, it would be because it was planned. The evidence didn't accidently get there. And there are far too many coincidences for it to not be intended. Now, one can doubt that the IT is true, but be damn sure that if it is, it was Bioware's plan. There's no getting around that.
#8
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:42
IT being true at any level opens it up to all levels. Indoctrination warps the mind, if it can do it at one level, it can do it to all.filetemo wrote...
I do not believe any of the IT theories at this point. Then when EC shows it will hurt less when I realize they aren't true. And also then I'll be pleasantly surprised IF they end up being true at any level.
#9
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:45
So when TIM controls Anderson And Shepard at the end of the game...Every symtom of indoctrination popping up is a coincidence?Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
You say evidence, I say horrible writing and coincedence. But again you said BW wanted people to speculate about the ending, and that's my opinion it wasn't originally included, the reason I say that is because I doubt they would take all this backlash, even if they ran out of time for Gods sake ME3 is 40$ on Amazon.Makrys wrote...
"First things first, I don't believe that IT was originally planned by BW, but that doesn't matter."
Stopped right there. It does matter. The only way the IT will be true is if the IT was planned. I'm getting tired of people thinking the IT is just a fun fan-fiction people made up out of no where and screamed at Bioware, "Hey, use this!". It is a collection of clues and in game EVIDENCE (yes I said it) that leads to an interpretation of the ending that implies Shepard was undergoing an indoctrination attempt in London.
It is not some made up idea from the fans. The fans simply found the evidence and clues left for a reason. Bioware themselves said that they wanted the fans to speculate about the endings, and use their past knowledge of the lore to piece things together and make sense of what they saw. The IT does that. Bioware also said they were going for a Matrix/Inception ending. What are Matrix and Inception both about? Alternate realities.
If the EC included IT is would not be because Bioware adopted a fan idea, it would be because it was planned. The evidence didn't accidently get there. And there are far too many coincidences for it to not be intended. Now, one can doubt that the IT is true, but be damn sure that if it is, it was Bioware's plan. There's no getting around that.
#10
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:46
Completely ignore it.
#11
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:49
we know from "the final hours of ME3", that an indoctrinated section of gameplay (reapers taking control of shepard's movement) was scrapped due to technical limitations. So the scene never occured, but the clues remain in-game (London crosshair bob).dreman9999 wrote...
IT being true at any level opens it up to all levels. Indoctrination warps the mind, if it can do it at one level, it can do it to all.
So yes, Shepard was to be indoctrinated at some time in the game's development. But that does not "open it up to all levels" . Not implies that "If Shepard was to be indoctrinated there's a certain chance the endings aren't real". That's quite a stretch.
#12
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:57
But then in the full game, TIM is the one that controls Shepard with indoctrination instead.... Did you miss this? They just changed who did the who was controling Shepard and turned it to a scene instead of gameplay.filetemo wrote...
we know from "the final hours of ME3", that an indoctrinated section of gameplay (reapers taking control of shepard's movement) was scrapped due to technical limitations. So the scene never occured, but the clues remain in-game (London crosshair bob).dreman9999 wrote...
IT being true at any level opens it up to all levels. Indoctrination warps the mind, if it can do it at one level, it can do it to all.
So yes, Shepard was to be indoctrinated at some time in the game's development. But that does not "open it up to all levels" . Not implies that "If Shepard was to be indoctrinated there's a certain chance the endings aren't real". That's quite a stretch.
TIM controling Shepard and Anderson with indoctrination clearly shown that they both have a form of indoctriantion in them.
Modifié par dreman9999, 10 juin 2012 - 04:58 .
#13
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 04:59
ahhhhhhhh here we go......dreman9999 wrote...
So when TIM controls Anderson And Shepard at the end of the game...Every symtom of indoctrination popping up is a coincidence?Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
You say evidence, I say horrible writing and coincedence. But again you said BW wanted people to speculate about the ending, and that's my opinion it wasn't originally included, the reason I say that is because I doubt they would take all this backlash, even if they ran out of time for Gods sake ME3 is 40$ on Amazon.Makrys wrote...
"First things first, I don't believe that IT was originally planned by BW, but that doesn't matter."
