295 réponses à ce sujet

[SubAstris]

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

[Shepard sacrificing his/her self to save trillions of lives seems like a perfectly acceptable ending to me.

And choosing Destroy was your decision. The consequences were made clear. There were two other choices for your Paragon Shepard.

1.How do you know that the star child is telling the truth?
2. How do you know what you see in the end is real?
3. How do you know if the reapers are not messing with your mind?

Have you yet to ask yourself these questions?

Are you really trying to give a baseless absolute on vague statements? How can you tale "vague" as literal?

I have asked those questions.  I don't believe in IT.  I think it's silly.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, however.

How is something established from ME1 an comfermed in ME2 as something the reapers want to do to Shepard, Silly?
Harbinger literaly guns after Shepard wanting to take control of Shepard in ME2. Yet in ME3 the though of the reaper succeeding to get there influence in Shepard is "silly"?

You seem to be perenially making the same mistake; the fact that Shepard can be indoctrinated doesn't means actually mean he is being so. I can anticipate an answer along the lines of "but there's plenty of evidence that he is indoctrinated such as", but this isn't about evidence, there is about faulty logic.

I'm sorry. So, TIM controling Shepard in the end of ME3 with indoctrination is not a sign that Shepard is indoctrinated?

However this is not the effect of the Reaper indoctrination attempts since ME2 (or, if you believe some, ME1), but is reacting to TIM's actions only for that scene. IT, in its most popular form, states that he has had contact with Reapers for a long time therefore he is indoctrinated by the end.

[jsadalia]

dreman9999 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


]

jsadalia wrote... I have asked those questions.  I don't believe in IT.  I think it's silly.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, however.

How is something established from ME1 an comfermed in ME2 as something the reapers want to do to Shepard, Silly?
Harbinger literaly guns after Shepard wanting to take control of Shepard in ME2. Yet in ME3 the though of the reaper succeeding to get there influence in Shepard is "silly"?

I know you enjoy repeatedly stabbing at the minutiae of this debate, but by now I have no interest in it at all.

I think IT is silly.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want.

Just like an averge ANTI-ITER...Says it's silly and can't even give a reason why.

The degree to which you enjoy, or indeed demand, argument on this subject is really not healthy.

Believe what you want. Please don't act like a dick if people choose not to play with you.

If you don't want to be bothered...Don't post.

I'll keep posting, thanks.  For what it's worth, "Don't post here or I'll harrass you" is really not cool. Please don't do it again.

[KingZayd]

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

[Shepard sacrificing his/her self to save trillions of lives seems like a perfectly acceptable ending to me.

And choosing Destroy was your decision. The consequences were made clear. There were two other choices for your Paragon Shepard.

1.How do you know that the star child is telling the truth?
2. How do you know what you see in the end is real?
3. How do you know if the reapers are not messing with your mind?

Have you yet to ask yourself these questions?

Are you really trying to give a baseless absolute on vague statements? How can you tale "vague" as literal?

I have asked those questions.  I don't believe in IT.  I think it's silly.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, however.

How is something established from ME1 an comfermed in ME2 as something the reapers want to do to Shepard, Silly?
Harbinger literaly guns after Shepard wanting to take control of Shepard in ME2. Yet in ME3 the though of the reaper succeeding to get there influence in Shepard is "silly"?

You seem to be perenially making the same mistake; the fact that Shepard can be indoctrinated doesn't means actually mean he is being so. I can anticipate an answer along the lines of "but there's plenty of evidence that he is indoctrinated such as", but this isn't about evidence, there is about faulty logic.

I'm sorry. So, TIM controling Shepard in the end of ME3 with indoctrination is not a sign that Shepard is indoctrinated?

However this is not the effect of the Reaper indoctrination attempts since ME2 (or, if you believe some, ME1), but is reacting to TIM's actions only for that scene. IT, in its most popular form, states that he has had contact with Reapers for a long time therefore he is indoctrinated by the end.

But TIM can't just indoctrinate him instantly in that scene. Doing so, would make Shepard basically braindead. He's  not especially bright at the end, but he's certainly not braindead.

[jsadalia]

TIM doesn't indoctrinate Shepard. Indoctrination is mental control--"subtle whispers" in the mind. TIM controls Shepard's motor functions. This is not the same thing at all, although it clearly devolves from similar technology.

But it's not Indoctrination. If it was Shepard would be agreeing with TIM, not arguing with him. His mind is free.

[Slayer299]

Iecerint wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...
It will be interesting to see if BW takes the IT theory and runs with it since that was obviously not their plan to begin with. 

