194 réponses à ce sujet

[Gordo Schumway]

Permafrost27 wrote...

Tre.will wrote...

M4v3r1ck2 wrote...

@Gordo -- I normally would say to let it ride, but I like playing a melee character even on Gold, so I have to be close and personal with the enemy, as in I shake hands with phantoms, banshees, brutes, primes and pyros all the time. By the time I can get to the group in a map like Goddess or Jade, the Krysae snipers have finished them all off. So then it's scout the next spawn spot and run to it (even Adrenaline 3 doesn't get me there fast enough), and maybe get in one nice heavy melee only to have it killed by... the Krysae sniper. I'm not the only one saying this; many players I know express the same sense of frustration.

But, who cares?

Only elitist players care about things as redundant as personal score.  Every player get's the exact same amount of credits at the end of a match.  And XP is pointless.  If someone on my team has a Krysae Sniper Rifle and they're killing everything before I can get there; GREAT!  That means I have to do less work and it also means that I will have my credits all the more faster.  Why do players get so upset at someone using a certain gun when that certain gun is helping get the match over with faster?

If credit payout was based on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place, with 1st place getting the most, then I would understand and support the need of nerfed weapons.  But, as far as I'm concerned, there is NO need for weapon nerfing in a PvE game.  It makes no sense at all.

This is a pretty myopic perspective.

Because it makes the game easier, and the game is not pvp, imbalance is a non-issue?

I guess the reasoning is that people only play for maximum credit acquisition and/or being able to blow up npc bad guys with a few friends instead of alone?

The people that take the most pleasure in difficulty, challenge, and competitive balance are completely irrelevant in this worldview?

Good thing the game allows for private matches which allow for everybody to play exactly how they want to with the people and loadouts they want to play with. It is the people who are saying "nerf it" who are taking away choice by forcing players to use the gun that they think other people should/should not use.

Modifié par Gordo Schumway, 10 juin 2012 - 10:37 .

[Mac100]

Turn it into a heavy assault rifle, problem solved.

[Gordo Schumway]

Mac100 wrote...

Turn it into a heavy assault rifle, problem solved.

Except for those who want it the way it is.

Create a private match that allows you to control others and what they can/can't use. Now your problem is solved.

[JiceDuresh]

Gordo Schumway wrote...

So Michael Jordan should have been nerfed when he was at the top of his game?

Is this supposed to be a Strawman?  He was payed lots of money to be good *against* other teams.  If it was me vs other players and I was the only one allowed a Krysae, I wouldn't want it nerfed either. 

But as it stands currently if I want to have a game where I don't want to do a lot of work but still want credits and to top the scoreboard, I take the MQI with the Krysae, I only have to move to Rez someone else, and even then I wouldn't really need to cause I can just bash out the wave myself in a minute.

It's the same problem I have with GI with Black widows on bronze games, other people want to play too, if you're going to rock it up with the most broken class and a superior gun, might as well just solo.

Nova Guards who don't stand in the Hack circle and Nova Spam out of LOS of other players so three people just sand there for 2 minutes also apply.

[Permafrost27]

"Good thing the game allows for private matches which allow for everybody to play exactly how they want to with the people and loadouts they want to play with. It is the people who are saying "nerf it" who are taking away choice by forcing players to use the gun that they think other people should/should not use."

If I have to play private invite-friendly only matches to avoid the Krysae X lolfest, how am I not being "forced"? I'm losing significant amount of freedom and ease of play / time investment in that scenario.

I'm not forcing anyone to use anything, I'm asking than an easymode overpowered gun be slightly reduced in power. The falcon was nerfed previously, do you feel forced to never use it?

Modifié par Permafrost27, 10 juin 2012 - 10:44 .

[zenrockoutkast]

How about just ban it from anything below gold? It's pretty useful against waves of primes, but as others have stated it's damn boring playing silver with people who go around one-shotting things from across the map.