Stopped right there. It does matter. The only way the IT will be true is if the IT was planned. I'm getting tired of people thinking the IT is just a fun fan-fiction people made up out of no where and screamed at Bioware, "Hey, use this!". It is a collection of clues and in game EVIDENCE (yes I said it) that leads to an interpretation of the ending that implies Shepard was undergoing an indoctrination attempt in London.
It is not some made up idea from the fans. The fans simply found the evidence and clues left for a reason. Bioware themselves said that they wanted the fans to speculate about the endings, and use their past knowledge of the lore to piece things together and make sense of what they saw. The IT does that. Bioware also said they were going for a Matrix/Inception ending. What are Matrix and Inception both about? Alternate realities.
If the EC included IT is would not be because Bioware adopted a fan idea, it would be because it was planned. The evidence didn't accidently get there. And there are far too many coincidences for it to not be intended. Now, one can doubt that the IT is true, but be damn sure that if it is, it was Bioware's plan. There's no getting around that.
First thing first, TIM was originally suppose to be a boss battle, but they scraped it off at the last moment. Thats evidence itself that the scene that was put there had no nothing to do with the IT but instead just put therem but I'll continue and endulge you more. TIM can only control them, he learned that with the research that went on in Horizon. When Shepard shoots anderson it makes sense, TIM just finished saying "With the crucible, I am sure I can control the Reapers" with Shepard responding "Then what (hes saying what do you plan to do with it)" then Tim says "Look at the power its wields, look at what it can do" Then he forces shepard to shoot Anderson, TO SHOW THE POWER. Anyway why argue this thread is not about that, but if you want to explain anything else for you just ask.
Modifié par Khajiit Jzargo, 10 juin 2012 - 05:00 .
#14
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:09
Every thing you just posted has in no way disproved that the scene has nothing to do with indoctrination. So what that it used to be a boss battle, it not bring one does nothing to dissporve that TIm is using indoctriantion. The fact the TIM is using indoctriantion to control Shepard allown is proof enough that Shepard has a form of indoctrination on him. Added, everything he learn in sacturay was about using and controling indoctriantion and beings under indoctriantion. How can it have nothing to do with IT if it's based on indoctriantion?Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
ahhhhhhhh here we go......dreman9999 wrote...
So when TIM controls Anderson And Shepard at the end of the game...Every symtom of indoctrination popping up is a coincidence?Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
You say evidence, I say horrible writing and coincedence. But again you said BW wanted people to speculate about the ending, and that's my opinion it wasn't originally included, the reason I say that is because I doubt they would take all this backlash, even if they ran out of time for Gods sake ME3 is 40$ on Amazon.Makrys wrote...
"First things first, I don't believe that IT was originally planned by BW, but that doesn't matter."
Stopped right there. It does matter. The only way the IT will be true is if the IT was planned. I'm getting tired of people thinking the IT is just a fun fan-fiction people made up out of no where and screamed at Bioware, "Hey, use this!". It is a collection of clues and in game EVIDENCE (yes I said it) that leads to an interpretation of the ending that implies Shepard was undergoing an indoctrination attempt in London.
It is not some made up idea from the fans. The fans simply found the evidence and clues left for a reason. Bioware themselves said that they wanted the fans to speculate about the endings, and use their past knowledge of the lore to piece things together and make sense of what they saw. The IT does that. Bioware also said they were going for a Matrix/Inception ending. What are Matrix and Inception both about? Alternate realities.
If the EC included IT is would not be because Bioware adopted a fan idea, it would be because it was planned. The evidence didn't accidently get there. And there are far too many coincidences for it to not be intended. Now, one can doubt that the IT is true, but be damn sure that if it is, it was Bioware's plan. There's no getting around that.
First thing first, TIM was originally suppose to be a boss battle, but they scraped it off at the last moment. Thats evidence itself that the scene that was put there had no nothing to do with the IT but instead just put therem but I'll continue and endulge you more. TIM can only control them, he learned that with the research that went on in Horizon. When Shepard shoots anderson it makes sense, TIM just finished saying "With the crucible, I am sure I can control the Reapers" with Shepard responding "Then what (hes saying what do you plan to do with it)" then Tim says "Look at the power its wields, look at what it can do" Then he forces shepard to shoot Anderson, TO SHOW THE POWER. Anyway why argue this thread is not about that, but if you want to explain anything else for you just ask.