On the contrary -- we know with 100% certainty that some kind of indoctrination mechanic was their intention in the beginning.  The question is whether any of that idea survived in the current game.

If that was there intention...that's nice (although stupid for an ending). But when IT moves beyond with the word "theory", we can talk. Otherwise it's just that, a theory until proven one way or the other, irregardless of their intentions. 

[SubAstris]

KingZayd wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

[Shepard sacrificing his/her self to save trillions of lives seems like a perfectly acceptable ending to me.

And choosing Destroy was your decision. The consequences were made clear. There were two other choices for your Paragon Shepard.

1.How do you know that the star child is telling the truth?
2. How do you know what you see in the end is real?
3. How do you know if the reapers are not messing with your mind?

Have you yet to ask yourself these questions?

Are you really trying to give a baseless absolute on vague statements? How can you tale "vague" as literal?

I have asked those questions.  I don't believe in IT.  I think it's silly.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, however.

How is something established from ME1 an comfermed in ME2 as something the reapers want to do to Shepard, Silly?
Harbinger literaly guns after Shepard wanting to take control of Shepard in ME2. Yet in ME3 the though of the reaper succeeding to get there influence in Shepard is "silly"?

You seem to be perenially making the same mistake; the fact that Shepard can be indoctrinated doesn't means actually mean he is being so. I can anticipate an answer along the lines of "but there's plenty of evidence that he is indoctrinated such as", but this isn't about evidence, there is about faulty logic.

I'm sorry. So, TIM controling Shepard in the end of ME3 with indoctrination is not a sign that Shepard is indoctrinated?

However this is not the effect of the Reaper indoctrination attempts since ME2 (or, if you believe some, ME1), but is reacting to TIM's actions only for that scene. IT, in its most popular form, states that he has had contact with Reapers for a long time therefore he is indoctrinated by the end.

But TIM can't just indoctrinate him instantly in that scene. Doing so, would make Shepard basically braindead. He's  not especially bright at the end, but he's certainly not braindead.

Not it doesn't mean he would be braindead at all. How do you ascertain that?

[Lord Goose]

So, TIM controling Shepard in the end of ME3
with indoctrination is not a sign that Shepard is
indoctrinated?

It may not be indoctrination. It have different:

1. Activation. Its pretty much instant, since TIM controls Anderson in a few seconds.
2. Effect. Unlike real indoctrination, which is supposed to slowly change mind of victim, making it vulnerable to Reapers suggestions, it seems to be controlling body directly.
3. Purpose. Normal Indoctrination is created to control organic slaves of the Reapers. TIM's powers are supposed to control the Reapers.

It maybe similiar and share same origin, but its unlikely what it is the same indoctrination, which Reapers using.

[Vinny]

 OP, I'm sorry but I have bad news for you.  

http://sticktwiddler...shley-williams/

I think I'll download the DLC and then I'm done with Mass Effect.

[forthary]

Frankly, in short, I believe the game was rushed, they didn't have 'time' to make it right, so they did what they could. There are too many signs that the game would have had a proper ending should it have had more time. I feel pissed that I was sold a incomplete game. But if they manage to pull off whatever they're doing in the EC, I might just accept the game series and let it redeem itself.

[jsadalia]

Epök wrote...

 OP, I'm sorry but I have bad news for you.  

http://sticktwiddler...shley-williams/

I think I'll download the DLC and then I'm done with Mass Effect.

She confirms exactly what BioWare have said about EC. Surely no one's surprised by this?

[OchreJelly]

All I have to say about this is: The rising use of "Indoctrination Theory Theory" disturbs me.

Learn your acronyms, people. \\o/

[ed87]

Lets just hope they wont be smug and say they planned IT all along to troll people

[KevShep]

Lord Goose wrote...

So, TIM controling Shepard in the end of ME3
with indoctrination is not a sign that Shepard is
indoctrinated?

It may not be indoctrination. It have different:

1. Activation. Its pretty much instant, since TIM controls Anderson in a few seconds.
2. Effect. Unlike real indoctrination, which is supposed to slowly change mind of victim, making it vulnerable to Reapers suggestions, it seems to be controlling body directly.
3. Purpose. Normal Indoctrination is created to control organic slaves of the Reapers. TIM's powers are supposed to control the Reapers.

It maybe similiar and share same origin, but its unlikely what it is the same indoctrination, which Reapers using.

There is no way that TIM found a better way of indoctrination then millions of years old reapers and there FAR better tech.

[KevShep]

ed87 wrote...