[IFR Deathcrush]

I think what the problem is is that we have on here a lot of the elite players of the game; ones who spend hours a day playing. Ones who know the cheap tactics (as they call them) such as op characters, op weapons, op gear. How do they know its op? Because they aren't the casual gamer that makes up the majority of players. These are the people who play for 60 hours a week saving credits so as soon as a new dlc comes out they instantly have everything at lvl X.

Now this special breed will spend two weeks using these weapons, making vids about how op they are and all the while gaining mass amounts of credits.

These people will then want everything nerfed, they had their fun, so nerf it before 90 percent of the community gets to use it. These are the people who complain about sucky players in silver and gold, yet scream to remove any weapon that may allow an average player to be a bit better.

So hopefully Bioware listens to everyone. Remove tactical cloak, nerf all the guns and powers til everything is relatively useless. Then we will have balance; no more complaining about op weapons.

[Gordo Schumway]

JiceDuresh wrote...

Gordo Schumway wrote...

So Michael Jordan should have been nerfed when he was at the top of his game?

Is this supposed to be a Strawman?  He was payed lots of money to be good *against* other teams.  If it was me vs other players and I was the only one allowed a Krysae, I wouldn't want it nerfed either. 

But as it stands currently if I want to have a game where I don't want to do a lot of work but still want credits and to top the scoreboard, I take the MQI with the Krysae, I only have to move to Rez someone else, and even then I wouldn't really need to cause I can just bash out the wave myself in a minute.

It's the same problem I have with GI with Black widows on bronze games, other people want to play too, if you're going to rock it up with the most broken class and a superior gun, might as well just solo.

Nova Guards who don't stand in the Hack circle and Nova Spam out of LOS of other players so three people just sand there for 2 minutes also apply.

Not a strawman at all. Jordan's teammates (like the teammates in a coop game) probably wouldn't have wanted Jordan "nerfed." Of course other teams would have. But then none of us play for the Reapers. People who are calling for a nerf don't seem to understand the idea of playing as a team and just want to score.

[Permafrost27]

zenrockoutkast wrote...

How about just ban it from anything below gold? It's pretty useful against waves of primes, but as others have stated it's damn boring playing silver with people who go around one-shotting things from across the map.

Honestly I think most "nerfers" would be fine with this, but I don't see them ever implenting that kind of fix, even if they could somehow code it.

[Gordo Schumway]

IFR Deathcrush wrote...

I think what the problem is is that we have on here a lot of the elite players of the game; ones who spend hours a day playing. Ones who know the cheap tactics (as they call them) such as op characters, op weapons, op gear. How do they know its op? Because they aren't the casual gamer that makes up the majority of players. These are the people who play for 60 hours a week saving credits so as soon as a new dlc comes out they instantly have everything at lvl X.

Now this special breed will spend two weeks using these weapons, making vids about how op they are and all the while gaining mass amounts of credits.

These people will then want everything nerfed, they had their fun, so nerf it before 90 percent of the community gets to use it. These are the people who complain about sucky players in silver and gold, yet scream to remove any weapon that may allow an average player to be a bit better.

So hopefully Bioware listens to everyone. Remove tactical cloak, nerf all the guns and powers til everything is relatively useless. Then we will have balance; no more complaining about op weapons.

This, you get it. Whenever I talk to someone in game who doesn't frequent the msg boards and mention that people are complaining about the gun being too overpowered, they either can't believe me or think that is the dumbest suggestion they have ever heard. Of course they aren't the elite who have level X anything and just play for fun.

[Asebstos]

All I think needs to be tweaked is the radius at which it proximity detonates and possibly  the radius of the AOE explosion. That would solve a lot of its OPness.

Modifié par Asebstos, 10 juin 2012 - 10:55 .

[JiceDuresh]

Gordo Schumway wrote...

Not a strawman at all. Jordan's teammates (like the teammates in a coop game) probably wouldn't have wanted Jordan "nerfed." Of course other teams would have. But then none of us play for the Reapers. People who are calling for a nerf don't seem to understand the idea of playing as a team and just want to score.