Also, you don't understand the indoctriantion can be resisted?
Modifié par dreman9999, 10 juin 2012 - 05:11 .
#15
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:12
What I'm trying to say is that they scrapped the idea of shepard being controlled due to technical reasons, but left the hints there. Like the dark energy plot scrapped, the hints in ME2 were left in-game, they simply lead to nowhere.dreman9999 wrote...
But then in the full game, TIM is the one that controls Shepard with indoctrination instead.... Did you miss this? They just changed who did the who was controling Shepard and turned it to a scene instead of gameplay.
TIM controling Shepard and Anderson with indoctrination clearly shown that they both have a form of indoctriantion in them.
If you are trying to say that IT is true because there's a direct indoctrination attempt in-game, all I can say is that probably you are very wrong.
Modifié par filetemo, 10 juin 2012 - 05:12 .
#16
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:17
Your logic is that just because it can be explain with Indoctrination, it theferoe makes sense and its correct. "OH MORDIN wants to go to the beach and study seashells, why does he want to stop fighting the reapers, Shepard mentions that Mordin is crazy, it must be Indoctrination" Ovbiously many things can be proved with Indoctrination, but it doesn't make it true. And the evidence suggesting that Shepard is not Indoctrinated is way more overwhelming that the evidence that proves he is that can actually be considered fact.dreman9999 wrote...
Every thing you just posted has in no way disproved that the scene has nothing to do with indoctrination. So what that it used to be a boss battle, it not bring one does nothing to dissporve that TIm is using indoctriantion. The fact the TIM is using indoctriantion to control Shepard allown is proof enough that Shepard has a form of indoctrination on him. Added, everything he learn in sacturay was about using and controling indoctriantion and beings under indoctriantion. How can it have nothing to do with IT if it's based on indoctriantion?Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
ahhhhhhhh here we go......dreman9999 wrote...
So when TIM controls Anderson And Shepard at the end of the game...Every symtom of indoctrination popping up is a coincidence?Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
You say evidence, I say horrible writing and coincedence. But again you said BW wanted people to speculate about the ending, and that's my opinion it wasn't originally included, the reason I say that is because I doubt they would take all this backlash, even if they ran out of time for Gods sake ME3 is 40$ on Amazon.Makrys wrote...
"First things first, I don't believe that IT was originally planned by BW, but that doesn't matter."
Stopped right there. It does matter. The only way the IT will be true is if the IT was planned. I'm getting tired of people thinking the IT is just a fun fan-fiction people made up out of no where and screamed at Bioware, "Hey, use this!". It is a collection of clues and in game EVIDENCE (yes I said it) that leads to an interpretation of the ending that implies Shepard was undergoing an indoctrination attempt in London.
It is not some made up idea from the fans. The fans simply found the evidence and clues left for a reason. Bioware themselves said that they wanted the fans to speculate about the endings, and use their past knowledge of the lore to piece things together and make sense of what they saw. The IT does that. Bioware also said they were going for a Matrix/Inception ending. What are Matrix and Inception both about? Alternate realities.
If the EC included IT is would not be because Bioware adopted a fan idea, it would be because it was planned. The evidence didn't accidently get there. And there are far too many coincidences for it to not be intended. Now, one can doubt that the IT is true, but be damn sure that if it is, it was Bioware's plan. There's no getting around that.
First thing first, TIM was originally suppose to be a boss battle, but they scraped it off at the last moment. Thats evidence itself that the scene that was put there had no nothing to do with the IT but instead just put therem but I'll continue and endulge you more. TIM can only control them, he learned that with the research that went on in Horizon. When Shepard shoots anderson it makes sense, TIM just finished saying "With the crucible, I am sure I can control the Reapers" with Shepard responding "Then what (hes saying what do you plan to do with it)" then Tim says "Look at the power its wields, look at what it can do" Then he forces shepard to shoot Anderson, TO SHOW THE POWER. Anyway why argue this thread is not about that, but if you want to explain anything else for you just ask.
Also, you don't understand the indoctriantion can be resisted?