Lets just hope they wont be smug and say they planned IT all along to troll people

What if they really did? Things like an over turned mako in the back ground of the "Breath scene" and the catalyst clearly points to something.

[BlackswordSteve]

It would seem kind of cheap to me if they went with IT and didn't have it planned before the release of the game. That would render all the subtle "clues" people were finding rather meaningless, wouldn't it? I don't really care one way or another how they implement the EC, just as long as its handled well. But if they went with IT at the last minute, it would kind of cheapen the experience for me.

[jsadalia]

KevShep wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

So, TIM controling Shepard in the end of ME3
with indoctrination is not a sign that Shepard is
indoctrinated?

It may not be indoctrination. It have different:

1. Activation. Its pretty much instant, since TIM controls Anderson in a few seconds.
2. Effect. Unlike real indoctrination, which is supposed to slowly change mind of victim, making it vulnerable to Reapers suggestions, it seems to be controlling body directly.
3. Purpose. Normal Indoctrination is created to control organic slaves of the Reapers. TIM's powers are supposed to control the Reapers.

It maybe similiar and share same origin, but its unlikely what it is the same indoctrination, which Reapers using.

There is no way that TIM found a better way of indoctrination then millions of years old reapers and there FAR better tech.

I don't see it as being better than reaper indoctrination. Controlling minds and creating willing servants is much more impressive and useful than having to consciously control your victim's body.

[SubAstris]

KevShep wrote...

ed87 wrote...

Lets just hope they wont be smug and say they planned IT all along to troll people

What if they really did? Things like an over turned mako in the back ground of the "Breath scene" and the catalyst clearly points to something.

I have checked that scene several times and there is no conclusive evidence of there being a Mako there at all

[Lord Goose]

There is no way that TIM found a better way of indoctrination then millions of years old reapers and there FAR better tech.

Its arguable if TIM's power is better than Indoctrination. On one hand it is relatively easy to use, since it subdued Anderson without much time and effort. On the other hand, it is possible to negate its effects if you threw user out of balance, like Renegade options for Shepard allow you. It also consists only of seemingly physical control, because Shepard and Anderson are both able to argue and disagree with TIM.

Also, it isn't likely that Reapers want to control other Reapers. It could explain, why they never built such devices.

[KevShep]

SubAstris wrote...

KevShep wrote...

ed87 wrote...

Lets just hope they wont be smug and say they planned IT all along to troll people

What if they really did? Things like an over turned mako in the back ground of the "Breath scene" and the catalyst clearly points to something.

I have checked that scene several times and there is no conclusive evidence of there being a Mako there at all

Someone has a zoomed in look at it with the color brighter and its a mako..however I dont have THAT pic but I do have a page that does have a smaller pic of the same thing....    http://parabolee.blo...eories-and.html      Look at the similarities in that and in the mako's we see.

[SubAstris]

KevShep wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

KevShep wrote...

ed87 wrote...

Lets just hope they wont be smug and say they planned IT all along to troll people

What if they really did? Things like an over turned mako in the back ground of the "Breath scene" and the catalyst clearly points to something.

I have checked that scene several times and there is no conclusive evidence of there being a Mako there at all

Someone has a zoomed in look at it with the color brighter and its a mako..however I dont have THAT pic but I do have a page that does have a smaller pic of the same thing....    http://parabolee.blo...eories-and.html      Look at the similarities in that and in the mako's we see.

Don't worry, I've seen it, and it is far from convincing that it's a Mako, that is all I'm saying. Also the fact that you have to change the image so much just to apparently see it should ring alarm bells. If BW wanted you to see it, it would have been made clear.

[KevShep]

SubAstris wrote...

KevShep wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

KevShep wrote...

ed87 wrote...

Lets just hope they wont be smug and say they planned IT all along to troll people

What if they really did? Things like an over turned mako in the back ground of the "Breath scene" and the catalyst clearly points to something.

I have checked that scene several times and there is no conclusive evidence of there being a Mako there at all

Someone has a zoomed in look at it with the color brighter and its a mako..however I dont have THAT pic but I do have a page that does have a smaller pic of the same thing....    http://parabolee.blo...eories-and.html      Look at the similarities in that and in the mako's we see.

Don't worry, I've seen it, and it is far from convincing that it's a Mako, that is all I'm saying. Also the fact that you have to change the image so much just to apparently see it should ring alarm bells. If BW wanted you to see it, it would have been made clear.

Who said it HAD to be made clear?

If you put a pick of a mako on its side and showing its underbelly its an EXACT match from the lightened pick from the breath scene!


Its a mako back there!

Modifié par KevShep, 16 juin 2012 - 12:04 .