And people who think it's not broken don't seem to understand that playing as a team DOESN'T mean giving one guy the ability to do all the work at no aditional effort.  I'm advocating for a more of a team game than you are. If one gun and one class does everything then you don't actaully have to work as a team do you?  If you and a friend work together to take out a banshee, that's playing as a team, if I watch as someone takes out a banshee in three shots, that's being on the observation deck of someone's solo match.

[zenrockoutkast]

Gordo Schumway wrote...

IFR Deathcrush wrote...

I think what the problem is is that we have on here a lot of the elite players of the game; ones who spend hours a day playing. Ones who know the cheap tactics (as they call them) such as op characters, op weapons, op gear. How do they know its op? Because they aren't the casual gamer that makes up the majority of players. These are the people who play for 60 hours a week saving credits so as soon as a new dlc comes out they instantly have everything at lvl X.

Now this special breed will spend two weeks using these weapons, making vids about how op they are and all the while gaining mass amounts of credits.

These people will then want everything nerfed, they had their fun, so nerf it before 90 percent of the community gets to use it. These are the people who complain about sucky players in silver and gold, yet scream to remove any weapon that may allow an average player to be a bit better.

So hopefully Bioware listens to everyone. Remove tactical cloak, nerf all the guns and powers til everything is relatively useless. Then we will have balance; no more complaining about op weapons.

This, you get it. Whenever I talk to someone in game who doesn't frequent the msg boards and mention that people are complaining about the gun being too overpowered, they either can't believe me or think that is the dumbest suggestion they have ever heard. Of course they aren't the elite who have level X anything and just play for fun.

Yeah, I get that.  I'm really more complaining that there are so many players in silver who just go into overkill with using these guns when it's not that hard in the first place.  That, and they seem to have a compulsion to kill every enemy that's right in front of me whether I have it handled or not.

[Arcadia2012]

This weapon should definitively be left in its original state, there is no need whatsoever to nerf it.

[BobWalt]

InfamousResult wrote...

BobWalt wrote...

I don't know, it already does not get the headshot bonus and really can only one shot low level enemies and then not always. I think it is over rated because the explosion on the screen is much more impressive than the actual damage. I wish I had a BW to compare it to but I don't. If anything I really should have been an N7 ultra rare rather than gold.

You're only looking at the gun as a shoot-one-enemy-at-a-time kind of thing; the fact is that it can kill GROUPS of enemies faster than other guns, although other guns can kill a single enemy faster than the Krysae. But in a game where enemies spawn from predictable areas and are often bottle-necked together, a gun that staggers them and deals considerable AoE damage, even over long distances, it's very easy to rack up the kills.

And how many shots does it take to kill a group of enemies?  How many of those enemies were not actually being damaged by other squad mates? It makes a big boom but I really do not think it is over powered.  It is not like you can hit a group of three Cannibals and kill them all with one shot.  BTW - you can kill 3 Cannibals with one shot using a Javelin.

[capn233]

Gordo Schumway wrote...

Not a strawman at all. Jordan's teammates (like the teammates in a coop game) probably wouldn't have wanted Jordan "nerfed." Of course other teams would have. But then none of us play for the Reapers. People who are calling for a nerf don't seem to understand the idea of playing as a team and just want to score.

This is an imprecise analogy.  Nobody is asking for a nerf to player skill.

We want variety of characters and weapons.  That is why we want balance.  So there isn't something that is so much better there isn't a reason to use anything else.

[Gordo Schumway]

Permafrost27 wrote...


"Good thing the game allows for private matches which allow for everybody to play exactly how they want to with the people and loadouts they want to play with. It is the people who are saying "nerf it" who are taking away choice by forcing players to use the gun that they think other people should/should not use."

If I have to play private invite-friendly only matches to avoid the Krysae X lolfest, how am I not being "forced"? I'm losing significant amount of freedom and ease of play / time investment in that scenario.