#17
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:19
What I'm saying is that they changed it from being gameplay based to being story based. And they changed if from Harbinger control Shepard to TIM controling Shepard...How can it bea tiny hint if TIM is literaly controling Shepard with indoctrination.filetemo wrote...
What I'm trying to say is that they scrapped the idea of shepard being controlled due to technical reasons, but left the hints there. Like the dark energy plot scrapped, the hints in ME2 were left in-game, they simply lead to nowhere.dreman9999 wrote...
But then in the full game, TIM is the one that controls Shepard with indoctrination instead.... Did you miss this? They just changed who did the who was controling Shepard and turned it to a scene instead of gameplay.
TIM controling Shepard and Anderson with indoctrination clearly shown that they both have a form of indoctriantion in them.
If you are trying to say that IT is true because there's a direct indoctrination attempt in-game, all I can say is that probably you are very wrong.
How can you say TIM conrtoling Shepard and Anderson with indoctrination is not a sign that they have a form of indoctriation on them....That only happen to people with indoctriation. That the most obvious and bluntest peice of proof the IT is real.
#18
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:20
But I think theres hope, on HTL forums Chris Priestly started a topic to see how many ppl believed in the IT- http://www.holdtheli...on-theory.1909/
Modifié par NOD-INFORMER37, 10 juin 2012 - 05:21 .
#19
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:23
But TIM is liturally using indoctrination to control Shepard and Anderson. Every symtom of indoctriantion pops up when TIM controls Shepard. This not a maybe. Shepard literaly can't move and is force to Shoot Anderson via Indoctrination. It can't be more clear. This is what the scene shows. And there is no case of a person with out indoctriantion being controled like that.Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
Your logic is that just because it can be explain with Indoctrination, it theferoe makes sense and its correct. "OH MORDIN wants to go to the beach and study seashells, why does he want to stop fighting the reapers, Shepard mentions that Mordin is crazy, it must be Indoctrination" Ovbiously many things can be proved with Indoctrination, but it doesn't make it true. And the evidence suggesting that Shepard is not Indoctrinated is way more overwhelming that the evidence that proves he is that can actually be considered fact.dreman9999 wrote...
Every thing you just posted has in no way disproved that the scene has nothing to do with indoctrination. So what that it used to be a boss battle, it not bring one does nothing to dissporve that TIm is using indoctriantion. The fact the TIM is using indoctriantion to control Shepard allown is proof enough that Shepard has a form of indoctrination on him. Added, everything he learn in sacturay was about using and controling indoctriantion and beings under indoctriantion. How can it have nothing to do with IT if it's based on indoctriantion?Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
ahhhhhhhh here we go......dreman9999 wrote...
So when TIM controls Anderson And Shepard at the end of the game...Every symtom of indoctrination popping up is a coincidence?Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
You say evidence, I say horrible writing and coincedence. But again you said BW wanted people to speculate about the ending, and that's my opinion it wasn't originally included, the reason I say that is because I doubt they would take all this backlash, even if they ran out of time for Gods sake ME3 is 40$ on Amazon.Makrys wrote...
"First things first, I don't believe that IT was originally planned by BW, but that doesn't matter."
Stopped right there. It does matter. The only way the IT will be true is if the IT was planned. I'm getting tired of people thinking the IT is just a fun fan-fiction people made up out of no where and screamed at Bioware, "Hey, use this!". It is a collection of clues and in game EVIDENCE (yes I said it) that leads to an interpretation of the ending that implies Shepard was undergoing an indoctrination attempt in London.
It is not some made up idea from the fans. The fans simply found the evidence and clues left for a reason. Bioware themselves said that they wanted the fans to speculate about the endings, and use their past knowledge of the lore to piece things together and make sense of what they saw. The IT does that. Bioware also said they were going for a Matrix/Inception ending. What are Matrix and Inception both about? Alternate realities.
If the EC included IT is would not be because Bioware adopted a fan idea, it would be because it was planned. The evidence didn't accidently get there. And there are far too many coincidences for it to not be intended. Now, one can doubt that the IT is true, but be damn sure that if it is, it was Bioware's plan. There's no getting around that.