I'm not forcing anyone to use anything, I'm asking than an easymode overpowered gun be slightly reduced in power. The falcon was nerfed previously, do you feel forced to never use it?

I don't know. I never use it. I suck with it. Probably becasue it was nerfed into oblivion according to the posters on this site. Good job of nerfing there. I don't think pointing at the falcon is a good example for the pro-nerf side. If you want eas of play and less time investment, use the Krysae. And lets be honest, most anybody who is on this site probably has a whole slew of gaming friends they can play with at any time.

[IFR Deathcrush]

Thanks Gordo. I mean I understand where these guys are coming from. In their hands it is op. But that's a huge minority of players. I think I play too much as is, a couple hours a day for two and a half months now. I am no where near having a complete manifest. It's amazing to me that anyone has every new thing at X already!

This game is about having fun, getting credits and team work; for 90% of the players. For some, the fun comes in speed runs. And which characters and weapons are used in speed runs? OP ones. 77k credits every ten minutes is awesome, but only if youre the elite.

Balance is a good thing. But when considering balance, we have to look at the majority of players, the ones who don't have a gagillion credits to max everything out, the ones who aren't god incarnate of the game. Nerfing weapons and gear and powers to the liking of the elite isn't balance at all.

Unfortunately it seems most here think the average Joe playing this game is a god.

[Gordo Schumway]

capn233 wrote...

Gordo Schumway wrote...

Not a strawman at all. Jordan's teammates (like the teammates in a coop game) probably wouldn't have wanted Jordan "nerfed." Of course other teams would have. But then none of us play for the Reapers. People who are calling for a nerf don't seem to understand the idea of playing as a team and just want to score.

This is an imprecise analogy.  Nobody is asking for a nerf to player skill.

We want variety of characters and weapons.  That is why we want balance.  So there isn't something that is so much better there isn't a reason to use anything else.

Until the lobbies are full of snipers with Krysae way more than anything else, I don't really see a problem. I haven't seen that yet and honestly doubt I will. First BW should fix the problems that exist today--like every random gold I try to find being Geth white. When a problem arises, then fix it.

[Permafrost27]

Gordo Schumway wrote...

Permafrost27 wrote...


"Good thing the game allows for private matches which allow for everybody to play exactly how they want to with the people and loadouts they want to play with. It is the people who are saying "nerf it" who are taking away choice by forcing players to use the gun that they think other people should/should not use."

If I have to play private invite-friendly only matches to avoid the Krysae X lolfest, how am I not being "forced"? I'm losing significant amount of freedom and ease of play / time investment in that scenario.

I'm not forcing anyone to use anything, I'm asking than an easymode overpowered gun be slightly reduced in power. The falcon was nerfed previously, do you feel forced to never use it?

I don't know. I never use it. I suck with it. Probably becasue it was nerfed into oblivion according to the posters on this site. Good job of nerfing there. I don't think pointing at the falcon is a good example for the pro-nerf side. If you want eas of play and less time investment, use the Krysae. And lets be honest, most anybody who is on this site probably has a whole slew of gaming friends they can play with at any time.

The falcon is an excellent example for comparison, regardless of "side".

Overall, it is the most similar weapon in the game. They function almost identically, with the exception that the falcon does about 2/3 the damage, the projectile nature is obviously a bit more bouncey and less rockety (technical term), and of course is assault vs sniper. Otherwise, clip size, RoF, weight, and area effect dmg are all very similar.

Falcon X is very useable but not dominant in Gold, it only becomes obviously powerful when combined with Disrupter or Cryo ammo (for group CC).

Any weapon that requires little to no effort to aim should inherently do less damage than it's cousins, unless we are talking UR. If the Krysae was an UR, it would be much less of an issue. 