First thing first, TIM was originally suppose to be a boss battle, but they scraped it off at the last moment. Thats evidence itself that the scene that was put there had no nothing to do with the IT but instead just put therem but I'll continue and endulge you more. TIM can only control them, he learned that with the research that went on in Horizon. When Shepard shoots anderson it makes sense, TIM just finished saying "With the crucible, I am sure I can control the Reapers" with Shepard responding "Then what (hes saying what do you plan to do with it)" then Tim says "Look at the power its wields, look at what it can do" Then he forces shepard to shoot Anderson, TO SHOW THE POWER. Anyway why argue this thread is not about that, but if you want to explain anything else for you just ask.
Also, you don't understand the indoctriantion can be resisted?
#20
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:25
You're in no fighting condition at all, what would happen at that point?
I'm not bashing IT, but I'd like this question to be answered.
#21
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:25
Makrys wrote...
If the EC included IT is would not be because Bioware adopted a fan idea, it would be because it was planned. The evidence didn't accidently get there. And there are far too many coincidences for it to not be intended. .
There's no evidence for IT beyond circumstantial and there are some qoutes from bioware it's self which seem to go against EC being IT.Really it's impossible to go through every bit of IT evidence and disprove it because the evidence changes daily and a lot of it can't be understood without knowledge of software/game development.
My thoughts on the subject are similar to Archengeia on youtube
(skip to 27:00 if you want the long version, go to 38:00 for the short version)
To me IT seems like a conspiracy theory , the same too many coincidences arguments you make are similar to ones by 9/11 truthers , things like saying that if you fold a bill a certain way it looks like the two towers seems eerily similar to the way some indoctrination theorists talk about how the tech on the citadel looks similar to that on the shadow brokers ship.
dreman9999 wrote...
But TIM is liturally using indoctrination to control Shepard and Anderson. Every symtom of indoctriantion pops up when TIM controls Shepard. This not a maybe. Shepard literaly can't move and is force to Shoot Anderson via Indoctrination. It can't be more clear. This is what the scene shows. And there is no case of a person with out indoctriantion being controled like that.
Not every symtom , in normal indoctrination you are made to believe what you are doing is the right course of action. Nothing indicates Shepard believes shooting Anderson is the right thing to do.
My guess is TIM dicovered a way to use the reaper signal to control individuals.
Modifié par TiminatorT2000, 10 juin 2012 - 05:33 .
#22
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:26
I think we are not speaking of the same thing, I'm getting lost.dreman9999 wrote...
How can you say TIM conrtoling Shepard and Anderson with indoctrination is not a sign that they have a form of indoctriation on them....That only happen to people with indoctriation. That the most obvious and bluntest peice of proof the IT is real.
Let's see
Indoctrination Theory means the endings are not real.
And you are saying that, since TIM tries to indoctrinate Shepard, the IT is real.
What does one thing have to do with the other?
#23
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:28
I ask this to every person who says this....Is it aTiminatorT2000 wrote...
Makrys wrote...
If the EC included IT is would not be because Bioware adopted a fan idea, it would be because it was planned. The evidence didn't accidently get there. And there are far too many coincidences for it to not be intended. .
There's no evidence for IT beyond circumstantial and there are some qoutes from bioware it's self which seem to go against EC being IT.Really it's impossible to go through every bit of IT evidence and disprove it because the evidence changes daily and a lot of it can't be understood without knowledge of software/game development.
My thoughts on the subject are similar to Archengeia on youtube
(skip to 27:00)
To me IT seems like a conspiracy theory , the same too many coincidences arguments you make are similar to ones by 9/11 truthers , things like saying that if you fold a bill a certain way it looks like the two towers seems eerily similar to the way some indoctrination theorists talk about how the tech on the citadel looks similar to that on the shadow brokers ship.
coincidence that TIM controls Shepard and Anderson at the end of the game and every symtom of indoctrintion pops up?
#24
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:28
I honestly think when he made this, it was a way to find out whether fans really wanted the IT Theory, I have no doubt they will include it somehow.NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...
They could easily make a multiple ending DLC that pleases everyone, lets just hope they do and not just ignore everyone.
But I think theres hope, on HTL forums Chris Priestly started a topic to see how many ppl believed in the IT- http://www.holdtheli...on-theory.1909/
#25
Posté 10 juin 2012 - 05:29





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