[IFR Deathcrush]

I see what you're saying Zenrockoutcast. That my friend, is frustrating. But that's the epeen factor that no one can get rid of. Happened to me yesterday in a silver game. A kraysae X sniper kept killing my melee targets. Ah well, I figure it was a teenager with issues and moved on to another lobby. Personally I have only a lvl I and I used it solely on my qme. At lvl I, I come normally in 2nd or 3rd playing good support. No one complains about that!

[Rodrrigoww]

BoomDynamite wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Ask BoomDynamite for his weapon balance thread.

Yep.

Either that or disallow it being effected by Rank 6 TC where Snipers do 40% more DMG.

Sorry but this doesn't make any sense , it is a sniper rifle , should stay as a sniper rifle and thus should be affected by it.
Possible solutions are reducing it's damage or reducing the clip size from 3 to 1.
Splash damage is already short and that isn't what makes it op it just adds to it , wouldn't solve the problem at all.
Then again , if all that's to happen they better nerf the geth , krysae is no where near op as their guns , Primes drop 2 turrets , their shots have a much wider splash  , Pyros and Hunters are Snipers , Rocket with SMG fire rate and so on.

[Gordo Schumway]

IFR Deathcrush wrote...

Thanks Gordo. I mean I understand where these guys are coming from. In their hands it is op. But that's a huge minority of players. I think I play too much as is, a couple hours a day for two and a half months now. I am no where near having a complete manifest. It's amazing to me that anyone has every new thing at X already!

This game is about having fun, getting credits and team work; for 90% of the players. For some, the fun comes in speed runs. And which characters and weapons are used in speed runs? OP ones. 77k credits every ten minutes is awesome, but only if youre the elite.

Balance is a good thing. But when considering balance, we have to look at the majority of players, the ones who don't have a gagillion credits to max everything out, the ones who aren't god incarnate of the game. Nerfing weapons and gear and powers to the liking of the elite isn't balance at all.

Unfortunately it seems most here think the average Joe playing this game is a god.

And then they still have the gall to come on these forums and complain that every random lobby is full of horrible players or make fun of something stupid some teammate does. Here is an idea--let the dumb guys with no aim carry big guns.

[zenrockoutkast]

IFR Deathcrush wrote...

I see what you're saying Zenrockoutcast. That my friend, is frustrating. But that's the epeen factor that no one can get rid of. Happened to me yesterday in a silver game. A kraysae X sniper kept killing my melee targets. Ah well, I figure it was a teenager with issues and moved on to another lobby. Personally I have only a lvl I and I used it solely on my qme. At lvl I, I come normally in 2nd or 3rd playing good support. No one complains about that!

I think they're mostly score obsessed players.  I don't care that much about score, I just like to actually kill the enemies I'm fighting.  It's not like it's limited to the Krysae, either.  I had one match where two players went around with Sabers and cryo rounds and fragged everything in sight (silver, mind you), and another where someone figured out that my heavy melee ALMOST kills most non-scrub enemies so they followed me around the entire match cleaning up all of my kills.  It's not all that bad with most characters, but when I'm a vorcha or krogan it really starts to get on my nerves.

But yeah, you're right, it's not all that bad.  You try to avoid them, you finish out the match, and you find a different group after.  I just have to vent about it sometimes.

[Ravenmyste]

nicethugbert wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Leave it alone. Perfect.

No.

Tac Cloak has to go.  It's just unfair to other players to have to take someone elses aggro.  It's like training.

lol nice try  tac cloak dont need a nerf, if anything the rifle needs a nerf big time and i have to agree its really to powerful and i have it  at level 1 and takes down enemies in 2 shots if  they dont have shields, if they have  shields 5  shots with banshee 12 shots  so it really does needa nerf, if the tac cloak is increasing its damage like it should then the power needs to lowered on the gun not the tac cloak as for the argo issue the tac cloak doesn't  do any thing as you said  it creates no argo for a reason they cant see you when your to far away and when a mobs is near you it will come after you because youre the closest thing to it and it will come after you like it supposed to

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 10 juin 2012 - 11:32 .